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Geek Culture / Matrix Revolutions Plot leak!

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Ian T
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 00:26
You quoted my comment, and it said 'some people'... so while you may not find it funny, TCA did, making the answer a 'yes' regardless of your (or my, I don't find it funny either) opinion... see what I mean

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
denki
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 00:46
Lol... I'll leave it here

[url][/url]
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 01:20
Quote: "I mean in what game (and oh dear God if there are examples of this then the world is more screwed up then I thought) can you make the two of the main characters sleep together?"

Didn't Leisure Suite Larry get close? GTA 3 also gets pretty close.


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TKF15H
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 01:40
Quote: "Nope. You're wrong. No matter what anyone says it was a bad movie."

brat. That's my OPINION, so it AIN'T wrong. Yours is.

All I'm trying to say is, the first matrix was an outstanding movie, while the second one wasn't as good. Because of this YOU are going too hard on it. Matrix Reloaded isn't that bad a movie. You just had your hopes set too high up.

Quote: "Jeez, when will people learn that stating opinions like that won't convince anyone?"

OK, so if it isn't opinions that tell if a movie is good or bad, then what is? You can't algorithimisize the judgement of weather a movie is good or bad. This is what you're doing:
"Hmm... No cars... Only one girl... The first was better... Hey! I have concluded that This SUCKS!"

The latest James Bond movie had lots of cars and girls yet that sucked.

Morfy's Law - Enythink thet ken go rong willll.
Cole's Law - Thinly sliced cabbage.
Ian T
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 01:54 Edited at: 19th Oct 2003 01:56
No, I completely disagree. I was expecting an even 6.5/10, slightly worse than the first, judging by trailers, previews, and the first movie. I was only slightly dissapointed. But just because something lives up to my expectations dosen't mean it was a good movie. It'd say it was an 'okay' movie, nothing more.

Furthermore, I did not say that is sucks (where are you getting this wonderful breed of unlogic from anyways). I said very clearly it was a 6.5/10.

What tells if a movie is good or bad? Watching it. You're entitled to your opinion but don't try to override people and say that you're right because you disagree.

On top of that, the first one wasn't any richer car or girl wise. I'm not that shallow-- what I was looking for was character development, and Zion; I was really interested in what Zion was like. We got very little of that.The party scene could easily have been cut to 2 minutes and made room for more details about the city.

The dialogue was also very poor. Just having Morpheus and the Oracle talk like mystics is fine, but making everyone else sound like sages/robots is pretty weird. Especially when it wasn't like that in the first movie. And the fight scenes were too long-- one long fight scene is great, two is excessive, three is insane. IMHO they should have cut the Burly Brawl down a bit, cut the highway chase down a LOT, and left the fight at the middle of the movie as the main longer battle, as it was the one that involved the introduction of a new character and thus by far the most important.

There... is that enough reasons to justify my individual opinion?

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
TKF15H
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 02:18 Edited at: 19th Oct 2003 02:19
Quote: " (where are you getting this wonderful breed of unlogic from anyways)"


From here:

Quote: "Nope. You're wrong. No matter what anyone says it was a bad movie."


A bad movie = movie that sucks, right?
and regarding this:
Quote: "don't try to override people and say that you're right because you disagree."

read the second quote again. You're overriding my opinion. If you're angry 'cause of:
Quote: "brat. That's my OPINION, so it AIN'T wrong. Yours is."

then don't be, I was kidding.

Morfy's Law - Enythink thet ken go rong willll.
Cole's Law - Thinly sliced cabbage.
Ian T
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 02:23
And you thought that '"Nope. You're wrong. No matter what anyone says it was a bad movie."' was serious?

Sarcasm is just lost on people these days...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Northern Fist
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 03:51
I just rented the DVD of Reloaded. I think it's better than most people think. Then again, it me - the martial arts freak - talking.

I would really hate an ending like that - I'm serious. I sure hope that they don't do that.
Conclussion: I'm a martix fan, but I'm not religious about it at all. My opinion of the movies will go down with an ending like that.

You see, here's what I liked about Reloaded:
1. The fights were great.

2. Oriental weapons!

3. SPECIAL EFFECTS!

4. The wierd characters added seasoning to the movies (ie. the Twins, Seraph, too many Smiths, Malvinchian (sp)).

5. The plot twisted and turned like the cars on the highway scene.

6. The dark/mysterious/different/etc. mood was well kept. (Dare I point out the emotional churning scene when Smith walks slowely through a flock of crows - it was disturbing symbolism but I can't put my finger on it.)

7. Music was good in my opinion (The orchestral score, not the punk crap in the credits). This also contributed to the mood.

8. It did, in fact, answer some questions - just not the way I expected it to (I like being out-guessed).

9. Did I mention the super-cool fight scenes.

10. Oh, there were also oriental weapons...

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
Dave J
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 04:00
Now I see why they marked this as Flamebait lol.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 04:14
What, am I the only person that thought that 2 was better than 1?

I think that (Someone familiar) is using another computer or something.LOL! With a different name....you guess!

How does this topic turn into a flame? Jeeeeeeez!

It's a really good film, I can't believe the bad critics.

Want bad computer graphics look at The HULK!

Pincho.
Ian T
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 07:16
If it's a really good film, then the critics are doing exactly what they're paid for

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Jess T
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 07:17 Edited at: 19th Oct 2003 07:17
Quote: "What, am I the only person that thought that 2 was better than 1?"


I thought that number 2 was GREAT! as good as, but not better than, number 1...

If there was no original Matrix, i would say that reloaded was the best movie out...

But number 1 for me was so original, it was so different and used such wierd twists to everything that i loved it!

But, The HULK never caught my eye, to me, that's just another comic-book-gone-movie to me...
It startd with The Phantom, then Spiderman, The Hulk, now League of Extrodinary Gentlemen... That genre is over-done...

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HZence
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 07:21
Quote: "Want bad computer graphics look at The HULK!"


Okay hotshot, you think of a better way to make a giant green monster look real and I'm sure universal or whoever made the movie will gladly give you a million dollars to make it happen.

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Ian T
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 07:39
What HZence said. IMO most people just think it looked fake because they had no idea how a giant green monster really would look.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
MushroomHead
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 14:39 Edited at: 19th Oct 2003 14:42
Quote: "If one of those are the ending ill be hosting my own personall "lobby scene" in the WB offices."


Hang on, weren't the matrix triology were filmed back to back 4 years ago? They certainly wont re-shoot the scenes again considering Keanu Reeves is thinking about leaving acting for good.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 14:54
You dont have to imagine what a giant green person would look like, you just have to imagine a Rhinoceros tinted green, and look at it straight on. Then you have the main look of the lighting etc. Put arms, and a head on it, and you have a good start. The Hulk is way too green, and the animation includes strange motion blur. The camera on the Hulk is wide angle, whereas the background uses a normal camera lense. Take a look at him swinging the tank around.. Wide-angle but the background is normal. Also the Hulk has a higher contrast to the background.

Pincho.
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 15:29
Some of the CGI in Reloaded was pretty awful - mainly the first fight between Neo and Agent Smith : When the camera spins around as the Smiths start walking & talking, a lot of the faces are distorted, bulbeous and generally the wrong shape.


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Killswitch
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 15:39
I think the reason why some people find TM2 worse than the original is because the second movie has a lot more deeper stuff in it and a lot more stuff related to computers etc. For example Simth is a virus, the never ending doors are the 'back doors' programs seem to put into their programs obessivly in films and so on. Most of my friends hated it becuase they saw it as an action film not as a computer/kung fu/meaning of life sorta film....

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
Dave J
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 16:08
Quote: "It startd with The Phantom, then Spiderman, The Hulk, now League of Extrodinary Gentlemen... "


I think you're missing Batman and X-Men.


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Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 16:15
Quote: "a God machine or something."


I havent seen Matrix2 yet but that was what I was thinking, kinda like some big AI machine thingy thats the "big brain" and controlls the whole matrix and the rules.

Well I guss we wont know what the end is till we see it wonder if there will be another thread like this one on how "bad" it was.

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Van B
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 18:08
I know how they could've done a better hulk... A man in a suit. It least it would have matched the lighting. It's not like the traditional technology to do it properly isn't there - just lazyness, as I've said before. Look at the visuals in Alien3 and Alien:Ressurection, The alien looked crap in Alien3 because it was computer generated, but they went back to puppetry in Ressurection and the Aliens look a helluva lot better, the only time they used CG heavily was when the aliens went swimming. Even the grotesque 'Ripley-clone-gone-bad' things were puppets. At the end of the day, why use a technique that does'nt fool the viewer? - I can spot computer models a mile off, so can everyone here, so I reckon they'd be better off letting the technology catch up.


Van-B

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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 19:12
Quote: "How does this topic turn into a flame? Jeeeeeeez!"
The chick in white who died in the first movie.

@ VanB: I agree completely, there are dozens of movies that I've seen use CG when tradsitional pupetry would have done wonders.


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Rob K
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 19:26 Edited at: 19th Oct 2003 19:29
I noticed on the credits at the end of the film that there is a "Young Thomas Anderson" one. There is no Young Neo in the movie, as they made Reloaded / Revolutions together, the credits could potentially have been combined - meaning that Young Neo does turn up in Revolutions. I'd be shocked if the ending was as lame as has been suggested though.

In the movie, the Architect does say that Neo is the 6th anomaly, so it is possible that Zion falls and the Matrix restarts from scratch.

kingius
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 22:37
"I mean in what game (and oh dear God if there are examples of this then the world is more screwed up then I thought) can you make the two of the main characters sleep together?"

The Sims
Rob K
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 01:31 Edited at: 20th Oct 2003 01:33
Quote: "IMO most people just think it looked fake because they had no idea how a giant green monster really would look."


Partly that - but mainly because the animation was absolutely laughable. The way the Hulk moves in the film just doesn't fit with his body. The music completely ruined any hope of entertainment as well. When the Hulk is running around smashing stuff up, there is a weird, straining arabic noise in the background.

Quote: "Some of the CGI in Reloaded was pretty awful -"


The only scenes which didn't work were the scenes where EVERYTHING was CGI. Such as the explosion on the truck or bits of the agent smith one. Keanu Reeves face becomes perceptably rendered, and the illusion is lost. Where the CGI was used well was in places like the chase scene, most of those cars Trinity was dodging between (the ones which went by in a blur) were CGI. The difference between CGI and reality is that real humans are littered with imperfections, small, but there. Hence when we see a perfect, flawless face with maybe the odd wrinkle here or there, it becomes obvious that what we are seeing is fake.

The trouble with Reloaded is that it just doesn't feel whole as a film.

The original Matrix had a good balance of action, dialog and so on. All these elements were linked together carefully and logically as well. It also had a balanced start, middle and end.

With reloaded, the "start" dragged on for 15 scenes. Most of the Zion scenes were not necessary or could have been made much shorter. Then the action scenes / dialog are very poorly linked, such as when he talks to the oracle, and then Agent Smith suddenly appears. Also, the directors seem to think that the only way to improve on the original Matrix was to add more people to the fight scenes and make them longer. Hence what is supposed to be an adrenalin rush fight scene gets a bit boring. The over-use of certain visual effects (slow mo / bullet time), annoys rather than impresses. The end is good however, and some of the characters introduced were good.
Reloaded is a good film, but it just goes to show that More capital <> Better Film.

Ian T
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 02:08 Edited at: 20th Oct 2003 02:09
Hmmm, I think the exploding truck was done rather well. Oh well.

My favorite part of the film was the Merovingian sequence. Medium-length, clear and clean battle sequence, best dialogue in the whole film, introduces 3 new characters (The Twins having no seperate personality traits makes them effectively 1) and develops them further, and it runs smoothly.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Dave J
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 13:37
For some strange reason I think Revolutions will have an open-ending that won't really explain anything but make you wonder like hell.

I hate those endings.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 14:25
Quote: "For some strange reason I think Revolutions will have an open-ending that won't really explain anything but make you wonder like hell."

Watch The Prisoner - that'll drive you nuts.


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Jess T
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 15:08 Edited at: 20th Oct 2003 15:09
Quote: "I think you're missing Batman and X-Men"


I did that on purpose... They had cartoons/shows made of them before the movies... I also excluded Superman for this reason also...

[EDIT] HOORAH! First post on the third page aswell as the second... I feel special [/EDIT]

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 15:12
To me, your halfway through the second page...


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Jess T
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 15:16
Damn you...!

Put your display limit to 40 and then we'll see who's special eh?

Yay! im the special one!

Knowledge Belongs To The People...
kingius
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 15:27
Ah, but Im the first poster, therefore Im more special, muhahaha
Jess T
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 15:31
NO! You're all against me... It's a damned conspiracy...
Arrrrggggggggg...

Excuse me... I'm just going to put a sh*t load of foil on my head, then I'm off to kill Bill Gate's Spies...

Have A Nice Day...

Knowledge Belongs To The People...
Wiggett
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 15:31
i havent read the spoiler and i dont intend to, nor have i read many posts in this thread, but i gota put my two cents in about matrix reloaded. UTTER POOP!. you know what made the first one good? not its nerdy interior story line but the fact it had the main features that every awesome 80s movie had. 1. a hero or group of heros. 2. a story that though may have been fantasmical, was still fun to watch.3. an ending where everything was good and humanity wins no matter what bullpoop loopholes may appear.

here is what number two had. 1. a group of people who were heros but now start questioning their abilities, wtf is that! you ended the first one being the buffest pirate out there then you start this new one as a pussy again. 2. trying to confuse your audience with all these bullcrap nerdom ideas about in theory this whole setup actually being true. Stop mixing all these ideas and ruining the movie.3. an ending that went ok so we have completely changed the whole ideals of the first movie, oh look we have run out of time so lets just finish it up the way it began and has run throughout the film, stupidly.

i think maddox sums it up best when he draws:

i mean really read his whole article on it if i cant convince you that it was totally stupid. now i forgot what else i was saying. but yeah, take a movie that was totally good and made you feel good after seeing it, and turn it into a totally sheet sequel where everything that happened in the first one basically gets contradicted in the second and then leave to set for about 1 screening untill all the people you let down start to realize that you don't know how to make a movie but know how to make money. BAM!

Arrow
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 17:42
Knothead...

A) the Wachowski brothers ARE geeks, they watch anime and kung-fu movies, they read comics, they play video games. They're geeks, how else do you think they came up with this stuff? How many jocks you know won an awards for making movies? Geeks think and use there amagination, they create good movies, leave them alone.

B) They wrote all three movies out at onces, in fact it was gonna be a comic book at first. It a much deeper plot than most movies ever go, so deal with it. If you're looking for a movie that doesn't requrer thinking, go watch "Bevis and Butthead do America"

If you don't like it, why are you posting in a thread about the movies?


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mog_squad
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 22:48
Heres some flamebait...

Matrix blows...

Now you can call this post flamebait.

Take note, I didnt say this, the evil monkey made me, and Im sorry...
so sorry....

DONT @$#%#@$% MESS WITH ME! I'll kupo your @$$!
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 22:50
Sure it wasn't The Sock making you say it ?


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Wiggett
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 09:26 Edited at: 21st Oct 2003 09:27
Quote: "A) the Wachowski brothers ARE geeks, they watch anime and kung-fu movies, they read comics, they play video games. They're geeks, how else do you think they came up with this stuff? How many jocks you know won an awards for making movies? Geeks think and use there amagination, they create good movies, leave them alone.

B) They wrote all three movies out at onces, in fact it was gonna be a comic book at first. It a much deeper plot than most movies ever go, so deal with it. If you're looking for a movie that doesn't requrer thinking, go watch "Bevis and Butthead do America"

If you don't like it, why are you posting in a thread about the movies?
"




a) serious, whoa man i would never have picked that. yes they did create a good movie, it's called the matrix. then they created a sh*te movie, it's called matrix reloaded, and i forsee another poor movie, it's gonna be called matrix revolutions. you know some geeks that created good movies, george lucas, stephen spielberg even, those guys make awesome movies, or atleast lucas did till he brought out the new star wars movies, so very very bad. People are forgetting what makes good movies these days, and in the second matrix movie, we see how a story is ruined when geeks get too technical with the story, hell i've written heaps of stories with a good start but then it gets technical in the middle so i scrap it and start again.

b) Oh well cause they have written all three movies pre making them i guess that must make my whole opinion invalid, slughead. It doesnt matter when they wrote them all that matters is it's crap. And i like movies that require thinking, i like many a range of movies including beavis and butthead do america, im a fan of the duo. But that doesnt mean i don't understand and enjoy movies like american history x or star wars (if you consider that as thinking cause its technical :/). Besides what is there to think about in the matrix reloaded, it's an action movie where nerds have stuffed it up by trying to make you think in ways that ruin their first hit movie.


I don't like it, i liked the first one, but i'm allowed to voice my opinion on the movies, which is why i have posted in this thread.

(and I said slughead in retalliation to knothead, if you don't pickup the movie i got mine from then what do you know about movies.)

Van B
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 11:18
It was a little Scottish geek that said it .

I reckon every director must be a geek at heart, it's only geeks that care enough to go through the process of making a movie, or even try and get it started.

One last word from me on Reloaded - the Architect, He annoyed me more than anything, all that exagerated language just sounded fake, anyone who ever spoke like that ended up with a bust face - I kept wondering why Neo did'nt just snap him, and finish it all.


Van-B

TKF15H
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 15:17
Did young Neo really appear in the credits?
'cause if he did, it makes sense. He did appear in matrix reloaded, but his part was so insignificant, its surprising they mentioned him...
In the scene where Neo is talking to the architecht, in the background, screens are showing clips of Neo's past. If young Neo really appears anywhere, it might as well be there...

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Jess T
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 15:38
Why doesn't everyone just wait till next month when its released, then rave about it and how great/crappy it was...

That'll make it easier than guessing...

But, i must admit, this topic was interesting to post on...


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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 18:05
Quote: "all that exagerated language just sounded fake"
Lol, he was fake, he an AI, of course it would sound fake to a human.

Uberwiggett, you missed the point. They didn't write out three movies, they wrote one big story, it's just spit into 3 chapters cuz the average movie goer doesn't wanna spend a good 6 hours on a single flick.


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Wiggett
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 18:11 Edited at: 21st Oct 2003 18:14
actually i like those long movies, look how many people sat through lotr :/. but wether they wrote it as one big story or not, they have done what i have, started out good, gotten crap int eh middle. unfortunately they havent seen the error of their ways and redone the middle till it was right


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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 18:32
I certainly had trouble staying awake during LOTR, but not Matrix Reloaded, the main reason is that LOTR has chatting with a little action, whilst Reloaded is the opposite.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 18:38
I can't watch LOTR I just absolutely hate it. That language that they speak drives me mad. It's like mechanical English. If they just changed the dialect I would watch it. I hate all this shakesperian accent. Shame too because I am a tolkien fan.

Pincho.
Jess T
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 18:46
Hmm, I only saw the first movie, and i don't want to see the second or any others.
Since i am a Pratchett fan (much like Tolkien, except with a great sense of humour) I find that the books leave more to the imagination and can allow you to create your own world inside your head, whereas, once it's on the screen, you can't imagine it any other way, That's how it will stay in your mind...

I am not meaning to sound nerdy here, but, In this case, The books are definately better than the movies...


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Van B
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 19:23
Arrow,
I know - but I was referring to the use of 'Visa-Vee' and all sorts of other pretentious crap that a computer would never say. There was far too much of a Frasier vibe for me.


Van-B

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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 00:43
I've met people who try to mimic something they like and go completelt over board, but yeah I know what you mean. Perhaps we get to se his head cave iun the the concultion.

The third movie will define wiether the second was crap, sounds batty but how often will you be reading a book or watch a show (mysteries are a great example) where nothing is making sence. Then the last puzzle peice falls into place all you revel in the glory of an elaberate plot. Once you know the full story you can gain satifaction with the interic parts.

I think most people hated it cause it left on one hell of a cliff hanger.


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Wiggett
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 05:09
nah i hated it cause therewas all this action for no reason, then they are all like look at me HAHA i will destroy you haha no, we must think now, fight! haha! yes show neo's butthole haha! fight!. it just really wasnt interesting, especially his butt.

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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 08:06
"They wrote all three movies out at once"

Not true. Original matrix script, revised, is dated 1997. Reloaded is dated 1999.

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