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Geek Culture / thinking of getting dark basics

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smc
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Posted: 21st Jan 2013 14:42
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What kind of computer specs do I need to run it properly when I get my computer back I will post my info to see if my computer can mange but for I want to here from you guys thank you all
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Van B
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Posted: 21st Jan 2013 15:10
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Anything really, from old laptops with onboard graphics, to high spec gaming machines. It depends really on what you want to make and how complicated the graphics are.

Really there's no better way than to just try some experiements... like if your making a space game, make lots of planet objects and see if you can get some space flight in there.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Jan 2013 15:48
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There's more info on the main site: http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2000&page=system

Shh... you're pretty.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 21st Jan 2013 15:53
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smc - ? the same old smc? isn't this a duplicate username?

But if not, and my head ache from sleeping for 15+ hours is taking ill effect, Welcome to the forums smc!

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bitJericho
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Posted: 21st Jan 2013 18:17
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I'd recommend AppGameKit over dark basic. AppGameKit offers a trial demo so you can test it out. AppGameKit also does 3D now.

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Jan 2013 22:56
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Dark Basic Pro is free though right?

"I am a big dumb babby! " - TheComet
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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2013 01:45
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Quote: "Dark Basic Pro is free though right?"


Yes, it is, but you have to register the damn thing through your email address. I don't feel comfortable doing that for a software program that is given away for free. It just doesn't make sense. Anti-piracy in freeware? I emailed Lee about it a year ago but he never responded more than once, saying that the ads make up for it being freeware, but that still doesn't answer the question of why you have to register your copy. If the IDE never connected to the internet and the download size were brought down a little, I might use DarkBASIC Pro, but as it is, no way. I'd recommend DarkBASIC Classic over it any day.

Also, I'd recommend keeping an eye on FreeBASIC and QB64. They're both free BASIC languages with built-in graphics libraries, much like DarkBASIC. DarkBASIC is a little easier, but the other BASIC compilers work on more platforms and don't have all the bloat. Of course, if you want to support TGC you can buy AppGameKit, but I can't vouch for it because I've never used it. You'd probably be better off buying FPS Creator. I have used that one, and it offers a level editor similar to RPG Maker 2000. With a tool like that, you could make a game in a month and nobody would know it was made by one person. Of course, if you want to code, that's another story. I'd recommend also keeping an eye on Maratis (also free), which allows you to program games using compiled Lua, and it also comes with a level editor. Lastly, don't forget to start using Blender or some other 3D modeling program. You'll need something like that to create 3D level assets.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2013 08:37
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Quote: "Yes, it is, but you have to register the damn thing through your email address."


Quite common practice with Eventual Paid software packages...

It is a continuity method, simplifying the connection between the user and the seller... it also allows the ability to send them updates of new up to date offers...

I have no qualms with this practice... but maybe it can follow a Win-Rar format whereby it does not annoy you for a month or few days and then prompt for registration to continue using the product...

Fair game do you not agree?

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Libervurto
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2013 15:50
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Last time I used DBP there was a constant Ad bar at the bottom of the screen; Highly irritating, so I shoved it off the screen.
That kind of intrusive advertising is bad for everyone, it annoys the user and makes them not pay any attention to it so they don't buy anything. I'd much prefer to get a separate window, that I can close at will, with all the latest deals and links to the newsletter etc. The window should appear either when I load up the editor or on closing the editor (like the deals window that pops up when you close Steam).



"I am a big dumb babby! " - TheComet
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smc
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2013 19:03
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Do they mail you a disk so that if I ever go without internet or if my computer gets messed up I can download everything on to a new computer
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2013 22:12
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I think they do, when I got the dark game studio bonzana, I got a disc with most of the programs.
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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 05:08
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Quote: "That kind of intrusive advertising is bad for everyone, it annoys the user and makes them not pay any attention to it so they don't buy anything. I'd much prefer to get a separate window, that I can close at will, with all the latest deals and links to the newsletter etc."


What did you expect for free? Pay the $35 or whatever it costs and then you won't have the ads.


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
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nonZero
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 09:18
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Quote: "What kind of computer specs do I need to run it properly"

DBP is old. But it's also resource-hogging (Even though I'm a DBP user, I have to admit AppGameKit is lighter weight and supports many platforms and is in all likelihood a better choice).
Basically, for DBP and the games you'll make...
* You need the latest DirectX9.0c which means your video card must be compliant with it.
* It will run off a single core CPU since, iirc, DBP still only supports 1 core anyways (But I advise around 1.7GHz which was my lowest test). Also, I'd urge you to have a dual core though because even though DBP supports only 1 core, your second core can at leat take the workload of other apps and background things.
* DBP was once buggy on Windows 7 for some users but I've run it on my laptop (Win7 HP 64bit) with never any problems (There are mny reports of security problems, I don't use Windows security, I have my own security systems, so I can't say if you'll get issues there).
* At least 2 GB RAM for a basic game to run with your other apps. I suppose in a stripped-down environment you'd maybe get away with 1 GB but don't expect much.
* At least 256 MB VRAM if you're make a 3D game (unless you're making a really basic game).



Quote: "That kind of intrusive advertising is bad for everyone, it annoys the user and makes them not pay any attention to it so they don't buy anything. I'd much prefer to get a separate window, that I can close at will, with all the latest deals and links to the newsletter etc."

What Jeku said, but to elaborate...
The advertisements are paying your license fee basically. Though annoying, this model provides a way for commercial software to be available to those who cannot afford it. Unless you expect everyone to just spend hours of time and resources and then just give it away for free. What would be the point of adverts if you could simply close them?
I agree that email registration for freeware/free services is stupid and have no qualms about using a "dedicated to registration" address until I decide I'll buy it. In fact I give completely false details. If I buy it, I'll give my real name (Well duh, don't want it in the wrong name).

Hope my 2 cents helps some.


Silence is golden, duct tape is silver
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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 12:22 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2013 12:23
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Quote: "why you have to register your copy"


i think that's because compiler adds your license file to the final exe. and he just needs any license file, and you may replace it with a commercial one.

edit: i remember that somwhere has been said that TGC can track if a game was made with a proper or pirate license.

*** Merry Chuckmas! ***
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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 13:00
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Quote: "i think that's because compiler adds your license file to the final exe. and he just needs any license file, and you may replace it with a commercial one.

edit: i remember that somwhere has been said that TGC can track if a game was made with a proper or pirate license."


And that is why DarkBASIC Pro is still commercial software. Bloody license certificates. There should be no restrictions and no costs. Is TGC still making money? I thought that stopped around 2007.
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 14:55
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If a company doesn't make any money for 5 year. It probably goes bankrupt
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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 18:07
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Lee Bamber don't need money, he is Saint.

*** Merry Chuckmas! ***
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Libervurto
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 18:12
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Quote: "What did you expect for free? Pay the $35 or whatever it costs and then you won't have the ads."

That's my point though, I can just move the ads off the screen and they don't get their advertising or my $35. Being less intrusive would generate more sales, there is always a workaround for those who don't want to see ads, and the more intrusive they are the larger that group is likely to be.

Also your comment is a bit like saying TGC could send round an employee to punch me in the face and I'd have no right to complain because I'm getting free software. Releasing something for free isn't a licence to harass people, it's done to increase the user base, which is a great idea to reel people in considering the amount of "companion" software TGC sells. Releasing something for free doesn't immunise you from criticism or stop people forming an opinion of your company. If a company is more subtle with advertising I'm much more likely to respond to it.



"I am a big dumb babby! " - TheComet
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Dar13
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 18:22
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Quote: "And that is why DarkBASIC Pro is still commercial software. Bloody license certificates. There should be no restrictions and no costs. Is TGC still making money? I thought that stopped around 2007."

Well, yes it is still commercial software. It's just shareware instead of being full-price. License certificates are pretty much par for the course when you download a commercial product or toolkit. It's a token attempt to restrict piracy, that's all. And if you really don't want to give them your e-mail address, just create a throwaway on GMail or Hotmail and use that.

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nonZero
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 21:48
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Quote: "And that is why DarkBASIC Pro is still commercial software. Bloody license certificates. There should be no restrictions and no costs. Is TGC still making money? I thought that stopped around 2007."


It takes a very long time to put this sort of software together. Time = money. A business cannot survive without making money. If TGC doesn't make money, the company goes under. Then no more products or related services and no more support or updates.

I admire the people who make freeware and I'm a all for Open-Source and Donationware, etc too. But I don't begrudge a person saying, "Well, I want compensation for my 1500 hours of time and effort." Would you got into work one day and say to your boss "don't pay me this month"? I doubt it.
Remember it's not just "TGC", there are real people like you and I working all into the night on their products.

Now if you could just close/move the advert window:
a) Why would you bother buying the paid-for version?
b) How would TGC make any money from the adds?

FYI: There's a very easy way to rid the free-version of adverts. Not that I'll disclose it (that includes outside the forum) but needless to say it takes less time to figure it out than it does to argue about TGC's business model.

Bottom line is it's giving you free software. If you don't like it, download Code::Blocks and get cracking with one of the plethora of free 3D engines out there.


Silence is golden, duct tape is silver
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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 24th Jan 2013 09:38
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@nonZero-

DarkBASIC Pro is Shareware. Shareware is not free. Nothing is stopping TGC from giving away DarkBASIC completely as freeware, then requiring the purchase of some special license for large commercial projects (see: FMOD). Also, can't they just sell companion software? Lots of online businesses these days are downsizing, what with app stores and a crappy economy. The days of paying $100 for a piece of software are over. They could sell their tree pack for like $7, some cool character animating program for $10, etc.

Forget email registration and ads. DarkBASIC Pro isn't some shady file sharing website. It's a traditional software program! People shouldn't need hacks and workarounds and hundreds of megabytes of crap just to use the damn thing! The original DarkBASIC no longer has any of that, but TGC isn't literally just giving it away either. They charge for it. It amazes me that a community so large is made up of people who probably spent a lot of money just to get the basic software. Like AppGameKit, for example. I know it's new and cutting-edge, but it's just the next wave of soon-to-be-shareware proprietary game development software.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Jan 2013 10:14
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I actually think there's nothing wrong with the ad version, sure they're a little annoying, but you can learn to ignore them. I played with the free version when I misplaced my DBP disk (found it again though, however, I do have 3 copies now thanks to TGC's crazy deals).

Of course there are alternative ways of offering the software for free. For example, the way Unity 3D does it, they released the indie version for free and they mostly earn their money from the pro version, which is a requirement for larger commercial projects. I think one of the main issues is...exactly how many large commercial projects us Dark Basic Pro? There are some, but probably not enough to justify a commercial ad-free version of DBP.

The way Unity3D does it is attractive in another way, in that the indie version has fewer features than the pro version, which means those with the spare cash will cough it up. The lack of features in the Indie version is not encumbering but it gives people who aren't making large commercial projects to make the investment too. But then what would you prefer? Ads or a more restricted version of DBP? I'd take the ads personally. Heck, I'd take a Unity3D with ads if it meant I got full access to their shaders, though I doubt they'd do it because they'd probably lose money giving how much Unity3D Pro costs.

I think TGC adds more attraction to their software with the deals they throw out, it's how I've end up with 3 copies of DBP, 2 are on disk (my original disk and Dark Game Studio), the other digital (from the FPSC winter sale). Their software is of very good value and TGC seem to still be making money even if their current flagship is AppGameKit, but then the mobile OS is currently the popular market. The important selling point of TGC's products is that it's affordable and accessible game creation software.

There are freeware alternatives, as nonzero highlights, Code::blocks and free 3D engines (like Ogre and Irrlicht) or Visual C# Express and Mogre or Irrlicht Lime and any other free combinations. TGC's products have another selling point and that's their simplicity and accessibility to beginners.

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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 24th Jan 2013 11:13
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@Seppuku Arts-

I understand that TGC is probably able to make a lot of money how they're doing things right now, but I'm not sure we're on the same page in terms of future development and how the company might potentially make MORE money (as well as making the userbase happier).

Quote: "I think one of the main issues is...exactly how many large commercial projects us Dark Basic Pro? There are some, but probably not enough to justify a commercial ad-free version of DBP."


That's a big problem. Currently, shareware game creation prgrams like DarkBASIC and big industry game engines are considered two different things. There are some in the middle, such as Unity and Coppercube, and then there are some that go way over the edge into C++ open source development hell. I still haven't found the engine I'm looking for.
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DevilLiger
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Posted: 25th Jan 2013 07:12
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Even though I love Darkbasic I still recommend AppGameKit only because on the long way you won't disappoint.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Jan 2013 17:11 Edited at: 25th Jan 2013 17:12
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Quote: "
That's a big problem. Currently, shareware game creation prgrams like DarkBASIC and big industry game engines are considered two different things. There are some in the middle, such as Unity and Coppercube, and then there are some that go way over the edge into C++ open source development hell. I still haven't found the engine I'm looking for. "


I don't think it's a big problem. The point of DBP is to be affordable and still offer powerful results. I started using Dark Basic when I was 14, it was a fantastic way for me to enter programming and cheap too, as it was before there were any free versions. It was what originally attracted me, though of course at the time they didn't have as much competition (and the community was much bigger), our main rivals were the Blitz Basic lot. I remember some of the flame wars here over the two.

I am not an expert businessman (or a businessman full stop), so I'm not going to speculate the best business model for TGC, but I am also under the impression TGC is not as popular as it used to be and think it would be nice to see TGC bring back its popularity. Back in the day TGC were getting sweet connections with Alienware, Intel, NVidia and so on, Microsoft offered the free version of Dark GDK with Visual Studio 2008. It made competitions interesting and prizes were big and a lot of people got involved. I admit, the community no longer has that and I'm sure it reflects how successful Dark Basic is these days.

This is perhaps why TGC have their new flagship, AppGameKit, there are competitors out there, but there's a lot more activity in the AppGameKit boards than there are others and people are monetising from it. There are people winning competitions with it and TGC is getting its foot in for mobile development.


With finding the engine you're looking for, I guess it's a case of experimentation. I've tried many myself. My favourites are DarkGDK.NET and Unity3D...I just wish DarkGDK.NET was up-to-date and was compatible with DBP's plugins, DarkGDK 2.0 was supposed to do that but Mistrel seems to have vanished.

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