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DarkBASIC Discussion / Intro Scene... How to?

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Jess T
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 20:48
Ok, here's my situation:

I am creating a game, much like Diablo and NeverWinter Nights etc...
At the beggining of the game, before anything else happens... I wish to create an opening movie sequence much like those in Diablo II (but with much less quality graphics of course).

But, here is my dilema:

I dont know how to go about it...
I have two ideas at the moment...
1) i can load everything into DarkBASIC and use it to create the sequence (ie. code it, using preset character movement and way-points for the camera etc.)...
or, 2) I can create all the models etc in an external program (3D Canvas Pro) and animate them all and create a *.AVI file and then just play that movie at the start of my Game...

Any Suggestions?

Thanks For Your Help

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 21:29
The easiest would probably be a .AVI, but the other might look cooler, depending on some things. It's all a matter of opinion, really, but a .AVI would take up less space, wouldn't it?

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Jess T
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 21:34
Hmmm, yeah, your right... And i guess i have to animate all of my .x objects anyway so instead of wasting my time codeing it all, i can just put it into the avi

Thanks for your inspiration (whatever that means)...

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BatVink
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 23:15 Edited at: 8th Oct 2003 23:16
Quote: "but a .AVI would take up less space, wouldn't it?"


Absolutely not!

Let's say you had an 800 x 600 AVI, 12 frames per second, 16 bit color. You could potentially use compression of 90%. This will give you a slow, low resolution, undersized video. That will cost you about 144K per second of video. A 60 second clip comes in at 8.6 megabytes.

Your average mpeg is somewhat larger than this. Hopefully you can see why an AVI would blow your sequence out of all proportion.

For a sequenced on-the-fly animation, you already have all your models, the only overhead is the coding. However, you also need some good interactive animation skills.

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 00:44
Err, okay. I guess you just killed my post. I've never even touched the .AVI in DB, so I really wouldn't know. It just seemed more likely that a movie file would take less space than every one of those extra 3d models, textures to go with them, the building models, and the extra programming (on a lesser scale, of course...)

Oh well. My streak of making myself look stupid continues...

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John H
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 03:42
For the opening scene of ED we're making the character animtions that will be needed externally, but coding it all together in DB.

RPGamer

Current Project: Eternal Destiny
We need a texture artist!
If your interested email me - [email protected]
Jess T
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 11:17
Ok, but, the way i see it... i believe that what PoHa!84 suggested is the best way to go about it (The only problem i can see with that is the easy of copying the avi by others)...

Um, if i coded it... i would be looking at creating set way points and having to load in all the objects which i have to animate exteranlly anyway, so i think if i just keep all my models together in the one 3D Canvas file (i cant remember the extension) and then animate it all and save it as an AVI, it would be easier for me (a one man team on a mission)

Oh, and also, if i did code it, i would have to overcome my problem with the animations all being out by about 100 world units (this is all posted in the thread "3D Canvas Pro and DBClassic issues")

Thanks for all your input guys (and gals) but im gonna go with the AVI...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 17:37
Ha! I WIN!

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Jess T
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 07:26
lol

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BatVink
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 11:02
Quote: "Oh well. My streak of making myself look stupid continues..."


Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you look stupid

AVIs will blow the size of your game up immensly, but the alternative is much harder to achieve.

What I haven't tried, and don't know is this...maybe it's possible to do a full animation sequence in a 3D graphics app, play it in DB, and get something half way between the two solutions. Smaller than an AVI, but easier than animating in DB.

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Jess T
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 16:53
Hmm, interesting idea there BatVink... I guess i could just put my entire scene together into a single .x object and then animate it all and then just play it through DB...

Very interesting...

When i get to that stage, ill resurect this thread and tell you how i went

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 17:28
That does seem like a good idea Batvink. And you don't have to apoligize. I said that cause it seems like I'm always giving the wrong answers to people and have to be correctly (or am asking stupid questions) lately. Entirely not your fault.

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BatVink
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Posted: 11th Oct 2003 01:05 Edited at: 11th Oct 2003 01:07
PoHa!84: I think more answers is good, even if they are not entirely correct. It gives you food for thought and encourages others to respond with improved ideas.

Further to my idea...I'm sure other people are already doing this. I wonder if it's possible to use the same models as your game, but attach different animations to them. The problem I see at the moment is that you would have to have the same model twice, so that the in-game version isn't burdened with all the animation of your intro scene.

Can anyone add to this?

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Jess T
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Posted: 11th Oct 2003 10:05
I agree with BatVink, any idea is a good idea (as long as its not "Lets scream like 3yr olds and then robb a bank" of course)

If only one soloution is put forward and it doesnt work, then the problem isnt solved is it?

But, if multiple soloutions are put forward, then the problem can be solved in more than one way or in a mixture of ways...

And, besides, i like your little comments that you make PoHa!84...

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 05:32
Heh... thanks *blushes*

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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 13:36
I wanted to make a scripting language to handle small in game cutscenes, such as characters meeting up and having a conversation. While the player loses control of the character, and in comes a letterbox style view, probably with subtitles.

Problem was I had no idea how to do this, but maybe having a file that loads a series of function commands into an array or something, then running that. That probably wouldnt work anyway. Any ideas?

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
Jess T
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 14:09
Yeah, sounds like a good idea, and that would be how you do it (or you would use a file to hold all of the positioning/animation data [ie, numbers] and then load that into an array and get your program to read...

I would help you on this, but it sounds real difficult, but if you start it and show me something, ill be happy to lend a hand if you want to complete it

Hope I Helped...

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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 20:21
Im having trouble starting it myself actually, but I hope to start it when I get DBPro

Its a very complicated matter to get into.....UWDesign seems to have a good grasp of how it works as he's done one himself - or rather a form of BASIC that he has created.

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 20:39
have you tried anim8or? it lets you make 3d models then animate them and put a load of them together in a scene then make an .avi movie of the scene, it would take a while to get some good stuff, but its kinda an all in one package for what you need.


Jess T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 10:32
@ReD_eYe:
Im using 3D Canvas Pro which does exactly that and allows me to fully model the objects and i am also creating the scenery in 3D Canvas and then creating a .x object out of it. Then i will save all this to a .AVI file and play it through DarkBASIC...

Thanks for the suggestions though.

@M00NSHiNE:
Yeah, ok, i guess it sounds pretty hard to do (that is why i said that you can start it, hehe) But it was a good suggestion...

Thanks all for your help.

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BatVink
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 15:27
For cutscenes of people meeting up, how about this for a suggestion...

Take the position of one character. Set a new camera up at eye level, a few units away from the character, around 120 degrees from the direction he's facing (that is, behind his right shoulder). Set the second character a few units in front, and do a walk cycle up to character 1. Follow this with "idling" cycles, and you have your beginnings of a cutscene.

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Jess T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 15:40
ah, yes... but...

Its an intro that im doing... for stuff like that, then, yeah, i might need that in my game somewhere...

But its my intro to the entire game which sets the background for the game and which i intend to have multiple characters in and multiple speaking and a LARGE scene, also the main character will be having flash-backs... so there needs to also be another entirely different scene to do parts of it...

Hope you understand...

Thanks anyway.

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thinkdigital
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 23:05
It would be possible to program the intro in DB, with separate models, and delete all the objects when finished, right? If you did that, you could use the #Include commmand to insert it.

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Jess T
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 07:27
Hmm, yes...

BUT..

I thought of another way to do it... I can just create the *.avi file then make a little snippet that reads the first few bites of the fiel into a text document, then deletes those bytes from the file...

This would make the *.avi corrupt... therefore, noone else would be able to copy it and watch it etc.

Then , in my actuall program, i would get it to write those few bytes back onto the start of the file which would make the fiel complete again and then have ti read the file, play it, then delete those few bytes again so it is corrupt once again...

Make sense?

I don't know if it'll work or not, but that's what im gonna try, because i couldn't be bothered coding the scene, i would prefer to model it all and record it to a *.avi...

Thanks for all your help though...

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JoelJ
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 22:33
that...that is just cool. i would have never thought of doing something like that. lets hope it works...

<{^_^<}
thinkdigital
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 06:34 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2003 06:34
Ahh well. Would be kinda hard. BUT there is Movie Creation Programs (Esp. MS Movie Maker) that come free with XP. They make great movies! And plus, wouldn't it be kinda risky to do that to the file? Might mess up the program, although it would be SOOO much eaiser in the long run...

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Jess T
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 09:55
Huh?

I don't think you unserstand the situation here DarkJack.

I am making 3D Models and animating them then saving that animation into a .avi which will be played at the start of my game.

MS Movie Maker and the like, only allow editing (eg putting text on, removing/adding frames etc), that's not what i want...

What im gonna do is corrupt the file by adding data to the start of the file, and then, when it comes time to read the file, ill take that data away...
Or, another way i could do it would be to split the avi into two files (form inside DB) and save each as a .dat file which would mean there would be no avi to read, then i could just add one of the files to the end of the other one and save it as a *.avi, then, once it's played, delete that file, so it is nolonger there

I'm really just thinking out loud here...


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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 17:00
Hey JessTicular, I downloaded the code (text>array parser thing) from the codebase, it would be a good idea to post, either here or edit your codebase entry, a sample chunk of text that can be copied and pasted into a txt file, because im having trouble understanding how it understands the file.

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BatVink
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 18:55
If you split the file into two, the first one will still play simply by renaming the extension. It might do something weird on the last frame, but it will still play.

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Jess T
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 07:16 Edited at: 23rd Oct 2003 07:20
@BatVink:
Ok... didn't know that, i thought that it had the file size saved in the first few bytes and if the file size didn't match the size writen in the file iself, then it would be "corrupt"...

Weeeeelllll, what i could do then, would be take out the first few lines of the file, that outta stuff it up, then just re-add them through DB in-game...

Thanks for the info though...

@M00NSHiNE:
Ok.. Good idea, here is the sample that I personally use:


And don't forget, you can add more info, delete some or change the whole file completely... That's what the first function is for, reading the amount of data you put in it, so it can set up the array correctly...

You could also do something like:


And you could use that to set all the starting positions for your objects, and then use the new values as waypoints or something... And then you could use the sizes etc...

PS. I've put exactly what i wrote above into the file for others to see... sorry bout the lack of information...


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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 16:31
Thanks for that Look at that... JessTicular, remember the scripting thing I mentioned earlier in this thread? This looks like what I meant, parse the commands from a txt file into an array, then in order you could run through them and check each array index, like scene1$(1) and say
If scene1$(1) = position object...

Hold on, ive just become unstuck how could we get it to understand each parameter? I had an idea where the txt file is parsed into another type of file format, where its all stored as numbers, eg position object 1,0,0,0 could be 1001000 or something. I dont know, you seem to be better at this thing than me. Any ideas?

ZEDWARE website coming soon... //END TRANSMISSION//
Jess T
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Posted: 24th Oct 2003 01:11
It IS possible, but i think it would require a HEAP of work, and could potentially contain many bugs, and would be very hard to sort out if you get some of the position data wrong, because you would have to go through the entire *.txt file (which could have literally thousands of lines) and find where ther error is.

Your best bet is to make a little program, which makes the *.txt file for you.
I.e. You visually move/animate the character on screen and then have the proggy that you wrote, save all the data into the *.txt file, then you would have functions (similar to mine, though, more complex) whcih would read all that data in the *.txt file into arrays which would hold ALL of the positioning data for EVERY object on the screen.
That's why it could get hard. The amount of object positioning data you would need, and then, the animation data, then, the limb deformtion data. etc. etc.

But, nevertheless, its a good idea, if you ever solve it, tell me, and ill give it a go, and help you along the way


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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 24th Oct 2003 03:41
Thats the idea I had, make a prog that exports what you do on screen. Ah well, its too big a project to take on now... Maybe sometime in the future

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Mattman
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Posted: 24th Oct 2003 05:28
That is a great idea JessTicular, and could be done. IF you want some help e-mail me and maybe we can get it to work

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PoHa!84
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Posted: 24th Oct 2003 07:29
Sorry Jess... way off topic

But uh... gotta say... That is a really cool sig image there Mattman. Freaked me out...

Anyways, back on topic...

Sounds like you've got a good thing going. I wouldn't have thought to do the delete from file write back into file thing. Cool idea.

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Jess T
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Posted: 24th Oct 2003 08:29
Erm, Mattman, which one are you talking about? The avi file corruption, or the cinematic maker?

Thanks for the comments though guys


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Posted: 26th Oct 2003 14:57
file corruption

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