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Hi all!

I have been thinking about all these SDKs/tools and various methods of making a game, and I see many things that can make great games.

If we discuss all different languages here,,, I can understand that C++ is the winner, at least for job applications, c++ programmers are wanted there.

I can understand the benefits of using c++, because of it's power, reliability and the fact that it brings you 'closer' to the metal.
Some say it's faster, and yes,, partly true. It's not the language that's fast - it's about how the code is written

XNA, DBpro etc are a lot easier to use, but are not as attractive (never saw a job advert looking for these kind of programmers)

As said. I can understand that c++ is more attractive, but what do you think?

The benefits in C++ became apparent to me pretty much as soon as I started using it. But I think it's all a matter of execution, how you code, how you set things up and how you stick to that initial execution.

In my case I was converting a DBPro game for iOS, using Xcode and OpenGLES. So I was starting with a practically finished game, and all the meat of the project, the game logic could be transferred fairly easily. At that level, the main difference between C++ and DBPro is syntax - game logic tends to be it's own standard I find, and it's not really a case of learning C++ when you have a game already logic'd out (yes that's a new word and yes you can use it ). I think that after years of using DBPro, you start to work in ways that are just more effective in C++. Hard to explain because everyone is different, but I don't feel like I've learned C++, I just haven't let that stop me making a game with it. Now, I'm just annoyed at all those C++ books which put me off even starting to learn it.

I didn't bother with an SDK, the real fun is when you make your own functions, especially with OpenGL. For example in DBPro my game uses a mesh and vertex adjustments to make a water plain effect - but in C++ it's a custom GL vertex array. It's a bit like having total control over a mesh, it allows some cool tricks that are pretty difficult to replicate in DBPro.

Really though, it'll change within the next 5 years - people are seeing C++ as a low level language like C these days. Game centric languages and scripts are more viable now. An engine developer is always gonna need the low level languages, but game programmers won't. I'd say that making a good mod for a popular game is better for your CV than just writing a game - what industry people want are those that work well in a team, with an already established engine, not necessarily someone who can do it all from scratch. I think it's much more valuable to show that you can work with people, be a cog, and get results.

Mreecbi co a ip.ay oj.b. yr i.y cbyr... oops wrong keyboard layout!

Modding is a great scene to get into, you can learn a lot from looking at the code, and you'll have a whole community of people ready to test your mod, help you out and give it publicity. Look at all the Minecraft mods that have become super-popular, I doubt those modders have any original games that are as popular.

DarkBASIC is quite limited in what it can do, and it's not that well known either, so I'd be shocked to see anyone asking for experienced DB coders. It's still a programming language though and if you want a job you can show your prospective bosses what you've made with it. I haven't even gotten into graphics with c++ yet but it's obviously much more work than DB, but as VanB said:

C++ is a nice in between language that sits in the middle of Java and C. It has the object oriented nature of Java, but also the low level memory access and control of C.

With game programming, the attractiveness of C++ is that you have direct access to OpenGL or DirectX and have complete control over how your game engine is programmed. The downside is, you're going to be recoding basic game features that countless other engines have already implemented for you, and there is going to be a fair chance that your implementation isn't as good.

For general software programming, knowing C, C++, or Java will be a big help for job applications. A lot of software companies don't care about the language you program in - just that you know how to program.

I was always under the impression that Dark Basic (Pro) was written with C++. Anyone know? Anytime you increase the level of the language you lose power and add more bugs, but you get a language that is easier to understand and faster to write code with.

DBP is built with C++, but it's really more C because DBP doesn't use any OOP or anything C++-specific.


Of course if you're rolling your own DX engine it won't be as good as Unity or Unreal, that's why groups of programmers got together and created Ogre3D and Irrlicht and all of those other rendering engines. C++'s appeal to the game development scene is more it's ability to interface with just about anything.

I'm not very into the ways of C++ myself and usually find myself defaulting to C. I think that code portability plays a big role. C and C++ have the ability to be very portable (especially by defining things correctly, you can create code that needs minimal tweaking across systems). But beyond portability, C and C++ are very lightweight which means better application performance. I suppose one of the things C++ has over C is likely the labour-saving side of things. That's prolly why C++ became very popular. As a result, it is easier for a company to go with a popular language when looking for devs. With C++ one has a choice of countless engines so upgrading too is easier. Engine-specific languages tend to die out with that engine if it is not maintained.
Remember too that DBP is a tiny little hole in the wall. No business in their right mind would build upon something like that unless its one of us sad people coding from our garage - don't laugh, Apple started in a garage as well. So there we have the next thing; maintenance. How many of these other languages will still be maintained and in use years from now (outside the hobbyist arena).