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Geek Culture / Milk Paton, Paton Break, Jarvis Park Short Films (I used to haunt these forums!)...

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 28th Jun 2013 10:52 Edited at: 30th Jun 2013 11:22
I used to be here a lot more and made quite a few games with Dark Basic Pro. (such as Dumbow & Cool) I'm thrilled to see a few of you old timers still posting and I definitely lurk around here. I'm actually hoping to get back into this stuff but that's another story.



I just finished three short films which I've been working on for years, Milk Paton, Paton Break and Jarvis Park. They are about various existing characters and total an hour in length. Sound mixing isn't complete but still.

Milk Paton: Watch
Paton Break: Watch
Jarvis Park: Watch

I haven't shown these to anyone but I've always got a real kick out of hitting "post message" on the TGC forums and getting feedback when I completed games and short films in the past so I thought this would be the best place to launch them. It's become a ritual and I do know that some of you here seemed to enjoy the old versions of these!

Old TGCer
Drew

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Jun 2013 11:10 Edited at: 28th Jun 2013 11:26
Awesome sauce. Good to see you're still at it mate, I loved Milk Paton and Paton Break.

I'll catch these later and give my feedback.

[edit]
Watched the first episode, I miss Milk Paton's old voice, when you say you've not finished sound mixing, I assume that includes his voice. Not to worry, I enjoyed it.

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 28th Jun 2013 11:37
Thanks!

No, thats it - his voice won't have that effect anymore. The subtitles are a goner, too.

RUCCUS
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 01:59 Edited at: 29th Jun 2013 01:59
Cant watch them right now but I'll definitely take a look when I get home, I always got a kick out of your Milk Paton videos Drew. Wayhayyy!
Drew Cameron
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 20:40
Great: I hope you have fun watching them!

Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 03:36
It's great to have some new Milk Paton adventures! Sad to see some of the changes, but it's very high quality and cohesive now. It felt pretty much like I was watching some experimental Comedy Central or Adult Swim specials, so well done!
BiggAdd
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 10:37
Wayhay!™

Glad to see you back Drew! When I've got some time I'll definitely watch them!

What are you up to these days?

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 11:18
Agent Dink - thanks! It's always sad to see old things changed but I hope people can dig the new look/"rules" of the universe. It's got a different feeling but that's what happens when the years pass, people drop out and move and so on.

BiggAdd - yeah its great to be back here! AppGameKit catches my eye, who knows maybe I've got a game up my sleeve. What else is new around here?

Your question - these days I divide my time between doing effect& animation stuff to pay most of the bills and working on-set on film/TV (although not as much as I'd like) Looking to expand into that field further with these three new films.

Drew

BiggAdd
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 11:24 Edited at: 30th Jun 2013 11:26
Sounds great! Hopefully you can make it full time, you definitely have the talent to do so!

Just watched Jarvis Park and the first Milk Paton film. Thought they were brilliant! You've obviously toned back the crazy a little, but you've not sacrificed the laughs for it!

Is there anywhere we can access the old Milk Paton videos? Watching the new ones gave me a craving to see your old stuff!


If you are interested in AppGameKit btw, TGC are holding a kickstarter for AppGameKit V2 (If you haven't seen so already):
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tgc/app-game-kit-v2


Cheers,
BiggAdd

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 11:36
Old ones: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2DC4EFD2A8B58479 (you can at least see the first one, I've set the rest to private as I've been fighting youtube about audio copyright etc)


V2 has some pretty serious features. I'm thinking mobiles and so on are the future for indies; one of the reasons I bailed on game dev was because it seemed untennable to keep fighting AAA. Thankfully, the indie scene has really taken off in recent years!!

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 12:08
My feedback. To start with the changes seemed like it might not be as enjoyable, because I loved some of the crazy (like Milk Paton's old voice), but watching it I accepted it was a bit toned down and it got me the laughs. The production quality is certainly higher and I think Dink is right.

Would be interesting to see if you could managed to pilot it for a TV show.


As for game creation, it would be interesting to see you get back into it, I loved Dumbow and Cool and liked the Terrorist Arrows game as well. I've not got my hands on AppGameKit yet myself as I am a traitor who now uses non-TGC products. But still I have my fingers crossed AppGameKit will get to the £20k stretch goal on Kickstarters.

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 12:27 Edited at: 30th Jun 2013 12:30
Thanks guys!

I hope that we've hit some kind of middle ground between the old and the new.

I will be pitching it as a series for TV/distribution (I'll turn it into a 5 scripts for a mini series and write up a series bible) and using these as a "pilot" of sorts. I am not counting on this happening but it is absolutely worth an attempt since this took so long/cost so much. It does have 'series' / money spinning potential written all over it in my eyes which suits may see.


Seppuku; what other products are you using for your game dev? What else is out there these days? Is DBPro still maintained or has something else taken the mantle? I'd definitely appreciate some guidance if I would be looking to get back into it all!

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 12:33
Plus; do you have any game/dev projects you can show, Seppuku? I'd be curious!

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 15:59 Edited at: 30th Jun 2013 16:03
I'm currently using Unity3D with C# (the free version), though I am attempting to learn Leadwerks because I've always fancied trying C++ and it seems like a decent way to jump in.

With game projects, I'm working on Abeyance, I've not actually finished any of the projects I've started, but this one is the main one I'm focusing on. I did my prototype demo in DBPro and now working on it in Unity3D, I did get most of the demo done in Unity3D, but then I ended up getting a full time job and have other distractions preventing me from working on it fully. The DBPro thread for it can be found here. There's a link to the DBP demo in there, the animations were rubbish sadly as I focused mainly on code. The boss at the end is tough, but not impossible to beat.

Current status in Unity3D is that I'm porting the code over to a new project file to utilise the Play Maker addon. But more info will be available on my site when I actually get time for it XD.
http://www.seppuku-arts.com/abeyance.html

The last demo I recorded for the Unity 3D version looked like this.


Quote: "Is DBPro still maintained or has something else taken the mantle? I'd definitely appreciate some guidance if I would be looking to get back into it all!"


DBPro has been stagnant for a while as AppGameKit has taken focus, but it's still very powerful (has progressed since you developed Dumbow and Cool though), but the good news is TGC are working on FPSC: Reloaded and they're using a modified version of DBPro to develop it, so it would seem once FPSC:R is out, we'll get some cool new updates.

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 20:07
Just tried to download the DBP demo - wont work on Windows 7 ? Is that just me?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 20:13
Perhaps select 'Run As Administrator'. It was developed on Windows 7 and works on Windows 8.

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 21:01
Something about a DLL not been installed ... hmm! Let me try again on my laptop;

The video in the WIP thread looks really promising; how do you find Unity 3D to work with? Much more powerful but more difficult? Is there any kind of website or thread that might help me get my head around it? Interesting stuff - feel so out of the loop with game dev.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 22:58 Edited at: 30th Jun 2013 23:10
I'd say it's more powerful and has better performance, however, the drawback of the free version is that shader use is limited (but you are still free to use it commercially) and the Pro version is expensive. There are couple of other limitations, but the only to affect me is the shaders.

I would say learning C# is more complicated than DBP (you also have the option to use Java scripting as well in Unity3D), DBP forces you into procedural programming, whilst Unity3D will force you into object orientated programming, personally I find OOP more flexible, whilst procedural is more straight forward.

In terms of difficulty, once I got my head around OOP and how C# works I wouldn't say it's that much more difficult. It's pretty much a more complicated version of FPSC with a lot more flexibility. You code everything via scripts, the engine is already there and you've got an editor to put everything together.

Unity3D is also a lot more modular and it can be integrated with Visual Studio. You can apply scripts like they're a shader in a 3D modelling program, you can edit variables inside of the editor and if you cater your scripts to work in that kind of environment you essentially cut out work. Once it's coded you don't have to code more, you can jump into the editor and drag and drop entities to build your game and the editor has the ability to compile to multiple platforms such as Mac, PC, Linux (newly added), Flash, Unity webplayer, XBox 360 (with license), PS3 (with license), Android and iOS. Also, there's a whole asset store of addons, some to improve editor functionality, some to help improve how you code the game. One of the addons I used is called Playmaker, which offers visual scripting, it's limited, but combined with my own scripting, it's powerful.

I'll provide you with an example.
Let's say I want each character 'object' to have a series of stats, I can just drag and drop a script called "stats.cs" and it'll apply the logic to any of them I attach it to. Also, if I coded an AI script I could just drag and drop it onto an object in the editor and it'll have that AI.

With the 'stats.cs' script, I can view its variables inside of the editor and make changes for each character object I use it on:


In this you can see the player's name defined, their level and the skills they currently know as well as a few more things. In code that script looks like this:



The code in there is fairly basic, it'll look confusing to somebody unfamiliar with C# (or Unity for that matter), but I'm sure you can work out what most of it means, with some differences, like public and private variables. The difference is easy to explain, "public" means it can be accessed outside of this class whereas "private" means it can only be accessed inside of the class. This means all of your public variables will appear in the editor (unless you tell it not to), whereas your private ones won't.

If you used user defined types a lot in DBP, it might be easier for you to start using object orientated programming, essentially a 'class' (which makes up for how OOP works) is just like a UDT, but it can do a lot more, including storing functions. The thing I always loved about DBP was that it was always straight forward and it became quicker to start getting results, hence I still use it to make prototypes of code I want to use elsewhere. What I love about Unity on the other hand is that it makes the rest of the development process easier.

For instance, I actually recorded a video to show Unity3D's modular approach:
[yotube]NJ8wxR5cD5s[/youtube]

As for tuts, I found 3D Buzz to be fantastic.

For getting started with C# (and using the game dev frame of mind) here's a fantastic one on 3D Buzz.

Hyperion Text Adventure Tutorial C# (really helped me visualise OOP)

And for Unity3D, I started with this one:
3rd Perosn Character Controller
Which leads nicely into this one
Unity 3D Platformer

Of course, it all comes down to what you're looking for in a program or personal preference. Awesome games are still coming out of the DBPro community.

Quik
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 23:02
I'm using Unity atm, using javascript though^^ Making a sidescroller to learn the language - although.. level design is hard >:



Whose eyes are those eyes?
BiggAdd
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 01:20 Edited at: 1st Jul 2013 01:21
Unity is a component based game engine, so rather than either creating a very complicated class hierarchy or writing everything procedurally, you treat everything as a component of an entity, which makes things far more modular than pure OOP.

Rather than writing code that deals with objects, you write code for objects as components of that object. Materials, shaders, meshes etc are also all treated as components of an object.

I don't use Unity personally, but I've been writing a component based game engine in Java myself, and its far better than just OOP!

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 19:43
Okay - lots to take in but I think this points me in the right direction; thank you for taking the time to write this up for me.


Just to get back on topic a little bit; I have quite a few "making of" photographs if any of you would be interested in seeing a behind the scenes post?

swissolo
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2013 19:02
Just watched them all

swis
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Interstellar
tha_rami
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 03:48
Oh wow. Milk Paton. Drew Cameron. This is like a nostalgia rollercoaster.

Business guy and developer at [url]www.vlambeer.com[/url] - bringing back arcade since 1956.

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