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Geek Culture / European space prepares to make a really big decision.

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 10th Feb 2011 18:14 Edited at: 10th Feb 2011 18:15
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Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/jonathanamos/2011/02/european-space-prepares-to-mak.shtml

Options:
1: Send a 20m-long telescope called IXO that could see the edge of a black hole
2: Send a trio of satellites collectively known as LISA which might be able to detect the ripples in space-time left by the moment of creation itself (gravitational waves).
3: Send a pair of spacecraft that would visit two of the most promising locations for life beyond Earth in our Solar System. (2 moons of Jupiter: Europa, Ganymede).


I want to do option 3 because i think if we do find a suitable place to expand our race, due to the distance of the planets it should cause our space traveling technology to increase dramatically.

What do you think?

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Diggsey
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Posted: 10th Feb 2011 18:25
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I think we should build a factory on the moon. That would make future space missions so much cheaper and easier, as there's no need to escape the earth's gravity, or go through the earth's atmosphere.

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lazerus
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Posted: 10th Feb 2011 18:36
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3. easily


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Benjamin
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Posted: 10th Feb 2011 18:42
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I think option 2 sounds like the best idea, for the reasons stated in that article.



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Doomster
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Posted: 10th Feb 2011 19:06
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That's a hard decision... or not?

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kaedroho
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Posted: 10th Feb 2011 19:10
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Diggsey, but how would we get materials like metal to the moon?

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Diggsey
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Posted: 10th Feb 2011 19:21 Edited at: 10th Feb 2011 19:21
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The moon may be dead, but it's certainly not devoid of materials. The moon's surface contains many metals which could be refined and used to manufacture things. NASA actually made a theoretical plan of a self-sufficient factory to build on the moon. The only parts which needed to be sent from earth were micro-chips.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 10th Feb 2011 21:30
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i think they should do all of them this is soo cool btw

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 18:06
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It's nice that Europe won't be left in the dust now NASAs stepped down it's plans after it's funding cuts...

Lets be honest. The most important step in history we can imagine is getting humans living on other planets.

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Shaun Of The Dead
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 18:18 Edited at: 11th Feb 2011 18:20
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Definitely 2 Seems like the most logical solution really. No risk to human life by sending satellites is there?

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 18:48
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I say 3.

Finding extra-terrestrial life would be human-kind's biggest discovery, and it would change our understanding of the universe and our place in it. Our politics would change, out global ethics would change, it would mark a new era in human history. The other ideas won't. They answer scientific questions, not human ones.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
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bitJericho
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 18:55 Edited at: 11th Feb 2011 19:02
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I'd say not 3. If there is life on the moon, we'd contaminate it irreversibly. That said, I'm all for a method that's safe for the potential ecosystem.

Checking out the moons of Jupiter is neat and all, but detecting gravity waves for things we can't see, that's just sweet.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 19:00
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Quote: "I'd say not 3. If there is life on the moon, we'd contaminate it irreversibly. That said, I'm all for a method that's safe for the potential ecosystem."


I don't think a spacecraft that sends down a robot to dig into the ice is going to spread many viruses

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bitJericho
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 19:03
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Quote: "I don't think a spacecraft that sends down a robot to dig into the ice is going to spread many viruses"


Actually, it will, and bacteria. It would be a shame to cover Ganymede in terrestrial bacteria when in a few decades we may have better technology for finding life.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 19:05 Edited at: 11th Feb 2011 19:05
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Bacteria doesn't live in outer space. It'll take years to get there, what will it eat? How will it replicate?


[edit]

You're aware these'll be unmanned spacecraft right?

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Benjamin
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 19:09
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Quote: "Finding extra-terrestrial life would be human-kind's biggest discovery, and it would change our understanding of the universe and our place in it. Our politics would change, out global ethics would change, it would mark a new era in human history."


But if we don't find any, it'll be a waste of time and money that could have been spent on better things such as option 2.



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Zotoaster
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 19:17
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Quote: "But if we don't find any, it'll be a waste of time and money that could have been spent on better things such as option 2. "


Whether we do it now, in 100 years or 1000 years, there will always be other options, and it will always be risky. Since we can do it now, we might as well try, and get us on better footing for next time!

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bitJericho
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 19:17
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Quote: "Bacteria doesn't live in outer space. It'll take years to get there, what will it eat? How will it replicate?"


Bacteria lived for years on the moon:

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1998/ast01sep98_1/

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 19:24
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That's very interesting, but regardless, the bacteria would have to reproduce to spread, which it can't do unless it's got something to eat, and that's even if it gets there. It's been a long time since the moon-landings.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 21:54
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Quote: "Finding extra-terrestrial life would be human-kind's biggest discovery, and it would change our understanding of the universe and our place in it. Our politics would change, out global ethics would change, it would mark a new era in human history. The other ideas won't. They answer scientific questions, not human ones."

I think you misunderstand human nature; sadly it wouldn't change anything.


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Doomster
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 22:06
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Quote: "humans living on other planets"

New planets that we can destroy over time, yay.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 12th Feb 2011 00:13
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Quote: "That's very interesting, but regardless, the bacteria would have to reproduce to spread, which it can't do unless it's got something to eat, and that's even if it gets there. It's been a long time since the moon-landings."


If it's viable for other life, it may well be viable for bacterial life. Anyways, scientists have a firm understanding of this, and is exactly why Galileo was destroyed in Jupiter's atmosphere. Anyways, from the description it looks like they want to have orbital vehicles, not landers.

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PrimalBeans
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Posted: 12th Feb 2011 00:55
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we could turn the moon into the death star and then go conquer the alien life on jupiters moons. As far as bacteria whats to say bacteria cant inhabit a life supporting rock??? If there are alien organisms living on a moon they would have an environment to sustain them correct? Seems that it would be plausable for bacteria from our planet could survive there as well. Regardless you can never truely study anyting without changing it in some way anyway. Honestly i can think of much more important issues that money could be used for right here. (Like in my bank account!LOL.) Anyway im sorry that i cant take this seriously, thats just me. Im serious about making the moon into the death star though.



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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 12th Feb 2011 02:38
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Quote: "Finding extra-terrestrial life would be human-kind's biggest discovery, and it would change our understanding of the universe and our place in it. Our politics would change, out global ethics would change, it would mark a new era in human history. The other ideas won't. They answer scientific questions, not human ones."

o.o
I don't think it would change anything... We know (some estimates of) the odds of life existing, so it exists *somewhere*.

I don't think any one mission should be prioritized over any other, and they all should be done eventually. Options 1 and 2 are about finding experimental evidence of theory (DEFINITELY IMPORTANT!!!), and option 3 is about getting information for future missions. I'd say they're equally important in the long run, but for now, I'd go with option 1. We've never seen a black hole before! We just know that *something* exists there, not really *what* it is! We also have never found direct experimental evidence of gravitational waves. For all we know physicists and astronomers could be totally wrong about black holes. While it's unlikely, you just can't insist on something you haven't observed! that's what separates the scientists from the crackpots! (and ever once in a while that genius with a hunch xD)

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 13:36
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there needs to be another space race to give nasa competition as during the space race the progress seemed to go faster. Stuff that soviets had planned were insane like an orbital space rocket factory so rockets can be launched right out of orbit. required much less fuel than when its launced from the ground. But they were so in a hurry to beat americans to the moon, instead they made a super huge mega rocket with people and supplies to build a moon base and return back to earth. The lead ingeneer of it dies shortly before completion, and his team screwed up without him, and fuled the rocked with the slightly wrong fuel so the rocket blew up shortly after it was launched. But if the thing worked it woulf have been something pretty epic.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 20:35
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Finding extra-terrestrial life is like finding a needle in the universe.


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 20:39
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Hardly, if they throw out as many probes, radio waves and space junk as we do.

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General Jackson
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 20:43 Edited at: 13th Feb 2011 20:46
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Quote: "Our politics would change, out global ethics would change"

Uhh no mine wouldn't
And I say 3.

I don't understand what the point of
Quote: "Send a trio of satellites collectively known as LISA which might be able to detect the ripples in space-time left by the moment of creation itself (gravitational waves)."
is.

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Indicium
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 21:12
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Think of the implications it has, if there are indeed space-time ripples in space, then we may be able to create our own, and travel far faster without the time dilation effect.

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General Jackson
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 21:17
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Quote: "Think of the implications it has, if there are indeed space-time ripples in space, then we may be able to create our own, and travel far faster without the time dilation effect."


So kind of like super-fast space travel?

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Indicium
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 21:23
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Hopefully :p Who knows what it could discover

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 21:35
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i really hope they go through with these things, i was always faacinaded with space and whats beyond our safteybubble of earth

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 23:11
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Quote: "I don't understand what the point of
Quote: "Send a trio of satellites collectively known as LISA which might be able to detect the ripples in space-time left by the moment of creation itself (gravitational waves)."
is."


same as the other ones? To discover new things or find proof of things that we think.

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