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Geek Culture / Global Treaty to Censor The Internet Happening This Month!

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nonZero
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Posted: 10th Dec 2012 20:36
I don't usually start simultaneous threads but this is serious. Basically the governments of the world want to censor the net (again) and introduce new laws that will permit them to spy on you and block any traffic they want with the side effects of potentially slower internet speeds and higher costs including new fees to access content online.

Links:

The petition:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/hands_off_our_internet_i/?baQGidb&v=20011

and if you have any doubts, here's a source from Google:
http://www.google.com/takeaction/whats-at-stake/index.html

I'm urging everyone here to once again fight the good fight and keep government and corporate from gaining control of the last free-flowing source of information left. Spread the word (and the links) everywhere you can my fellow cyber-dwellers.

I know it's tiring going through this petition-signing, spreading the word thing every few months but the enemy is hoping to tire us. The enemy wants us to think "it'll never happen, can't be bothered", "boring", "this again", etc. We have to keep at this until the enemy gives in and says "fine, we can't be bothered trying to control this thing anymore".

RP Functions Library v1.0

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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Dec 2012 22:08
I thought that all happened last week, and was voted down.

The UN wants control of the internet. This was the article I saw last week:
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/271153-house-approves-resolution-to-keep-internet-control-out-of-un-hands

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Kezzla
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Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 11th Dec 2012 02:00
I already signed the Google petition.

At my high school we had a christian approved intranet. It was absolutely useless and of no value for either learning or entertainment. I can see how control will destroy access to information.

This is the basis for my concern.

Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
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Posted: 11th Dec 2012 03:34
Quote: "christian approved intranet"
Ouch. I'm a Christian myself, but hell, limiting Internet like that is unacceptable.

"That's what"
-She
Benjamin
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Posted: 11th Dec 2012 05:12
Quote: "At my high school we had a christian approved intranet."


Roll on the analogies...

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 09:23 Edited at: 13th Dec 2012 09:33
you know, i wrote a short story once that takes place in the near future where internet is borderline illegal and the only legal internet is reserved for government services and mainstream media. Pretty much all computer/mobile technologies except for devices approved by Federal Communications Commission are illegal because they have no hardwired safeguards against accessing illegal networks which is pretty much anything that goes trough an RJ47 or 802 a/b/n protocol. the only legal internet was set up through some newly government approved wireless protocol. But since a large part of the old networks have not been dismantled or are still in use by some closed facilities, a huge underground movement of computer enthusiasts armed with ancient and outdated computer technology that can interface with remaining old networks and established an underground illegal network of LAN clusters.

I wrote it so it looks as if the modern computer/mobile tech as we know it stopped evolving beyond late 90s before the internet and the hardware became illegal and new standards were put into place so all the "Anonymous" are doomed to use pentium 2s if they want to acess the "Free-Net" or Fidonet or DeepkNet or whatever networks that were around before the mass purge of networks and the brutal genocide of computer equipment.

Anyway, i wrote this story like 3 years ago and by now i lost it somewhere.

my point is, i didn't expect my short story to start coming true this soon.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
TheComet
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 14:25
It's not going to come true. The internet can't be stopped and regulated by some stupid governments and corporations, because we (the people) are supposed to be in control of the government through democracy, not the other way around. In some countries *cough* America *cough* the tables have been turned, in which case you people need to get a hold of yourself and do a reality check. Losing the internet will be the least of your concerns if you don't start acting now.

As longs as we stay aware we'll always be on top, because we greatly outnumber the corporations. This is like what, the 10th attempt at shutting down free speech since 1960?

TheComet

mr Handy
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 15:05
I am not a drug dealer or political active man, so I don't care what happens to internet. Anyway I can do shopping, downloading software and game patches, using mail, steam, origin and neutral forums. What else a regular man needs? Some censored news and propaganda? Sheesh, who need news when we already know that everything is going worse and worse.
TheComet
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 15:43
Quote: "Anyway I can do shopping, downloading software and game patches, using mail, steam, origin and neutral forums. What else a regular man needs?"


MrHandy, that is the internet.

TheComet

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 17:12
tomorrow i am having an interview for a job at my internet providers company, if i get the job, i heard people on the inside can use some loopholes here and there to get around any kind of government control they might force on the providers.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Zotoaster
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 19:47
Quote: "tomorrow i am having an interview for a job at my internet providers company, if i get the job, i heard people on the inside can use some loopholes here and there to get around any kind of government control they might force on the providers."


There's always a loophole! Governments don't understand the internet, and they can't compete with basement loner hackers

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
Ldewitt
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 20:02
Quote: "There's always a loophole! Governments don't understand the internet, and they can't compete with basement loner hackers "


Obviously, if they did, trolls would be wiped out, anon would be compltetely dead and people trying to share a file would be shot in place!
Anyhow it seems like alot of governments are trying to become north korea lately!

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 22:08
Quote: "Governments don't understand the internet"

The way i see it the government dont understand the internet because there isnt a clear definition of how the internet works on the international level. and as long as that remains the case governments cant really take control of the internet.

Now i read this article yesterday that has to do with the international internet control thing thats going on. Russia proposed to establish clear definitions of basic concepts of the internet on the international level, Once the mechanism of the internet and its definition has been defined, they would integrate the function of ICNN into the international law under the jurisdiction of the UN. This would establish international framework of laws that would be able to control the internet or at least it would make it a little easier to establish some sort of control on the international level. China, Iraq, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Algir, Bahrain all supported Russia's plan.

Another issue is Will this work and if it will then how long will it last. Because with the quickly evolving networking and IT technology, this international framework of laws will need to keep up with the evolving technologies constantly updating laws. I doubt such system will last long enough to remain relevant.

Another point i want to bring up is that to me it seemes too sudden that governments all over the world so suddenley started talking about internet control when they simply didnt care before. If i am not wrong, the US government started pushing a lot more activley with their Sopas and Pipas sometime after the wiki leaks scandals and hacker groups exposed the skeletons in the closets of the government. These events were followed by the governments ideas of killswitches and blocking traffic into the US from other countries etc. I dont know how the internet was the Arab countries before but the Arab spring gave those governments reasons to tighten the control over the internet. Russia is a good example because i live here and i know that Russian internet is like the wild west of the world wide web. The laws were tightened up in the early 2000s so the internet providers would have some legal protection from swarms of hackers who would constantly steal massive amounts of free traffic, Combined with some half-assed attempts to combat piracy the Ru-Net was still Anarchy.

Then last december during the elections the anti government activists did their thing with the web and dug up some dirt on how government youth orgonisations launder and pocket budget money (not that such things are uncommon but in this case it was too close for comfort for the govenment) Then there was a massive opposition propoganda campaign that cost the ruling party some 60 (out of 300) seats in the parlament. Again, this was too close for comfort for the russian government not to mention that around that time they were speaking out against the measures the States wanted to take for the control of traffic and defended the idea of free uncensored internet. Now Russia would look like an ass if they suddenley changed their stance on the issue. So first they launched their own huge counter-propoganda campaign on the internet which was a sucess (they made such cool looking political propoganda clips, i was hooked ) Threw around a bunch of big words like extremism and drugs which paved ground for reasons to censor the internet and went along making an epic blacklist of websites most of which are political.

but anyway, my point is that before the recent few years i think the only country that really took internet control seriously was China. I think this really started when the internet was used as informational weapon against governments, before most of the countries couldn't care less.

And from what i am hearing, China these days is starting to struggle containing their internet so much that they are more oftern forced to turn a blind eye toward most violations.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 13th Dec 2012 22:21
Devil's advocate here. Don't all rally against these changes. The axis of evil (Google) seems to be against them, so I'm all for them.
mr Handy
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 22:21 Edited at: 13th Dec 2012 22:23
Quote: "MrHandy, that is the internet."

Those parts would be unaffected. Srsly, you think that someone will shut down ebay or amazon for some reason? There is no reason to do that.
Norion
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 22:57
How about we start our own nation and goverment ?

We can even have different states like:

DBP

DBC

FPSC

FPSCR

AGK

And then we all live in harmony !


Who's with me !?!?!

Nec Temere Nec Timide
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 13th Dec 2012 23:34
@Norion-

That's a very good idea. I would just hope that it would be a monarchy. There's too much corruption in the American system.

Before anyone else claims the title, I declare myself the Duke of DarkBASIC [Classic]!
Norion
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Posted: 13th Dec 2012 23:41
@ Fluffy Rabbit

Well if you can get away with it, then I declare myself, President of FPSC. In my state, Cake is no longer a lie !

Nec Temere Nec Timide
nonZero
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 12:13
We, of The Empire, assert the we should be acting supervisor to all heads of state of each state. We should be an intermediary but also and enforcer of what we have come to believe in as "moral decency". Moral decency is defined in The Empire Conduct Code, Section 12, Parts 8 to 12.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 12:49
Quote: "Quote: "MrHandy, that is the internet."
Those parts would be unaffected. Srsly, you think that someone will shut down ebay or amazon for some reason? There is no reason to do that. "


I think that's less of a concern, though it's possible they may find an excuse to add taxes for those services. But I am not really that concerned about eBay/Amazon.

My main concerns would be to do with freedom of expression on the web, which has already been under threat before now. The internet has a freedom of press not even the press has and I suspect governments do not like that - Wikileaks as an example. Imagine being prosecuted for sharing an opinion on the internet, because your particular government decided that you were publishing libellous material.

mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 14:40 Edited at: 14th Dec 2012 14:42
Quote: "Imagine being prosecuted for sharing an opinion on the internet"

No more stupid or racist comments on youtube or elsewhere, sounds excellent.
Quote: "freedom of expression on the web"

Like what? You mean those 'people' with cameras who uploads thousands of 'amazing' vlogs on youtube?

Very important internet opinion of mrHandy:

We have a lot of Russian opposition. They write blogs, organize rallies, said the overthrow Putin by force, appear in the Kremlin ... and then the money (usa's money btw) runs out and all go home. No, people do not want freedom, they want money. And power. Is there a political censorship or not - this is a war for money. If it bothers you - so they just did not share with you the money.

What in your life would change if WikiLeaks shut down? No-thing.
Dar13
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 14:45
Quote: "The axis of evil (Google)"

Explain.

mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 14:56
Quote: "The axis of evil (Google)"

means that Google controls all the information in the web, especially the information on people.

I think this is a politcal thread.
Quote: "The Internet has been an amazing example of people power -- allowing us to connect, speak out and pressure leaders like never before."

So everyone involved are seeking for power. Power = money. The discussion is useless.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 15:46
Quote: "No more stupid or racist comments on youtube or elsewhere, sounds excellent."


Censoring racism doesn't solve it, it just means you're ignoring it. If people are genuinely racist on the internet, I think it's better to take them head on, granted most folk in the YouTube comments section are just trolls.

Quote: "Like what? You mean those 'people' with cameras who uploads thousands of 'amazing' vlogs on youtube?"


They're included, but by no means am I talking exclusively about them. It could be from anything like an offensive joke to somebody making political criticism.

The internet is a place where people can share thoughts and opinions, where people can express themselves but it's a problem when you take those freedoms away and allow governments to regulate it, to consider people criminals when previously they wouldn't. I'm not talking about pirates, terrorist cells or any of the 'baddies' the politicians will claim they're trying to prevent, but people who use the internet in an honest way, but are prosecuted because they told an offensive joke, have political or religious views and wanted to freely express them, because they said something unflattering about a political or religious leader (I posted a pretty amusing pic of David Cameron). But the internet isn't all YouTube vlogs and Facebook comments, there's a whole wealth of content on the internet and a whole number of different purposes people have for it.

Because the internet is a global community, it can actually offer to support and knowledge to people who would have nowhere else to get it, not every country is met with the same freedoms and if we believe in freedom of expression, then we'd want governments to be able to regulate the internet less. I'm all up for stopping piracy, but censoring the internet is a ridiculous step.

I would like an internet where I'm not afraid to say what I think, where I'm bound and am restricted just because somebody else doesn't like it. I do it on a regular basis. I wouldn't want an internet where other people are afraid to do the same thing.

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 16:02
Quote: "Imagine being prosecuted for sharing an opinion on the internet, because your particular government decided that you were publishing libellous material."

governments dont really care about you expressing your opinion, people do it all the time and have been doing it for as long as internet was around. I think what the governments have a problem with the internet when the internet is used successfully to target and damage the government itself. Its just that such things have started to happen recentley so the governments decided to do something about it.

Quote: "We have a lot of Russian opposition. They write blogs, organize rallies, said the overthrow Putin by force, appear in the Kremlin ... and then the money (usa's money btw) runs out and all go home. No, people do not want freedom, they want money. And power. Is there a political censorship or not - this is a war for money. If it bothers you - so they just did not share with you the money."


Exactly and whats even more interesting is (again we know this because of the internet) the russian antigovernment opposiotion in russia is getting paid by..... the russian government! I am sure there is a lot more to it that we dont know.

Quote: "What in your life would change if WikiLeaks shut down? No-thing"

True but its not about lives of us mortals thats important. Scandals of wikileaks and others like it are more of an informational political weapon. Maybe most people wouldnt care about all the dirt their government covers up even if it was exposed and any average joe could read about it. But out of all the millions of average joes out there there are a few wealthy powerful and influential people who can use such info to their advantage. Such info in the open can seriosly affect stock prices on wallstreet or could be used to create an international scandal that can escalate into an open conflict if pushed far enough.

The internet has evolved into a potentially powerful tool of information warfare. That is why government want to control the internet, because they did a bad job at hiding their skeletons in their closets and if it spills out everyone would know.

I think in a while government will realize that internet is impossible to control and will end up figuring out how to keep bad info from spilling out which would probably involve isolating their internet space from the rest of the world, or they would actually start trying to be better governments with spotless reputation that cant be toppled by petty info scandals.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 16:43 Edited at: 14th Dec 2012 16:58
Quote: "governments dont really care about you expressing your opinion, people do it all the time and have been doing it for as long as internet was around. I think what the governments have a problem with the internet when the internet is used successfully to target and damage the government itself. Its just that such things have started to happen recentley so the governments decided to do something about it."


You say that, yet people still get arrested and prosecuted for seemingly 'harmless' expressions. I think it tends to depend on the government, some care more than others. What worries me is that my own government (the link isn't the only case) thinks it's a criminal offense if somebody makes an offensive joke, even if made on Facebook. Sometimes our own comedians are a victim of it. But there are people in other countries who have suffered worse for their 'expression'. Like a guy in Iran was given the death penalty because the uploaded software he wrote was used on a porn site, he didn't even write it for that purpose. Then the girl in the link I posted previously, all she did was criticise how the funeral of political leader was taking place...on Facebook and her friend who was arrested for clicking 'Like'.

Unfortunately there are countries out there with stupid laws for stupid crimes and they already have the power to check people's activity on the internet and as a result can prosecute people in any way they see fit. Increasing the power governments have with the internet deeply worries me and it's open to plenty of abuse from the side of governments.

I think if we want to see a world where people are free to express themselves, we're taking the completely wrong direction by censoring the internet.


Though I think you're right that the government are probably more scared of the internet being information warfare, because the more people know, the more likely they're going to hold their government accountable. It's harder to hide behind lies when people know too much. But I think a government should tremble at the sight of their skeletons because they should be accountable for their actions.

I know that preventing this won't stop the things governments choose to prosecute people for, but I'm not about to give them more power they can abuse.

mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 20:17 Edited at: 14th Dec 2012 20:18
Quote: "It could be from anything like an offensive joke to somebody making political criticism."

Just don't do stupid jokes on public. Nobody likes it. Pranks are for kindergarden.

And if I were a ruler of something, I would use force to control opposition. It is natural.

So get real, this censorship is soap bubble if you are a intelligent lawful citizen. Don't worry, be happy.
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 20:26 Edited at: 14th Dec 2012 20:31
Quote: "You say that, yet people still get arrested and prosecuted for seemingly 'harmless' expressions"

I did notice that the states treat political opinions a lot more seriously although, the worst that happened to me for such comments was that one of my teachers chewed me out for it and the airport security in Chicago yelled at me for making a bomb joke when they checked my bags. Also they confiscated my bottle of vodka that i bought in a duty free shop. but i suppose it could have ended a lot worse.
Russian government has no time to regulate freedom of speech so anyone can freely say anything they want to whoever they want. Arguing about politics on the internet is one of the favorite pastimes in Russia.

Russian governments tactical approach toward internet bloggers

If you become a well known blogger and address certain issues, the government here might start keeping tabs on you but wont take action unless you upload a video on how to cook meth out of common household products or something. As for online political movements, they have to be more careful because arresting bloggers is bad for the image of the government. Most of the time they let these bloggers have their fun and even let the off the hook for potentially illegal "how to make a bomb out of laundry detergent and Ramen instant noodles" videos because it still look bad from the public eye to arrest a blogger. Just several more million of "Down with Putin" comments on youtube no real harm done. If you are infact a very influential blogger who made a name for himself across the country like the current leaders of russian opposition (a bunch of hipsters) You got the full attention of the government and since arresting is still bad for public image they will try to blackmail you, charge you with administrative offense for something you did which is usually just a fine or in worst case 5-15 days in jail, they will demonize you in the media and even pay you money to shut up or if you cant shut up theyll still pay you money and you can yell "down with Putin" all you want as long as you don't start backing up your statements and dont go poking around in governments business. The final resort if you still don't take the hint is fabricate something that will get you a real prison sentence. The current blogger/leader of the
Russian opposition Aleksey Navalnyi had just that happen to him today. After this guy lost the support of the US Department of state, he apparently set up some really elaborate money laundering scheme which moved millions and left him with a humble $1.5 million profit. The government knew about his money laundering operation for a long time and could have arrested him any time but it was bad for the image and 1.5 million wouldn't make an interesting story in the news anyway. Luckily enough his laundering scheme was so elaborate that it was easy to turn 1.5 million into 30 million. They purposely announced these charges against him today because tomorrow was supposed to be an opposition protest meeting in the center of the city that the government this time refused to approve (normally they approve since letting crowds gather and blow off steam by yelling "down with Putin" calms them down). Even if people do gather tomorrow anyway, it might not be the best idea for this guy himself to show up with this money laundering case hanging over his head and potentially facing 10 years in prison. Yet they still might be letting him off the hook in the end since arresting Navalny will make him a martyr and the second russian political prisoner exept for the first one- Khadorkovsky was the biggest oil billionare in russia and had balls to directly challenge Putin and the financial means, public support and resourses to successfully stage a coup and he had the balls to go trough with this and almost succeeded as the majority of the parliament was already in his pocket. The second political prisoner would be an annoying public figure with a crowd of hipsters following him.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 20:59
Quote: "Just don't do stupid jokes on public. Nobody likes it. Pranks are for kindergarden.

And if I were a ruler of something, I would use force to control opposition. It is natural.

So get real, this censorship is soap bubble if you are a intelligent lawful citizen."


Well it's hardly freedom of expression if you censor yourself. So what you're saying is, if you have an opinion, don't voice it, if you want to tell a joke, don't tell it and if you want to speak out against something, don't speak out against it. Instead, fold your arms, accept it the way it is and work within the boundaries you are set and let whatever government of whatever country you live get on with it.

Quote: "Don't worry, be happy. "


I am happy, but I do consider certain things in the world to be important and don't think everything bad in the world should be ignored. I think the result of this treaty is important. It may not affect you directly, but what you do? That's your prerogative.

xplosys
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 21:18
Quote: "And if I were a ruler of something, I would use force to control opposition. It is natural."


Just as natural as it is for the ruled to oppose it. One is not possible without the other. Maybe I like stupid jokes on the internet. Should I loose my right to do them because you don't like them?

I don't want anyone making decisions about what is wrong or right for me, or what I should consider acceptable behavior. I am a free man. If you value the security of someone else making your decisions more than your right to choose for yourself, then this is not a problem, but for me it is.

Brian.

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 23:00 Edited at: 14th Dec 2012 23:06
Quote: "I am a free man"

You are not. You can't kill, you can't steal, you can't offence other people. You even can't kill yourself in certain circumstances.

Quote: "So what you're saying is, if you have an opinion, don't voice it, if you want to tell a joke, don't tell it and if you want to speak out against something, don't speak out against it."

If you want to tell a joke about missing girl (your example), you are stupid. If you want to tell a joke you are welcome. Feel the difference.

Do you want to tell any family that loosed a member a joke about it? Or do you want to make pranks with blind people? Or you want to tell a jokes about how stupid christmas is? I hope not.

If you want to speak against something, you can. Every human on Earth is an expert in anything. Every Important Opinion posted in the web helps starving people in Africa.

Only two opinions (or advices!) are imortant:
1. If you asked for it. (quality depends on whom you asked)
2. If an certain expert says it.
Yes, an respected old man can teach you well about life. Not the 15 year old girl.

The web full of kindergarden opinions. Who needs this crap?

Quote: "Well it's hardly freedom of expression if you censor yourself."

In russia we say: drink vodka, LOL, no; a word is a silver a silence is a gold. It's not censorship, it's a wisdom.
Quik
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Posted: 14th Dec 2012 23:26 Edited at: 15th Dec 2012 00:04
Quote: "Quote: "Imagine being prosecuted for sharing an opinion on the internet"
No more stupid or racist comments on youtube or elsewhere, sounds excellent.
Quote: "freedom of expression on the web"
Like what? You mean those 'people' with cameras who uploads thousands of 'amazing' vlogs on youtube?"



I frequently use "racist expressions, and descriptions" in public - HOWEVER, IF someone were to hear - and tkae notice, and feel offended I would EXPECT him or her to walk up to me and say so - and tell me to stop. And I would stop - by that. Thats how it should work no? Having a 2 sided CONVERSATION.


edit: now of course I do not MEAN to offend anyone, nor do I intend to, by using "racist terms"



Whose eyes are those eyes?
xplosys
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 00:14
Quote: "You are not. You can't kill, you can't steal, you can't offence other people. You even can't kill yourself in certain circumstances."


Sorry, but I can do all those things. Who is going to stop me from doing those things? You? The government? I am a free man.

What you fail to realize is that with freedom comes great responsibility. I can do anything I want, but I must be willing to pay the price for it. That is what freedom is.

You seem to be content with someone else making your decisions and relieving you of any responsibility for your life. If you're comfortable with that, then go with it. It's your choice. I'll keep my freedom and gladly pay the price for it.

Brian.

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

rolfy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 00:58 Edited at: 15th Dec 2012 01:28
Quote: " I don't care what happens to internet. Anyway I can do shopping, downloading software and game patches, using mail, steam, origin and neutral forums. What else a regular man needs? Some censored news and propaganda? Sheesh, who need news when we already know that everything is going worse and worse.

And if I were a ruler of something, I would use force to control opposition. It is natural.

So get real, this censorship is soap bubble if you are a intelligent lawful citizen. Don't worry, be happy.

You are not. You can't kill, you can't steal, you can't offence other people. You even can't kill yourself in certain circumstances

So everyone involved are seeking for power. Power = money. The discussion is useless.

Yes, an respected old man can teach you well about life. Not the 15 year old girl.

The web full of kindergarden opinions. Who needs this crap?"





Seriously, do you really have such a narrow view of the world, never mind the internet?

Are we to believe that the internet is swamped with political opinions from fifteen year old girls which drown out the sensible opinions of the mature man?

Its called freedom of choice, speech whatever you will and to be honest just because your young and female does not mean you are an uninformed Barbie. Ken does come to mind with some of the above thoughts though, with the misinformed, gullible, naive approach to fundamental rights every person on the globe should have the right to and for which many sacrificed to retain for the likes of us.. and still continue to do so.
Its not for government to decide what knowledge I should have access to and to be honest I wont be censoring young people I know for fact are better informed than most so called adults, truth and knowledge are just what they are, wherever the source comes from.

If you want to live in a box sheltered from reality then go for it, I for one dont give a toss about E-bay or Amazon and could happily lose these first, same with your access to online games (which you will find sanitized if this goes through and then I suspect the whining would start about censorship), they are not my priority and to be honest the immaturity shown in such narrow vision as this is something we need to get rid of first before censoring the internet.

Yeah! lets get rid of anything even remotely informing and educational (its all just verbal nonsense from fifteen year old girls anyhow) but we really cant do without Amazon

Where's my controller? time to go learn some more life facts while killing me some zombies.
Flatlander
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 01:29 Edited at: 15th Dec 2012 01:30
Quote: "Its not for government to decide what knowledge I should have access to and to be honest I wont be censoring young people I know for fact are better informed than most so called adults, truth and knowledge are just what they are, wherever the source comes from."


I agree


Quote: "I for one dont give a toss about E-bay or Amazon and could happily lose these first, "


If these go then porn definatley has to go! And hate websites!

No, I do care about amazon and e-bay. I am old and cannot go shopping easily. I bought all my Christmas presents at Amazon. Things that I wouldn't even be able to buy in a local store. I may not do e-bay but good friends of ours who had been unemployed are now making a good, honest living through e-bay.

OH, then saw this at the end of your post. I just kind of stopped when I read the above.

Quote: "but we really cant do without Amazon"


Unless you were being sarcastic.

So, you have my opinion. I'm a Christian and I don't think, until Christ comes, we as human-beings should dictate values upon others. It's between them and their God or god. Dictate is the operative word. I don't like to see porn or hate sights on the internet but if we can have good Christian sites or good healthy sites to the human spirit, then we have to have what we don't like as well.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
rolfy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 01:43 Edited at: 15th Dec 2012 02:08
I was being sarcastic, I dont mean get rid of these per se, just the thought that if these are all thats important and nothing else matters to you when your rights are systematically removed then you deserve to be oppressed.

The attitude about censorship here is exactly what those who have most to lose from allowing freedom of speech would like us all to think.

The excuse that they want to stop porn,drug dealers and terrorists is no more than a whitewash and they simply dont like something they cant control. The war on terror is doomed to failure in the same way the war on drugs has failed (started back in Nixon's day and we all know how pristine he was).

The comparison is strong, when you lie and exaggerate to people to get your way.

For drugs it was 'use 'em and die', for Aids it was 'unprotected sex will kill you', for terrorism it has been non-existant WMD's. This backfires on them and actually exposes the very lies they want you to believe and they sell it as in your best interests. I know that Aids killed many in certain countries but if you believed the BS being sold back then, you were simply distracted from the real issues of the time. Of course they want to shut up anyone that questions what they do and censorship bolstered by propaganda is the oldest one in the book.
Flatlander
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 02:36
After thinking about it -- it takes me a while sometimes -- I did come to realize how you were using this as an example of how ridiculous it is to bring down certain areas of the internet and leave others. So, I get it now. Hey, it took William Shatner 45+ years to get Star Trek and its fans.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
Airslide
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 02:52
I don't think the U.N. is going to get control of the Internet too soon. At least not as long as the U.S. Congress keeps giving them the middle finger when they talk about it.
mr Handy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 02:59 Edited at: 15th Dec 2012 03:05
Quote: "If you want to live in a box sheltered from reality then go for it"

You know, we all 'lived in boxes' 20 years ago, when there was no internet. Hmm... I see.

Quote: "What you fail to realize is that with freedom comes great responsibility. I can do anything I want, but I must be willing to pay the price for it. That is what freedom is.
"

So you think that your freedom is "more free" than freedom of whom do you killing or else? Of course, silly me.
Kezzla
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 03:00
however, it would be fascinating to see which of the conspiracy sites would suddenly disappear should the net undergo censoring.

what? where did Santa go?

mr Handy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 03:11
@Kezzla
I think they will take on youtube first. Not closing, just censoring.
rolfy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 03:22 Edited at: 15th Dec 2012 03:32
Quote: "You know, we all 'lived in boxes' 20 years ago, when there was no internet. Hmm... I see."

Never lived in a box however long ago, dont know what you mean

Quote: "So you think that your freedom is "more free" than freedom of whom do you killing or else? Of course, silly me. "

Although your addressing something someone else said....I still have no idea what your talking about.
This discussion is about freedom of speech and access to information on the internet, where does killing come into it? At best your making a lot of assumptions about what others are actually trying to say here. Do you actually think some of us believe we have the freedom to do ANYTHING we want? Thats really odd.

I have been on the weird side of you tube many times, I have yet to see anything that would warrant censoring it, unless its to stop me being Rick Rolled. Maybe an example of whats so offensive on there might help, I believe they do a good enough job policing there own site and have yet to see any porn, drug dealing or terrorist communications as they blatantly stick a finger up at censorship. You have absolutely no idea whats going on here, do you?
Quik
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 03:23 Edited at: 15th Dec 2012 03:27
In "my world" - we are all free, because there's nothing stopping me from doing what I want - other than consequence, which would be there wether government was there or not.
If I feel like killing myself, why not? It would be very selfish of me, considering I have a daughter, a mother, father and brother and not to mention my amazing friends who cares about me. But I can still certanly do it.
I could kill someone, if I felt like it. Now - of course - this will trigger a counter reaction - whereby the "government will imprison me" - which would essentially mean strip me of my "freedom" - but before we go into that: yes, the "government" goes in and "revenges" said kill, but lets say the "government" wouldnt be there - i'm sure if i went on a killing spree - something would eventually happen, somone would shoot me - try make me stop and whatnot. The "government" is merely a replacement for that person.


now, if I were to be imprisoned - I would be partialyl stripped of my freedom, as I can no longer do as I please behind bars - but my will is still my will, thus I still have the freedom of my mind, of which can never be taken, unless I allow it to.


We're all free. we ALWAYS have a CHOICE - the CHOICES are our freedom, have ALWAYS been and have not changed. Rules are rules, and as they say: rules are meant to be broken.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
nonZero
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 08:39
In the name of justice - a justice defined morally by humans, fallable creatures - it is okay to subjugate the people. Let no man post an offensive remark, that's illegal (Facebook!?! get real). But, in the name of free enterprise, it is okay to rip people off provided one does it legally.
I could not post a nasty remark about your dead kid on facebook but, when she was older, I could con her into selling me her house for 1/2 its value or I could sell her a "get rich quick" investment for her all life savings. I could do these things legally and she/you would have no recourse. But god help me if I said something explecit about her on facebook after she was dead. Because words are so damaging. Because she'll really care if she's dead.

"But hey, let's not care about our freedoms. So long as I have my microwave and my toaster, I'm fine. It's someone else's problem."

It's so easy to hide behind indifference. But the truth is we are all affected. Think about how using an actor's face as an avatar is copyright infringement - especially a screen capture from a movie. A meme could be construed that way too if it contained copyrighted material. This is a floodgate we're opening by allowing any control over the internet. Oh and the piracy thing's a joke because before the internet it was rife and it'll remain so because therre'll always hand-to-hand methods of distributing data. If the authorities can't even control substances, how will they control data?

Right now we're struggling more than ever between freedom and order. Right now we've got leaders telling us we need to be controlled because we're morally rotten and don't have the necessary moral code to choose not to commit evil deeds. But those very people telling us we need to be controlled are human too. They are no more worthy of power than a drunken begger. What even makes their laws right. The law of any region is a subjective thing based of subjective moral perception. Death to a personal who insults a religion while praising the taking of innocent lives in a holy war. Another region might believe it okay to purge an entire race because they are different. Another region might decide they have a right to read your personal journals and throw you in jail for refusing to decrypt them.

All it takes for evil to prevail is that good men (or women) do nothing.

RP Functions Library v1.0

My signature has not been erased by a mod.
TheComet
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 10:40
mrHandy, tell me why I should be arrested if I post a "Yo Mama so fat" joke in the internet? You joined in on that as well.

PonyCraft would be censored along with most of the fanbase, your avatar would be censored, the funny videos and images you've posted would be censored...

The American government and corporations are so corrupt right now, of course they want to censor everything so they can gain more control over the people. And you want to just hand them one of our largest portals of free speech just because some trolls are being racist?

Actually, this message from me right now would be censored if this petition were signed, along with many others. You would no longer have access to different viewpoints, and you'd only be fed mainstream information full of propaganda.

TheComet

mr Handy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 12:07
I'll add in your style this quote:
Quote: "Negroes is not a politically correct term - African-Americans is. Let's rename Malevich's "Black Square" into African-American Square."
TheComet
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 12:18
Negroes was a perfectly accepted term back in 1940. If you reed literature written in that year, the word "negro" shows up a lot.

From Wikipedia:
Quote: ""Negro" superseded "colored" as the most polite terminology, at a time when "black" was more offensive.[3] This usage was accepted as normal, even by people classified as Negroes, until the later Civil Rights movement in the late 1960s. One well-known example is the identification by Martin Luther King, Jr. of his own race as 'Negro' in his famous 1963 speech I Have a Dream."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro

The same goes with the word "gay". That used to mean "happy", but now it suddenly means "homosexual" and is considered offensive.

In school I learned that the correct political term for negroes is now "maximum pigmented individual". I mean, come on!

Everyone is so crazy today about these things. Did you know that negroes themselves refer to each other as "niggas"? It just doesn't make any sense to me anymore.

TheComet

mr Handy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 12:48 Edited at: 15th Dec 2012 12:54
@TheComet
LOL, made my day. In Crysis, the Nano Suit:
- maximum strength!
- maximum armor!
- maximum speed!
- maximum pigmented individual!
- hey Prophet, are you black or it's just your nano suit mode?


On subject: they won't censor anything. They just can't. It is technically impossible to censor internet. So what's the point ot worry about? That' someone's racist jokes on some sites would be moderated? Is that so imporant for whole web?
Quik
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 14:59
Quote: "It is technically impossible to censor internet."



... You really need to open your eyes and look at certain coutnries around the world.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 15th Dec 2012 20:38 Edited at: 26th Dec 2012 03:41
Just stumbled upon this and i find it relevant to this thread

Mod Edit: Don't post inappropriate images. You know better.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them

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