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Geek Culture / What's happening with CISPA - (the spying bill)? Could it really be passed?

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nonZero
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 11:33
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If you dunno what CISPA is, you can find out more, along with a petition against it here:

[href] http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_cispa_corporate_global/?vl [/href]

From what I gather, there's a lot of support for it, including that of large companies such as Microsoft. People on the web are saying this thing could get passed! And if this bill does get pushed back, will an even worse bill emerge in the future like how this emerged from SOPA's ashes? Is control over the internet and loss of privacy truly an inevitability? I've always believed so and always considered my time plugged in as "limited". I'd love it if somebody could shatter that belief.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 12:07
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I am not even gonna say anything this time, I am pretty sure they made an entire list of these cybersecurity bills as well as a bunch of backup clones of those bills that they keep shoving into congress. This one wont get passed? bring up the next cybersecurity/antipiracy bill,. this one wont pass either? ohh goodey we have an entire lineup of these bills!

When people and congress start becoming sick of these bills and just stop paying attention, They will pass something in congress and noone will care untill their homes get raided, harddrives confiscated, and receving a 25-life prison sentence

fun fact: US has the largest prison population in the world thats even bigger than chinese prison population even tho chinese total population is 3x bigger than the population of the US. i think. I am not even sure if china is second biggedst or possibly even lower. Russia is definatley not fast off in this aspect. its either second or third biggest prison population.


dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 12:20
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Here, is my BIGGEST concern with these shoe laws:
does ANYONE really want them?
ANYONE, except the governments?
I mean really now?

Here in sweden what we do is that we elect one "party" to rule the country for 4 years, its democratic and they are SUPPOSED to ask the general public whenever they want to pass "major laws", take acta for example, they didnt even mention it to us.

THATS my concern, WHY with the secret? why PUSH it? WE, we as the PEOPLE doesnt want it.

now on the task at hand:
Quote: "the US is poised to pass a new law that would permit US agents to spy on almost everything we do online."


Why would this law allow THEM to spy on ME, we are not even on the same CONTINENT. Thats another problem I have, why, on earth, is the US allowed to become "all powerfull" and my nanny? I dont give hooves about the US and they shouldnt give hooves about me.

Now i dont know if thats the case, the webbsite doesnt say that much about what its about really, ill have to look into that.. but its definitly a really crappy attitude.


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 13:18
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Quik, it's not just the US government. It's lobbyists for big corporations that are pushing it on the government. It's them that's losing money.

I'm starting to lose stamina fighting all these bills.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 13:20
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Quote: "I'm starting to lose stamina fighting all these bills."


signing a patition is hardly hard on your stamina lol x)


Quote: "It's lobbyists for big corporations that are pushing it on the government. It's them that's losing money."


Or so they claim


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 13:28 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2012 13:35
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Quote: "Or so they claim"


Oh, I believe they're losing money. The difference between 'us' and 'them' is that we believe that companies must adapt to the environment in order to make money. They want to forcefully change the environment so they can make more money while losing all regard for personal freedom.

I'm with PAGAN on this one, I think they have a list of bills queued up ready to use, which to me seems rather corrupt. I can't even begin to predict how long this battle might go on, but I do know that something a lot bigger needs to change - this is an issue of class, people hoarding money, and a lack of empathy for the regular people. We need a revolution up in this b*tch. The mindset of everyone needs to change, to the point it's no longer 'us' and 'them'. Where's the mutual understanding?


[edit]

Quote: "signing a patition is hardly hard on your stamina lol x)"


Nah it's more than that. First off, there's the mob mentality aspect, where everyone agrees with everyone for the sake of it. I don't even know what CISPA actually is, so I'm not gonna vote against it until I've done my research. Secondly for a message to spread it needs effort from individuals, sharing it via social networks enough times for people to actually pay attention.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 13:51
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Quote: "Oh, I believe they're losing money. The difference between 'us' and 'them' is that we believe that companies must adapt to the environment in order to make money. They want to forcefully change the environment so they can make more money while losing all regard for personal freedom."


Oh yes they are making money, but not ALMOST as much as theyre claiming they are.
There simply is no proof, that if i pirate a game, iam not going to buy it, as a matter of fact, a lot of people does do that.
I dont buy for a second that theyre loosing that much money, theyre just very greedy.
And yes, they definitly need to adapt - take music industry for example, who on earth is going to BUY a CD, when i can buy 10€/month and get every son i ever wanted on spotify? The CD industry for music is dead, they need to pour more money into services like Spotify or itunes, and most of all: tours. An musician can no longer sit at home and hope for money to pour in, they NEED to tour, as thats were the main source of income is from.


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 13:57 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2012 14:00
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Quote: "And yes, they definitly need to adapt - take music industry for example, who on earth is going to BUY a CD, when i can buy 10€/month and get every son i ever wanted on spotify? The CD industry for music is dead, they need to pour more money into services like Spotify or itunes, and most of all: tours. An musician can no longer sit at home and hope for money to pour in, they NEED to tour, as thats were the main source of income is from."


Amen to that. It's like an indie game developer making a game and expecting money to just roll in. Nah, you need to go out and work to get it noticed! The same should apply to musicians. There's a brand new stadium opening where I live, so there's a market for this stuff. But you're right, services like Spotify and iTunes have the right idea here, and if the big record labels put enough investment into that, they'd be making their damn money already!

I say we wait till the next generation of entrepreneurs and businessmen. Influential figures like Rupert Murdoch are the kinds pushing this agenda, the problem is that they don't even understand the internet. They don't know what it is, how it works, how it's used, why it's useful. They're stuck in the past, and they wanna keep it that way.

[edit]

ALSO, to paraphrase the awesome Mr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson, put less lawyers into government and more scientists and businessmen and all kinds of other people representing all portions of society. Lawyers are trained to win an argument even if they're wrong. We need people who can fight for what's true and moral.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
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Indicium
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 19:16
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Quote: " they NEED to tour"


Smaller bands rely on their albums to make money, when you take out the cost of hiring the venue, petrol costs, food costs, you don't really have a lot of money left.

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Quik
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 20:51
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Smaller bands should rely on smaller concerts, i know a LOT of smaller badns around where i live, and they always seem to have some sort of "small concert" going on with a couple small bands, ina small place


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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Indicium
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 21:21
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Alright, I'm thinking a little bit bigger than a local band, yet not as big to be international. Basically a band that tours the country playing academies to 300-400 people won't make a lot of money at all.

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Quik
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 22:07
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Quote: "Alright, I'm thinking a little bit bigger than a local band, yet not as big to be international. Basically a band that tours the country playing academies to 300-400 people won't make a lot of money at all."


But selling CDs to those 300-400 people will? Iam quite sure they dont make a lot more money from CDs


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rolfy
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 22:31 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2012 23:18
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,
Quote: "Alright, I'm thinking a little bit bigger than a local band, yet not as big to be international. Basically a band that tours the country playing academies to 300-400 people won't make a lot of money at all."


http://www.altpress.com/features/entry/no_money_mo_problems/

http://grafwall.indiestar.tv/2010/07/oh-sleepers-shane-blay-discusses.html]

To get this back on topic, what happened to the right to free speech?
You know what this all smacks of? ....communism, not socialist communism...police state communism. It was once the greatest paranoia and now they embrace it, or at least they use it to divert from what they are really up to using peoples inherent paranoia and sense of self righteousness to smokescreen the real deal.

They want more control over this particular animal, its about information not piracy or pedophiles or terrorism. Its not even really about greed its about putting a gag on people who ask awkward questions, if your not for us your against us.

The CIA have openly stated to congress they now have the greatest source of information with Facebook, which you look closer at and find the top directors are in fact ex CIA (they didnt create facebook, thats just rumour but they do in fact run it now), it was once the case they wanted info on you they had to scour records and visit your neighbours, now they got it all right there at the click of a button and y'all hand it to them, then complain about privacy
The McCarthy witchhunts would have been so much easier when they just turned themselves in...right?
If this kind of bill is passed expect social sites to be left alone.

The world is a smaller place now and that's why you get certain countries trying to control the 'Global Village'. The internet scares them witless and gives them what they want (information...lots of it), at the same time.
They just don't want YOU having access to it.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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budokaiman
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 22:35 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2012 22:38
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Quote: "But selling CDs to those 300-400 people will? Iam quite sure they dont make a lot more money from CDs"


I really hate this form of thought. The album sales aren't just about making money, it's also how record companies decide which bands to keep and which ones to drop. Here's a quote from Chris Clancy after Mutiny Within got Dropped from RoadRunner.

Quote: "
In a June 2011 online posting (which has since been removed), Clancy said about his decision to leave MUTINY WITHIN, "I find myself leaving a career that I strived over half of my life to accomplish. I gave up almost everything to live in a basement in another country and make music with my bandmates in search of a record deal. We did the impossible and got signed to Roadrunner Records. It was my childhood dream and I had everything I ever wanted. Or so I thought.

My love for singing and performing soon started to diminish as time and time again we got screwed over by the industry in some way or another.

I love being in a band because I love singing and I've just found that everything I'm doing is for the wrong reasons. There's no passion or drive to wake up in the morning and make music with the guys, so I'm not going to do that anymore. Maybe a new venture will come my way and it will restart the fire that I once had.

We live in an age where labels don't just take money from music sales, but from almost every form of a band's income. This isn't the labels' fault. They front money to let the bands make their music and put it out. They're businesses and want to make a profit. But what happens when a band is given money to record an album, puts it out, and then doesn't sell enough records…? They are evaluated and either dropped or given a second chance with a strict budget… We were dropped. We didn't even hit 10,000 legal album sales in the USA. Yet looking at torrent sites around the Internet, you can easily find 60,000+ illegal downloads. Our music was stolen, the label didn't make enough money, and now there will be no more music.

Why am I saying this? Because this happens to so many other bands and they stay quiet about it.

After four years of working almost every day with the band, the reality is I've earned $100 in all that time. I simply cannot afford to continue on. Visa costs, living costs…

People seem to think I'm rich because I'm a musician, but many of you will know the reality of the industry."
"



3DS friend code: 0044-2895-5474
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nonZero
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 23:33
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Agreed piracy is bad, but I have to agree with rolfy; this bill really ain't about piracy.

Quote: "They want more control over this particular animal, its about information not piracy or pedophiles or terrorism. Its not even really about greed its about putting a gag on people who ask awkward questions, if your not for us your against us."

Like +1

I remember back when my country was still on 56k dial-up internet. Your use was charged by the minute as an international phonecall by the telecoms. Back then nobody could download large things like pirated movies/games/cds etc. Piracy was just as rife though. Every flea market had a dozen stores selling pirated stuff, a few gaming shops operating IN shopping malls were doing it and there was a contact I had who used to repair consoles, chip consoles, break my best mate's PlayStation, sell generic peripherals and sell pirated games. Hell, even some cops bought pirated stuff. So if internet piracy got taken out, old-school piracy would be back. Same with cp. Pedos have been doing it for years before the net and will keep doing it after the net. Same with terrorists.

The more I find out on this bill, the more it nauseates me. And what make it worse is that I think PAGAN's right, I think they're prolly got a pile of these things on the back burner. My only comfort is that I've been preparing for this for around five or six years now. If it comes down to it, I'd rather disconnect than be spied on.

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bruce3371
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 23:44 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2012 23:47
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The UK government is trying to pass a similar law, to have unfettered access to our emails and monitor our internet usage, all in the name of 'National Security'.

Now, I'm all for monitoring known terrorist's internat usage, but why everyone else? Are we ALL deemed to be a threat to 'National Security'?

About the whole copyright protection thing, the media industry has never taken to new technology, they've fought pretty much every new innovation that's come along. They fought vinyl, they fought cassette tapes, they fought Betamax, then VHS, they fought CD's and DVDs, now they're fighting online downloads. They're simply not willing to embrace new technology, each time something new comes along it's always the same reaction "OMG, we'll lose millions of dollars in revenue". And everytime, they're proven wrong. No revenue was lost when Betamax or VHS were introduced, the same goes for CDs and DVDs. The same will go for online downloads.

The fight against online piracy is just a cover for the media industry's unwillingness to accept new tech. Piracy doesn't steal revenue away from artists anywhere near as much as it's claimed.

Years ago, Southpark made a very good parody about piracy in one episode, where they were talking about how Lars Uhrich from Metallica couldn't have some shiny new such-and-such in his massive mansion because of piracy.

Funny how, with all the 'lost revenue', the media corporations and artists are still all stinking rich!! I guess they think they're not stinking rich enough!!

Now, don't get me wrong, I think piracy is just another form of theft, and am most definitely NOT advocating that we all do it. My point is that piracy isn't the big revenue stealer that it's made out to be...

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heyufool1
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Posted: 24th Apr 2012 01:40
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Quote: "Years ago, Southpark made a very good parody about piracy in one episode, where they were talking about how Lars Uhrich from Metallica couldn't have some shiny new such-and-such in his massive mansion because of piracy."

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e09-christian-rock-hard

Great episode.

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"

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nonZero
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Posted: 24th Apr 2012 09:25
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You know far be it for me to play devil's advocate but I do agree that piracy is harming the music industry - badly. However, why do we even need the music industry? It suddenly occured to me in an epiphany (?spelling right?) that high-speed communication has made the traditional industry pointless. Why not have artists skip the signing with a label sh-- and have iTunes Store* become their publisher? Then there's no label to leech their money. iTunes Store* could take a certain small percentage of sales but because they are massive and anybody could sell, that percentage could be like >5%. So that means the artist gets 90-something percent of sales! It sure would make up for losses caused by pirates.

*or a similar service. I don't necessarily endorse iProducts and iSoftware due to concerns with their privacy policy... And because I prefer pears to Apples

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Quik
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Posted: 24th Apr 2012 13:05
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Quote: " Then there's no label to leech their money. iTunes Store* could take a certain small percentage of sales but because they are massive and anybody could sell, that percentage could be like >5%. So that means the artist gets 90-something percent of sales! It sure would make up for losses caused by pirates."


Just a matter of fact, as it is not the ARTISTS get around 5% and the publishers 95%, so thats a heck of a chnange - for the better.


One might want to add that most music from the "really big ones" are available for free, legally, on youtube.


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nonZero
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Posted: 24th Apr 2012 21:01
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I guess that this sort of thing could end up becoming commonplace - like online shopping, ebay, etc. Maybe that's what the corporates are afraid of. Now that they're becoming obsolete, they're backing the government's spy&censor bills because they fear the future.

So, government wanna control us, spy on us and put us into neat little pidgeon-holes carved for us. Corporates who stand to benefit financially are jumping on the bandwagon and backing the governments. I guess there's nobody left on the side of "the people"... except of course, "the people". It may be tedious, but the only hope I see is if we just keep signing petitions, posting them on fb, mailing them to friends, family, etc. and taking part in local protests. We'll prolly be fighting so long as our online freedom exist - unless one of us goes into politics and drafts "The Internet Total Freedom Bill" and gets it passed and then signs a treaty with every country in the world to adopt it

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Indicium
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Posted: 24th Apr 2012 21:14
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How do they define the internet?

For example, if this were passed, and everyone bought masses of hubs and ethernet cables, one neighbor connecting to another, your packets being routed through hundreds of hubs to find it's destination and we created our own network, what right do they have to rule over that?

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nonZero
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Posted: 24th Apr 2012 21:44
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How do they define the internet?

For example, if this were passed, and everyone bought masses of hubs and ethernet cables, one neighbor connecting to another, your packets being routed through hundreds of hubs to find it's destination and we created our own network, what right do they have to rule over that?
"


Lol, good point. There was actually some similar thinking - the "hacker satellite" idea - during the SOPA-saga (with a satelite though, not cables):

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Chaos-Computer-Club-Hackerspace-Global-Grid-SOPA-Protect-IP-Nick-Farr,news-13742.html

I think realistically, putting logic and ethics asides, they could define any wireless signal that could be received outside your property as fair game and they'd prolly pass a bill to define any wires that passed over municipal property (ie the roads) to be fair game too. It may sound crazy but I wouldn't put it past them. Governments are growing increasingly more paranoid, corrupt and unstable. In my country they forced cellphone SIM card registration practically over night - no vote from the people - under the premise of "to assist police investigations" (whatever you want to define that as).

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Quik
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Posted: 24th Apr 2012 22:28
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Quote: "I guess there's nobody left on the side of "the people"... except of course, "the people"


And it is the people they SHOULD be afraid of... and listen to... *sigh*

no people and there is no goverment, the goverment exists to contol the people.


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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