Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Program Announcements / Forester Pro - 3D model tree generator

Author
Message
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 14:28
Link
Announcing Forester Pro – a windows application created with DBPro to create 3D models trees.

Forester Pro generates an unlimited variety of model trees based on tree type templates including conifers, deciduous trees, palms and jungle trees and exports to Collada format files that can be imported into most 3D editing software including Blender, and then exported in any format, including as X files for DBPro. Forester can also automatically generate LODs and fallen trees.

Forester Pro has powerful tree editing functions allowing model trees to be generated randomly and posed in realtime, including deformation functions and per pixel editing. In the registered version of Forester custom templates can be created allowing users to generate their own unique types of tree.

The free version Forester Lite can be downloaded from our website and can be used to generate an unlimited number of random trees from seven different tree types. Models created with Forester Lite can be used royalty free in non-commercial projects and for development.

http://www.hptware.co.uk/forester.htm

All models in this jungle scene were created with Forester Pro in minutes.

[img]null[/img]

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 21:59
Link
Nice textures.

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 24th Nov 2012 00:10
Link
Yup, Very nice...

But something troubles me...

Quote: "exports to Collada format files that can be imported into most 3D editing software including Blender, and then exported in any format, including as X files for DBPro. "


Excuse me for being the annoying one, but if this was made within DBP, can you explain why you cannot export to .DBO or .X? why Collada?

It looks nice, but I already have TreeMagikG3+PlantLife maybe if you made a video of the product in action

Back to top
Profile PM
BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 24th Nov 2012 13:21 Edited at: 24th Nov 2012 13:23
Link
Quote: "maybe if you made a video of the product in action"


http://www.youtube.com/user/HPTWare

I agree that you should export to dbo/x to cater for the community here.

It's an impressive display of mesh manipulation in DBP.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 24th Nov 2012 14:26
Link
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the encouraging words. What DBPro does better than anything else is make it easy to manipulate meshes, it would be a nightmare do this using Unity or Torque.

The decision to export to Collada was quite deliberate. Collada is supported by Torque3d, Unity etc. It is also easy to convert Collada to X format for DBPro using by Blender, Maya etc. I know it adds one extra step.

I have an old X exporter for meshes knocking around so if there is demand, I'll see if I can add it into the launch of the first bug release.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
BlackFox
FPSC Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th May 2008
Location: Knight to Queens Bishop 3
Posted: 24th Nov 2012 15:42
Link
My wife took this for a test run and finds it very easy to use. Since we work in Torque3d and Unity as well, the export to collada and bringing into the engine worked great for her. If she needs it in X format, it is an extra step but nothing she can't handle already. She also likes the bend/twist feature and made some pretty wicked looking trees.

One can never have too many tree generator applications, so we will be adding this to our purchase list. Thanks for all the work on this.


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
Back to top
Profile PM
Kezzla
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2008
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 24th Nov 2012 16:28
Link
Hi, your software looks pretty cool and I want to try it out.

I get an error message when I try to run the demo

"Runtime error 1507 - Display using 32 bit is not supported by available hardware at line 0"

I sometimes used to get similar errors when setting my screen resolution however cannot replicate it right now.

it revolved around setting my resolution to 1366x768 not working and instead having to use 1360x768 even though the former was my desktop resolution.

if your program is auto-detecting the desktop resolution that could be it.

kezzla

Back to top
Profile PM
MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 24th Nov 2012 20:08
Link
I could not tolerate the YouTube videos... please make fresh videos, I say this in your support...

I do not know if there is such a feature, but perhaps try implementing a BLOOM effect shader within the editor to allow a visual idea for users, I think this will be handy for pre-Implementation, maybe they have a particular tree design for a particular effect/result... maybe look at other .FX types to implement, like bump mapping or something... add some flair

I may look at trying this out in future when I have some spare cash and just want to buy some dev stuff to satisfy my cravings ^^

Keeping posted for the time being

Back to top
Profile PM
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 25th Nov 2012 18:53
Link
Again thanks for all the comments.

Kezzla, yes Forester does check for screen mode and should set the highest resolution suitable for 32 bit. Clearly it is trying to set a screen resolution at 32 when your system can only do 16 at that resolution. We'll test and see if we can address this. I'll post once we know.

MrValentine. Yes the YouTube videos are very dull aren't they, but hopefully they help explain concepts. I agree they are not sparklingly exciting. When we release template packs that add more content we'll do something a bit more eye-catching.

We did consider adding more effects, but we noticed a significant slow down. But you are right for application like DBPro it would be useful to try some more effects. We'll look into a preview mode allowing users to view with a variety of effects. This will be a little bit down the line.

Thanks for the comments. Do feel free to make suggestions and say what you like and don't like about Forester so we can make it an even better and more useful tool.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Chris Tate
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 26th Nov 2012 14:50
Link
Damn; I wish this came out a few months ago; I've already bought three tree generator tools; plus blender's tree generation features.

Looks good though.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
James H
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Apr 2007
Location: St Helens
Posted: 27th Nov 2012 02:05 Edited at: 27th Nov 2012 02:32
Link
looks good
what price tag you sticking on this?
also please please please provide .x and/or .dbo export, now I gotta set some path in blender just to import dae :/ ok maybe a minor issue but its just as annoying as not having .x export
good job though
regards

edit:
well it isnt even as simple as setting a path in script file, some bugs with blender version I normally use exist so I opted for diferent version of blender - which is completely different to what Im used to and doesnt have a .x exporter, I will get it working but it would be miles easier for anyone wishing to sample the output in dbp to have .x/.dbo export available, I guess what Im getting at is that most might overlook this if they cant get it working right away as dbp is usually a tool for knocking stuff together quickly...just saying
Back to top
Profile PM
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 27th Nov 2012 21:12
Link
Forester Update v1.01

We've made a couple of changes to our code to help those who are receiving display errors. Forester now will set minimum display settings if a working display mode cannot be found.

If you've already installed Forester you can update to the latest version using:

http://www.hptware.co.uk/downloads/foresterupdate101.zip

Otherwise you can download the entire package from our website.

http://www.hptware.co.uk/forester.htm

To export X files from Blender you can download an install a plugin. A collada importer and exporter comes as part of the latest version of Blender. I've never had to do anything more than go to file>import>Collada. Collada can also be imported by Maya, 3Ds Max etc.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 29th Nov 2012 05:52
Link
Couldn't you just add an extra option to export the meshes as X or DBO from within the program? I see no reason to support only a single file format.

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Kezzla
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2008
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 29th Nov 2012 06:35
Link
hi, I still get the same error message.

I have a HP Pavilion G series laptop
AMD dual core 1.9 ghz -A4-3399
1 gig Radeon graphics
windows 7 64 bit
screen res 1366 X 768 32bit

maybe your exe is loading with a higher screen res as default before checking the screen res of the users machine.

That's the only thing i can think of.

Quote: "
Couldn't you just add an extra option to export the meshes as X or DBO from within the program?"

I too would like to see that option. even just the DBO would suit me.

When I make plant media I just want to blast out a whole lot of different plant models to a folder and just have them all ready to go, rather than having to then open each one up and convert it to another format. especially when with dbpro is is so easy to save as a dbo file.

Back to top
Profile PM
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 1st Dec 2012 13:09
Link
Hi Kezzla,

Wierd, Forester tries to select the highest res possible at highest depth. It tests for the availability of each display mode using perform checklist for display modes then tests the display mode before setting it with <b>check display mode</b>.

You say that sometimes you get similar errors with other applications. Perhaps your graphics card has an issue. However, I want to provide a fix for you. Tell you what, just for you, I'll write in a way that you can specify the screen mode in the ini file manually.

Should be done by later today.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 1st Dec 2012 15:46
Link
We've updated Forester Pro to address problems with display modes. The changes are:

(1) Default exe mode set to 800x600
(2) Display mode check and set performed before anything else.
(3) Display mode on start-up can be specified by creating a text file screenmode.ini in the Forester directory with three lines of data in the order screen width, screen height, screen depth.

Hopefully this will solve your problem.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 5th Dec 2012 21:28
Link
Dear All,

Due to popular demand we've now included an option to export Forester Pro models to Dark Basic in DBO format. Forester will export the high res model, LODs and billboard for Dark Basic and creates a dba script file for rapid testing and implementation of the models including swapping between LODs.

The new features are available in version 1.04 and above. This can be downloaded from our website, an updater is also available if you have already downloaded and installed Forester.

http://www.hptware.co.uk/forester.htm

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 5th Dec 2012 21:42 Edited at: 5th Dec 2012 21:44
Link
Very nice, but hopefully you will have .X for the next release

Now the only thing preventing me from buying this is the USD tag... can you not mark it in Pound Sterling as well?

EDIT

Also you might want to make mention of any VAT if any, or if none too...

Back to top
Profile PM
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 5th Dec 2012 23:47
Link
There will be a long wait for an X exporter I am afraid.

Payments are through Paypal and they'll convert it to pounds for you and give you the total price. The amount depends on their rate. VAT is included.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 6th Dec 2012 00:16
Link
One last curious question... '.co.uk' and yet only accepting Dollars?

My point being, how come you are only accepting Dollars? it does result in extra costs for the end user at present a £0.79p increase, not a huge deal, but it does make a slight difference...

I do not mean to nit-pick but I think without feedback, nothing changes no?

Fair enough for the DBO export, I could simply convert to .X easier than Collada thank you for taking the time to implement that feature



Back to top
Profile PM
Kezzla
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2008
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 6th Dec 2012 01:01
Link
Thankyou GrumpyOne, you software now works on my machine, and the trees look great!

I am very impressed by the quality of the models and textures, the controls are easy to understand and use.

Back to top
Profile PM
tschwarz
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Feb 2005
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posted: 6th Dec 2012 02:24
Link
"Forester will export the high res model, LODs and billboard for Dark Basic"

was what I was waiting for, thanks - just placed my order.
Back to top
Profile PM
Stab in the Dark software
Valued Member
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Dec 2002
Playing: Badges, I don't need no stinkin badges
Posted: 6th Dec 2012 20:04
Link
Is one tree model made up of several objects or several limbs?
If a tree is one object with many limbs, do the limbs have a hierarchy?
FYI DBpro will save out the proper limb hierarchy but does not load it back in correctly.
This is a know bug in DBpro.

[img][/img]


WindowsXP SP3,Vista,Windows 7 SP1, DBpro v7.7RC7
Stab In The Dark Editor
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 21st Dec 2012 13:22
Link
Hi,

Yes, the tree models have many limbs. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Try it for yourself with the free version, it seems to import fine. Download to export of your first tree in about 3 mins.

Actually model file format I find is one of Dark Basic's main draw backs. However, Dark Basic is a joy to use for coding. For example, we've just updated Forester so it can export Collada specifically for Unity. There was an issue with the alpha channel of our PNG images which needed parsing of the image file and rewriting the alpha channel during export. To my amazement it took only 3 hours to get this complicated task completed in Dark Basic.

I get the feeling Dark Basic can do anything and everything. In fact I might let it cook Christmas dinner.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Duffer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Feb 2003
Location: chair
Posted: 21st Dec 2012 17:46
Link
@ GrumpyOne - I've purchased (and a tree pack) presume I download the lite version then add in the registration code...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Back to top
Profile PM Email
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 24th Dec 2012 11:54
Link
Sorry for the delay Duffer!

Absolutely, download the lite version and add your registration code to activate the full version. We do it this way so you can ensure it does what you want before you buy (and you can create models from 7 tree types).

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Duffer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Feb 2003
Location: chair
Posted: 24th Dec 2012 16:21
Link
@ GrumpyOne,

No probs. Just trying to get some time to experiment with it now...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Back to top
Profile PM Email
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 18th Jan 2013 01:01 Edited at: 19th Apr 2013 19:29
Link
We've now launched a series of tree template packs for Forester Pro. Each template can be used to generate random tree models of a different type, or you could create your own custom templates with your own textures and meshes. The tree packs are:

Conifer Pack 1


Jungle Pack 1


Palm Pack 1


Temperate Tree Pack 1


Find more information on the tree packs at:

http://www.hptware.co.uk/tree_packs.htm

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 18th Jan 2013 01:04 Edited at: 18th Jan 2013 01:06
Link
Sorry, the palm tree pack image seems not to want to show in the forum.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 18th Jan 2013 06:32
Link
Your accessr ights may not be set for public...

Also the URL link there is dead too...

Also, perhaps make the 10$ price for the packs a bit more BOLD So that it stands out more



Liking what I am seeing!

Back to top
Profile PM
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 19th Jan 2013 01:24
Link
Cheers MrValentine,

link works now.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 26th Jan 2013 00:58 Edited at: 26th Jan 2013 01:00
Link
We've just launched the Autumn Tree Pack 1 for Forester Pro featuring templates for autumnal Oaks, London Planes, Birch, Hornbeam, Horse Chestnut and ferns. Each template can be used to generate randomized models and can be used as the basis of your own customized models.



Tree packs cost $10 and can be downloaded from the website.
http://www.hptware.co.uk/forester.htm

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 27th Jan 2013 23:55
Link
We've had some questions about what you get in tree template packs.

A tree template in Forester Pro is like a tree type, it can make a huge variety of tree models just by changing a few of the properties.

Just to illustrate the variety you can achieve using a single tree template, we've taken our Autumn London Plane template, one of six released in our new Autumn Tree Template Pack 1, and just changed a few of the properties of the template, such as branch pitch angle, length, and spawn heights, to generate the variety of models shown below. This lot took us around 30 minutes to create and export.



Then use them to create scenes with plenty of variety:



GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 26th Mar 2013 16:45 Edited at: 26th Mar 2013 16:46
Link
We've just launched the Conifer Tree Pack 2 for Forester Pro featuring templates for Cedar of Lebanon, Deodar Cedar, Noble Fir, Pyrenean Pine, Sawarra Cedar and Heather. Each template can be used to generate randomized models and can be used as the basis of your own customized models.



Tree packs cost $10 and can be downloaded from the website.
http://www.hptware.co.uk/forester.htm

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 7th Apr 2013 19:22 Edited at: 7th Apr 2013 19:24
Link
Temperate Tree Pack 2 Released

Forester Pro is a tree creator for Dark Basic that creates randomly generated tree models as X format files.

We've just released our seventh tree template pack, Temperate Tree Pack 2, which includes the following templates:



Models created using the pack are ideal in creating temperate environment scenes:



Tree Template Packs cost $10 and require the registered version of Forester Pro.

Forester Pro and tree template packs can be downloaded from our website. Forester Pro includes a free version that comes with a range of free tree templates.

http://www.hptware.co.uk/forester.htm[b]

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Renco
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Apr 2013
Location: Ireland
Posted: 8th Apr 2013 23:08
Link
I bought this program and found it very useful. It would be nice if there was a randomise button to the left of screen instead of pressing file/new everytime.

Found a bug when you press shift+ right mouse button it says warning did not find fposition and the program locks ip.

overall its a good easy to use program with directx (.x) export.
Any chance we can get more tree types with the base pro model
Back to top
Profile PM
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 13th Apr 2013 02:28
Link
Glad you like it Renco.

Just press space to randomize a model, that will generate a new random version of the current tree. Will try replicate the bug, we haven't encountered it yet.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 13th Apr 2013 02:38 Edited at: 13th Apr 2013 02:41
Link
Savannah Tree Pack Released

We've just released our eighth tree template pack, Savannah Tree Pack, which includes the following templates:



Randomized models created with this pack are ideal in creating Africa scenes such as shown below:



Tree Template Packs cost $10 and require the registered version of Forester Pro.

Forester Pro and tree template packs can be downloaded from our website. Forester Pro includes a free version that comes with a range of free tree templates.

http://www.hptware.co.uk/forester.htm

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 14th Apr 2013 04:19 Edited at: 14th Apr 2013 04:25
Link
Ah, now this is a seriously cool program. Looks so much better than TreeMagik (TreeMagik is good, but the graphics it creates are old by today's standards). You should really make this available via the TGC website for increased publicity and buyer trust.

Regarding resolutions... DBPro's perform checklist for display modes command is pretty much useless (trust me when I say this; I've been using DBPro for 3 years constantly). It regularly detects resolutions that actually cannot be handled by the graphics card/monitor and never seems to detect widescreen resolutions. It also often returns garbage values for some resolutions. By far the best way to handle this is to do what I do every time. I put the following code at the top of every single one of DBPro projects:



Of course the line most relevant to you is set display mode desktop width(),desktop height(),32. You can safely assume every single person on the face of the planet uses 32 bit displays. Even CRT monitors from 2000 are 32 bit. If you need VSync, add ",1" to the end of that line.

Also, this error...

"Runtime error 1507 - Display using 32 bit is not supported by available hardware at line 0"

...almost never means what it says. It will come up every time you try to set a resolution that it not supported, regardless of bit depth. This most commonly occurs when using perform checklist for display modes.

To sum up...

- The default resolution should ALWAYS be set display mode desktop width(),desktop height(),32 as this is completely reliable.

- You can use perform checklist for display modes, but NEVER use it to obtain the default resolution, and use it carefully because it can return unsupported modes.

I'm seriously considering buying this (even if $40 is a lot for me), but would strongly prefer to buy it through the TGC website if you would add it there. Even so I'm very glad you offer payment via PayPal. I'd never buy it if it required direct credit card access.

Again, contact TGC about putting it on their website. It's easy and quick and it's really great for spreading the word. Plus they may even add the program to their newsletter Also, many, many users of TGC products DO NOT check the forums often or at all, and absolutely no one is going to know your website exists, so the TGC newsletter and on their website will promote this product greatly.

Clonkex



Placement Editor Professional
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 14th Apr 2013 04:48
Link
Just tried the free version...it's awfully slow. And the controls are bad. Have you ever tried TreeMagik? If not, try it, because it has a really excellent interface, even if it is a bit old. Once you've realised how annoying your interface is compared to TreeMagik, make yours more like TreeMagik's.

Again, sloooooow. There's absolutely no reason for it to be that slow. It's rendering a single game-quality tree. Where's the slow-down?

Clonkex



Placement Editor Professional
Back to top
Profile PM Email
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 17th Apr 2013 15:40
Link
Hi Clonkex,

Thanks for the suggestion on display modes, that is an interesting solution.

I liked TreeMagik when it came out, but I was constantly frustrated with it because all the trees it made pretty much looked the same. I never discovered how to make a decent pine or palm with it. The interface has nice sliders but you couldn't really change the look of the tree in a predictable manner.

Forester's interface was designed with flexibility in mind. The tree library contains all the tree templates with a preview, including custom templates you've made yourself. The idea was you can create a randomized tree model with one click of the tree library. But Forester also needed to let you change all the properties that define the tree. Initially we tried a nice simple menu with a few sliders, but as we increased the complexity of the tree models (e.g. adding knots, function bends, custom cross-sections, custom profiles) we realized there were just too many properties for a simple menu, hence the somewhat daunting menu of numbers.

Forester Pro can be quite slow and clunky, in particular on low spec machines. On my Alienware x17 it takes 3 secs to generate the Sycamore model, and when using a program, 3 secs seems like forever. Largely this is due to the number of calculations required to generate the mesh....there is a lot of vector math involved in controlling deforming branches, updating their positions on a parent branch whose mesh is also allowed to deform. Calculating the effects of gravity and growth on leaves is also iterative. Largely Forester Pro is slower than TreeMagik because it has more to do. However, I agree, it is slow, and we will probably look into whether the code can be optimized.

Best,
Grumpyone

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 17th Apr 2013 16:01 Edited at: 17th Apr 2013 16:04
Link
Well it's not so much the amount of time it takes to generate trees (which is a lot, of course) that annoys me so much as the slow speeds the program runs even when not doing anything. Surely there are no complex calculations running when you're just rotating the camera.

Another thing is the dialogues (such as Preferences or Export) have to be clicked twice to make them open (the first time only) and are all very slow to open, close and respond. Why does Export take a whole second to close when I click Cancel? If it's the GUI library you're using that's making it slow, consider using BBB Gui.

Quote: "we will probably look into whether the code can be optimized."


You do that, because as it is, it's far too slow for me to use and I won't be buying it until it's usable. I know I sound harsh but that's just the way it is.

Clonkex



Placement Editor Professional
Back to top
Profile PM Email
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 17th Apr 2013 22:11 Edited at: 17th Apr 2013 22:19
Link
Clonkex,

Forester Pro uses Blue GUI, which has some bugs (such as the odd double clicking of the menu bar items), but seems to have more features than BBB GUI appears to have.

Can I ask what system and graphics card are you using? It takes less than 300 millisecs to close the export menu on my system. The materials menu are the worst, a whole second to open and close them, because they have a lot of thumbnails to load up.

I'm sorry that you consider a program unusable. If the export menu is taking a whole second to close I can see how this would require a little patience. You are a tool developer, so I am sure you agree you do your best to support as many systems as possible, but it is difficult to support low end machines. We've tested Forester Pro on quite a few different computers and we certainly wouldn't suggest using it on slower systems (it is pretty much unusable on winXP machines with <1Gb Ram and graphics cards with less than 500 Mb on board memory).

Anyway, thanks for sharing your views on the forum. We'll look into BBB GUI.

Best,
GrumpyOne

p.s. Btw I think you should have called yours Placement Editor Extreme....the acronym is cool.

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 18th Apr 2013 01:00
Link
Interesting. I am glad you brought this up Clonkex.

I've just been going through benchmarking the code. Ninety percent of the overhead during tree creation and loading is in the two following commands. I am very surprised.

convert object FVF
set object effect

Both commands relate to shaders. We'll do some further work and see if optionally turning off shaders will give a performance boost for lower spec systems.

Best,
GrumpyOne

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 18th Apr 2013 04:07 Edited at: 18th Apr 2013 04:15
Link
Quote: "Can I ask what system and graphics card are you using? It takes less than 300 millisecs to close the export menu on my system. The materials menu are the worst, a whole second to open and close them, because they have a lot of thumbnails to load up."


I use an Acer Aspire laptop. Not my first choice for gaming (I do lots of gaming) but my old rig was....well, old. There was a massive sale on and this was a good compromise. It's mid-range and can play most new games at a decent speed with most settings at low-medium. Here are the specs:

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
CPU: Quad-core AMD A8-3500M - 1.50GHz each core
GPU1: AMD Radeon HD 6400M (Dedicated)
GPU2: AMD Radeon HD 6620G (Integrated, part of the CPU)
RAM: 8 Gigabytes

Quote: "it is difficult to support low end machines."


My laptop, while not the best, is certainly not low-end. And I would disagree that it's difficult to support low-end machines. Sure, it takes planning, but that's what you do. If you plan to support older machines from get-go you should have no troubles.

I despise companies that try their best to push old technologies down the drain. You'd be surprised just how many people actually can't afford to buy that new DX11 graphics card and then most game companies go and force their games to be DX11-only. It sucks. That's why all my games for a long time are going to support x86 Windows XP machines with almost no graphics card to speak of

Quote: "Both commands relate to shaders. We'll do some further work and see if optionally turning off shaders will give a performance boost for lower spec systems."


That's really great news because I would love to use Forester Pro if I could...just not if it's unpleasant to use. Having owned this computer for some time (a year?), I know for a fact that it doesn't handle shaders well. What are you using shaders for? Surely you could be just rendering the trees as they are.

Also I wouldn't use Convert Object FVF if I were you. With ~2500 vertices in a single tree that command will be slow. Instead I recommend taking advantage of the free and amazing Matrix1 Utils. I use them all the time myself and they work wonders in so many areas, particularly object creation/modification. Link: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=85209&b=18 IanM is an expert DBPro and C++ user and he combined his skills to create that cool pack of plugins. He also used to provide extremely helpful advice for those of us experimenting with creating our own plugins.

Quote: "p.s. Btw I think you should have called yours Placement Editor Extreme....the acronym is cool."


Lol you're the first person to actually show they appreciate the joke It's a true story

Quote: "I am glad you brought this up Clonkex."


If it makes Forester Pro usable for me, then so am I

You've made me like you again by showing that you're actually trying to make the program run faster You will likely cause me to buy FP immediately if you can make it run properly

EDIT: I also find the long-click system extremely annoying. I have to hold down the mouse button for more than a second to get the menu up and some of the options that appear there don't seem to be anywhere else (like in the top menu). It slows work flow extremely. You should use middle-mouse click to rotate the screen and just allow a single right-click to open the context menu.

Clonkex



Placement Editor Professional
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Kezzla
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2008
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 18th Apr 2013 17:13
Link
I love this product and you have my word, that if you implement a one click randomize realistic tree(options can be either user specified or designer determined) I will buy a full licence and quite a few of your tree packs.

I love the media your product can produce, the thing I am most interested, is using your foliage templates, to run a macro to randomize a whole bunch of trees(who are exported with the users selection of LOD Model levels) to a singular folder, with all variations contained within it. With a model name that follows eg. User_tree_randomizer_1.x through to User_tree_randomizer_maxnumber.x

Obviously your product is already excellent, these features would take your product from excellent to "the must have media application."

To be honest I am likely to buy your product very soon regardless of these requested features being implemented, These are end user requests.

I as an end user would like to generate a Lot of randomized visual media with minimal effort, your software seems to be capable of randomizing trees with minimal user input. This is ideal to me and the Dominant potential advantage to your software package. I am quite capable of modelling my own trees, I own plantlife and treemagik. I can model myself If I have the patience, my current solution is to model in plant life and treemagik. and export a lot of randomized models, through manual randomization.

As i have said before, I have the means and software to generate plant life already. Your software Is better. For me the lynch pin is quick randomized user media creation.

This is the difference between me using Treemagik and plant life, and me Switching exclusively to your software.

It may seem that I am holding you to ransom for my business, this is not true, when I have the spare money It will be spent on your software, these feature additions, will make this package so irresistible that people will buy it without question. I think a complete randomizer shouldn't be that hard to add in to it. you have to have your own algorithms you used to test it.(I imagine)

These are my end user requests, I have used the trial, The results are spectacular. These requested features take it from a useful tool to a must own solution.

Just my two cents.

Kezzla

I'm not a complete idiot -- Some parts are just missing.
Back to top
Profile PM
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 19th Apr 2013 01:08
Link
Hi Kezzla and Clonkex,

Kezzla glad you like Forester. Sure a batch export is entirely possible. We could do it so you choose a template in the tree library and a range of alternate textures, the number of versions and just press go. Next version....we are forever releasing new updates.

Clonkex, thanks for all the comments, useful to hear from end users.

We're just releasing the next version with the changes and hopefully Forester Pro should now run a lot better on your system. We still have to address the GUI, we'll experiment with preloading the menus to see if this helps performance without killing the memory usage.

The shaders are used mainly to "prettify". DBPro users have a high tolerance for lack of shine, however, Forester Pro also supports Torque3D, Unity, Unreal Engine 3 and XNA. Users of these engines are used to lots of shader effects and want to be able to preview tree models with at least some effects (in fact we have had requests for bump and specular mapping from them....which we are avoiding implementing). Shaders are, however, most useful for leaves. DBPro has always had a bit of an issue with transparency and requires double-sided meshes (Unity does too), the leaf shader in Forester Pro means we can create single sided leaf meshes for preview. Disabling the leaf shader makes little difference to FPS for me, and involves remaking the tree with double-sided leaf meshes, however, we will leave it in as a feature since on systems with less capable graphics cards it may give a performance enhancement.

Anyway, I hope it is more useable!

Best,
GrumpyOne

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 19th Apr 2013 01:14
Link
Forester Pro Version 1.15 Released

Forester Pro version 1.15 features improved performance for low and mid-range systems and general performance enhancements for exporting and tree creation. We've also added an additional feature to the user interface to improve work flow. All these features are in response to user feedback (Clonkex).

Improvements

(1) Tree creation and loading is now 2-5x faster.

(2) Exporting models is now 2-10x faster.

(3) Shaders can optionally be disabled improving performance on low and mid-range systems by 2-4x. Leaf and branch shaders can be disabled independently.

(4) The content menu can now be accessed by pressing the middle mouse button as well as a right-click. There is no delay for middle mouse button access.

If you've already installed Forester Pro you can update using this installer:

http://www.hptware.co.uk/downloads/foresterupdate115.zip

Forester Pro can be downloaded from our website:
http://www.hptware.co.uk/forester.htm

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
GrumpyOne
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2007
Location: London, UK
Posted: 19th Apr 2013 02:29
Link
Kezzla,

Just one more word. I do like the idea of a complete one click randomizer. We'll work on this too, it should be possible. The trick will be to ensure it doesn't produce complete rubbish There will be quite a few random combinations of properties that will produce very odd trees and bushes. We'll experiment...it might take a bit longer than the batch exporter.

Best,
Grumpyone

GrumpyOne - the natural state of the programmer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 19th Apr 2013 05:58 Edited at: 19th Apr 2013 06:18
Link
Quote: "
(1) Tree creation and loading is now 2-5x faster.

(2) Exporting models is now 2-10x faster.
"


Better, thanks!

Quote: "(3) Shaders can optionally be disabled improving performance on low and mid-range systems by 2-4x. Leaf and branch shaders can be disabled independently."


AMAZING! Massive speed increase! Brilliant work, thanks!! I'm so glad you allowed the two shaders to be disabled separately because it runs very well with the leaf shader enabled but oddly the branch shader bogs it down horribly (I would have expected it to be the other way around). I turned the leaf shader back on to give me nice leaves without bogging it down unusably

Quote: "(4) The content menu can now be accessed by pressing the middle mouse button as well as a right-click. There is no delay for middle mouse button access."


Ah perfect! Much better work flow, thankyou!

Quote: "All these features are in response to user feedback (Clonkex)."


You're doing excellent work with Forester Pro. You listened to user feedback and very quickly released an update with the requested features implemented! Brilliant! I'll buy FP sometime in the next two weeks, most likely, as soon as I know for sure that I need trees in my game (very likely)

Quote: "DBPro users have a high tolerance for lack of shine"


Lol We have to, DBPro doesn't lend itself to shiny graphics all that well. Still, my new game is going to look amazing, particularly with your awesome trees in it

Switching modes between wireframe, solid and material and hiding/showing leaves is now much faster, too

The only bug I noticed is if you disable the branch shader, then go to wireframe or solid mode and back to material mode, the branch shader will be re-enabled (which probably increases the time it takes to go from wireframe or solid to material because switching shaders is slow).

Overall I'm very impressed with both FP and the support given for it. A++ work

EDIT: There's no preview image for the "simple planes" leaf type. Bug?

EDIT2: There's quite a few bugs relating to LOD generation. First, if you are in wireframe mode and select "Make LOD 50%" it will switch back to material mode (I want to see it change in wireframe so I can compare the look of the high and low poly models). Second, "Show Full Res" doesn't seem to work in wireframe mode. Third, the text up the top-right underneath the name of the tree doesn't change from "LOD 50" or "LOD 10" (or "Fallen" for that matter) when I click "Show Full Res".

EDIT3: The Edit menu and the middle-mouse context menu should be identical, so "Make Min LOD" in the context menu should be renamed "Make 10% LOD" because that's what it's called in the Edit menu. Also, while using "Show Full Res" doesn't change the text up the top-right, using "High Res Tree" in the context menu DOES change it. What on earth have you done in your code?? You must have duplicate code running rampant!

EDIT4: When you open the help file, it always defaults to the "Create billboards" page, rather than the "Contents" page (which is where I would expect it to start).

Clonkex



Placement Editor Professional
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-23 16:11:34
Your offset time is: 2024-11-23 16:11:34