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Geek Culture / do u think dbp will ever be upgraded 2 latest dx?

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David iz cool
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 22:13
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ive really been feeling lately that dbp is an outdated prg that will never be upgraded 2 latest dx so we can make anything half as good as the games that are coming out these days.
so is my guess right?? dbp wont ever be upgraded 2 latest dx? with latest technology?

so when i finish my game im working on,go2 another language or give up gamemaking once & 4 all...i really should do latter.
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Rampage
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 22:23
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Who knows. I'm going with never will be updated. Still no reason to quit game making. There are lots of other engines out there.

Regards,

Max
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Indicium
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 22:47
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You can still make good games... As far as I'm aware, most games still use directX 9 anyways, right?

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 22:56
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Quote: "most games still use directX 9 anyways, right?"

most new games use 11

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Ocho Geek
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 22:59
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my god please type properly

and yes, most games stick to DX9 because window's sadistic idea of limiting Direct X 10+ to the latests OS's is just rediculous

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
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Eminent
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 23:35
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COD MW2 uses DX9 .


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David iz cool
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 23:36
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your saying tes 5,tomb raider origins & newer games will all use dx9?? i doubt that
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Eminent
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 23:45
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Well it's true. Many gamers use XP and they would be stabbing themselves in the stomach if they don't use DX9.


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swissolo
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 00:00
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I think a lot of games support DX9, 10 and 11. I'm aware Dirt 2 and Civ 5 both have options for it.

swis
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 02:31
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Quote: "my god please type properly"

Quote: "... rediculous"


"Only the educated are free" ~Epictetus
"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ~Einstein
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Quik
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 11:20
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most games use DX9 AND 10/11. never ONLY DX11, what would that give them? nothing, only loss of buyers.

no, should ALWAYS have older computers in mind


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 13:25
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To be honest, I don't think it'll be be upgraded, and I'm not too bothered. I've decided if you want to actually finish anything as an indi developer, you cannot start out aiming to make something as visually impressive as new AAA games. Once you get over that psychological hurdle and accept your games won't compare visually, then you realise DX9 is pretty enough to make things 75% as good.

Sure, with DX10 you'll be able to add extra prettiness, but with indi games I think it's the uniqueness that'll define their success, and slightly shiner looking polys should be low down your priority list.

Just my thoughts!

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David iz cool
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 17:37
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but doesnt newest dx make the game run better? smoother & better fr??

not to mention all the cool stuff
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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 18:04
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More well read people may correct me here, but I don't think dx11, for example, will give you any performance increase. I think it simply gives access to APIs that let you use the new features of dx11 graphics cards. For example, I believe 11 has some new tessellation technology, and DX11 will provide access to that if the card supports it. If the card doesn't support it, I guess you'll either (a) not be able to use that feature, or (b) it'll run in software mode (don't know about that!) and in which case performance will drop significantly.

Hopefully someone who knows DX will correct me if I'm wrong.

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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 18:21
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The way i see it, higher dx support has only the potential to increase sales in dark basic and production. So it wouldnt hurt. Especially because if the userbase see's TGC updating one of their main assets then it will keep a large user-base and attract more (potentially).

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Eminent
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 18:30
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I would MUCH rather DarkBasic Pro be optimized than have a gfx update. With it optimized, a newer DX won't matter as everything could(with lighting and shaders) look much better.


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dark coder
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 18:46
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It's not really about being faster or looking better, given all the changes in realtime graphics over the past decade, the old APIs were simply outdated and had to be rewritten(same on the OpenGL side). The DX9 API is filled with archaic features that driver writers must support, thus ditching it allows them to optimize it better. Part of that stripping out the old meant introducing new components to Vista such as DXGI, which I believe is the main reason why it requires Vista and up.

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Airslide
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 02:27
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You know, Shattered Horizon was DirectX 10 only and it seemed to have a fairly large user base. A lot of games still support DirectX 9 but it's only a matter of time before developers stop putting the effort in.
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Eminent
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 02:47
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I've never heard of that game .


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Indicium
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 16:40
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Sure it's only a matter of time til DX9 isn't supported by developers, but when will that be? Probably when DX15 comes out or something, personally I see no justifiable reason to switch to DX11, call me a noob but I don't even know what tessellation is.

I think MS could have combated this problem by releasing an update to XP allowing DX11 to be used.

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Ocho Geek
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 21:21
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tessellation is awesome... the problem is it would only be useful if you could apply it to older games

and yes... I know its practically impossible and would ruin a lot of games

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 29th Jan 2011 00:49
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Quote: "I see no justifiable reason to switch to DX11"

DX11 has HUGE performance improvements over DX9...
Not to mention all the new aspects of the API.

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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Jan 2011 02:11
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Quote: "DX11 has HUGE performance improvements over DX9..."


If that's true, it means squat to most indie developers. *Most* indie games are not as good looking as the newest AAA shooter, nor SHOULD they be, so performance improvements, if there are, wouldn't mean anything to most of us.


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Slayer
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Posted: 30th Jan 2011 05:22
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This is a great example of an indie game.

I like games like this, because this is were real ideas
are put into games.


I dont know how to spell
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That Guy John
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 01:56 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2011 02:05
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Quote: "DX11 has HUGE performance improvements over DX9"


No, the components that support DX11 have HUGE performance improvements, DX11 makes things prettier and more detailed which is more labor intensive on hardware.. so if you want to get real technical, DX11 is a "performance" drop from x9 and x10 but Quality improvement.. get it? lol

Slayer,

This is the first time I have seen that.. thats awesome. I like their model for their releases and build up before commercial launch.

Not to mention, the graphics and game play look like it is going to be awesome.
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Quik
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 11:35
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Quote: "If that's true, it means squat to most indie developers. *Most* indie games are not as good looking as the newest AAA shooter, nor SHOULD they be, so performance improvements, if there are, wouldn't mean anything to most of us.
"


seen a LOT of indie games having incredible graphics

Magicka and Zeno Clash being excellent examples.


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 11:56
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There are indi games, and indi games though. We are all mostly on the hobbyist side of things, working alone or in small groups. Some indi titles have teams of people behind them, much like small teams of pro developers and designers. A team that is big enough and talented enough to make good use of the new features of DX10/11, is big enough to make their own engine. There are no indi teams making games like that in DBPro, demand fuels develpment.

I think TGC should consider updating DBPro when a DBPro project that desperately needs DX10 comes along. Is FPSCx10 so much better than FPSCx9? - of course not, DX9 still fits the needs of hobbyist and indi developers, it's our lowest common denominator and that simply won't change.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 23:37
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I'm happy to develop in dx9. (Actually in dx7 right now in a different language)

I'm making a game within the confines of the engine. It's the only way you can do it unless you make your own engine.

You can't make games hoping one day a dx11 update will come out so you can get started.

You either work with what you got or you don't do anything at all. (or spend all your time writing game engines)

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 00:31
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I don't believe DBP will receive any sort of update soon, if not ever. TGC is more focused on the App Game Kit, and I think that's going to be the new mainstream product that will bring in new forum members and game programmers. DBP, much like DBC, will probably end up being left in the dust.

It's a shame because DBP is really very wonderful software if you're programming with it on Windows XP...on Windows 7 it's incredibly difficult because most IDEs for it hate Win7 for some reason and the engine itself gives a ton of "Failed to AddCPicker" or whatever that stupid thing is. I've actually just installed DarkGDK for my project and I've already had less of a hassle with it even though it's in C++.

I think TGC is also more concerned with DGDK than DBP, so hopefully DGDK will be updated for a while yet. But it definitely seems TGC are more concerned with AGK.

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Quel
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 01:31
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Interstellar Marines.

What's the answer of indie developers to the bigbuck mother f-ers?!

...

An FPS...

damn.

(served like it is the first on the planet..)
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Jeku
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 05:00
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Quote: "seen a LOT of indie games having incredible graphics

Magicka and Zeno Clash being excellent examples."


Notice I said most indie developers.


Senior Web Developer - Nokia
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MrValentine
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 06:36
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@CoffeeCoder

Hey Coffee ^^ do you still have the compile issue (I take it this is what you mean right?) on Win7? I found a workaround for it if you need it let me know. If you already know it ^^ cool.

Regards

MrValentine

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Slayer
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 07:26
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Quote: "This is the first time I have seen that.. that's awesome. I like their model for their releases and build up before commercial launch."


yah its a great way to get off the ground hu.

Quote: "Not to mention, the graphics and game play look like it is going to be awesome. "


yah sweet! and a must, look into project!


Quote: "Notice I said most indie developers."


hahaha yah "most" of the games ill never even play.
It still doesn't take a CS degree to make cool games...
knowledge is the tool. Talent is the key!

Quote: "#1 Develop, market, and distribute games independently from game publishing companies
#2 Contribute to the liberalisation of pricing and distribution of games
#3 Develop games with open doors
#4 Let gamers voice their opinion and make their influence count (through our forum)
#5 Deliver great games that, in any respects, can compete with what publishers put in the market
#6 Merge the technological innovation and scope of AAA productions with the creative freedom and the rooting in the community of indie productions"


I don't know if they teach this in school or not but it sure
as hell is new to me and sounds like a new game plan for the future
of game making.

and on directx... The game Rage is going to use openGL because
Carmac said he would use new directx when it becomes a demand
and that's not going to be anytime soon. So I dont think TGC
is going to head in that direction ether because of that reason...
I think cross platform is the best thing and TGC is doing just
that. Microsoft wants Directx to be a standard for windows...
I don't think that idea is going to work well for them.

That's my two cents

I dont know how to spell
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 07:27
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@MrValentine:

Yes, I believe it is a compile issue. It appears at random times, but I've noticed the error message appears more frequently if the project is bigger than 500 lines of code (which mine certainly was, it was over 1000), and also when one's been programming for several hours straight.

What's your workaround? I'd love to hear it.

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Quik
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 13:19
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Quote: "Notice I said most indie developers."


true true^^ i just wanted to point out that there are indie game developers who can focus on graphics and put out a final nice product aswell


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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MrValentine
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 13:55 Edited at: 4th Feb 2011 14:03
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@CoffeeCoder

Did you disable UAC (User Access Control)? and also did you set the THE GAME CREATORS folder in Program Files as an exempt DEP (Data Execution Prevention) item? along with all the excutables including the compiler, I have never had any issues aside from the odd one or two every now and then of the failed to add PCK to exe in media mode, its gotten rare now, all my compiles now compile without error, however I have not tried anything over 500 lines yet, but i reckon if you do what I have done, you should be ok, also in your antivirus make the same folders and exe's exempt from live system scans

Hope this helps and if you need a screenshot or even a video instructions guide, let me know.


EDIT!!! oops before you go about Disabling UAC, make sure you have both a good firewall in your router as well as a good antivirus
I personally have a very good cisco router with well configured firewall and I use Windows Live Security Essentials, a proven security package for spam applications and things that download off the internet, (for those skeptical of its free'ness... bare in mind it used to be a paid app and i was happy to pay for it when I did, I still have the OneCare case - this just proves the point as I was typing this, it already prompted me to upgrade to a newer version that theyre rolling out now so hope this helped)

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