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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] What was the most EPIC fpsc game you played ever?

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SilentX
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Posted: 29th Jun 2012 15:51 Edited at: 29th Jun 2012 17:31
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As the title explains what was the best fpsc game you played EVER?

Mine was Alpha Project. To bad they changed engines and are starting from scratch
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 29th Jun 2012 21:49
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Can you please just stick these EPIC threads into one thread?

And there is no such thing as an EPIC FPSC game.

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
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bruce3371
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Posted: 29th Jun 2012 23:48
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Quote: "And there is no such thing as an EPIC FPSC game."


Epic is one of those words, like awesome, that is just overused all the time, and it does my nut in lol

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rolfy
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 01:12 Edited at: 30th Jun 2012 01:36
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Awesome!

Quote: "And there is no such thing as an EPIC FPSC game."

I have seen quite a few,there a lot of aspects in any game design and I see things being implemented into FPSC games that are pretty epic. When you take into account all the skills ANYONE needs to create a 3d game you get an idea of how well thought out and how much work it actually takes to get something decent out of any engine and that in my opinion makes some games created with FPSC epic.

However this kind of question has been asked before and its always the same list, to me a very small part of a game created in FPSC can make me sit up and notice, just as a very small feature even in a AAA game can get a buzz happening, I dont care what was used to create the game so long as its playable and it irks me when folks dont even give it a chance because of the software used.
Yes there are many bad games out there created with FPSC but its down to the users not the software

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 04:04
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Quote: "I have seen quite a few,there a lot of aspects in any game design and I see things being implemented into FPSC games that are pretty epic. When you take into account all the skills ANYONE needs to create a 3d game you get an idea of how well thought out and how much work it actually takes to get something decent out of any engine and that in my opinion makes some games created with FPSC epic.
"

I'm just going to agree to disagree. There are no epic FPSC games and I've played just about all of the highly praised "best" FPSC games. The amount of work, skill, and creativity is entirely irrelevant in every way shape or form. Just because someone, to the best of their ability, makes a game absolutely does not make a game epic by any means whatsoever. The question was, "What was the most EPIC fpsc game you played ever?" Not, 'What FPSC game have you played that had a lot of time, hard work, and skill was used in the process of making said game.' It's just all irrelevant to me. The games either good or not, and I've yet to play any FPSC game, nor will I likely ever, that is even moderately decent. I just don't like the way FPSC plays. It's terrible.

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
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Quik
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 04:14
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Quote: "The games either good or not"


You're making that sound very objective.


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 04:36
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FPSC has traits that can't be removed without modifying it so heavily that it isn't really FPSC anymore. And yes, it will be compared to higher-end games made in other engines. That's when an FPSC defender will always revert to, "well for FPSC, it's amazing!"

What about something that doesn't need the "for FPSC" part?

I mean...I put a whole lot of time, hard work and effort into doing a poop today, but no-one would praise that either...
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Thraxas
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 04:38
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Quote: "I mean...I put a whole lot of time, hard work and effort into doing a poop today, but no-one would praise that either..."


Grats man

http://thraxocorp.webs.com/ Visit my totally awesome website: Thraxocorp. It's my own company and I'm totes the CEO.
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rolfy
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 06:28 Edited at: 30th Jun 2012 08:57
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Quote: "I mean...I put a whole lot of time, hard work and effort into doing a poop today, but no-one would praise that either..."

Yes, I completely understand where your coming from....a turd is a turd whatever your using. Maybe if folks stopped comparing FPSC to other engines (I didnt even go there except to make the point you so eloquently touched on above, so dont know why its being brought up...again), these kind of facetious comments are what I have come to expect from the 'top' designers around here that never actually finished a project (in any engine), maybe you guys could show us your games created in UDK, Unity, DBP, DGK, Leadwerks or whatever before you decide your doing so much better than FPSC users.
I would even settle for a demo level but not going to hold my breath.

So I will continue to differ in my views until proven otherwise. The only thing I might agree on and you seem afraid to say it, is that the level of design skills around here might not be up to par with AAA games designers so what do you expect?

I doubt very much you picked up on UDK and said "I want to do this" and you got it together in a flash, it takes effort and work and thats what I am saying....so does FPSC.
FPSC does not deserve the bad rap you guy's throw at it, thats too easy, you couldn't say UDK is crap so your stuck with the fact you cant use that as an excuse for your own lack of product. Just a heads up I used UDK and FPSC and I like FPSC a lot better to work with as an individual, yes it has some issues but nothing I couldn't find a way around, with some hard work and effort, you dont sit on the pan and pinch one off to achieve this before you think of being flippant again, nor will I blame the software for my own shortcomings.

Quote: "The games either good or not, and I've yet to play any FPSC game, nor will I likely ever, that is even moderately decent. I just don't like the way FPSC plays. It's terrible."

This is a fair enough point but see my reference to designers above. I dont think this is as much to do with FPSC but mostly that designers around here are very young or simply hobbyists and this goes for all TGC products, we are not all game design professionals or we wouldn't be hanging around here, whats your excuse for hanging around? Surely cant be just to bad mouth TGC products.
I know for a fact there are actually really good game creators around here who dont show their work in WIP or Showcase for the simple reason they would get this reaction, no matter how good their game is.
I also believe some of those who do have work in progress or in showcase actually are doing very interesting work, but thats just my opinion.

So the guy got your goat for asking about EPIC FPSC games, may not be the best description but no reason for you to blow your trumpet with an ill mannered response.
The mods are there to decide when a thread is appropriate or not.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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Vent
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 08:46
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I really hate this use of the word epic...

Anyway, the number of really good FPSC games I've played is few, but Leviathan Crossfire is a good one. There are others, but that was the most recent.



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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 11:14 Edited at: 30th Jun 2012 11:17
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Quote: "Maybe if folks stopped comparing FPSC to other engines (I didnt even go there except to make the point you so eloquently touched on above, so dont know why its being brought up...again), these kind of facetious comments are what I have come to expect from the 'top' designers around here that never actually finished a project (in any engine), maybe you guys could show us your games created in UDK, Unity, DBP, DGK, Leadwerks or whatever before you decide your doing so much better than FPSC users.
I would even settle for a demo level but not going to hold my breath."

That 'top' designers comment gave me a good laugh and if was directed towards me is just an absolute joke that I can't further comment on.

Quote: "So I will continue to differ in my views until proven otherwise."

Until what's been proven? The fact that FPSC has NEVER made something that is of true quality? You may enjoy what has been made from FPSC but that's because you have grown to respect the work and effort that is put into said games. You are also a fellow indie developer and have a much higher respect for anything that's created in the engine you use. If these FPSC games were put on steam for people to play, they'd be lucky to get a 2 out of 10.

Quote: "The only thing I might agree on and you seem afraid to say it, is that the level of design skills around here might not be up to par with AAA games designers so what do you expect?"

There has been enough talent here that if used on a good engine could make something of note. But because they spend their time using FPSC, they never will. In fact, I guarantee if you yourself spent the time on a different engine, you could make something far greater than you ever would with FPSC. UDK may not have been for you, that doesn't mean something like Unity isn't. I liked FPSC more than Unity, but that doesn't mean FPSC is better. I was just better at FPSC.

Now, I'm not saying that FPSC necessarily CAN'T make something of value... I'm saying it HASN'T. There's a big difference between can't and hasn't. However, I don't think FPSC ever will because it for one, will never have AAA talent and two, even if it did, it still wouldn't make a AAA game.

Quote: "I doubt very much you picked up on UDK and said "I want to do this" and you got it together in a flash, it takes effort and work and thats what I am saying....so does FPSC."

Your right, I didn't do that with UDK. I did that with Unity, having spent over 7 months on it faithfully.

Quote: "Just a heads up I used UDK and FPSC and I like FPSC a lot better to work with as an individual, yes it has some issues but nothing I couldn't find a way around, with some hard work and effort"

Cool... I used Unity for 7 months and guess what, I liked FPSC better too. That doesn't mean FPSC is better.

Quote: "whats your excuse for hanging around? Surely cant be just to bad mouth TGC products."

The community... and that's it. Believe it or not, there are a few people I like around here. And it's product... NOT productS.

Quote: "So the guy got your goat for asking about EPIC FPSC games, may not be the best description but no reason for you to blow your trumpet with an ill mannered response.
The mods are there to decide when a thread is appropriate or not."

It's funny how ridiculously sensitive this world has become. I said "Can you please just stick these EPIC threads into one thread?" I ASKED him and I ASKED him NICELY. It's YOU who became 'ill-mannered' as you incorrectly put that I did. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that FPSC will never make something good, it's the fact that he's now made three of basically the same thread with a slight variation in a short time. No, it's not against the AUP but to save posts for other threads I figure it would be better to just have a mega 'epic' thread. NOWHERE in my post did I TELL him to put them in one thread or say anything even mildly ill-mannered (until this post now of course.) I ASKED him if he could. How you interpret my writing is of your concern... but for future purposes, when I ASK someone NICELY, I generally am doing just that. At the end of said question, I stated my opinion that FPSC has never made an epic game. Or is that out of the question to say my opinion? I guess in this overly-sensitive world I understand it pretty much has become a crime to state an opinion so long as it differs from another's. A shame I haven't learned that yet.

But I guess this was a massive waste of my time entirely because you're just going to come back with same "'I'm an ill-mannered'" 'top designer' who's never put any hard work and effort in to anything game design and therefore can't have an opinion on an FPSC game because I apparently don't know what effort was put into said games."

I want you to understand though, that I don't dislike FPSC in any way shape or form. It is great at doing what it is meant for. And that is for hobbyists, generally young hobbyists. It is NOT meant for commercial gaming. If it wasn't for FPSC, I wouldn't know anything even about computers at all. I learned the basics of game design and have learned what is required to make a real game... Something that 99% of people really don't know what is involved.

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
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Kezzla
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 12:05
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I personally like and use dbpro for my programming needs, I have nothing against FPSC and have never utilized it to its fullest degree. I think if someone can make a good story with it and incorporate some creative scripting then there is no reason something of value cannot be created.

I have personally enjoyed making massive multilevel monster mazes in FPSC. even with its apparent restrictions I still enjoy what it can achieve.

I'm not going to release my fpsc levels, because they are experimental, basic and a bit of fun(and slightly crap). there's no reason someone cant make a masterpiece with it.

I would like to see some links to actual "EPIC" FPSC games. it would give me ideas on what can be achieved with simple effort.
This would be the obvious benefit of this thread.

show me something cool in fpsc and post it here.

I've got nothing(doesn't mean there is nothing).

kezzla

Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
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rolfy
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 12:17 Edited at: 30th Jun 2012 12:20
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OK so I am wrong and this was supposed to be constructive?

Quote: "Can you please just stick these EPIC threads into one thread?

And there is no such thing as an EPIC FPSC game."


Maybe you could have said it a little less abruptly. Its not all aimed at you but you started the ball rolling with it and got caught in the crossfire. I do, as you say, have a lot of respect for my fellow indie developers, yourself and the new one posting this thread included.

Quote: "That 'top' designers comment gave me a good laugh and if was directed towards me is just an absolute joke that I can't further comment on."

Yes, that was sarcasm.

Quote: "I guess in this overly-sensitive world I understand it pretty much has become a crime to state an opinion so long as it differs from another's. A shame I haven't learned that yet."

This has nothing to do with your opinion, its the presentation I have difficulty with and this is not solely aimed at you.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 12:25
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Quote: "Maybe you could have said it a little less abruptly. Its not all aimed at you but you started the ball rolling with it and got caught in the crossfire. I do, as you say, have a lot of respect for my fellow indie developers, the new one posting this thread included. "

Completely understandable... I actually just didn't have time to type anything beyond that. Had posted that just before leaving for a four hour drive to a vacation home and usually struggle to get internet access up here. Don't actually have internet, have to tether my phone and half the time it ends up not working because I won't have any phone signal to tether at all.

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
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rolfy
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 13:10 Edited at: 30th Jun 2012 13:45
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Quote: "Completely understandable.."

Maybe for you....for all I know your sitting beside Coffeegrunt and had all the time in the world.

Ok, pals again right? Don't fight it, it only makes the pain worse.

Decent FPSC games? How to judge that? It depends mostly on when you played an FPSC game, each version has its own limitations, there was always a lot of buzz around any games created by ButterFingers, he would do things with FPSC which were really inventive.
Principality of Mars for its sheer style but there are many others, I could actually build up a big list with reasons why I really liked what someone had created with FPSC and not feel I had to say one was better than another, I see games with brilliant level design, games which are artful eye candy, games with clever scripting and source code edits each has its own merits.
Seriously though Epic, perhaps not, thats relative to what you consider Epic to be.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 14:43
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Epic != Awesome != Good

An epic is a long poem detailing the adventures of a hero, or something similar to such a poem. So there a probably quite a few epic FPSC games but it doesn't necessarily mean they are good or vice versa.

Awesome is something extremely impressive or daunting; inspiring great admiration, apprehension, or fear.

I hate seeing good descriptive words diluted by shoddy usage, how do we describe things that are truly awesome and epic now?

I haven't played a single FPSC game, maybe I should try them out.

Shh... you're pretty.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 14:50
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I haven't played any, but I haven't played many AAA FPS. This thread might work better in the FPSC forum.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 15:00
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Quote: "And yes, it will be compared to higher-end games made in other engines. That's when an FPSC defender will always revert to, "well for FPSC, it's amazing!""


True, and true. FPSC is a fun little hobbyist tool, it isn't really geared towards the same standards of development as professional tools (that should be apparent to anyone). But that's not to say it's not capable of something unique.

I've played some interesting FPSC games (nothing epic however), but to me they were all hampered by the sub-standard engine. But as people say, it's not bad for what it is. You just have to remember that people don't care what tool a game was made in, they only care about the finished product.



Support a charitable indie game project!
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Quik
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 17:27
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Quote: " This thread might work better in the FPSC forum."


should work equally fine here - offtopic is about.. well, any kind of threads really.


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 18:07
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I think Rolfy's just angry that we don't praise the ground he walks on like the rest of the FPSC group...

Also, I gave up on game creation for a long time and tried writing. My best fictional piece gathered 1700 unique readers on one site, at least 1300 on another before the tracking got removed, and my DeviantArt got 900 watchers not too long ago.

I understand there's a bit of crossover, but I think it's safe to say that my story reached an audience of at least a thousand. It also won a voting award with a fifth of the vote in a category populated by hundreds, and inspired many people to create art, music and fiction themselves after reading it.

So because of my work, some people gathered the courage to create works themselves - many have told me or shown off what they have done.

But do I boast about it the way some others do? No, not until people start claiming I'm a success-less pundit. I daresay I've touched more people with that one story than all your game projects combined, Rolfy, how does that feel?
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wizard of id
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 18:48 Edited at: 30th Jun 2012 18:54
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Well I agree with rolfy, and just for the record, rolfy would be technically good in any engine, he is doing pretty awesome stuff, with even more limited resources, I dare you Mr naysayer to do the same with the same engine.

It is damn annoying when reply's come forward "urrgh your using that piece of software".No self respecting person, will diss software and that on the software developers own website.

Besides this debate has been raging on from longer than the silent hill fires.

Always fan boy's vs mostly stupid, biased, uneducated, "I don't care if it can make dried ham taste like buttermilk cookies topped with yogurt icing" remarks.

Compare apples to apples, apparently this saying lost its meaning and this specifically on this forum.As well as the that word that pretty much eludes some people some times, Respect.

Oh and "EPIC" or greek "epikos" is a relative term, and translates in layman's terms, "eye of the beholder" a simple definition of "above ordinary", "above normalcy" but since the word's original meaning changed, it is considered a slang word.

It still comes down to having a point of view, which comes down to having experience first to have a valid point of view one can either agree or disagree with, so unless you have actually played and done some decent work with the engine, it is a theoretical point of view, a cup of shjooooo should be in order, unless you can explain in great detail point for point, why some one can't possibly create some thing worth calling epic.

Just been chatting to my neighbours teenage daughter and it turns out she's big into UFOs and aliens.

Which is cool because tomorrow she's getting abducted.
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bruce3371
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 19:28 Edited at: 30th Jun 2012 20:46
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Just for laughs - the Urban Dictionary definitions of Awesome and Epic;

"1. epic

the most overused word ever, next to fail. for even more (expletive deleted) points, use them together to form "epic fail."

everything is epic now. epic car. epic haircut. epic movie. epic album. epic shut the (expletive deleted) up.

saying "epic win" doesn't make you sound any better, either. and for (expletive deleted) sake, don't ever say it in person.
DUDE UR POSTCOUNT IZ EPIC FAIL (expletive deleted)

LOL EPIC WIN U RUEL

LISTEN TO THIS SONG IT'S SO EPIC

2. epic

A word, whose meaningful definition(s)and correct applications are now obscured and have been (expletive deleted) to death mostly by the 25 and under crowd.

It has been overused as "the" catch phrase used to describe a situation, person, event, movie, taking a (expletive deleted),etc. The abuse and birth as a catchphrase has its origins among avid gamers and pretentious English majors.

There are too many "epic" examples to count, just go walk onto a college campus and listen closely."

"1. awesome

Something Americans use to describe everything.
Oh wow it's just awesome
amazing cool good brilliant awe inspiring

2. Awesome

An overused adjective intended to denote something as "cool" or "great" but instead winds up meaning "lame."

This is actually a reflection of the lameness of person using the word, the degree of which is directly proportionate to difference between the user's perspective of the so-called awesome object/person/situation and that of a reasonably sober, well-informed observer."

As I said, this is just for laughs, I'm not trying to score points or win any arguments, and I most certainly don't take Urban Dictionary too seriously! I just posted this for some light relief!

Oh yes, my favourite FPSC game? PoM 3.

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Bootlicker
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 20:57
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I have to agree that FPSC games do suck more than Bree Olson but you can still pick your favourite. I mean, maybe just me but I sometimes come out of the toilet with 'wow, that was a guddun.' Just pick your favourite turd.

Alpha Project for me.

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kingofmk98
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 21:04
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Alpha Project


Get My FPSC Media at http://fpscfree.webs.com/
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Wolf
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 21:30
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Hey! My fpsc game made me the antichrist in an italian TV show. How about that for "epic" ?

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes, art is knowing which ones to keep.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 22:15
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...

Argument won.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 22:17
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Not played it, but that alone makes it worth my vote (and I've watched gameplay vids so I'm not shooting in the dark).

So er,, Euthanasia.

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rolfy
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 23:14 Edited at: 1st Jul 2012 00:28
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Quote: "I think Rolfy's just angry that we don't praise the ground he walks on like the rest of the FPSC group..."

Nope...this is what made me angry..
Quote: "I mean...I put a whole lot of time, hard work and effort into doing a poop today, but no-one would praise that either..."


Quote: "
My best fictional piece gathered 1700 unique readers on one site, at least 1300 on another before the tracking got removed, and my DeviantArt got 900 watchers not too long ago.So because of my work, some people gathered the courage to create works themselves - many have told me or shown off what they have done.]But do I boast about it the way some others do? No, not until people start claiming I'm a success-less pundit. I daresay I've touched more people with that one story than all your game projects combined, Rolfy, how does that feel? "

It feels fine, I dont know what your trying to say with that and I could point out that you dont know much about me if you think that's going to impress me. It also has nothing to do with the topic in hand (unless you put a lot of hard work and effort into it....). If you dont get why I am angry then let me make it clear to you. I am fed up of new users being moderated and run off by folks around here that always seem to be the least productive members.

Its not about my ego, its not about your opinion and its certainly not about the overuse of certain words. You were being a smart ass, thats all there is to it.

If you have nothing of substance to say then keep it shut, I dont jump into pony threads giving my 'opinion' of its worthiness or otherwise, so how about you just dont post if you dont have anything constructive to say.

Maybe less blowing of your trumpet on past glory with your touching of peoples hearts and minds thus encouraging them to do great things and do the same around here.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 23:33
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This thread is full of epically awesome win!

http://thraxocorp.webs.com/ Visit my totally awesome website: Thraxocorp. It's my own company and I'm totes the CEO.
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Quik
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 01:48
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I love how theyre talking about poop..


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 01:58
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My point as that I spent six months of my life writing a piece of fiction, even when I didn't want to. I'm not talentless or unproductive, just that I found my talents didn't lie in methods of translating a story, but in their creation.

The thing with FPSC, is that so few games try to tell a great story. UDK is an unfair comparison, there's simply so many more people, so many of them far more dedicated to the cause of the projects they work on.

I see games as a means to tell a story in a new and exciting way. While some did try to do that, they were always limited in FPSC. The cutscene methods and implementation are primitive at best, at worst, non-existent. You can make a fun game, sure, but can you make a game where the player finishes it, leans back in his chair and considers what it taught him?

"Triple-A" games have this ability. We all know a game that enthralled us, it's why we chose to ever be on a game development forum. At some point, we played a game that made us lean back on our chairs and consider them as something above bleeping 8-bit tones and flashy graphics, but as a means for us to express a story we want to show to our players.

And yet, I spent so long trying to make a cinematic in FPSC. What should have been simple required reams of scripting that I poured myself into, so I moved to UDK. It had an in-house Matinee system that is simply amazing to work with by comparison.

And yet, I still found myself limited by what I could create. I hit this ceiling with UDK, not FPSC. I then went into writing, became somewhat successful, and now myself and Comet are working on a DBPro project together, along with a team of around two dozen, though we're still recruiting and weeding out applicants.
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Wolf
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 02:17 Edited at: 1st Jul 2012 02:20
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Its Bi-Winning

But hey, lets join in the argument.

@RedneckRambo

Quote: "The games either good or not, and I've yet to play any FPSC game, nor will I likely ever, that is even moderately decent."


Concidering games from rolfy or myself which aren't bad for indie standarts... you really don't like homemade games at all then?

I get why you dont like FPSC, I'm the last one to defend it...but dismissing all of our work as completely worthless and compare it to crap is hardly an objective statment. Lets just take the game "Dark Void". It was a horribly boring and repetitive game with clumsy animations and a really lazy storyline. I concidered it a huge waste of time and ...I got it for 1 Euro, so I guess thats cool. I can however see all the time and effort that was flowing in coding it, creating the characters in a 3D Interface, programming jetpack-gameplay and artdesign/3D modelling. I didn't like it, I thought it was awful but I wouldn't say completely worthless or compare it to a turd.

Same angle with better FPSC Games. Mostly young developers (hey! I'm only 20 too) scrape together a full 3D game, often in completely selfmade levels and with homemade animated characters. It all results in an often nice looking and playable endproduct that a lot of people enjoy. My most famous game has had thousands of downloads and a ton of youtube/facecam videos where people get scared etc. etc. Its a horror shooter, a plain and simple clusterhump of bugs with a ton of gore splattered in it... if you want to: and indie equivalent to Id's Doom3. My point is, that if you concider Euthanasia a worthless and not even remotely decent...you can't think much higher of Doom3. Why? While Doom3 is the superior game in most ways (I think I created a more morbid athmosphere) its still rather similar when you get down to core gameplay.

throw in the fact that most FPSC games are made by singular people. Rolfy's Dark house for instance was a real time point-and-click adventure made in software not even remotely intended for it. That alone has to be worth something in my book.

But once again, I agree with you. Fellow FPSC users that wind up here and actually read this might not've seen this coming but hey! I'm an honest man.

Whenever I have a great Idea for a game, it will get dumbed down, sucked dry, demolished, torn apart and reduced to nothing but a roughly recognizable wreck from the original idea simply because thats all I can create in FPSC. I just don't agree with your extreme/bipolar attitude towards all FPSC games being worthless crap and a game being either good or bad... thats too bipolar and primitive in my eyes.

Quote: "I want you to understand though, that I don't dislike FPSC in any way shape or form. It is great at doing what it is meant for. And that is for hobbyists, generally young hobbyists. It is NOT meant for commercial gaming. If it wasn't for FPSC, I wouldn't know anything even about computers at all. I learned the basics of game design and have learned what is required to make a real game... Something that 99% of people really don't know what is involved."


Same with me. Even though I think most people on these forums know what is involved into making a real game.


@rolfy


Quote: "maybe you guys could show us your games created in UDK, Unity, DBP, DGK, Leadwerks or whatever before you decide your doing so much better than FPSC users."


I agree... I have some work done in UDK and I know from experience how much you can do with that beast...and how much soultorturing work and effort it takes But yeah, whenever I get a comment, Private message from some clam telling me to stop using this "crap software" and starting to work with [insert Engine here]...its usually from someone who never created anything with it or only made a map with stock content in UDK. Ironically, people who have worked on larger projects in better software tend to respect my work or the work of any other skilled artist that uses this substandard engine... for fun.

Quote: "nor will I blame the software for my own shortcomings."


Very mature... i've noticed a lot of people who have tha mindset that "what they can do with it, is the best the software can do".

Quote: "I know for a fact there are actually really good game creators around here who dont show their work in WIP or Showcase for the simple reason they would get this reaction,"


What reaction? that someone might not like it or concider their work crap? Come on! thats part of life if you do any crafting/art.


@Coffee Grunt:


Quote: "I mean...I put a whole lot of time, hard work and effort into doing a poop today, but no-one would praise that either"


I would concider seeing a doctor about this if you need a lot of time, hard work and effort to take a dump.

Your statment is incorrect by the way, I'm an artstudent and I can tell you that a lof of people praise complete poop.

Quote: "and now myself and Comet are working on a DBPro project together, along with a team of around two dozen, though we're still recruiting and weeding out applicants."


If you have a free position for a complete lunatic, shoot me a mail

Well, this must be the post with most "feces" in it I've ever posted.



-Wolf

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes, art is knowing which ones to keep.
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rolfy
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 02:55 Edited at: 1st Jul 2012 04:21
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Well said Wolf and I agree entirely with everything you just said, I am not defending FPSC per se but those who try to do something with it and dont bitch about its shortcomings without giving any detailed reasons why, anyone who actually tries to use it will know that its not perfect but I believe many of these problems are down to users lack of knowledge about game creation and FPSC in general, myself included and not entirely down to the software.
Quote: "What reaction? that someone might not like it or concider their work crap? Come on! thats part of life if you do any crafting/art."

Oh! the idea that the game is crap simply because its made in FPSC not that its crap because the designer didn't have the skills to pull it off, its the difference between criticism and constructive criticism.

CoffeeGrunt, it is not my intention to say you are untalented and unproductive in general but lets be honest...when was the last time you actually used FPSC? do you really believe you have the experience with it to make comments?
You angered me because I said with hard work something can be achieved and you compared it to sitting on the John...how would you feel if you work hard to do something, only to have it compared like that?

I look forward to your game created in DBP and hope its a success.
If you were creating cut scenes now you might find the new camera controls would be a big benefit in FPSC but you likely have someone to code that for you or do it yourself in DBP.

I could see this being of great use to you back then.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=197968&b=23

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 05:27 Edited at: 1st Jul 2012 06:52
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Quote: "Concidering games from rolfy or myself which aren't bad for indie standarts... you really don't like homemade games at all then?

I get why you dont like FPSC, I'm the last one to defend it...but dismissing all of our work as completely worthless and compare it to crap is hardly an objective statment. Lets just take the game "Dark Void". It was a horribly boring and repetitive game with clumsy animations and a really lazy storyline. I concidered it a huge waste of time and ...I got it for 1 Euro, so I guess thats cool. I can however see all the time and effort that was flowing in coding it, creating the characters in a 3D Interface, programming jetpack-gameplay and artdesign/3D modelling. I didn't like it, I thought it was awful but I wouldn't say completely worthless or compare it to a turd."

Both you and Rolfy do amazing work... However it is amazing work for FPSC. I'm sorry but I just don't enjoy anything that is created in FPSC and although I haven't posted, I have followed a lot of yours and Rolfy's work. It's great, but great for FPSC. Which is still terrible to me. If you two both spent the effort that you spend on FPSC on a better engine than I think you two would find yourselves creating something truly unique and remarkable. Of course, to each his own, and to me, FPSC is terrible in every way shape or form. I absolutely do not enjoy the way it plays whatsoever. You two are extremely talented, and I would say by far the most talented I've seen with FPSC, but I think you guy can both make something far better if using the right engine. Something I could see myself buying on Steam.

Quote: "Whenever I have a great Idea for a game, it will get dumbed down, sucked dry, demolished, torn apart and reduced to nothing but a roughly recognizable wreck from the original idea simply because thats all I can create in FPSC."

This is practically my entire point. So so so so so much talent is wasted because of FPSC. Let's use the 'Receiver' game as an example. That game was created in SEVEN days by only one person in Unity and in my opinion looks far better than any FPSC and I don't even think it looks that good... It looks like a game that was created in 7 days. However, the game has amazing gun mechanics and shooting specific areas of enemies to affect them differently. It's the little unique additions like that which make games amazing. And even with all the mods in FPSC, there is nothing that makes FPSC stand out. It's basic to a horrible degree. It doesn't allow you to do anything unique IMO. The only thing that could make FPSC even moderately worthwhile--the multiplayer--has been given ABSOLUTELY jack crap in updates and alone has ruined my entire experience. Even I could have a good time playing multiplayer in FPSC but I've had nothing but horrible experiences with it and TGC refuses to even give it the slightest of an update (not sure FPSC is even getting updated and when it was, for years and years it was updated for 'bugs' which has been a waste of 7 years IMO... FPSC should have been fully featured and then removed of bugs... not removed of bugs then featured because it will be full of bugs yet again. But that's a whole other story I'm not going to get into, just my bitterness for how horribly disappointing of an "engine" FPSC turned out to be.)

But anyways for those tl;dr, basically... Those like Wolf and Rolfy are wasting so much talent on FPSC because they have the skills and dedication to make something truly valuable and unique if they were to use a worthwhile engine and it genuinely upsets me that they still defend FPSC when even they haven't produced something with FPSC that is truly unique, let alone even decent in the real gaming world--outside of the FPSC community that is. Inside the FPSC community they have done wonders.
Again, you two have such great potential to make something even I could find myself buying and downloading and I absolutely hate indie gaming (yes I know, this is an indie game design forums.)

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 06:56
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I agree with Rambo, (crazy things are happening today!)

Rolfy, look at it this way. You could be the big fish in the little pond, doing pretty good stuff that will never achieve recognition, or you could easily get in with a team, and make something far greater.

Why do you choose to limit yourself, is my question? I used FPSC right up until the fabled Migration, and returned to it shortly after before I returned to UDK. All the stuff that was implemented wasn't implemented as intuitively as in other engines. UDK, Unity, Source, whatever...

With a higher-end engine and a good team, you could easily make an indie game worthy of note? Why are you tying FPSC round your neck like an anchor?
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Thraxas
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 07:25
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Quote: "Anyway, the number of really good FPSC games I've played is few, but Leviathan Crossfire is a good one"


Well I missed this game for some reason. I just downloaded it and gave it a go. I enjoyed playing it. Regardless of engine used or graphics, I play games for enjoyment. If I enjoy it, then they have done their job.

So Leviathan Crossfire is the most Epic FPSC game I have played today.

http://thraxocorp.webs.com/ Visit my totally awesome website: Thraxocorp. It's my own company and I'm totes the CEO.
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rolfy
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 08:09 Edited at: 1st Jul 2012 08:31
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Quote: "I play games for enjoyment. If I enjoy it, then they have done their job."

Thats all that matters, your opinion is valid and so is everyone else's.

Quote: "Why do you choose to limit yourself, is my question?"

I dont't feel I am limiting myself at all.

If you want to know why I wouldn't move on there are a few reasons.
First and foremost I am not a games designer, I have no ambitions to be one either, I have my own thing really when it comes to making a living and having my own artistic outlets. This doesn't mean I wouldn't take any opportunity that came my way if it was interesting enough, I am just not looking out for it.

I actually enjoy FPSC and after six years of poking around with it I still find things I didn't know were in there or simply through trial and error I find that something actually works. For the price of a game paid for this software I can honestly say I have had more hours of sheer hair pulling joy with it than I can express. Its simply a hobby and I like creating things to throw into it. This was my whole purpose when I got it.

This all takes us back to whether there are any Epic (lets just say good) FPSC games out there, you decide, but let us folks who enjoy it simply have our little bubble to chill in, we like it in here and we are fully aware of any limitations.
Its not that your opinions don't count its just that its not good form to simply put it down as a hopeless cause without saying straight off why you think that way.
Both yourself and Redneckrambo have very valid points which are interesting it just seems to have taken a while to get there.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 10:24 Edited at: 1st Jul 2012 10:32
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Quote: "If you want to know why I wouldn't move on there are a few reasons.
First and foremost I am not a games designer, I have no ambitions to be one either, I have my own thing really when it comes to making a living and having my own artistic outlets. This doesn't mean I wouldn't take any opportunity that came my way if it was interesting enough, I am just not looking out for it.

I actually enjoy FPSC and after six years of poking around with it I still find things I didn't know were in there or simply through trial and error I find that something actually works. For the price of a game paid for this software I can honestly say I have had more hours of sheer hair pulling joy with it than I can express. Its simply a hobby and I like creating things to throw into it. This was my whole purpose when I got it."

Which is completely understandable as FPSC is great for a hobbyist. It is however, terrible for true game design. Which is why there are no epic FPSC games. There are games that are good for FPSC and there may even be an "epic" game for FPSC, but that does not make it an epic game. Maybe I simply interpreted the question wrong and the question was meant as "What FPSC game have you played that was epic for FPSC, but not necessarily an epic game overall?" That however is not how I interpreted the question.

Quote: "Both yourself and Redneckrambo have very valid points which are interesting it just seems to have taken a while to get there.
"

Well my intentions weren't meant to lead to a long discussion. My post was meant to say that there are no epic FPSC games simply because there aren't. Unless people here flat out do not know the meaning of the word epic than I actually find it hard to believe that anyone here would think there are any epic FPSC games at all....
Quote: "Well I missed this game for some reason. I just downloaded it and gave it a go. I enjoyed playing it. Regardless of engine used or graphics, I play games for enjoyment. If I enjoy it, then they have done their job.
So Leviathan Crossfire is the most Epic FPSC game I have played today."

Take this for an example, just because the game was enjoyed, does not make it 'epic.' Epic is many, many levels about simply enjoyed... It may be the closest FPSC will become to 'epic' but that's still not quite there.

My whole point really to this post is that FPSC may be able to produce something you enjoy, and there are games that are 'epic' for FPSC, but 'epic' for FPSC is not an epic game in general.

Quote: "Epic (lets just say good)"

This changes the question entirely though and that's partially my point. A question like that also IMO would serve far better in FPSC Chat... Yes it's somewhat off-topic and isn't necessarily wrong in Geek Culture, but it's directed at FPSC and would have gotten better attention there.

You know what... I don't know why I even care so much to have spent so much time writing all of this. Lol. This is way, way too much mumbo jumbo about something that, quite frankly, I couldn't give a rat's butt about. So anyways, I'll bow out to stop annoying people with my bitterness towards something that can never create something epic.

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
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fallen one
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 20:16 Edited at: 1st Jul 2012 20:47
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Instead of focusing in what it can't make, focus on what it can.

Why Being Poor and Having No Budget is Good For Making Games
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwXFOgNVMww

I learned what I know about games design from The Sheen. Its not about learning how to design games, ABC, teacher says repeat after me. You have to self validate, self creation and creativity. Learn from everyone but follow no one. You can learn the process of games design, but to be hotshots, you need the mind of a games designer. Mind of a loser, be a loser, mind of a god be a god. Now I'm going to give you the mind of a games designing god, courtesy of The Sheen.
Quote: "I'm dealing with fools and trolls and soft targets. It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee. I don't have time for these clowns.
The Charlie Sheen"

Now go my children, be EPIC. Build it! In your underwear if you have to, but build it, and they will come to worship at the alter of your games godhood.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st Jul 2012 21:33
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Quote: " In your underwear if you have to"


Gimme about 10 minutes...

Quote: " Learn from everyone but follow no one. You can learn the process of games design, but to be hotshots, you need the mind of a games designer. Mind of a loser, be a loser, mind of a god be a god. Now I'm going to give you the mind of a games designing god, courtesy of The Sheen."


I like this.

To be honest, I think restrictions are great for being creative. And watching the video posting right this minute, it sounds like this is what the guy is going into. Limitations help challenge you and give you a smaller space to work in and you've got to do the best you can with it.

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jrowe
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2012 01:23
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Not meaning to offend anyone but 'EPIC' just reminds me of this...

http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=epic

WARNING: Offensive content.

For Fathers and Sons who enjoy wholy spirits.
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Quik
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2012 02:10
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Quote: "http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=epic"


Ahahaha <3 that gave me a good laugh


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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Wolf
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2012 02:19
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I'm often in my underwear sitting on my lambpelt whenever I visit the forums.



Quote: "Both you and Rolfy do amazing work... However it is amazing work for FPSC. I'm sorry but I just don't enjoy anything that is created in FPSC and although I haven't posted, I have followed a lot of yours and Rolfy's work. It's great, but great for FPSC. Which is still terrible to me. If you two both spent the effort that you spend on FPSC on a better engine than I think you two would find yourselves creating something truly unique and remarkable. Of course, to each his own, and to me, FPSC is terrible in every way shape or form. I absolutely do not enjoy the way it plays whatsoever. You two are extremely talented, and I would say by far the most talented I've seen with FPSC, but I think you guy can both make something far better if using the right engine. Something I could see myself buying on Steam."


Eh! Thanks rambo

Thing is... I can't code at all so I wouldn't do anything good with another engine. You might have seen my first UDK work around here but thats really all I've done gameworthy outside of FPSC. I actually concider the possibility of moving on towards being a gameartist/leveldesigner but thats a whole different story.

Quote: "Its not about learning how to design games, ABC, teacher says repeat after me. You have to self validate, self creation and creativity. Learn from everyone but follow no one. You can learn the process of games design, but to be hotshots, you need the mind of a games designer. Mind of a loser, be a loser, mind of a god be a god. Now I'm going to give you the mind of a games designing god, courtesy of The Sheen."


Winning!

Quote: "yes it's somewhat off-topic and isn't necessarily wrong in Geek Culture, but it's directed at FPSC and would have gotten better attention there."


Come on! The original poster hasnt even replied yet and he probably just wanted to see a bunch of games made with FPSC to extract ideas from. There are 4 games mentioned in the thread and that should be enough. To rehash:

Principality of Mars
Leviathan Crossfire
Euthanasia
and Alpha Project

I don't know why I keep posting either... I don't even remotely care and have to get to work in 4 and a half hours.

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes, art is knowing which ones to keep.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2012 02:29 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2012 02:41
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Quote: "Thing is... I can't code at all so I wouldn't do anything good with another engine. "


Huh? You aren't the Wolf that has been around since 2002 who I'm certain made some games? Had a wolf avatar?

EDIT: Found ... Ron Erickson

I think that was Wolf. I thought you were him, and was wondering why you were making so many 3D models.

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wizard of id
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2012 09:15
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Quote: "Thing is... I can't code at all so I wouldn't do anything good with another engine. You might have seen my first UDK work around here but thats really all I've done gameworthy outside of FPSC. I actually concider the possibility of moving on towards being a gameartist/leveldesigner but thats a whole different story."


I had this long rambling post, trying to explain the joyous benefits of not having to code some thing, but decided not to.The thing is FPSC DB, DP pro,AGK and what ever product they have available here, would in all likely event, get a beating and a poke with a stick from members using other engines else where on the web.

Just a fact of life, I have the bigger e-peen, because my software is better that yours, rather just annoys me now days, where I would normally just go ape manure, for narrow minded mentality with e-peen issues, I too don't give a damn about you and every one else that only sees the negative side of the software.

However the point is I have learned a great deal of stuff from using this product due to it's simplicity, than I did with any other product.

Just been chatting to my neighbours teenage daughter and it turns out she's big into UFOs and aliens.

Which is cool because tomorrow she's getting abducted.
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Bugsy
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2012 09:26
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Wow, and here I was thinking I'd find a comprehensive list of fantastic unplayed FPSC gems in this thread. look how wrong you can be. Well, since this thread has gone so far off topic it's scary, I believe I'll just go ahead and post that I personally felt as though Zombified, by Metal Devil, although slow paced, was nice and long, and something I'd classify as epic. I also liked Alpha Project, and a demo of "And Then They Came" by ASTEK. They Too were pretty epic.

however,I like to think mine's pretty epic too

imageflock.com/img/1339017643.gif[/img]
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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2012 20:03
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I'm gonna come here and put my opinion regardless of what other people say. K? K.

I never have personally liked FPSC, nor the games it produces.



(Give you all a moment to take that in)



BUT that doesn't mean a game couldn't be within someone's definition of "epic". Because everyone has their own definition of each word and how it can be used. Just like my definition of "Cool" is a high resolution photo-realistic water simulation in slow motion, but some other people might not think so.

The reason why I don't enjoy FPSC games, is because they resemble most of the crappy early 2000's WWII shooters (But some of those are really good). I personally have found myself to enjoy large scale combat such as the Battlefield or ARMA series. But does that make any of you wrong for enjoying FPSC games? NO! It just means we all have different taste. Though I might make an exception for Bugsy's game. It does look really good.

But anyways, none of you are wrong, but none of you are necessarily right either. JUST LEAVE THE SUBJECT ALONE.

http://www.talenthouse.com/travisgatlin
You can find my latest work here. Please comment on my work and tell me what you think!
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2012 21:27
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Quote: "I too don't give a damn about you and every one else that only sees the negative side of the software."

No, just no. No one here is 'only seeing the negative side of FPSC.' If you read my posts, you would see that I think FPSC is great, but it doesn't make anywhere near commercial quality. Just because I pointed out it's negative many times, doesn't mean that's all I'm seeing.

Quote: "within someone's definition of "epic""

This is what bothers me... "Their" definition of epic. That means we are changing the meaning of words. You will never hear someone, "Wow that game was crazy awesome amazing incredibly cool and super," for a game that was complete mediocrity in every way imaginable. That's what we have done to the word 'epic.' It has lost it's meaning to people. Their still is no epic FPSC game. Epic is not the right word for this conversation. If you want to make up definitions for words, that's fine go ahead, but it won't be correct. It should be, "What is your favorite FPSC game?" This is really my point and flat out bothers me. Everyone has their pet peeves. This is mine.

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
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wizard of id
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2012 21:52 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2012 21:54
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Quote: "No, just no. No one here is 'only seeing the negative side of FPSC.' If you read my posts, you would see that I think FPSC is great, but it doesn't make anywhere near commercial quality. Just because I pointed out it's negative many times, doesn't mean that's all I'm seeing."


Cool Now if you do me a smallish favour, negative and it's derivatives, that word does not exist.Penguin(skipper) Yedi hand wave you never saw any thing !!!

Actually this is my pet peeve I hate room segments that 4x4 look, Which is why I don't use it.Which is why I create custom segments.

Commercial debate, well I hate too burst your bubble, but there has actually been a game or two, may be more that we don't even know of.So that is null and void.Same quality as the big titles, well it was never created to do so, also null and void.But same graphical quality as DX9 games, is not all that far fetched, most stuff can be done.Again it is seriously the designer.As long as users use the same 4x4 design, it is going to be problematic

Just been chatting to my neighbours teenage daughter and it turns out she's big into UFOs and aliens.

Which is cool because tomorrow she's getting abducted.
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rolfy
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2012 21:56 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2012 05:00
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Quote: "An epic is a long poem detailing the adventures of a hero, or something similar to such a poem. So there a probably quite a few epic FPSC games but it doesn't necessarily mean they are good or vice versa.

Awesome is something extremely impressive or daunting; inspiring great admiration, apprehension, or fear.

I hate seeing good descriptive words diluted by shoddy usage, how do we describe things that are truly awesome and epic now?

This is what bothers me... "Their" definition of epic. That means we are changing the meaning of words. That's what we have done to the word 'epic.' It has lost it's meaning to people. Their still is no epic FPSC game. Epic is not the right word for this conversation. If you want to make up definitions for words, that's fine go ahead, but it won't be correct. It should be, "What is your favorite FPSC game?" This is really my point and flat out bothers me. Everyone has their pet peeves. This is mine."


Here you describe a phone as awesome, I could nitpick your use of such a word in that way, you even had your own brand of troll coming into that particular thread.

Quote: "I can't be the only one who thinks that is super awesome!!!!! This is the coolest thing I think I've ever done!"

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=194606&b=2&msg=2323499#m2323499

Perhaps you have your own idea of what awesome or epic actually means, why dont you just leave it alone and let others have the same freedoms you obviously have for yourself.

Just to add, you have made a lot of statements about FPSC games but not a single example to describe why you think the way you do, it would be better if you would tell us what gave you this impression and why.

I have seen you post in other threads where you clearly state that you dont play Indie games....you simply dont like them. This doesn't make you the best source of information when it comes to whether any FPSC games are epic,awesome or not, though you still seemed to have a short opinion on Amnesia, which means either you do play Indie games or you read it somewhere.
I believe Amnesia is very achievable in FPSC......just my opinion.
Weren't you the guy asking for donations for a new comp in his sig?...so you could play better games on it....this forum is awash with...yep, Indie (or at least want to be) Indie developers You either have the hide of a Hippopotamus or you don't know what your doing half the time.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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