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Geek Culture / Video Game Degrees

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Lord Herakles the Great
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Posted: 17th Jan 2012 23:09
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I've been making a game on my own in DarkGDK, but I've also been doing some classes at a local university, the kinds of classes that I'll need to do no matter what degree program I end up working toward.

Personally, I don't think a degree in making games is worth as much as actual experience of making games on my own. But my parents insist that I have some sort of degree as a backup in case that doesn't work.

I've looked at several schools offering game design degrees, and a lot of them seem very gimmicky. Does anyone here have any suggestions? It has to be an online program, because I'm pretty sure there aren't any universities that offer game design degrees that aren't crap anywhere near where I live. And moving to the other side of the country isn't an option for me.

Formerly known as Housewares
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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 02:52 Edited at: 18th Jan 2012 02:54
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Well moving across cyberspace might be a bit of a challenge... perhaps help in your location so others may be bothered to scour the university websites for you just maybe...

Umm I rarely know of any online courses but did you try google?

Personally from what I know... they prefer you with experience... a degree means nothing these days aside from applying for visas... silly system...

Did you try applying anywhere? give it a shot and if they do hit you with the paper attack move then continue the search...

EDIT

Make sure you have a portfolio of your works no matter how small... be it a simple pong game with custom textured in 3D to aa pacman remake they want to see what you are capable of...

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 04:19
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This kind of info will be useful for me as well as I know little of this matter. Been thinking of also taking them schools for a while now.

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Lord Herakles the Great
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 06:15
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I've done some Google searching, but I only found the "advertising" pages for these degree programs, which will obviously try to portray themselves in the best light possible. I was hoping there would be someone who has some experience with this sort of thing that could give me some examples of degree programs that are worthwhile and which ones to avoid.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 06:55
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Avoid all of them they just want your money

but on a serious note most people do a CompSci [Computer Science] Degree ... it is the basic basis... that they look for... maybe that will hit it for you¿

rough guess... try the Open University...

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greenlig
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 07:14
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I was one of the first students in Australia to start our first dedicated Bachelor of Game Design. In my opinion, it wasn't a complete waste of time, but not because of the degree itself. Immersing yourself in the development culture is the key to all these things. If you want to be a cog in the AAA machine, study animation, computer science, or some art stream. To really be a game designer, however, takes practice. Lots and lots of practice.

The best thing I ever did was enter the 48 Hour Game Making Competition in Brisbane, Australia. Two days of non-stop game making. Pure bliss, and met a heap of good people. Find your local IGDA chapter, if you have one, and get along to their meetings. See if there is a Global Game Jam set up near you and attend. It's all worth it.

The best place in the world to study all this is, in my opinion, Carnegie Mellon University. They are one of the most forward thinking establishments on the planet, and if you can secure a spot there, you really will learn.

Go to TIGsource, Indie Games, and those sort of sites. Immerse yourself in the culture! Create! That is how you get the right education.

Greenlig

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nonZero
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 08:05
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Quote: "Avoid all of them they just want your money"

Yes, avoid anything that resembles an advert online.
Actually, avoid anything online period - execpting established communities & websites of tertiary educational institutes.

Quote: "Personally, I don't think a degree in making games is worth as much as actual experience of making games on my own."

Your portfolio is your most powerful weapon, yes.

My advice, do a normal correspondence course (ie you pay the fees, collect your books, do the work, sometimes pay your exam fee, and write your exam and get your lil' old bit of paper) through a well-established and internationally recognised institute. I know it's a little (okay a lot) pricey but it's way more worth it than something like a certificate from www.[insert name].com who don't even have a proper head office.

I also really think that you need to have a more generalised programming degree of sorts and, if possible, a computer hardware-related degree/certificate too. The reason being is it'll open more doors than just game design. It's a tough market to crack into game design if you're looking to make money. At least this way you'll still have the software industry in general to fall back on as well as working in companies that use their own custom systems. And even if you wind up in an office of 60 people crammed into cubicles, coding stuff for Microsoft, at least you're building your resume. Meanwhile in your free time, make freeware games and apps, join indie projects for free and get your name out there. This all goes to building that all-important "experience". Once you have a massive portfolio, I think you'll be able to get where you need to go, still have the security of a generalised degree and make the parents happy.


Of course this is just my advice based on where I live (RSA). Things may be different where you reside so I think doing a proper investigation of the whole situation in your state/country is very important too. So approach smaller companies (The huge ones prolly won't give you the time of day), try and get an appointment and ask them what they look for. I know this kind of initiative is sometimes a problem (I was too shy to do this back in high school. I did my job-shadowing through a friend of a friend coz I couldn't even approach the local cafe, lol) but it will benefit you and it might even impress somebody enough to leave an impression on them which may, in turn, count in your favour when job hunting.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 12:57
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It is possible to do a degree from home, but personally I think the college/University environment is beneficial, particular in having more interaction with a tutor, but of course I understand that not every situation permits people studying on a campus. If you can, I'd recommend it.

For these Game Design degrees, you have to be careful, now, I'm not going to claim they're ALL a load of hooey, but a number of them are and there's a trap in that respect. My University had a Games Programming Degree, which was 2 years study, 1 year work placement then a final year of study and I had friends on that course. They were really engaged with the game development process and learned to program using industry standard tools. From the sounds of it they had a pretty decent course and as a result one of my friends did manage to land a job at Lionhead Studios.

The alternative to 'Games Programming' or 'Games Design' is 'Computer Science' and that's an option a lot of people take and it's probably a more rounded degree. Games Programming is a little more specialist and one of the troubles of doing a special course is that you're narrowing your options to your speciality. 'Computer Science' + 'Games Programming hobby' could be a viable option. But I am basing my info on observation and listening to people and not through experience, so obviously if in your position I would value any comments from experienced people over mine. Jeku used to work for EA...so I'm dropping him in it there, but normally he has useful advice when these threads are made.


However, I am not going to say it will guarantee you a success in doing it, but a degree is a foot in the door and there are employers out there who'll see a degree as a requirement, if anything it shows discipline and that you know what you're talking about. Then add the fact you do it as a hobby - that's a bonus, if you've got any completed projects, that's another bonus because they show that you're enthusiastic about that kind of work and a completed project shows your dedication too.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 15:15
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There are a lot of scams out there, and the people promising the most tend to be the least legitimate. If you find something that looks reasonable and covers the disciplines you're interested in then I'd say go for it. No learning is a waste of time, I wouldn't worry about whether this is something that will get you a job but more whether it would be of benefit to you. If it improves your ability then it will help you towards making games for a living. I think these courses are probably more beneficial to indie developers than people trying to get hired by established companies, but I've only glanced over a few courses.
You sound strongly independent but remember that you're going to have to work with others at some point and the habits you've developed while learning on your own may not be compatible with working in a group.

Join DNG today! We are a game development team open to all. Visit our Headquarters to learn more.
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lazerus
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 15:23
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If you live in the UK Go here;

The University of Hertfordshire, BA & MA Games Art course.

Polycount thread showing off work and details.

I'll say this simply, if i had known about this course when i looking for mine i would have went there hands down. I would have had to move, live with random people miles from home but flat out i would have gone.

The work produced speaks for itself.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 15:32
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lol, my Mum went to that University. She did illustration and from what I've seen and heard, it's fantastic for art in general with decent facilities. However, the course is directed at Game Art, which of course is different to games programming, but of course the choice is there.

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Lord Herakles the Great
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Posted: 19th Jan 2012 01:55
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Thanks for all the input. After weighing all my options, I've decided to go for a Computer Science degree. It seems like a much safer option than risking time and money on a game-specific one that may or may not be worthwhile.

Formerly known as Housewares
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Dazzag
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Posted: 19th Jan 2012 10:03
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Yep. We used to throw out all CVs that didn't have CS as a degree. It didn't matter what else they did. Ok we weren't a game software house (travel software house) but I have a lot of programmer mates and pretty much everywhere a CS degree is a constant, including one or two that are in game software houses.

As there isn't a standard "game" degree then obviously there can't be a standard to check against. You know what you are dealing with (as an employer) with a CS degree. Plus what happens if a standard game degree is sorted out in the future and agreed as the highest qualification for game programming? Is your previously completed game degree the same one? No? Then you are stuffed. You might be better than the CS guy (just because of the degree even) but companies don't have the time and money to filter out the duffs. A CS degree does that for you more than any other (as in most known about to the industry) basically. And, as said before, it covers you for non-game programming jobs too.

Cheers

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Quik
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Posted: 19th Jan 2012 12:28
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Game specific one... as in gaming overall?

I personally am planning to go into a art school, 3d to be specific after i finish high school..

But i cant for the life of me see the ebnefit in "learning everything", isnt it better to focus on one area?
Programming, designing, etc?


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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Dazzag
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Posted: 19th Jan 2012 14:14 Edited at: 19th Jan 2012 14:15
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It's not a matter of learning everything or focusing on one area (if it's important you will learn on the job - programming wise there is hardly anything I learnt in college that helped with my first job as I already knew what I needed or I learnt the specific stuff on the job). It's about getting an interview. You can put your eggs in one basket and focus on one thing, or do a CS degree which allows you to be at least considered for any programming job interview really. If a company insists on an exact specific degree then fine you missed that one, but compared to the *vast* majority of programming jobs then is it worth it? If you want to focus more on one thing then mix CS with something else. My friend for example knew she was going to go to Germany after college so did CS with German. Looks better on your CV too, although is more work.

At the end of the day *most* jobs won't even let you have an interview unless you have a CS degree (and then a lot of the time an IQ test to pass before you are even allowed to see anyone). So no showing them how good you are really and hopefully getting a chance in the majority of cases. It does happen, just is very rare. These days especially companies want to get the best ratio of good people compared to sacking new people after their trial period. The more people they take a chance on (even to just take time to interview considering there are hundreds of applications every month) then the more failures they will get. It's all about money, and a CS degree is the best way overall to filter people. Why take the chance?

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
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old_School
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Posted: 19th Jan 2012 21:03 Edited at: 19th Jan 2012 21:05
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Nothing beats traditional classroom learning. Online is ok but hard, limited and requires a lot of self discipline. As for "Gaming Degree's" this is garbage. These are typically degree's created to pull in new customers and for the crap college to make money. a real "gaming degree" can be any thing from art to programming and everything in between.

It reminds me of how a movie is made in real life. a movie is more than just the actor you see on the screen. Their is about 1k plus people working behind the scenes in order to make that movie work. Games are no different. If you want to declare "the most important person" in game development, I'd say your lawyer is the most important person. He/she is the person who will make sure its all legal and properly documented/ready to sell to a publisher or at least ready in a legal sense.

"Gaming Degree's" you see in these advertisements pretty much don't tell you the full story. Most of you are Indie developers so I’m sure your smart enough to know game development is more then programming and pretty pictures. For those who are not, try making a commercial game from start to finish with out outside help. Then let me know how many "hats" you had to wear to complete the game. If you have a interest in "Gaming Degree's" try getting a degree in programming, art, management, business law or something related from a real university.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Jan 2012 21:18
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You've just created a beautiful image for me Old_school.

Now I want a wardrobe specifically for hats just for game making. I'll wear a coding hat, then a mapping hat and oh...a testing hat and a telling people about it on the internet hat.


This isn't me making fun of you. You've just inspired something awesome...or at least would have done if I had more than 2 hats.

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old_School
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Posted: 19th Jan 2012 23:17
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I know your not lol People just crak me up though when they post "Im getting a degree from Full Sail in blah" or one of the other crap colleges online. I don't think any one checks the placement rates before they attend or thinks it through. Their is several reassons why "Online Colleges" can't replace a real college. Just use common sense when considering going to college. If college was easy, everyone would have a degree and make mass fortune.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Jan 2012 00:11
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Yep. I think with getting a college degree, who you go for needs to be a well studied and considered decision. For one thing, it's 'x' number of years of your life and another, it's a lot of money so not something you want to make a bad decision over. Especially if it just turns out the degree doesn't mean anything or if the college is just crap. It's a pain in the butt, I know, I hated deciding what to do at University and where.

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bruce3371
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Posted: 20th Jan 2012 17:12
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I'm no expert and have no experience, but this question has come up more than once, and, in general, the answer is always along the lines of; "get a CS degree, and put together a portfolio of your work".

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Quik
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Posted: 20th Jan 2012 18:35
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Old school: college isnt hard either, just a matter of how much effort you put in it.

If you slack then offcourse it wont be easy.


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old_School
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Posted: 20th Jan 2012 21:38
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Quote: "Old school: college isnt hard either, just a matter of how much effort you put in it.

If you slack then offcourse it wont be easy."


College is supposed to challenge you and teach you a skill or trade. If college is not hard for you, then you’re not being challenge enough. There are also several versions or factors of “hard”. Time consuming can be difficult if you’re a busy parent or person. It can be finically hard on you traveling back and fourth daily to school. Or the classes their self can be hard. Some classes can prove to be fairly difficult to pass if you have a hard time following or understanding your professor.
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Quik
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Posted: 20th Jan 2012 21:43
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Quote: "College is supposed to challenge you and teach you a skill or trade. If college is not hard for you, then you’re not being challenge enough. There are also several versions or factors of “hard”. Time consuming can be difficult if you’re a busy parent or person."


but if you put in your best, you will either succeed with glory, or fail miserably because it wasnt "what you are into" or didnt grasp your interest.


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2012 00:48
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Quote: "Personally from what I know... they prefer you with experience... a degree means nothing these days aside from applying for visas... silly system..."


Probably the worst advice I've seen in this thread so far. Most companies in the game industry will require a degree just to get the resume in the right hands. You should be working on your own indie game or something to build experience at the same time as getting your computer science degree.


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MrValentine
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2012 08:02
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Quote: "Probably the worst advice I've seen in this thread so far. Most companies in the game industry will require a degree just to get the resume in the right hands. You should be working on your own indie game or something to build experience at the same time as getting your computer science degree.
"


I just do not know what to say to this... as it looks confused to me...

Anyhoo Lord Herakles the Great any news? did you find any fitting courses? be sure to check allllllll the information relating to the courses and make some calls to ask more questions and check those open days see if you can make it to them as they usually have tutors from the courses there too, I usually do that and also get in touch with the tutors directly it helps make a better choice.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2012 10:42
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I understood that as, you need the degree to get your foot in the door at most game companies (as it's a requirement), but try to get some experience either doing your own projects or something else. Reminiscing poking back when I applied for a job ate Associate Writer at Jagex, the job description ask for a degree and previous experience. The fact I make games in my spare time got me the interview. I know it's not the job the OP is after, but it's a game company. Sadly somebody else had more experience, but that's the way it is sometimes.

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kaya
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My brother wants to take a degree for game design.Here is the list that he send me.The list presents universities and institutions that offer free game design and development courses online.

1. MIT OpenCourseWare (www.mit.edu)- Game Design Course

The Massachusetts Institute of Technology offers a number of free game development and computer science courses through the school's OpenCourseWare project. All courses are downloadable and include lecture notes, problem sets and similar materials.

2. Utah State University OpenCourseWare (www.usu.edu)- Instructional Games Course

Like MIT, Utah State University offers several free downloadable courses through their OpenCourseWare Project. Courses that are of interest to game designers and developers include readings, class discussions and game design projects.

3. Tufts University Experimental College (www.tufts.edu)- Blender 3D Design

Materials from a recent Tufts University Experimental College game development course can be accessed for free online, via the course website. Lectures, assignments, examples and resources are easy to view and include all of the information you need to get hands-on experience in computer game development.

4. University of Southern Queensland (www.usq.edu.au)- Programming in C++ Course

The University of Southern Queensland in Australia provides free access to sample courses online. Not many would be useful to aspiring game designers and developers, but there is a comprehensive C++ programming course that would be helpful to beginner and intermediate level programmers.

5. Alan Emrich's Principles of Game Design (www.alanemrich.com)- Game Design Course

Alan Emrich has taught game design at the University of California at Irvine, The Art Institute of California and Stanford University. You can now view materials from his Principles of Game Design course online, including the syllabus, homework assignments and reading assignments. Rather than video games, this course focuses on the development and design of board games and card games.

6. Learners TV (www.learnerstv.com)- Computer Game Development Tutorial Video Lecture Course

LearnersTV.com is a massive site offering free video lectures, audio lectures, online tests, ebook downloads and forums. There is something new added every day and a handy search feature that can help you find exactly what you are looking for.

7. YoYo Games (www.yoyogames.com)- Game Maker Download

YoYo Games doesn't offer a traditional game design and development course, but they do have a free downloadable game maker that lets you create your own video games. You'll also find zip file tutorials that will teach you how to design your own first person shooter games, maze games, 3-dimensional games, platform games and scrolling shooter games.
8. Game Development (www.gamedev.net)- Beginners C++ Game Tutorial

GameDev.net is a complete resource for game developers. The site features an enormous collection of articles, tutorials and other resources. You'll also find job listings, product reviews, contests and more.

Have fun and enjoy playing [url=http://www.playhiddenobjectgames.org/hidden object games[/url]
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old_School
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MIT is the cream of the crop. Good luck getting into MIT. I herd not sure if its true or not but I herd MIT has a class Bill Gates personaly speaks at as a guest every semister.
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Lord Herakles the Great
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Posted: 24th Jan 2012 07:59
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Quote: "Anyhoo Lord Herakles the Great any news?"


Like I said, I'm going to go for a Computer Science degree. I'm looking into several schools in the area I live, but I haven't made up my mind about which one yet. I probably won't make a decision until after several months of research. In the mean time, I'm taking several courses at a local school, just to build up some credits.

The main focus of my attention, however, is on making games on my own.

Formerly known as Housewares
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