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DarkBASIC Discussion / Best way to... *sigh* long story...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 01:45
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Hey, since the majority of the people wouldn't post in my other forum post thingie, I decided to ask you a more specific question:

What do you think would be the best and easiest way to show which object limb is active in a 3d object maker/animator/modifier/etc... application for DB? I've already designated an image for the active object, but putting an image that points to a limb tends to be hidden, or at the least clipped by other limbs. (The active object image is placed at 20 plus the objects height) Putting it out to the side poses some problems too, but I thought I'd get some input from the world before I did any grand programming for something like that.

Also, @JessTicular: I've almost got enough done for you to beta test. Possibly by the end of the week. Ready?

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zzabb
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 04:03
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well i didn't post because i'm not sure what info you are seeking???

the best way would be to color the object differently than the rest of the model

but that won't work if you will be texturing the object?
you may want to try some sort of color inversion? not sure how you would do it but???

My advice is free -
unfortunately you get what you pay for (-:
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PoHa!84
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 04:26
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Yeah, I think you understood. And yes, limb texturing will cause a problem with the color idea, and I wouldn't know of a way to do a color inversion. My other forum isn't specific because I want a more general input. My other forum is basicly seeking answers to "What do you want this program to do for you?", so I can work on implementing them.
Thanks for the idea though. I might tinker with it some...

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JoelJ
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 07:41
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try to figure out how to invert the colors, that would be the best. or color all the verticies or something like that, i dono.

Quote: "What do you want this program to do for you?"

what exactly can it do already? how far done are you?

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Jess T
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 07:53
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Hmm, if you highlight each edge (not surface) of the limb, that would make it stand out alot and very easy to tell if its selected or not...

Not too sure how to do it though...

And, YES, I'm READY! Bring it on...

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Jess T
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 11:36
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You could also do what Darwin suggested, highlight the verticies...

To do that, you could place little sphere's on each vertice, which would be unclickable and would stay there untill the limb isnt selected... and then you could change the sphere's to squares when resizing the object or something like that?

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 21:40
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@ Darwin: Maybe I don't understand you correctly, but how would one go about doing that?

Hmm... maybe a screenshot would help... but it can already do the follow:

Resize object, Rotate object, texture object, insert object (cone, cylinder, sphere, box, plain, and from file(.x or .3ds format)), scale xyz, scale specificly x, y, and z via the mouse, play the objects animation, switch which object is active, goto the first, last, or specific frame, and save as .3dject(created extension, not totally complete as the program isn't complete).

It also shows you the current active object's number, the current frame number, the total frames, and the total limbs of the active object at all times.

Already planned are:

Wireframe, ghost, sensitivity to light, fog, and ambient light, transparency (any place where the texture is black on the object will disappear), glue object to object limb, make the object static, color object, and the ever popular undo and repeat (but those are borderline, as they will be difficult to code the way I want into what I already have)

@ JessTicular: Excellent! Though, you know that that was a rough estimate. If you don't get it by Friday, then you won't get it until Monday or later, depending on how far I got...

Also, how would I do what you suggested. It sounds interesting, but I wouldn't even be close to knowing how to put cubes or spheres at any certain vertice of an object. Unless I... uh... nope! I don't know...

Also! Kirby rules all!

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 02:35
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Well, I WAS gonna give a screenshot, but I can't get it to work right...

Anyways, I'm beginning to realize something:
Nobody cares! Well, JessTicular does, but it might just be pity. Anyways everyone already has their own 3d modeling program, or several, and they can do everything that they want and more with those, so no one would find use in my program, which would be slightly more difficult to use than their real simple and easy to use programs (Not that my wasn't simple and easy too...). What I guess I'm trying to say is what many of you probably knew would happen. I am cancelling the project. As of right now, it is cancelled. If I get enough posts to convince me otherwise, then I might uncancel, but that is unlikely, due to the feedback that I've been getting.

@ JessTicular: Sorry, man. If you still want to try out what's there, I'll send the source code to you in a zip, with all the graphics that I made for it. That way, (if you wanted to, I don't care as of now) you could finish it some time, as you seemed interested in this program for some reason. There's still plenty wrong with it, and there's lot's of coding in it that isn't used (unused functions, etc...) but maybe you could figure it out.

Are you guys happy? You crushed my dreams and grinded them into little pieces of miniscule microbits, then you put salt on them and threw them out the window at that poor woman who walks by each day. You should be ashamed of yourselves!

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Jess T
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 07:20 Edited at: 8th Oct 2003 07:21
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YAY! Kirby is the best...!

But, trashing on the project isnt good man, but if you really are gonna quit, then send me the source and i might one day have enough know-how to get it up and running the way you intended...

Untill then, i guess the project has gone down the sh*ter...

Oh well...

[EDIT] Here's my e-mail: [email protected]

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 07:32 Edited at: 8th Oct 2003 07:38
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Actually, JessTicular, IF I can get enough responses, then I won't trash it, which I really don't want to, it's just that... no one seems to want it, or would use it. I'm still borderline for cancelling....
Also, I've looked at some of the other modelling programs, and they all look fairly complex compared with mine. Of course, mine is fair simpler and only works with DB, but... still.
(P.S.: How can I get a screenshot up?)

Edit: WAS it pity JessTicular, or were you genuinely interested?

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Jess T
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 07:45
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well, there was a factor of pity involved... Just Joking...

I truly am interested, just the fact that your making a program in DB that creates 3D models etc and is simple got me interested (And besides, my name is gonna be in the credits )

to get a screen shot, you need to have a website then you upload the pic to your site and provide a link to it throught the "image" button when you post your mesage...

If you dont have a site, i can host the file for you...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 19:23 Edited at: 8th Oct 2003 19:27
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Alright I have the images. I hope this works:

This image shows the basic interface that has been implemented, along with the alien from the DB contest that was loaded with the From File... command found in the Insert menu... (fps=frames/sec.)



This image shows the rotation of the alien, which is currently done with the arrow keys and the "<" and ">" keys:



This image shows off the ability to scale, handled by the mouse, which, unfortunately, you can't see...



And this image shows that the menu buttons really do work. All of those items in the menu are currently working with no glitches as I have found, (with the exception of color)...




Maybe NOW I can get some feedback!

@ JessTicular: Err, created 3d models? Did I tell you that? The whole vertices manipulation and such won't be available, but you can import pre-made 3d objects of, say, a torso, then import the limbs and attach them as limbs, then texture them, scale them, rotate them, whatever... But as far as 3d SCULPTING, (if that is what you meant) then no. It doesn't do that, exactly.

ARRRGH! It doesn't work for me!
well, you can just try this:

http://www.angelfire.com/crazy2/yoda0

Then just click on the hyperlinks there.
What'd I do wrong?

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Jess T
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 20:23
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Um, no, i didnt expect it to be a sculptor... there arent enough commands in DarkBasic to cater for that...

Hmmm, with the images links... sometimes, you need to refresh the page b4 they work

Oh well...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 21:04 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 00:58
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Hmm. Strange. Can anyone see the images? or do you have to click on the link?

@ Everyone: Please give me some input. Does it look good? Should I continue my work, or trash it? I know people are looking at this post, because it's got like 81 views, but no one is really posting. I'm taking that as a "This looks stupid, I don't want to hurt his feelings though, so I won't post..."

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Jess T
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 21:08
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DAMN IT!

Dont stop working on it or ill have to jump on a plane and fly to wherever it is that you are and hit you in the stomach very, very hard..

But seriously... Wait a little while, a few people might only check the forums once a week and these people might be the people who have been looking for a program like this since they started using DB...

If that made sense to you... You're doing better than i am...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 01:02 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 02:30
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Alight, after cruising the posts, I've decided to continue my work on the project. I still need ideas on the best way to show which limb is the active one. (i.e. which one you will texture with the texture command, rotate, scale, etc...) I've tried lights. It sucked. I tried a little sign to show, but it always gets clipped by the object. Please post...

Edit: @ JessTicular: Err... don't cross your fingers for friday. A full day of wondering if I should continue working on the project or not was a big set-back. Oh, why did I ever doubt it's usefulness?

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Jess T
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 11:02 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 11:28
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A crude way of showing the current object that you could use untill you find a better way could be to create a ghosted sphere and place it at the centre of the current limb, so you can see the limb still and can see the sphere which shows the user which limb is active...

Here's a screeny of what im talking about...
http://scorpius.spaceports.com/~prozack/images/screeny.PNG


Here's the code i used to make that example:


The Sphere would be sized relative to the limb (cos you dont want a tiny sphere for a huge limb and visa-versa)
And it would be positioned at the centre of the limb...

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Jess T
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 11:06
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Hmm, the image doesnt seem to wanna work... That IS the correct link... try copying the address and pasting it into to address bar and then hit enter, that should work (works for me)...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 17:31
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Interesting idea JessTicular. I may try it... my concern with that idea is that you couldn't see the limb's proper color and such when the sphere is displayed, but maybe I can tinker with it a little...

Any other suggestions are still welcome!

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 19:11
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Hey JessTicular: I tried your idea. It doesn't seem to work in my program. I don't think it's the sphere, I think there's something wrong with the active limb controls that I have, because I couldn't switch which limb was active either. (I hadn't tried to switch until today...) anyways, um... keep the ideas coming!

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JoelJ
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 19:46 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 19:48
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how about you put a...lined box type of thing.
__...__
|.........|
..obj..
|_....._|
like in 3dS max.

*edit*
ignore the dots. pretend they arnt there
keep up the project. it looks good!

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demons breath
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 20:04
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do a sort of wireframe box around it, like in Gmax.

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 22:23
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Thanks Darwin and demonsbreath! I'm not familiar with either 3ds max or Gmax, but I think I know what you guys are trying to say. That might very well be the best way to go. Your names may make it into the credits yet!

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 02:41
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Hmm... Hey Darwin and demonsbreath: Uh... I've implemented your idea, but it may be replaced if I can't figure out how to fix one little problem. At certain times, you can't see the box, because it's to small. I could make it bigger, but then it would be hard to distinguish what it's highlighting on the smaller limbs. I'm working on it, but thus far, I haven't found a way to fix the problem. If there was a command like LIMB SIZE X(), etc...then I would probably be able to fix it. But there's no command like that, or anything comparable is there?
Please respond anyone....

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JoelJ
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 03:44 Edited at: 10th Oct 2003 03:44
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GMax and 3D studio are the same, GMax is just not as...big. and thats what i said to do, wireframe. i just couldnt think of what to call it

oh, and if you happen to need more beta testers, i could help

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 03:45
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So, you wouldn't know how to fix the problem then, huh?

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 19:15
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Darwin: Sorry, didn't see the last part of your post... If you want to be a beta tester, then I need an e-mail address.

Also, note JessTicular and Coder: Um... no beta by today (Friday). I got stuck on a few things that I didn't think would be as hard to do, and that day of wondering if I should continue or not pushed me back some. I'm shooting for sometime next week. Maybe Wednesday? Dunno...

To all: Still looking for the best way to show which limb is the active one! (i.e. when you tell the program to rotate limb, scale limb, texture limb,...etc... then it will do those things to the active one) The wireframe box thing works, sorta, but you can't see it if some of the limbs are larger than the box, and it would be too big for the smaller limbs if I just made it bigger. Any suggestions?

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Jess T
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 20:10
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Hmm, what you are trying to do, in relation to highlighting the current limb, is almost imposible (as far as i can see) because of what you yourself said:

Quote: "If there was a command like LIMB SIZE X(), etc...then I would probably be able to fix it. But there's no command like that"


So, mabey you could write a function or something which finds the Limb size by using a mixture of the other Limb commands?

Ive had a look through the help files to see if i could have a stab at it, but i failed quite miserably... so i just scraped it and decided to post the idea here instead Haha...

Oh well... Keep at it...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 20:52
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I looked to, JessTicular. I couldn't find any way to fix it. Any other suggestions from anyone?

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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 21:16 Edited at: 10th Oct 2003 21:19
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Alrighty...

I was thinking... mabey, just mabey... i dont know if you want to, but it seems like your a one man team, PoHa!84, and im a one man team, so i was wondering... you dont have to you realize, there is no pressure on you at all... but, i was thinking, mabey, just mabey, we could, um...
TEAM UP!
YaY!

Just a thought, cos then we could use your modeling thingy program which is currently in development in my game, which is also currently in development, and seen as we seem to be solving each other's problems, then we could work together? eh? eh? eh?

Any way... Im sleepy...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 21:44
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Hmm... interesting... interesting... well, you do know that this program will be open to everyone once my testers are done with it, then everyone will be able to use it. (I think you knew that. It might have been that you were so sleepy that you typed something that made sense to you, it sounds strange to me):

Quote: "cos then we could use your modeling thingy program which is currently in development in my game"


So really, you could use my program whether I teamed with you or not. But I suppose you want an answer right? So to keep you waiting, I've written a bunch of stuff before my answer. (heh... I can be sadistic some times...)

Regardless of my answer, JessTicular, you must realize that you have been there for me through thick and thin, through my time of almost trashing the program, and helped me to realize it's great potential, and I am very appreciative of that.

Before I answer, I have a question: Um... Are we going to both be working on your program? Because mine is almost done, and really doesn't need more than one person to code on it. Really, right now, I just need to make it such that you can set wireframe, transparency, etc... on and off, and the ability to save to a specific keyframe seems to be screwy.

Another question: What is your program?

And another: What time zone are you in? It seems like right whenever I'm getting off my computer, you appear in the forums. Maybe you work late, or maybe... err... the reason I ask is, this could be a potential problem for our communications, no?

And ladies and gentleman, it's time for the moment you've all been waiting for. May I have the ballot please...

And PoHa!84's answer to JessTicular's question is:



Well... that was a weird post, I think...

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Jess T
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Posted: 11th Oct 2003 09:55 Edited at: 11th Oct 2003 11:02
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Damn... i guess thats a "no" then eh?

hahahah, just joking... i love the way you set that up... very suspending...

Um, with your program, i meant, that we could use it in the game that i am making, the WE would be making... i know that every1 will be able to use it, but still... Every1 can use Matedit and it isnt stopping them from using it in their games...

and the reason i suggested the team up, is because my game is still in the very early stages and you are just about nearing finishing your program which would mean that you need to take up another challenge in the realms of the ever mysterious DarkBASIC... Boom, Boom, Boom... (pretty pathetic sound effects, but you get the idea...) and that new project could be a team effort at a game.

And to answer "What is your program?"

Well (here we go)...

Title:
HellBorn: Wounded Prey

Story:
A Warrior with amnesia wakes up in a weird hut, clutching a stone to his heart...
There is a staff/sword/battle axe next to his bed which he recognises and brings back horrible flash-backs...
A woman comes in to the room he is in (which he now realises is a bare hut) and feeds him some stuff...
She starts to explain why he is there but all of a sudden, creatures of the night attack the hut and it burns, luckly he manages to escape though the woman doesnt... she burns...
He has memories of the creatures that attacked the hut, he has flash backs of how they are evil etc...
He remembers making a Vow to destroy them all.

The stone... It is a special way to unlocking his secrets (memories) which he now realises have been taken from him on purpose...

But, alas, the creatures stole the stone and smashed it (he doesnt find this out untill later, by talkig to sum1)
He needs to find the pieces of the stone and reunite each fragment to recover his lost memories, but guarding each piece of the stone is a hideouse monster who's powers far surpass that of the warrior's so he has to gain skill by killing other monsters and he slowly remmebers how to use his staff/sword/battle axe...
In the end, he has to go to a special temple (which is in the depths of hell itself) to find the last piece of the stone...
And here he reunites the fragments of the stone and all is revealed...

Boom Boom Booooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmm (again with the pathetic sound effects)

Anyway, that is the story line i have so far...

And here is the game i have so far:

http://scorpius.spaceports.com/~prozack/HellBorn%20Wounded%20Prey.zip

This is open source... Anyone reading this post can freely take this code and do what they will with it, hopefully learning some things along the way. I only ask that you DO NOT use my image files seen as i made them myself and am very proud of them... But everything else is yours for the taking...

[EDIT] The file didnt work properly, but its all good now, and this was made using DarkBASIC Classic v1.13 Enhanced [/EDIT]

Ok, now that ive explained what my game hopefully will be about, and now that you've seen what stage my game currently is at... On to the next question!

Timezone... im on Eastern Standard Time (EST) I'm in Australia.. The time of posting this message was just b4 4pm on the 11th...
I agree that communication could be a problem, but we are all used to workarounds now (from working with DB ) so we'll be ok...

Hope I um... Explained? Yeah... explained...

Hope I Explained...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 05:28
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Heh... actually, you probably explained a little much... all I was actually wondering is what genre or type of game it was. (You know, RPG, adventure, puzzle, etc...) I didn't mean for you to give out the details of your game, dude. Oh well.

So I assume that no one has thought of a good way to show which limb is active in a 3d manipulation program, huh? (That was the original reason for this post, to all who couldn't figure it out). Hmm... well, unless anyone can suggest anything else that works better than the wireframe box, (which actually doesn't work too well...) then Darwin and Demonsbreath will be in the credits.

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Jess T
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 06:35
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Hahah, sorry... But my program is open source...
The game will be open source also (if that's ok with you)...

And the genre is the same as the post where i wanted to know about the intro...

Its RPG, rather like D2 (Diablo 2) and NeverWinter Nights (but different...)

PS if anyone else wants to join, just ask, and if its ok with BOTH me and PoHa!84 then, you're in...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 06:46
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Heh... wow! Just joined and already have 50% say in what happens...

But seriously. I'm still searching for a good way to show which limb is active in my program. 210+ views and many less posts does not bode well... or somesuch...

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Jess T
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 06:53
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Hmm, about that (the limb highlight problem)...

You need a function or such that finds the size of the limb so you can set the size of your wreframe box...

That is the only real soloution that i can see since DBC lacks the Limb Size comands...

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elVee
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 06:53
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JessTicular, the camera in you game is a little weird... It seemed too high, IMO it should be closer to the ground so you can see more. Other than that, looks like what you have done is very well done I wanna see what its like when its done
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PoHa!84
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 06:56
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JessTicular: See, that's the problem. I haven't been able to figure out how to. If I could, then my problem would be solved. Any one have any ideas?

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Jess T
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 14:06
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I had an idea, not too sure if it'll work...

Can you copy the limb that is being selected and then turn that into a wireframe (that is slightly bigger than the selected Limb so as to see the wireframe)

Or, you could create a new object from the mesh of the current object and then edit the mesh so that the selected limb is slightly bigger than the actual limb of the object and then show the object wiht wireframe...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 19:15
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*bump*

It sounds err... sound, JessTicular, but I've not the time to try it right now. This is basicly just a bump post...

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JoelJ
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 19:24
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heh, hey guys. if you still want me to be tester still my email is [email protected].

hey, dont know if this has been posted but, couldnt you make it so when you select the limb, it makes it wireframe?

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 19:37 Edited at: 14th Oct 2003 00:14
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You mean, makes the actual limb wireframe? WOW! Man! that has got to be one of the best and most obvious ideas I've heard! Sounds good, Darwin. I'll try it, later, after my classes are over...

[Edit] Um... alright, I've got 4 testers. That should be enough, I think? They are: JessTicular, Coder, Underlord, and Darwin. [End edit]

[Edit2... cause I forgot...] Jessticular: I played what you have done of the game. Very good, but I agree with um... who ever it was that posted and said the camera was too high. Everything else was good for a start, I think...[end edit2]

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 01:13
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Tee-Hee... I figured out why no one else suggested your idea, Darwin. Why not give me the syntax for making a specific limb to be wireframe mode, and I'll tell you why I'm not going to use it?

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Jess T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 11:26
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Hahahah, i like your style PoHa!84, very smooth...

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Jess T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 11:32
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@elVee:

Thanks for the comments,
Quote: " looks like what you have done is very well done I wanna see what its like when its done "

I honestly was expecting more comments along the lines of "Oh god, not again, that sucks mate, give up now and save what little respect for yourself you still have"... I'll fix up the camera and upload a new version at the same location

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Jess T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 12:44
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Ok, camera fixed, i decided not to upload the file again, but instead of you having to download it again, i figured you could just change what needs to be changed yourself...

ok, in the folder "functions", in the file "initialize_world.dba" change;



To;



in the folder "functions", in the file "camera.dba" change;



To;



Thanks again for the comments...

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JoelJ
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 22:19
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@PoHa!84, thats exactly why i didnt suggest that earlier. im rather new to DB and i dont know EXACTLY what DB can and cant do. but i suggested it anyways, seeing if someone could pull it off

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 22:54
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Alright, alright. Actually, I suppose I could do it, but it would require loading the same object twice, positioning it at exactly the same spot as the original object, setting it to wireframe mode, and then hiding the active limb. But that could cause a whole bunch of little bugs and glitches in the process, and I have enough as is.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 23:38
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so, what are you going to do?

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 23:55 Edited at: 17th Oct 2003 00:00
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Right now it's still a wireframe box. Not what I as good as I was hoping for, but the best I've got right now.

[edit] Yeah! My first ever red post! [end edit]

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