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Geek Culture / Windows 8 - Developer preview thoughts

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The Next
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 12:38
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Microsoft has just launched the developer preview, which I am playing with now.

What are everyone's feelings on the new OS from Microsoft. Good? Bad? No opinions?

Let me know because I'm undecided even when playing with it there are bits I love and bits I hate.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/home/

Mystic Mod - Putting the fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
Windows 7 Pro, AMD Phenom II X4 3.4Ghz, 8GB DDR3, ATI Radeon HD 4770 1GB, 2TB RAID-0 Hard disk
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TheComet
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 13:53
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I've only seen videos, and it looks incredibly gay. This whole "tablet" thing just doesn't fit with a desktop computer. There must have been a Gnome 3 developer involved...

TheComet

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bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 14:20
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I was just about to post about this

Unfortunately I don't have a machine that that will run it in a VM (no virtualization technology on my PCs )

I'll be testing it on my media center box as a dual boot option once they include media center in a release.


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The Next
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 14:53
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I have mine running in a virtual box machine with a tiny 780MB of RAM. I must say even with that amount of RAM it is very fast and nippy, which is one thing I love about it.

One thing I hate is that the Metro UI is in the way, I don't want that horrible UI in the way of me getting to my work. I work in programming and design programs that are based around being advanced. I don't want a simplified UI that I won't use. If it was a tablet I would be all for it but I want a feature to turn it off on my desktop, as it's not what I need from Windows at all.

Mystic Mod - Putting the fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
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bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 15:11
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I don't see myself using it either on my dev machine, but I'm very excited at the prospect of having that on my media PC though!


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The Next
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 15:29 Edited at: 14th Sep 2011 15:33
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Yes for a media machine amazing. But Microsoft needs to think about the corporate and developer areas. Those areas are a massive area for sales for Microsoft and they are at the moment totally cutting them out. IT teams won't want their staff playing with fancy tiles all the time, they want them on and doing work in their native windows applications. The most important area is business, if they cut out their silly metro UI and just give us the speed and stability features for business this will be amazing.

Windows 8 currently has no place in the corporate world.

Mystic Mod - Putting the fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 18:02
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The Windows desktop is available through one of the tiles in the Metro View. From what I've read, the normal desktop is very much like Windows 7.

Read about the two faces of Windows 8 here.

Brian.

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The Next
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 18:10
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It is still available I know, but the fact is they have put a horrible interface (for desktop use) over what we all know and love.

I don't want to load that Metro UI thing if all I'm going to do is close it every single time. This is also what nearly every single business will want to do as well.

Mystic Mod - Putting the fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 18:11
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The Metro UI just looks terrible for a desktop PC.

I dislike that getting to desktop as we know it will be through the use of a so-called "app".

Quote: "This whole "tablet" thing just doesn't fit with a desktop computer. There must have been a Gnome 3 developer involved..."


My thoughts exactly!

Why does every OS developer (except Apple, for the most part in this case) insist on making their OS have terrible interfaces that resemble smartphones? It just doesn't work!

I'm probably gonna stick with 7 for a long, long time.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 18:12
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I'm sure it'll work just like MCE, close it and don't have it start on boot. Really no big deal.


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The Next
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 18:18
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Well apparently it has been built into the kernel. If this is true then there is no hope of simply turning it off.

The fact that the Metro UI is also the login system this leads me more and more to this conclusion.

On another note when you do get to the desktop my start menu is gone and replaced by five ugly black buttons. I hate that I want a list of my applications and to be able to get to my computer, documents and so on not a crap menu that is impossible to use.

I have found myself lost so many times, with tasks that used to be really simple to perform. They have also said it works just as well with a mouse as with a touch interface. Well it really doesn't I cannot for the life of me get the charms to appear without causing something to move where I don't want it. Oh and the lock screen that must be unlocked my dragging upwards is hell with a mouse.

Mystic Mod - Putting the fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 18:33
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Microsoft has a history of not listening, but in the end it's the consumer who drives development. Vista got short cycled because no one wanted to use it, especially in the business community. If W8 is difficult to use, businesses will stick with W7 and Microsoft will have to scramble to get the next iteration of OS out the door.

I don't like my computer to assume how I want to use but it's still early in development. I don't think we'll see everything we're seeing now in the final release, and I have a feeling that the normal desktop will be easily available if not "the default" start-up option. Time will tell.

Brian.

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David R
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Posted: 14th Sep 2011 19:22
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I tried it in a VM with 2GB RAM and it was hit and miss

* It's fast

* There are now two control panels (the metro one and the one within the desktop environment, accessed via 'More settings' in the Metro one). If they don't remove the legacy one before release I can see this being a real dog of an OS. Imagine the confusion it would cause trying to explain something to someone else

* Icons are reused in different places with confusing effect. For example, 'Settings' has a cog and so does control panel. Clearly they're using cogs because they suggest configuration, but because the former is on the start menu you actually assume it's going to be taking you to control panel... and it isn't

* I'm not sure what the start menu is any more. Is start the tiles or is the menu in the lower left? Is the lower left supposed to global or the current application?

Overall I think it's interesting and definitely refreshing to see them trying to mix things up a bit. The problem is I can see there being some negative backlash to this DP and MS getting scared and turning metro etc. into a glorified overlay instead (a la Windows Media Center in Vista). The thing is, to improve they need to make even more radical changes. The legacy/desktop needs neutering in favour of the metro half of the OS - keeping both halves is going to make for a confusing mess (interested to see what they do with the two control panels issue)

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 15th Sep 2011 00:56
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Quote: "Why does every OS developer (except Apple, for the most part in this case) insist on making their OS have terrible interfaces that resemble smartphones? It just doesn't work!"


I guess they all want to hop on the same bandwagon, I mean Apple has been making simplistic UI's forever, more aimed at the less technical to appeal to the younger generation. I mean Apple stuff sells, even though it's far more detailed and powerful then Linux/PC. Why wouldn't someone who wants to be young and hip buy the newest and sleekest product versus something super technical.

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The Next
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Posted: 15th Sep 2011 01:12
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I really hope the decide to make at least a nice easy way of turning of metro UI totally. I don't like it, I hate Windows phone and hate the idea of having that on my desktop.

It will be blanked by everyone except the tablet market, which will force Microsoft to change back anyway. The Desktop we all know and love won't be replaced with the Metro UI.

Mystic Mod - Putting the fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
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IanM
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Posted: 15th Sep 2011 01:20
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Quote: "Well apparently it has been built into the kernel."

I can't believe that's true. That's like saying explorer is a part of the kernel, which it isn't.

They'd just take explorer, put all of the non-UI functionality into separate loadable modules, then modify a copy into the new interface (the modules being used by each 'shell' program so that they'd operate in the same way under the hood).

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Airslide
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Posted: 15th Sep 2011 02:31 Edited at: 15th Sep 2011 02:33
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I love the Metro UI. It looks nice and smooth, has little clutter, the things you need to see are easy to see right away and it doesn't require high-end hardware.

Quote: "The Desktop we all know and love won't be replaced with the Metro UI."


What, no love for the DOS prompt?

EDIT:

Quote: "I've only seen videos, and it looks incredibly gay."


I rather hope you are using that in the colorful, happy sense and not in a derogatory way that might offend someone...
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Inspire
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Posted: 15th Sep 2011 03:16
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I'm an Apple guy, but deep down inside of me, I like Windows 7. This, on the other hand, is different...

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 15th Sep 2011 04:51
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Quote: "Quote: "I've only seen videos, and it looks incredibly gay."

I rather hope you are using that in the colorful, happy sense and not in a derogatory way that might offend someone..."


Trollolol

Honestly, why bring it up, and why does it have to be offensive?

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Wolf
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Posted: 15th Sep 2011 07:20
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I still use XP... until I painfully have to give it up for a dirty 64 bit windows system. Until the dinosaur fossil that it is finally breaks in my harddrive.

Matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively Theres no such thing as death,life is only a dream,and were the imagination of ourselves.
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Airslide
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Posted: 15th Sep 2011 08:30
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Quote: "Honestly, why bring it up, and why does it have to be offensive?"


Probably because I'm tired of hearing it, but you're right, bringing it up is probably unhelpful.
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 15th Sep 2011 20:07 Edited at: 16th Sep 2011 02:43
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Quote: "it looks incredibly gay"

I'll be buying it then

I'm still fine with my vista, actually I'm not changing any time soon.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 16th Sep 2011 00:57 Edited at: 16th Sep 2011 00:58
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Vista isn't bad. I don't really know why everyone hates it so much. That being said I did wait until Service Pack 1 came out.

I must say Windows 8 looks like a mess in it's 'traditional' desktop mode. Either get rid of the Aero look or utilize it completey. The colored boxes thing looks good, but awful when combined with Aero.

As a tablet, Windows 8 looks pretty sweet, and the traditional desktop feature is cool in that sense too. Makes me wonder if you could do PC games on future Windows tablets?

As a desktop OS I think it will fail miserably unless you're somehow a fan of the HP TouchDumb, I mean "smart".

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 16th Sep 2011 01:41
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I'm not sure how I feel about Windows 8. I don't really like the idea of a computer having a tablet interface. But maybe it will work out in the end.

But like Xplosys said, even if Windows 8 is a fail, it won't take Microsoft too long to pump out the next OS lol.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 16th Sep 2011 02:22 Edited at: 16th Sep 2011 02:25
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I think they just need to stick with a separate OS for PC's. I don't mind if they go for a more unified look. Honestly I think Aero is starting to look as dated as the default XP theme. They really ought to just stick with Windows 7 as base, open it up for more customization with 'apps' and other UI features, much like the Vista sidebar did. Make it more dynamic. Leave the start button, but don't force people use it. Integrate fancy features like popup utilities via a keyboard shortcut (like a "launchpad" overlay with application shortcuts, search, etc. Almost like a separate desktop that can popup over your open application), docks, taskbars, sidebars, better window layout customizations, etc. Make the PC more accessible for PC users. This tablet stuff on the PC is nice looking and all, but ultimately it's not going to be successful as it's not overall productive. They need to take the productive parts and integrate them into the familiar, easily accessible, classic Windows interface.

My biggest gripe with Microsoft is the liberty they take in locking down the default look of Windows these days. Back in 95 it was the bomb. You could change all the colors and fonts. Now you can change the color of your window borders and they're washed and muted because they're see through. Windows skinning sucks. You have to hack the registry or use some extra program that runs in the background. OPEN IT UP. Let us choose the colors we like. XP was atrocious and we were given 3 awful color themes to choose from. Microsoft has always had a poor art direction. I think they just leave it to the programmers. They assume we all like that hideous baby blue that is all over the windows/ribbons of their office products. It's so bad to look at.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 16th Sep 2011 02:37
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Quote: "Vista isn't bad. I don't really know why everyone hates it so much. That being said I did wait until Service Pack 1 came out.
"

exactly!


Why does blue text appear every time you are near?
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AutoBot
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Posted: 16th Sep 2011 04:46 Edited at: 16th Sep 2011 04:50
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If MS just makes the whole Metro feature just an optional extension then I'm all for Windows 8. Although if they're going to force it into my face with no means of disabling it then I'll hate it. Metro really belongs on tablets only, IMO.

Quote: "My biggest gripe with Microsoft is the liberty they take in locking down the default look of Windows these days. Back in 95 it was the bomb. You could change all the colors and fonts. Now you can change the color of your window borders and they're washed and muted because they're see through. Windows skinning sucks. You have to hack the registry or use some extra program that runs in the background. OPEN IT UP. Let us choose the colors we like. XP was atrocious and we were given 3 awful color themes to choose from. Microsoft has always had a poor art direction. I think they just leave it to the programmers. They assume we all like that hideous baby blue that is all over the windows/ribbons of their office products. It's so bad to look at."

I'll have to agree with this. Then again Apple's OSX isn't too good with it either.

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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 16th Sep 2011 14:17
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See if DBPro runs well on it. That's obviously the most important consideration.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 01:46
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Quote: "I'll have to agree with this. Then again Apple's OSX isn't too good with it either."


Nope, but I think it's safe to say they do a better job of designing a neutral looking OS that can visually fit anyone pretty well with a simple wallpaper change.

http://lossofanonymity.wordpress.com
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Crazy Acorn
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 08:16
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How about we say "Forget Apple and Microsoft!" As a forum we should make our own! Who's with me!

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xplosys
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 15:01
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Yes! Well make our own OS and we'll code it in DBPro!

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 17:16
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Crazy Acorn is crazy.

If I want an OS that isn't compatible with anything good I'll just switch to Linux



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Nickydude
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 19:07
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Well, looks like Microsoft has 'dropped the soap' in the 'Apple' prison...

Microsoft drops Flash from IE on Windows 8 tablets.

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
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sprite
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 23:00
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Quote: "Well, looks like Microsoft has 'dropped the soap' in the 'Apple' prison...

Microsoft drops Flash from IE on Windows 8 tablets.
"


He he looks like it. Wonder what the apple haters will do now maybe shank an apple user?

On an adult note it looks like they taken the same view as apple and decided to push html 5 over using flash.

I'll add something later on.
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That Guy John
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Posted: 19th Sep 2011 16:39 Edited at: 19th Sep 2011 16:42
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I have already downloaded the installer, but haven't installed yet.
If I install it do I lose my current programs and settings or does it dual boot by default?

edit: Just double checked and it says you can install the preview without the developer tools and keep all files and settings. Bummer, I need to build another scrap rig to horse around with.

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dab
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Posted: 19th Sep 2011 17:29
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I can see the direction they want to go. I'm just hoping the Developer preview isn't as far as they're going and they're now working on bug fixes. It seems like they're trying to integrate the 2, but what they really have right now are 2 separate interfaces. I found it confusing to have 3 different types of control panels. 1 that did everything, and 2 that didn't do quite everything.

I also didn't like how you couldn't easily go Back. I didn't find that option. Then again I didn't spend a whole lot of time on it. It isn't a bad idea, but I have a feeling it will be sent out half baked.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2011 00:23
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Well. I've gone and done it. I'm now running Windows 8 exclusively. I couldn't get it to install in VM so I figured ah screw it, I need a reformat anyway. So far I love it. The whole start menu thing I need to get used to, but I'll adjust.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2011 00:39
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Quote: "He he looks like it. Wonder what the apple haters will do now maybe shank an apple user?"


Suffer my gloating? But I bet you people aren't gonna start screaming tantrums and that MS sucks over this information though.


Windows 8 seems rather odd, however, it could work if it's ergonomic and sensibly set out. To be honest OSX already has implemented a 'touch device' like interface and from what I've seen it works well, so as long as MS are sensible about how they've designed it then who knows, it could be a useful feature and no doubt there will be the option to turn off anything undesirable.

I suspect I'll be testing out the beta when it's released.

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