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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Put paying adverts into your game [Google Adsense]!

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Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 09:58
Hi basjak. Not sure I'm entirely clear what you're after but I hope this will help. If not, do say and I'll have another go!

1. Create a fully functional website with a decent amount of content
2. Buy some web hosting space and a domain name
3. Upload your website
4. Apply for a Google AdSense account and wait for approval
5. Log in to your Google AdSense account and go to My Ads>New Ad Unit
6. Use the wizard that appears to create the kind of banner you want to appear in your game, bearing in mind that it will not be resizable and so must fit on the smallest supported screen resolution
7. Create a new html page that is to display your advert
8. Copy the following code into your new page



9. In Google AdSense, click "Get Code" on your new advert and copy the code in to the html page where it ways "<!-- SCRIPT FROM ADSENSE GOES HERE -->"
10. Save and upload the html page to your website
11. Create a new source file in your DBP project and copy in the following code



12. Make sure you have Matrix1Utils and BBB GUI plugins installed
13. Add 'InitializeAds()' and 'start bbb gui' somewhere at the top of your code before you make any other referenses to ads
14. Add 'end bbb gui' somewhere that it will be run just before the program closes
15. In your setup code, make ads in the same way as you would sprites, using the 'MakeAd(nID,nX,nY,nWidth,nHeight,sURL$)' command. sURL$ should equal the address of the html page made earlier on your website
16. Once ads are created, you can move them using 'PositionAd(ID,nX,nY)' and hide/show them using 'ShowAd(nID)' and 'HideAd(nID)'
17. In every main loop in your program where any ads could be displayed, add the 'HandleAds()' command
18. Compile and run your program!

baxslash
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 11:50
Thanks a lot Lucas!

basjak
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Posted: 12th Aug 2011 01:01
thanks lucas. its what am looking for. I appreciate your post
DemonHill
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 16:27
@ Lucas,

Have implemented your suggestions and ad window appears in my game, however I have had to create a web page the size of my banner, and even though I have meta headers etc. it always shows my alternate url for when ad doesn't show.

IS it correct that I make the webpage the size of the banner ?

How else can I remove the scroll bars if I use a full size web page ?

see here.

http://www.grandprixteammanager.com/adsense.html

This show in my game and the logo comes from this link

http://www.grandprixteammanager.com/banner.html

Looks great in game but never shows google ad and not sure if it's due to the page size and the way google ad views my page.

Any ideas ?
JackDawson
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 18:05 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 18:13
For those saying they got paid, I am curious to know more about how you did that. My friend jester has had his ad-Sense account for about 4 years now. He still has not gotten paid. The fine print said he has to make so much before they pay out. He had his ad-sense everywhere before he finally took it out. It was just making his website ugly. And there is no way to prevent ads from sending you a virus unless you have an anti-virus built in as was stated at the beginning of this thread. Which to what I have seen, will slow down your game and / or computer in general because its constantly scanning.

Also, the idea of ads in games just sounds more like a security risk. Not to mention the extra lag it would cost you as it tries to connect to download the ad. ( Which means if it cannot connect it would be constantly pounding the Ad server trying to connect which just adds to the lag, or slower CPU time cycles. ) But if I ever did it, I would put it into the credits section so that its not visible during game play. Otherwise it would be a total turn off.

"Son, I crap bigger then you !"
Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 19:12
@DemonHill
I'm not quite with you about the size of the web page. However the ONLY thing on the page should be the ad and it should be positioned in the top left, regardless of where you want it to appear in your game. You then create the Ad in DBP the same size as your banner and place it wherever you want. I can't help but notice that your ad is centred so I'm not sure how that's working. Hope that helps but if not, please do ask.

@JackDawson
Quote: "The fine print said he has to make so much before they pay out."

So did he ever reach this amount? Because if not he wont have gotten paid.. Also there are rules about "valid" and "invalid" clicks. Are you sure that Google wasn't reducing his income because of invalid clicks? Now I can't actually claim to have received a payment yet so I'll keep you posted on this one but in my case, I wouldn't have expected to. I suppose I just find it hard to believe that a corporation like Google which makes most of its money from ads would actually be scamming the hundreds of thousands of people using Google AdSense and be getting away with it.

I'm also not clear on what you say about viruses. If you run windows, you should have an anti-virus anyway and if you have a good anti-virus (Avira, Avast etc - NOT McAffy, Norton etc) then you shouldn't experience too much slow down.. Further I don't see how Google Ads are any greater a security risk that most of the web content we get. This forum has Google Ads but I've never had any problems with viruses from them. There is a certain delay in load time for downloading the ad but it only does this once so it's not "constantly pounding the Ad server trying to connect".

I think the most important issue you raise is about whether you actually want ads in your game. Yes they are ungainly and in many cases ugly but in part, to be honest, this is the point. I use the ads in the free version of the game as a means of encouraging people to upgrade to the full version. But like you, I don't actually put the ads in the middle of the game, I only put them in the menus. But Angry Birds for example does put them in game.

JackDawson
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 23:56 Edited at: 4th Sep 2011 00:03
@ Lucas Tiridath
Quote: "So did he ever reach this amount? Because if not he wont have gotten paid.. Also there are rules about "valid" and "invalid" clicks."


Correct he never reached the amount. And yes he knows full well about the rules as he deals with other aspects of google. Like their API programming.

Quote: "Are you sure that Google wasn't reducing his income because of invalid clicks?"


According to the rules, they pay out ONLY if they are valid, but at the time he did this there was nothing in the rules about reducing for invalid clicks. But that's not the problem here. He had it for 4 years. So even if he did have invalid clicks, he should have had some good clicks in there as well. Apparently it just doesn't pay as much as they make it look.

Quote: "Now I can't actually claim to have received a payment yet so I'll keep you posted on this one but in my case, I wouldn't have expected to. I suppose I just find it hard to believe that a corporation like Google which makes most of its money from ads would actually be scamming the hundreds of thousands of people using Google AdSense and be getting away with it."


They are a lot bigger then they look. They are not worried about a law suit just like MS is not worried about it either.

Quote: "I'm also not clear on what you say about viruses. If you run windows, you should have an anti-virus anyway and if you have a good anti-virus (Avira, Avast etc - NOT McAffy, Norton etc) then you shouldn't experience too much slow down.. "


Well the problem is, even in a game, people can find ways around your security. Nothing is 100% safe. And if your running an anti-virus to prevent that kind of traffic, WHILE in the game, then yea, it can slow down the computer / internet speeds after a while. McCaffee and Norton are well known for this kind of behavior as well.. not to mention there were websites on how to hack AO-Hell and Norton users. And they both can scan internet traffic, which in turn slows down the computer / internet. Unless you own a Quad Core or faster you would see the slow down and the lag. And Lag is extremely important when it comes to online games.

Quote: "Further I don't see how Google Ads are any greater a security risk that most of the web content we get. This forum has Google Ads but I've never had any problems with viruses from them."


Well keep in mind, if you installed a game that you have set to ALLOW the ads to come through, there is nothing to prevent a malicious one from coming through because when you installed the game, you set it up to allow the ad to come through. Basically Administrator Mode. Meaning, nothing to stop the virii. Plain click-able banner pictures is one thing. But keep in mind, most things now days use JAVA. Just as Google does. A Scripting Language and / or a programming language that can execute commands or functions. There is nothing to prevent it and if your not physically looking for it in the heat of a game, you would never know you were compromised. Also I use FireFox on the internet, so I NEVER see the ads. ( Thank you AdBlock Plus !! ) And that HELPS prevent from Virii to get through since there is a way to block them. You cannot do that in a game. The plugin I have is strictly for FireFox only. The guy who makes it already announced that he will NOT make this plugin for any of the other browsers.

Quote: "There is a certain delay in load time for downloading the ad but it only does this once so it's not "constantly pounding the Ad server trying to connect"."


It can if google servers do not respond. I see it constantly. Even as of last night I saw google ( Gmail ) not responding. Even Google search was working slowly as well as their gmail for about 30 minutes. It was REAL laggy. But then it cleared right up. I see this randomly. But that's the point. You never know. And no, there was no lag on any other website. I am vigilant when it comes to my internet speeds. And yes I know that you cannot always prevent lag. But adding banner downloads to the mix CAN slow you down while your online in the heat of battle.

Quote: "I think the most important issue you raise is about whether you actually want ads in your game. Yes they are ungainly and in many cases ugly but in part, to be honest, this is the point."


Which is why I will not play a game nor would I pay for a game that has ads. Too many potential problems. I'm not saying you have to be a prude, but come on, a little caution can save you days of work. So with common sense there is certain things you stay away from. And there is no 100% guarantee a virus will not get through with ANYTHING. So I just don't want to add that extra risk to an already risky situation.

Quote: "I use the ads in the free version of the game as a means of encouraging people to upgrade to the full version. But like you, I don't actually put the ads in the middle of the game, I only put them in the menus. But Angry Birds for example does put them in game."


And see if its in the credits or HELP system, then its not so bad when it comes to lag. But the risks are still going to be there. Keep in mind, Google will tell you that THEY are not responsible for the type of ads that come through. They only funnel it. They get paid by the companies that pay them for the opportunity to display the ads, but google has no control over the types of ads that get through. Read their rules, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Hope this info helps you understand why its my personal opinion NOT to play games with ads. These are experiences I personally have gone through with software in the past. So I know full well the dangers. Its better for ME to just not play those types of games. I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone else here, but since this thread was about this, I was offering the idea about putting it in the help or credits of the game so that its not a constant thing while your playing.

"Son, I crap bigger then you !"
BatVink
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Posted: 4th Sep 2011 19:49
Quote: "And there is no way to prevent ads from sending you a virus unless you have an anti-virus built in as was stated at the beginning of this thread"


How would you get viruses from a Google ad? Ads are the core revenue stream for Google, if they were susceptible to viruses their entire business would collapse. I'm not sure how you think a rogue ad could get in, they are all served from Google's servers, not from independent websites.

I got paid out regularly from Google when I had a couple of websites. You can't expect to put up a website with no valuable content and have visitors flock to your site and click on ads. If 1-2% of visitors click an ad, you're doing ok. You need about 1500 - 2000 visitors a day to make about $1 each day at that conversion rate.

As for Google conning people, the original model was to give sites a third of the revenue. They deemed this as unworkable, and sites get about 60 - 70% of the income from clicks. You'll struggle to find a fairer scheme than that anywhere else, in any industry.

JackDawson
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Posted: 4th Sep 2011 21:11 Edited at: 4th Sep 2011 22:00
@ BatVink Hey there. Well the info I have ran into several times is known as Adware. Here is a definition :

Adware

Adware is any software application in which advertising banners are displayed while the program is running. The authors of these applications include additional code that delivers the ads, which can be viewed through pop-up windows or through a bar that appears on a computer screen.


Think of your browser that displays the ads. Microsoft is not responsible if the ads come through their internet explorer. AND in the same case the website that promotes the ads also will tell you they have no control over where the ads come from or what comes through it. Yahoo has this Message all over their forums / website. It doesn't mean that yahoo is at fault. It means they cannot control it. Its the same with Google. They are not responsible for what comes through the ads. They only supply it from their customers. No one is pointing blame at google here.

The other thing is banner hi-jacking. You can never be certain that a particular ad is not being rerouted through phishing. Its why phishing access is an option in your browser.

If you want to learn some of the ways rootkits and adware and trojans and virus come into your computer read this link. I just did a google search and this was one of thousands of links.

http://www.myaccount.charter.com/customers/support.aspx?supportarticleid=34

Here is one about facebook :

http://www.pcworld.com/article/155017/facebook_virus_turns_your_computer_into_a_zombie.html

In other words if you click on the ad or link in this case you also could end up with some malicious code. And if an ad is in a game, the game creator will get the blame even though its not the game creators fault. I mean look how its been mentioned how people are assuming that google could be to blame when I'm clearly stating that they are not.

The point I am conveying is that I personally do not trust ads which is why I use firefox on my websites. I NEVER see the ads because of the plugin that only works with firefox. So you who do not use FireFox is more at risk then those who do. Look this info up and you'll understand more of what I'm saying.

Again, this is why I personally do not like ads in my games, it doesn't have to be your opinion. Live and let live, to each his own.. you know that kind of thing..

And yes I do know about PPC and SEO's. I know how they work. Which is why I am so adamant / anal about this.

EDIT : I was looking up some info about Ad-Sense when I spoke to my friend about it just now. He says they are changing the way Ad-Sense does things. So you will have the ability to filter what comes through your ads. ( He also agreed with you BatVink on how google pays out, but he also said that you left out that google has a Minimum limit as to how much you have to make before you get paid )

https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?answer=1229957&sourceid=aso&subid=ww-ww-et-encHCfooter&medium=link

Quote: "I got paid out regularly from Google when I had a couple of websites. You can't expect to put up a website with no valuable content and have visitors flock to your site and click on ads."


I never said anything of this nature, but keep in mind too, people like me who use firefox and went to his website would never see his ads. So its probably why he never got paid. The nature of your website probably is because most of your users still use another browser.

Here is statistics on browsers if you want to see for yourself whats going on..

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

"Son, I crap bigger then you !"
baxslash
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Posted: 4th Sep 2011 23:31
Quote: "google has a Minimum limit as to how much you have to make before you get paid"

I think it was $100 but I'm going from memory...

I think some people worry too much about viruses personally. I've had no 'anti-virus' protection, used almost every browser but firefox and seen thousands upon thousands of ads in the last three years and guess what? No viruses... maybe I've been lucky but I gave up the protection a couple of years ago as an experiment.

Sometimes I get my hands dirty in the garden and eat a sandwich without washing them. I don't wipe surfaces down unless they look dirty and I treat my computer the same way. I don't worry and I don't suffer for it either.

I don't see how a game maker can be blamed for ad content displayed by their game any more than the makers of Firefox could be blamed for someone getting a virus via something they downloaded using it.

Just my own personal opinion...

JackDawson
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Posted: 4th Sep 2011 23:44
Quote: "
I don't see how a game maker can be blamed for ad content displayed by their game any more than the makers of Firefox could be blamed for someone getting a virus via something they downloaded using it."


your exactly correct.

"Son, I crap bigger then you !"
Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 5th Sep 2011 04:21
Quote: "I think it was $100 but I'm going from memory..."

Yes I think that's right. It's £60 for me as it varies by the currency of your account.

Quote: "I NEVER see the ads because of the plugin that only works with firefox. So you who do not use FireFox is more at risk then those who do."

Just on this, I know it's a bit of a random point but if you're referring to AdBlock Plus, then it is also available for Google Chrome along with the even more popular AdBlock plugin. The fact that AdBlock is the most popular Chrome extension shows that a lot of people do block their ads.

On the security issue and the issue of Google's responsibility... Ads are without question a security risk. As you so rightly say, they are able to execute scripts on your computer and that creates the potential for harmful programs to be run. Now Google does offer filtering but that is not really to do with security - after all, it's not going to have the permit/block ads with viruses option . That is more to do with the suitability of content and it works pretty well. I have the settings on very strict and prudish settings because RADAR is a game rated 6+ and I want to keep it that way. When Google says they take no responsibility for the content of ads though, this is what they mean. The categories I block are - I believe - registered by the advertisers so if an advertiser misrepresents what their advert is about in the categorisation process, then it may get through the filtering that I've set up. However all this is totally separate from security. Google's AdSense network has in build security checking that works like an anti-virus to scan for malware and it bans any advertisers who attempt to put malware through its systems. As you say, there is no guarantee and the truth is, malware is usually found when some of it gets through, but Google does offer protection from malware. It's just not perfect.

Now JackDawson as you said, really it is a matter of opinion how much of a risk you are willing to take. You obviously take a lot of precautions and their's nothing wrong with that. What I would be interested to know is what proportion of people take a similar line? After all, if a large proportion of people wont play a game with an advert in it due to security concerns, then that has a major impact on devs trying to decide whether to include ads in their games. Also you talk about the difference between in-game ads and in-menu ads. However security wise, there is no difference. Thus, would you not play a game with an ad in it; regardless of where it was? Hopefully a discussion of this can help us decide what impact putting ads in our games may have.

JackDawson
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Posted: 5th Sep 2011 06:10 Edited at: 5th Sep 2011 06:31
Quote: "Just on this, I know it's a bit of a random point but if you're referring to AdBlock Plus, then it is also available for Google Chrome along with the even more popular AdBlock plugin. The fact that AdBlock is the most popular Chrome extension shows that a lot of people do block their ads."


Wow, I just found an article that backs what your saying. Apparently the guy changed his mind about only making this only for Firefox. Good call. I got to let my other friends know about it.

EDIT : I checked into it a little further. Apparently it has some issues with chrome still. And its only made for K-Meleon, Chrome and Firefox so far. Not any other browser. ( Unless I missed the other downloads for the other browsers somehow. )

http://adblockplus.org/en/known-issues-chrome

Firefox issues can be fixed by upgrading to newest version 6 of FF. So far for me it works flawlessly without lagging my computer memory that the chrome users are facing right now. CPU revs up too high etc etc. He is working on the fix though.


Quote: "What I would be interested to know is what proportion of people take a similar line?"


I agree. This would at least give people the opportunity to see. A lot of people are not aware of the dangers. That's the problem. So they do not see it as the risk that some other folks do. Its why certain Libraries block online games, or companies block it too. ( The libraries I was at recently here in Orlando FL all block PORTS other then Port 80 for web traffic. The one downtown blocked all ports because games were allowing rootkits to get into their systems. Take a guess what they did to secure the Ads ? They set up the computers to make a clean re-install and reboot which is short as its in memory so its fast every time someone uses it. It was the only way they could stop the ads from getting through. Lot of people who barely know what a computer is that go there have never heard of Firefox. Although some do, but the library never installed it. Less to re-image I guess. )

Quote: "Also you talk about the difference between in-game ads and in-menu ads. However security wise, there is no difference. Thus, would you not play a game with an ad in it; regardless of where it was? Hopefully a discussion of this can help us decide what impact putting ads in our games may have."


I agree there is no difference. But I only stated this as a way to cut down lag instead of putting the banner visible or downloading all the time. Remember ads in general will rotate different company ads. I'm not saying all do, but a lot of them do. So its constantly talking to the download server. In other words for those who play games with ads, if your going to add it to your game, put it somewhere where its not interfering to cause lag. IF you must have ads that is. The Help or Menu ( Options ) is a good place to put it.

"Son, I crap bigger then you !"
BatVink
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Posted: 5th Sep 2011 19:23
There is a distinct difference between ads and the website they lead you to. The ad itself will not infect your PC.

If you choose not to run AV software when browsing the internet (which is what clicking an advert is) then you cannot apportion blame to others (although I realise that not all viruses are caught). Google scan websites for viruses, so you are also protected by them from malicious websites before your own AV kicks in.

JackDawson
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Posted: 5th Sep 2011 19:29
Quote: "There is a distinct difference between ads and the website they lead you to. The ad itself will not infect your PC."


ha ha, I like your way of thinking here. Its like saying.. "Hey I got this poisoned candy here. You can look at it all you want, just don't eat it."

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 5th Sep 2011 21:45
Quote: "The ad itself will not infect your PC."

Is that true? Ads execute javascript or flash on your computer so surely it is possible for the ad itself to be malware. That's what Google's filtering is there to block. Of course the websites they link to could also have malware or be phishing sites but I think that ads could theoretically have malware too. But then that is the case with anything that executes on your computer. As I say, some protection is there so it's all a matter of how much of a risk you're willing to take.

I must admit that I tend to think that most people who block ads do so because they think they are unsightly rather than because of security concerns and so they wont necessarily reject a game out of hand because of ads but I may be wrong on this and I think it's important to find out.

JackDawson
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Posted: 6th Sep 2011 04:35 Edited at: 6th Sep 2011 05:07
Not all the time no. But that's the problem. You never know when you will and you never know where its actually taking you if your java scripting is enabled to the wrong people. Which by the way if you turn off JAVA scripting, you'll notice a LOT of sites will not let you use their site until you turn it back on. That's a trick they use to keep an eye on you. Facebook and Google ( Gmail ) does this. Also, a good tip, turn off your "tracking cookie" to 3rd parties. You do not have to turn off the normal cookies. Firefox has the ability to turn off location tracking as well. Cookies in general are OK ONLY IF its coming from the main site your needing access too. But 3RD party cookies are there to watch you and keep track of what you do. This is how the advertising companies also know what you like and its another way that your email will get spam of things you "suddenly" like. Its all tied together.

Now just watching you is one thing. But those same cookies mixed with JAVA scripting CAN allow them access to your machine. Hence, adware and spyware, as well as RootKits. All of these can allow them access to your machine. And then with a simple upload of a virus, boom, you have lost control of your computer.

Some friends of mine and I used to play with a software known as VCL. ( Virus Creation Lab ) back in the early 2K. It will not run on Vista / Win 7, but the point is, if that was made then, who knows what is out there now. ( And if I knew, I definitely would not tell ya. I'm not stupid. ) With VCL, I used to be able to resonate one of the 3 Guns in the back of the old school CRT monitors with a higher frequency and blow the monitor. Nasty Virus. But it was fun to watch your screen go black with a puff of smoke. I love Assembler.

Point being, there is more out there then people want to believe, and that's the danger. I do agree, you cannot hide under a rock, but you have to take precautions. Some, like my friend, do not install Anti-Viruses. 5 years and he NEVER had a virus, until this past year. Then he lost everything. It only takes one time. And guess what he was playing ? A game with a banner in it.

Now I hope you understand my concern about it.

EDIT : By the way, THIS WEBSITE FORUM uses Java scripting for their banners here. I just tested it. So to answer your question again, YES some do. But not all. To test this, turn off Java Scripting in your browser for a second. And you will not see those Google Ads that show up on this forum. With firefox, I get around having to shut off my java because AdBlock Plus knows how to get around it. So I do not see the ads. ( I sound like a broken record, but not everyone reads all the posts, so I am repeating this point of interest here. )

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
WickedVixen
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Posted: 8th Sep 2011 05:55 Edited at: 8th Sep 2011 05:56
You choose to click an ad and it takes you to a webpage. The same kind of thing happens when you click a download link-- you're briefly taken to a webpage for a resolve-- then the download begins.

Inside that download, whether its a ZIP file or an EXE or some other suffix, you're telling the computer to activate the download process and bring it into your computer.

Most viruses are initiated upon the activation of the parent code-- usually a "game" or "illegal copy" of a paid-for application-- and stuffed into your computer somewhere... Then the virus begins to rewrite varying bits of software to make your life harder and harder, until you succumb to using an AV program and eliminate it. (Sometimes that's not enough, but that's not what this explanation is all about... LOL)

Ads are typically not viruses. Viruses typically are attached to good programs or, in the worst case, embedded into files that are a part of a larger mass (i.e. pieces of ISO files and such), and upon reconstituting the files into the original single mass, are read by your computer. Once this happens, the viruses tend to do all sorts of nasty things.

I have had the misfortune to locate a "blank page" Java-scripted webpage on a Yahoo! page. I tried a "print preview" and found that a border of about 30 or so pixels were visible around a totally white inset. These are more insidious than the typical viruses-- these tend to give the badpage coder more leeway into your computer-- and screw with much of whatever control you have.

This thread seems to be spiraling out of control over "Ads as Viruses"... I believe Baxslash, BatVink, Lucas Tiridath and JackDawson have explained the situation more than well enough for us to get back to the ideas at hand: Placing Advertisements into Free Versions of Games.

I totally agree about this kind of stuff, and BatVink did bring up an important point: ads in a racing game. The racetrack will contain:
1) barriers that are set along where the crowd will be placed;
2) billboards in the regions that are sparsely populated with buildings and bleachers; and
3) banners and signage on the buildings and across the roadways.

In order to get specific ads on these spaces, you're going to need:
1) a list of items that you might be able to get advertising for (i.e. spark plugs, tires (tyres), motor oil, fuel (petrol), tools, cold drinks (preferably soft drinks) and other such things);
2) a list of banner locations to place these ads;
3) a list of sizes and placements for each ad;
4) permission from advertisers (i.e. Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Dr Pepper, Edelbrock, Enkei, Hoosier, Yokohama, Michelin, Toyo, Bosch, AC Delco ...) to use their products in your game.

I am working on a design document for a street racing game. I want this type of in-game advertising. I have to contact these companies and ask for 'corporate sponsorship'; which, in turn, can bring investment monies to bear on the project. Remember never to undersell, but to oversell, your amount of ad-space and not to overprice those sales. A demo of what you have in mind goes a long way to ensure what you're trying to get across to them-- like a couple of racetracks and a about six vehicles-- and only use concept art for the "banners", "signage" and "billboards". The concept art can contain logos (like the Pepsi Globe, or the white on red Coca-Cola cursive script as 'placeholders' for the signs), though I would recommend only using simple texts in the concept art pieces. (Remember: you can create one piece of art for each size of 'signage' you're going to need, and craft a set number of pieces for each size.)

You may have to talk to these people several times, and make several appointments to meet with them, on a local, regional or national level, so be sure to have a viable demo with you. There's nothing that can get you out of a meeting faster than having an ad demo for their competitor's products. (Though it can be beneficial as they sometimes will think you've already signed their competition up, and can get a little more funding from the people you're meeting with. Sometimes even with a set of exclusive 'racetracks' featuring their products.)

As I said, it can be done, but there's a metric tonne of legwork to get in the door-- and if you're a new guy/studio-- it can be even more daunting. I have some people/friends I network with on Facebook and Twitter that I have asked to meet with for advice on such things. Sometimes you can find the advice from people you'd never think to ask...

Just some food for thought...

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