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Geek Culture / just picked up an xbox, stupid thing...

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Mazz426
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Posted: 24th Sep 2011 13:08
Hey everyone,
I was hoping that someone out there might be able to give me some insight into my issue. Last week I decided to pick up an xbox, set up my account and struggled to get it connected initially, took about 40 mins to get it to connect to xbox live. Then after that inital connection it has been unable to connect to xbox live at all.
It claims that its unable to obtain an IP address from my router but following all of their support details has had no success; it's odd as all my other devices connect without any issue.
I'm planning on calling them but if they're unable to help I was thinking that someone here may know what the problem is, thanks.

Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 24th Sep 2011 13:16 Edited at: 24th Sep 2011 13:18
this IS an xbox 360 right?
xD

check this list:
http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live/get-started/connecting/network-hardware-compatible-xbox-live
if your router's not on it, then all that customer support will say is "good luck". (of course they'll TRY and help with all the standard unplug/plug in your router things)

[edit]
if I'm on-spot then this will be one of the fastest diagnosis of a hardware problem this forum has ever seen!


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Mazz426
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Location: Edinburgh
Posted: 24th Sep 2011 13:29 Edited at: 24th Sep 2011 15:13
thanks for that Neuro, one problem, those are american makes am i correct? I sould have pointed out that I'm in the UK and yes it's a 360

Just checked, the maufacturer of mine isnt on there (Inventel), guess that's the problem, it's odd as my computer, ipod and ps3 have no issues with it. Oh well, been meaning to get it replaced for a while, its easily 4 - 5 years old.

Thanks, and yes, fastest diagnosis on these forums

EDIT
it's now working
,anaged to get help from my isp's technical support and i'm ready to go, anyone up for some horde on gears of war 2 / 3 or some halo reach?
my gamertag is SoiledSnake127

bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Sep 2011 15:17
that's probably not the problem. Those are just the brands microsoft will help you with. Have you tried using a cable you know works?


Mazz426
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Posted: 24th Sep 2011 15:21
Jerico2day@
its now working, i editted my last post
i just had to perform a complete / factory reset on my router and its now working fine,
as said before if anyone wants to have a game just add me or post your gamer thing here

Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Sep 2011 19:01
Is it a used or refurbished model? If so, I'd take it back. I've gotten a used one that couldn't obtain an IP. I think the jack or the NIC was bad.

http://lossofanonymity.wordpress.com
Oolite
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Location: Middle of the West
Posted: 24th Sep 2011 20:18
The old router (before my new shiny sky one) had major trouble with my 360 connecting. It wouldn't correctly assign each device it's own IP.
I just set up a static IP and manually edited the settings on my 360 and it never failed. I know this has been solved but if there are any more problems then give that a try.
Thraxas
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Posted: 25th Sep 2011 00:53
I added you. I'm up for some Gears 3. My gamertag is MattMcD1978

MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 01:33
thats why I never use cheap routers... they NEVER WORK!

I am still loving my slightly dated CISCO LINKSYS gigabit router... word of advice... dont spend less than £90 on a new router!

And if gaming often, get a static IP, it helps reduce lag somewhat or so I heard... it just makes for better gaming really...

Oh and hosting your own games ie, you being the host computer gets a lot easier.

Oolite
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 03:18
Quote: "word of advice... dont spend less than £90 on a new router!"

I have a router, cost around 60 quid. Generally cuts into wood just as good as the rest of them. Whilst power is important in the actual router itself, a lot of it is to do with having good quality bits to put onto it.
MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 03:26
Quote: "Quote: "word of advice... dont spend less than £90 on a new router!"
I have a router, cost around 60 quid. Generally cuts into wood just as good as the rest of them. Whilst power is important in the actual router itself, a lot of it is to do with having good quality bits to put onto it. "


Well, £90 being a rule of thumb >.<, but you got the point, yeah make sure its built on good quality and of quality parts.

bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 12:44 Edited at: 28th Sep 2011 12:47
Quote: "And if gaming often, get a static IP, it helps reduce lag somewhat or so I heard... it just makes for better gaming really..."


I guess it could reduce the latency caused by processing requests on the router itself (if you disable nat on your internal network and assign that IP to your PC directly and skip the router, which is kind of dumb). It would probably only shave off a millisecond or two though. And actually, that would be nothing to do with static/vs dynamic ip.

So actually, no that's probably not true at all. DHCP wouldn't be necessary though, so you wouldn't need to negotiate when you first turn on your modem.

I agree on spending good money on a router though. 90 pounds is probably overkill for most people though. I spent 80 usd (51 pounds) on mine and am absolutely in love with it.


Oolite
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 14:52
Quote: "Well, £90 being a rule of thumb >.<, but you got the point, yeah make sure its built on good quality and of quality parts.
"

I think you missed my joke mate.


On a serious note, £90 is definitely too much for a personal use router. I'm sure big companies probably expect a little more from a router so they might stretch a bit further. Saying that though, companies are usually looking to save costs wherever so it would be detrimental to company funds to spend 130 quid on 100 different routers across the office.
bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 15:30
A small company would probably have one expensive router and as many switches as needed.

Companies are normally willing to spend bank on a good router, because if their router fails they can't do anything. I would imagine most small business would probably want to use low-end professional grade cisco routers/switches.

Not only does a good router stay up and running, it'll allow for more than just what you use in your household. It can provide vlans, ACLs, simple ways to create site to site links without adding a server, QoS, sometimes built-in vpn, multiple paths to the internet (connecting 2 different service provider modems/links, for example).

Now, a super small office with 6 guys, well, they probably buy some cheapo router, but any business where money starts draining away if the internet is down, will have a nice router.


MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 15:31 Edited at: 28th Sep 2011 15:34
I forgot to mention, I am a business >.<, but yeah

and yes! setting a static LAN routing to a computer really does shave quite a lot actually off the ping, I get 3 ping shaved off usually its 25 but I get 22ping from my closest server near Manchester.

EDIT

Speaking of multiple providers, I am looking into LINE BONDING for my new shop soon. but I will have just the one propvider which I know is a bad idea but i would rather spend the extra they are chaeging and get them to honor their SLA and get rid of the extra head ache of managing the dang thing... Double Broadband rate yes please... yet I am still trying to figure out how a static ip across 2 seperate lines works...

Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 16:04
Quote: "and yes! setting a static LAN routing to a computer really does shave quite a lot actually off the ping, I get 3 ping shaved off usually its 25 but I get 22ping from my closest server near Manchester."


If that's the case, you need a better router.



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MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 16:08
I dont get you benj, ping is based on your distance from the exchange plus this shoddy house line is totally pathetic, anyways I am moving to my shop soon!!! its estimated the link speed there is much better... gotta love commercial areas for their busines grade services >.<

bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 16:08
Quote: "yet I am still trying to figure out how a static ip across 2 seperate lines works..."


That's possible. If I send a packet to your server, at some point my traffic is split up against two different paths that converge again at your location.

It could also be setup so that it only follows one path (the faster path), unless it goes down, then it takes the slower path.


MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 16:11
hang on, NS1 NS1? right?

two different urls, redirecting to two ip's ahhhh I think I got it now!!! cheers, if not keep it flowing >.<

Since the OP has resolved the issue, I think its ok this thread takes this slightly off topic course no? if not sorry its just taken flow now...

bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 16:38 Edited at: 28th Sep 2011 16:43
Not sure what you mean. It's not really related to DNS or urls.

It's more under the hood. It's with packets from one point going to another point. (Your computer to your server, for example. It's kind of like two different roads to the same destination. If you're two people, you can take the same, faster path, or diverge on two different paths but you both end up at the same point.

The routers that make up the internet determine if your packets take the faster route or split up to different routes. The routers determine if there will be two routes to your location or just one. (If you're paying for two lines, here's hoping you're actually getting it split a bit up-stream and not on the last mile A tracert could help tell you if/when the split occurs, but bear in mind a route could change paths at any time, there could be a couple or a hundred different paths to a particular location)


MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 16:44 Edited at: 28th Sep 2011 16:46
HEY WHAT TH? what happened there... think i just found a forum bug

EDIT

EDIT

urm... well one line has its own IP and the other its own too... when bonding them together... you have 2 ip's one for each... so if a user comes to the destination via one line... their access speed will be the speed of that one line... I want the combined upload speed... if you follow... this is confusing...

Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 17:07
Quote: "I dont get you benj"


What I meant was, if it's taking your router 2-3ms to find your address in its routing table it's not very fast.



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MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 17:10
oh well... networking is ot my frte I confess , any tips or pointers?

bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 17:12
Yeah, it can get confusing. It doesn't really work that way though.

Say you have 2 lines. The ISP gives you a dedicated IP for each that you assign to your router on each line. On the end device (say, a server), you have a 3rd dedicated IP.

Your router that connects the two lines togeter forward traffic from the two lines to the internal server IP. So if I request data from your internal server, it can take either route and your end router forwards the traffic to the same end-device.

Your ISP must also setup forwarding rules for your end device's IP. They can set it up to allow traffic to split amongst the two lines.

Now, it sounds to me like you don't have your own IP for the internal device, and you're using two different providers, so you probably can't get a single IP that you can share with your two providers. (Maybe you can, you'd have to talk to them). It sounds like you only have two IPs for each line. This can't be shared to make a single connection that shares bandwidth.

What you are probably doing is setting up DNS to randomly pick which IP the visitor will be accessing to get to your site. The visitor would be stuck with the bandwidth of just that one line.

If you wanted to get a dedicated IP that your server would use, that your routers would forward traffic to, and that your ISPs would split the traffic to, well, I don't really know how that can be purchased or if an ISP generally offers that kind of service. You'd have to call your ISP to find out.

I do know that for services like DSL and fiber lines, you can choose your own ISP and you just lease the line. A service like that, where you can choose the ISP, could probably hook you up with a split, but shared, line. So you'd lease a line from two companies but have one ISP that gives you an IP address that can take the paths of both lines.

This is kind of pushing what I know. I know the underlying mechanics but I don't have any experience in actually ordering this kind of thing.


MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 17:25 Edited at: 28th Sep 2011 17:25
I dont have it yet, but you can see my confusion here, the company I will take it out with soon... I am going to get their pro package for the time being... need that upload limit from 1.3 to 2.5 lifted...

https://www.bethere.co.uk/web/beportal/linebonding

they do not have it available yet.

bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 17:33 Edited at: 28th Sep 2011 17:40
Yeah, they require two BT phone lines. This means it's the ISP offering the service. Contact your ISP directly and you can probably do this for a lot less.

You don't need a specialized box, all you need are two modems (or interfaces for your router that can accept the line) and a router with an interface for each line and your internal network that you have control over (not like, ports on a switch/router combo box, but 3 interfaces on a real router).


bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 17:43 Edited at: 28th Sep 2011 17:44
I should point out, the price does look good, and they probably have good equipment, but you won't solve the problem of redundency with this solution. You have to pick which is more important, two lines from two companies at half the bandwidth, or two lines from the same company with double the bandwidth, but more likely to go down.

Also, like I mentioned, it may be possible to do this with two different ISPs and getting one static IP that both can forward to you (and thus give you double the speed), you'd have to contact your ISP directly to ask.

Anyway, the whole idea may be a bit silly, because once you get real traffic to your network, the lines would be saturated enough that no single user would see double the bandwidth.


MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 19:29
what ISP?... [oh yeah its a new premises I will have BT installing a new line soon...] urm I wonder if one of the lines will support calling features... hey this eans i will have 2 phone numbers to my shop... awesome

the ISP will be... bethere.co.uk

They ARE the ISP...

in regards to redundancy... it says their service will drop back to single line while the one line is recovered.

but this doesnt really answer the original question...

how dows the singular IP work and will it utilise the dual connection upload?

for the rest its going to be for gaming mainly that the external IP will be used... and for the others asking... no I will not have a server hosted on site... at least not for now... not until I get a larger premise... and no BT will not be my ISP, Bethere.co.uk will supply the internet... but yeah that does beg the question... what if THEIR service goes down lol >.<

Anyway I really appreciate the feedback on this and a mega thank you to jerico as well as the rest of you

bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 19:51
Right, ok. So almost certainly it will utilize both lines for bandwidth simultaneously.

It works because an IP is not line dependend. The routers that make up the internet forward traffic to lines that it knows can get to your end device. So two lines = two paths that traffic will take. It sounds like your ISP will indeed split traffic to both lines evenly.

When one line goes down, the ISP's routers adjust themselves to send all traffic to the working line.

You will have some redundency, but it's much better to have different ISPs which connect to different trunks which run to your building on different lines, if at all possible. Obviously this would probably be much more expensive.

What you'll have with be is two lines probably getting split off on the last mile, so if the isp goes down at the connection point (i forget the name, it's where your phone lines go to get connected to the rest of the network) goes down, your internet goes down.


MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 19:56
Quote: "What you'll have with be is two lines probably getting split off on the last mile, so if the isp goes down at the connection point (i forget the name, it's where your phone lines go to get connected to the rest of the network) goes down, your internet goes down.
"


as the lines are dependent on BT, if this happens, there is little two ISP's can do...

Thank you for bringing some light on this topic, I feel a little lighter now, Super Thanks Jerico

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