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AppGameKit Classic Chat / How much faster will the app kit be compared to dbp? (2d)

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 13th Mar 2011 23:59
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Just wondering how much faster the app kit will be compared to dbp on drawing 2d gfx?

Could be good to know when you prototype ideas for the app kit until its released

Van b wrote that it would be faster thanks to open gl !
But how much faster?
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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 14th Mar 2011 00:28
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You also have to consider the hardware you run the game on.

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Van B
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Posted: 14th Mar 2011 13:52
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Yeah, it is pretty difficult to guage as your PC will be pushing 2D faster than anything. The thing with OpenGL, is it should be faster if it's optimised, even more so if we can have more than 4 vertices on a sprite. Things like tiled maps could be a lot quicker to draw than with standard 2D DBPro (comparitively) - because a map mesh could be pre-assembled, kinda like a 3D mesh, but in 2D.
One possibility is to allow point sprites as well, which would mean even faster 2D, but without rotation - point sprites are great for particle effects.

One thing that I'd really like to see is the ability to alter coordinates etc on a pre-made mesh. For example, I have a water effect in a game I'm writing in DBPro for PC, and XCode for iOS - So DBPro and DX vs C++ and OpenGLES. Some things are just a lot easier in GL... The DBPro version has a custom mesh that I vertex adjust to the relevant coordinates, but with OpenGL that equivalent mesh is created with code. The major difference is that the DBPro version uses 3D whereas everything on the OpenGL version is 2D. DBPro just couldn't manage it in pure 2D, I had to use a 3D engine instead of sprites. The only alternative would be to draw the water effect line by line - very slow!. I was using sprites, but even then you use 3D for sprites in DX, so 2D in DBPro is really beoomming something of a myth. I don't know if anyone is writing a game that uses just the paste image command.

I guess that's a major thing to consider - OpenGLES should hopefully allow us to do distortions, UV map adjustments and tiled sprite sheets, pre-assembled map meshes, vertex colouring (each corner of a sprite could be a different colour, opacity), handy stuff for 2.5D games... Let's hope TGC go to town on the 2D commands to allow us that sort of freedom.

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 14th Mar 2011 18:31 Edited at: 14th Mar 2011 19:53
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Quote: " I don't know if anyone is writing a game that uses just the paste image command."

The prototype i do for my app kit engine is drawing everything with the paste sprite command !
As iam planning on using the animated sprite command to easy and fast draw various wall segments without the nead to handle multiple images.

I dont know if you have tested the early prototype of an simple draw engine? in the wip section ?

Still a bit early and rough.

I want to get my hands on the app kit soon! to fool around with it

Quote: "You also have to consider the hardware you run the game on."

Quote: "Yeah, it is pretty difficult to guage as your PC will be pushing 2D faster than anything. "

Yes i know that! But iam wondering about the overall performance compared.
Iam planning to do games for iphone and android .
But i still want them to work on the older models.
iphone and iphone 3g.
620 MHz (underclocked to 412 MHz)
iphone 3gs.
833 MHz (underclocked to 600 MHz)
iphone 4.
1 GHz (underclocked to 800 MHz)
would be easier to know if i get an engine to run around 100 fps on my pc in dbp ?
How would it then run on the app kit on the same pc.

Quote: "Let's hope TGC go to town on the 2D commands to allow us that sort of freedom."

Would be wonderfull with all that power you mentioned in sprite and 2d commands
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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
Posted: 18th Mar 2011 05:44
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We did some performance tests a few weeks ago and was pleasantly surprised. The interpreter is very tight now and I got something like 2000 fps drawing 10,000 sprites on my Windows system when I switched off vsync. More recent tests show all our 'little game examples' run at the full 60fps on the iPhone, iPad, Mac and Windows platforms we're running here. We also intend to support ALL the iOS devices, even as far back as the early 1st generation devices (3.1.3) so as soon as we do some more performance tests we'll let you know how it runs on my ageing iPod Touch Remember, plenty of the horsework is done in the engine rather than during the byte-code so all the back-end graphics and sound management is done at lightning native speeds!

I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 19th Mar 2011 11:49 Edited at: 19th Mar 2011 11:50
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Quote: "I got something like 2000 fps drawing 10,000 sprites on my Windows system when I switched off vsync."


Quote: "We also intend to support ALL the iOS devices, even as far back as the early 1st generation devices (3.1.3) "



I couldt explain in it in words

Sounds wonderfull!
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 4th Apr 2011 10:11
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Some of the newer Android phones will have 1.6GHz processors. In a cell phone! That's crazy talk!

The Internet: Where men are men, women are men, and children are federal agents
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Ched80
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Location: Peterborough, UK
Posted: 4th Apr 2011 10:48
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That's actually faster than my current laptop ;(

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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 7th Apr 2011 05:58
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To get an idea of performance, grab an old copy of DarkBASIC Classic (from our download site). This language is very similar to DBP and uses an interpreter. It was written ten years ago, and I have learned a few things since then (and forgotten a lot too), but I am pretty confident that AppGameKit is a darn site faster than the DBC one.

I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.
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DMXtra
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Posted: 7th Apr 2011 13:58 Edited at: 7th Apr 2011 14:02
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Lee,

Can you provide how many frames per second AppGameKit is using iphone iOS devices (old and new) and using 4 or 5 1024x1024 32 bit sprite sheets?

This is meant as forming a benchmark, so we can see how fast the engine is.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
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