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Geek Culture / Windows 8 Released

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 10:00 Edited at: 27th Oct 2012 10:28
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Got an email in my inbox declaring that Windows 8 has been released. I am just curious, how many people are thinking about the upgrade? I know some folks are disappointed, but I am wondering if it might be worth it. I've not tried any of the prerelease stuff, but I wouldn't mind trying to code Windows 8 Apps, especially if AppGameKit suddenly starts supporting them.

On the website I see there's a limited time offer on the upgrade to Windows 8, I'd only have to pay £24.99 to go from Windows 7 Pro to Windows 8 Pro or just get it shipped to me for £49.99. To me that's a good upgrade price. But I wouldn't want to later regret my decision if I were to jump on the Windows 8 bandwagon.

The interface is something I would get used to, as I am welcome to change and am adaptable, but my main concern would be reliability, speed, bloatedness (if it's like Vista in that respect) and compatibility. Windows 7 is pretty damn solid for me and it's runs everything I want to run, so I would just be interested in hearing what people have to say about the upgrade to 8. And if I am gonna upgrade, I might as well upgrade when I can save money on it.

[edit]
Feel I should mention, contemplating the upgrade for my laptop and also going to build a Windows 7 Gaming PC. Looking at reviews, I might actually be tempted to go ahead and take a punt.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 10:28 Edited at: 27th Oct 2012 10:29
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I went out to get a copy but it's sold out everywhere near me. So I paid for a copy and just have to wait for a new shipment to arrive. (I realise I could buy a copy direct from Microsoft and download it, but I'm materialistic)

I quite like the new interface and as I have a touch screen monitor on my desktop already I don't believe that I'll have a problem using or getting used to the new interface.

Most of the problems that I have read about involve the new interface. Maybe there are more problems and it's terrible. It cost less than $50 so if it's bad I'll just downgrade to Windows 7 and not be upset at the wasted money.

calm your breasts and stop picking on him.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 10:39 Edited at: 27th Oct 2012 10:40
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Yeah that's what I was thinking. I've heard that my old programs should still be compatible, I still play old games and found many of my old games work in Windows 7, but it sounds like they should run in Windows 8. But I am gonna build a Windows 7 gaming PC anyway. I actually like the look of the new interface and could probably work with it and I see there is also 3rd party software to add gestures to my trackpad for Windows 8, which might be useful if it's any good.

But £24.99 for an upgrade from Windows 7 Pro to Windows 8 Pro and Windows Media Centre package for free? I think that's worth the punt. Getting the WMC package for free is useful because I actually hook my laptop to my TV (we use Netflix & Lovefilm in our living room and it rarely works properly on the PS3), whilst I do have WMC on Windows 7, I figure if I'm gonna upgrade, I might as well get it whilst it's cheap and WMC is free.

And of course, as you say, if there's problems, I can downgrade. So sod it, I'm gonna backup my PC and buy this damn upgrade. Well, do the upgrade compatibility check first. I guess I'll let folks know how it goes and offer my review here, might take a while as I've got a slow internet connection.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 12:39
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I ran the upgrade assistant and I had 17 apps listed as not compatible. Most of which said update available at the bottom. Of the ones which weren't compatible 2 of them were Microsoft software which I assume is not needed in the new version as a newer version would be available.

Even if the updates weren't available they're not games I would mind not being able to play until an update became available. (e.g. Theme Hospital)

The other thing it said was that because my touchscreen monitor was not specifically designed for Windows 8 it might not be as precise as one which are.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.

calm your breasts and stop picking on him.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 12:55 Edited at: 27th Oct 2012 12:56
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I found some apps that were incompatible like VS2010 and Fraps but listed I'd need to update (a paid upgrade for Fraps) but all of the important stuff came up as compatible. Funnily enough it didn't flash VS2008 and well, I should be able to convert my Dark GDK.NET project from 2008 to 2012 anyway. I only use 2010 for Unity3D and I can use MonoDevelop with it until they have a VS2012 update for it. But most of them did just say I need an update like yours.

I'm 65% of the way through the download, I'll make a recovery disk for Windows 7 and then do the evil deed and let you know how it goes. Once I've got a feel for everything I'll write something up on my blog and link it here.

I'll test some old games, I've got Final Fantasy VIII, the new Final Fantasy VII rerelease, Age of Empires and Summoner installed, so I can boot them straight up. I've got Beneath a Steel Sky running from SCUMM VM, so I can see if that works too. On top of that I can try a couple of Steam games, Final Fantasy XI: Online and World of Warcraft and rate the performance in comparison to how they played on Windows 7 (this isn't a gaming laptop, so I'm not going to try anything resource intensive). I can test DBP and Dark GDK.NET in VC# 2008 and I can see how well MS Office 2010 runs, which is supposed to be compatible anyway.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 16:58
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I am now typing in Internet Explorer Metro on Windows 8.

Impression so far? It's actually pretty responsive and very speedy to work through. Start up was quick, though the upgrade process took quite a long time, or at least compared to installing Ubuntu. It's definitely different and it seems there's no way of getting away without using the Metro interface, even if there is a normal desktop you can access. I think moving from Windows 7 to 8 will take some getting used to, I think it'll be easier for anybody used to a touch interface, but for most Windows users, I wouldn't say it's as intuitive as other updates, but I've not had to read a manual so far to work stuff out just as long as you try right clicking stuff as well as left clicking.

But I could get used to it, maybe even like it. However, my only complaint at this present point would be this:


I have a lot of applications and I think they're logically organised, but I think the option to minimise should be a necessity because as you can see, the TGC folder on my computer has a lot of .exe files. Regardless, you can actually get through your apps list quickly and you can point stuff to your Metro start menu and it'll remember the apps you're using too. So there's ways of working around that inconvenience. Anyway, I shall go away and play some more and then write up that review.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 17:25
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Quote: " without using the Metro interface"
I have ran my ultrabook for 3 days wihtout touching metro i may have used the search function once or twice, but thats about it
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Phaelax
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 17:51
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Is there a reason MS made their interface look as plain as a 1987 application when everyone else is going the opposite route?

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
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Airslide
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 21:42
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I'm using Windows 8 at the moment on my desktop, and so far I like the speed but other than that it is so-so. It takes some getting used to navigating the new interface with a keyboard and mouse (fortunately, there are some shortcuts - my favorite is probably moving the mouse to the top-left and swiping down to reveal the multitasking pane, which you can also do with Windows Key + Tab).

I did a clean install so it will take some time to get stuff back on, but so far it does what my desktop has been regulated to recently - play games. For everything else I have OS X.
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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 02:28
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I've been using it for a few months, and it's great. It's on my laptop and haven't run into any problems with it yet.


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
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MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 08:33
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Quote: "and WMC is free. "


Where? it asks for like £6.99 or something... [W8Pro]

I got it in the morning on Saturday, had a long day and finally got it on my pc... upgrade from Win7Ultimatex64 [naturally ^^]

I only have one issue so far, 3DWorldStudio does not work on it at all... even installed the NVidia drivers for Win8... still no luck...

Loving the performance and Task manager is a beauty...

Going to check Wacom for new drivers...

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 09:44
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Quote: "Where? it asks for like £6.99 or something... [W8Pro]"


http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-8/feature-packs

Quote: "I've been using it for a few months, and it's great. It's on my laptop and haven't run into any problems with it yet."


Quote: "Loving the performance and Task manager is a beauty..."


Glad to hear you're both having a good time with it. All I've heard up until this point have been bad things about it, but also trying it for myself I've found that actually, I love it. I think the only real issue people have is the interface and once you get your head around it, it's actually really sensible and ergonomic even with a mouse.

I've found it's stable, responsive, fluid and it has decent features. There's nice little things about the interface I've discovered too that just make things more convenient. I've found so far software has been compatible, but I did wipe all of my software off, so I'll have to reinstall and try stuff out from there. Why did I wipe off all my software? I was having network issues, couldn't find the problem, tried the 'Refresh' feature and it worked. Refresh is actually a cool idea, it's like reinstalling Windows but you keep all your data. In hindsight, the network problem might have been caused by conflicting firewalls. Oh well, I needed a clean out anyway.

I tried Final Fantasy VIII yesterday and it worked straight out of the box, no tweaks and the glitches were very minor.

I'll be writing up my review today.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 10:24
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Cheers, applied just have to wait for email now

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 12:59
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No worries. I've not received my email yes, I'm guessing they're handling manually (like TGC does) rather than using an automated system.

Also, here's my review:

http://seppukuarts.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/windows-8-review/

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 14:45
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I don't even know what W8 even has in it...
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David R
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 16:21 Edited at: 28th Oct 2012 16:24
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Bit perplexed by the 'upgrade only' policy on W8 - I was interested in getting a copy for a VM due to the low price but it seems you have to upgrade from a previous version for some reason?

EDIT: There are OEM copies (for double the price) but it's not apparent whether you can clean install those either. Anyone had any experience/luck getting it clean installing?

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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Morcilla
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 16:24
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I'm using Windows 8 with a touch screen now and it is gorgeous.
All windows functionality is touch-driven, and everything runs smooth.
I'm shocked. I foresee a new golden age for microsoft

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WLGfx
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 16:38
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Microsoft makes lots of money off Windows 8

Poundland makes lots of money off screen wipes...



Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
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Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 21:40
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Quote: "I've been using it for a few months, and it's great. It's on my laptop and haven't run into any problems with it yet."


Windows 7 doesn't really give me any problems either, so why should anyone spend money to upgrade? What does Win8 offer me?

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 23:53
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New features? New interface? New toys? If not your cup of tea, then of course you don't have to upgrade as Win7 ain't going anywhere and it's still supported.

I felt the upgrade was worth the money, but to each his own.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 29th Oct 2012 04:26
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I think if you have an underpowered system, then the upgrade will likely be fruitless aside from the lovely modern UI I love it and love it's isolated approach... makes social and work life's controllable...

By under powered I mean you do not have an SSD or modern quad core CPU etc...

IE10 though coming to Win7 soon is sooooo great! and the performance I have is fabulous, and the all important TASK MANAGER is sooo cute now... don't you agree Sepp?

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Dazzag
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Posted: 29th Oct 2012 15:25 Edited at: 29th Oct 2012 15:25
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Hmm. Without a touchscreen (dual monitors but apparently the upgrade program says my smaller one isn't compatible with "app snapping" eh?) then I'm not sure I want to, especially after some negative reviews I've read online. Plus not that wise to get an OS so early if using it as a development machine...

Main thing though is work. I use Citrix to connect to the work computers in the UK, and without it I'm stuffed to do my job. The upgrade program didn't list it as compatible or not. Obviously I would want hobby apps like AppGameKit and Unity to work too, but I can take a hit if you have to wait a little time for upgrades, unlike Citrix which would leave me broke without work. No other method allowed by work, although I'm unsure if it works in other OS'es. The older method before Citrix wouldn't work on my Linux or Mac machines for example (luckily I have a few machines).

So my main concerns would be:-
1. Can I test it out through VMWare/Virtual PC (I already use XP in VMWare to connect to a client in Dubai is so paranoid all other connections on the PC are cut off once you connect, hence using VMWare instead of a 2nd PC like I used to)?
2. Can I rollback easily to what I had before? Specifically it doesn't then think my Windows licence is for Win8 so Win7 won't activate again (eg. if do full backup then fully restore after Win8 testing)
3. Can I dualboot with the upgrade version? Or do I have to purchase full price?
4. It says I can upgrade from Win7 Premium to Win8 Pro for about 30 Euros. No option for Ultimate?
5. Really is there any point if it isn't a touchscreen device? Sounds a bit annoying if using the mouse. And a touchscreen monitor just feels all sorts of wrong. ie. lean over a bit too hard to press screen, screen topples off desk etc. Do you have to stupidely move the mouse around as if you are using a touchscreen? Would get old quickly I think

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
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mr Handy
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Posted: 29th Oct 2012 16:12 Edited at: 29th Oct 2012 16:13
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When I showed W8 to my mother, "look, that's a new casual OS for you!", after 30 minutes she was like [ಠ_ಠ] "get me my win 7 back NOW"
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Libervurto
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Posted: 29th Oct 2012 20:34 Edited at: 29th Oct 2012 20:36
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Have they made any changes to the file structure? I don't know why they persist with such a disorganised and, as I'm lead to believe, non-secure way of organising files. I've seen a video featuring the "App Store" is that a more integrated way of purchasing and installing software like Ubuntu's Software Centre?

I have a gut feeling that Windows 8 will fail. It seems like a big change, which unfortunately scares people away to begin with, and I've heard Microsoft are trying to squeeze software developers by creating this "App Store" that is controlled by MS. I'm probably biased against MS and don't have any first-hand experience of the OS so you can take that with a pinch of salt.

Shh... you're pretty.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 29th Oct 2012 23:39
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Quote: "look, that's a new casual OS for you"


I hate how the word casual gets thrown around when discussing things these days. "It's all being dumbed down for casuals!". Why should an OS be for 'hardcore' users only?

I also believe if a Linux distro had come out with this new interface people would be "OMG this is totes the best thing ever, the Windows start menu sucks!".

calm your breasts and stop picking on him.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Oct 2012 09:36
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I think also the problem with the 'casual' label is that many casuals are probably already used to Windows 7 and thus the concept of change would not suit them, even if the interface turns out to be more convenient if they choose to learn a new OS.

And I agree an OS should be accessible to all. But as a hardcore user, I do actually like the new interface...maybe I'm nuts.

Quote: "Have they made any changes to the file structure? I don't know why they persist with such a disorganised and, as I'm lead to believe, non-secure way of organising files. I've seen a video featuring the "App Store" is that a more integrated way of purchasing and installing software like Ubuntu's Software Centre?"


File structure is the same and the App Store is like Ubuntu's Software Centre in a sense, it's mostly Metro Apps but there are some desktop apps in there. So it's somewhere in between Ubuntu's and the iOS App Store.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 30th Oct 2012 10:53 Edited at: 30th Oct 2012 10:54
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Quote: "And I agree an OS should be accessible to all. But as a hardcore user, I do actually like the new interface...maybe I'm nuts."


I like it too. I think it's way faster than the traditional start menu. I think it's just a case of haters gonna hate.

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 14:09 Edited at: 31st Oct 2012 14:10
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My copy arrived, I installed it. Ran it. Turned off my pc and when I went to turn it back on, it says something about automatic repair. Fails automatic repair and there is no way to boot up at all.

It won't refresh or restore. In fact everything fails. It directs me to an error log on D:/windows. Which confuses me as my windows install should be in C drive. It won't even repair from my recovery disc.

Not sure what to do at all. :-(

calm your breasts and stop picking on him.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 14:31
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That sucks You may have to do a fresh reinstall. Hopefully you took backups!

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
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mr Handy
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 15:06 Edited at: 31st Oct 2012 15:07
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Quote: ""It's all being dumbed down for casuals!""

You are wrong, casual means more user-friendly, that is good. And W8 failed.

p.s. don't mix up casual games and user-friendly OS!
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 20:46 Edited at: 31st Oct 2012 20:46
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User-friendly is highly subjective. I'd say it is more user friendly, but for casual users? If they already know Windows 7 they'll find Windows 7 more user friendly. For example, my mum would fall under the 'casual user' category, but she's an Apple Mac user, so she knows her way around a Mac and to her that's what's user friendly and what's most sensible. She hates using Windows, if she tries it, she'll be confused - she has tried using my laptop with Windows 7 to browse the internet and doesn't always get along with it.

So 'user friendliness' to casual users is hard to measure by those terms, because casual users tend to prefer to stick to what they know because they already know it rather than learning something new.

I would measure user friendliness on the ergonomics of design and how quickly and efficiently I can use that interface. I found now that I know how to use Windows 8's functions I find that it is more ergonomic than Windows 7. For example, if I wanted to boot up Internet Explorer from the start menu, it'd be a quicker process for me in Windows 8 and it'd be quick and easy to find. The same goes for any of the Apps I have in metro because of how it's laid out and how responsive it is.

Quote: "My copy arrived, I installed it. Ran it. Turned off my pc and when I went to turn it back on, it says something about automatic repair. Fails automatic repair and there is no way to boot up at all.

It won't refresh or restore. In fact everything fails. It directs me to an error log on D:/windows. Which confuses me as my windows install should be in C drive. It won't even repair from my recovery disc.

Not sure what to do at all. :-("


Ouch. Not sure why that might have happened. Hope you did the sensible thing and backed up your data. I make sure I do it before I'm about to make any major system changes because there's always a chance it'll balls up. On the bright side, you do get a certain number of days tech support from MS, so it might be worth giving them a ring.

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Indicium
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 20:52
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I never worry about backing up before doing updates anymore, I know that all the files I'll need are on either Dropbox, Google Drive (which really needs to have a linux version!) or available via FTP at one of the various web severs I use. All the software is easily reinstalled.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 21:28 Edited at: 31st Oct 2012 21:29
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I tend to back up to internet and my external HDD every so often because you never know what'll happen. I have had a computer and my USB backup fail at the exact same time, but luckily what I needed was also backed up on the internet. So I actually quite paranoid when it comes to my data and losing it - so multiple backups FTW. And every so often I hear people regretting they didn't back something up. Yes, doing backups is inconvenient, but if that data really is important to you, you'd be an idiot not to protect it.

EDIT

I accept the possibility that I may have just called a Mod an idiot, depends on whether or not he backed up his drive. If you don't hear from me again, you'll know why.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 21:42
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I like how User-friendly is constantly being applied to CURRENT USERS and not to NEW USERS to which I imagine it is intended to be used towards...

Just my view...

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TheComet
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 22:08
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Yes... It is rather user-friendly... Perhaps it was intended to be used by... normal users...

lol...

...TheComet

- The codebase
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Thraxas
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 22:31
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No I won't lose any data if I have to reformat the drive. It will just be an inconvenience and lost time.

I'm just at a complete loss as to what caused it and why it's stuck in this automatic repair loop. If I go to the command prompt and read the log file it creates it says every test passed successfully. So if everything checks out why does it not load windows?

I'll give MS a ring later. I've always had good experiences with their customer support in the past.

Idiot would be a step up from what I usually get called when talking with forum people

calm your breasts and stop picking on him.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 22:38
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You could give second a second upgrade installation a try. AFAIK you can reinstall the same version of windows over and over without doing a reformat.

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 31st Oct 2012 22:41
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I love you too TheComet

Thraxas did you try the other option or does it force you into repair mode?

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st Nov 2012 00:01
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Quote: "Idiot would be a step up from what I usually get called when talking with forum people"


What about sweetheart?

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 1st Nov 2012 01:45
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Could be worse, a serious typing accident may result in the fatal word, sweat-throat.

"That's what"
-She
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st Nov 2012 19:14
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lol

Another cool thing I've noticed with the Windows 8 App store is that they've got some Xbox Live games in there and found that on my measly Intel GMA laptop that the ones I've tried not only run great but also look good.

For example, Hydro Thunder. Generally I wouldn't get away with water shaders in a game like Hydro Thunder there and normally I wouldn't expect a smooth play through, so it seems they're pretty well optimised in Win 8. Bear in mind also I get 15-30 fps in WoW when settings are on lowest, I must be getting between 30 and 60 in HT.



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Flatlander
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Posted: 29th Nov 2012 22:15
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Since it's release on November 1st, MS claims there has been 40 million copies sold of Win8. They're trying to get me to update and do an app using Win8. I'm not sure yet.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Nov 2012 23:16
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It's actually a good upgrade, though different and not necessarily everybody's cup of tea, but I am pleased with the upgrade myself. There may be some incompatibilities, as is the case on every OS upgrade.

If you want to code a Win 8 App, then I guess it's a must, but no reason you can't partition your drive and make it a secondary OS should it not be your cup of tea.

I love Windows 8...so much so, I am posting this message from Ubuntu.

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Flatlander
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Posted: 29th Nov 2012 23:38 Edited at: 29th Nov 2012 23:39
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Seppuka Arts, did you have any problems with older apps -- older that Windows 7 and even older than VISTA? Windows 7 was still compatible with everything and all of the older Windows APIs.

I'm glad you really like it. If I would trust anyone it would be you. Well, there are a few others I would trust.

Personally, I have no problem with the new look and the new interface (UI). I'm finally getting used to my android so . . .

Addendum:

Oh, and does DBPro work with it do you know?

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MrValentine
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Posted: 30th Nov 2012 00:00 Edited at: 30th Nov 2012 00:05
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Quote: " I am posting this message from Ubuntu."


Looks to me like someone has been playing with Hyper-V >_<

EDIT

F l a t l a n d e r I only had issues with OpenGL (old versions at least) based applications... For now... Such as 3DWS

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Nov 2012 10:40
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Quote: "Looks to me like someone has been playing with Hyper-V >_<
"


Nope, I dual-boot.


Quote: "Seppuka Arts, did you have any problems with older apps -- older that Windows 7 and even older than VISTA? Windows 7 was still compatible with everything and all of the older Windows APIs."


In terms of compatibility, most of the programs and games I use work fine. Apps: Dark Basic Pro, Silo, Carrara, 3D Coat, MS Office 2010, MilkShape 3D, Multimedia Fusion 2 (demo), Windows Live Writer, yEd Graph Editor, Celtx, MapScape, Visual Studio 2012 (it would be a massive fail if it didn't) and Dark GDK.NET. They all work. I've not tried any other apps.

In terms of older games: Age of Empires III, Summoner, Final Fantasy VIII, they work perfectly. Neverwinter Nights runs, but is really sluggish, but I've yet to determine if it's Windows 8's fault or a driver issue - when I get my gaming laptop back from being repaired I'll be able to test it on Vista, then upgrade it to 8 and test it again.

What haven't I been able to run? Gile[s] won't run at all, which I'll admit, I am disappointed by because it's an ace tool for baking lightmaps. MapScape wouldn't run natively and needed to be troubleshooted before it'd run. MS insisted that if it ran on 7 it'll run on 8. Unfortunately, it's not true for the case of 3DWS and Gile[s].


If you're unsure and are thinking of taking the punt, I would back everything up and make sure you can recover your previous OS. I made sure I created recovery disks of Windows 7 first and I've got all my data backed up. Unfortunately you can never guarantee that nothing will go wrong, hence I always approach tech with caution.

Aside from any compatibility issues on some programs (which, unfortunately, you expect on an upgrade), the OS surprised me and pleasantly so. I was worried I was being stupid in taking a punt because I had heard lots of bad things. For me, it has been amazingly stable and really smooth - not only has MS been flashy, but they've taken into account performance and made it speedy, unlike when they were trying to be flashy with Vista, where 7 had to come in and save its butt. I think in that respect MS has learned from their mistake.

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