Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

AppGameKit Classic Chat / App Game Kit 108 Beta 17

Author
Message
Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Aug 2013 06:37
Link
Beta 17 is now available in the downloads section, this only fixes a bug with iOS edit boxes. If there are no other major bugs then we'll make this the final 108 version, otherwise we'll never get to version 2.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Santman
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Sep 2011
Location: Inverness
Posted: 3rd Aug 2013 06:57
Link
Paul, did you delete the beta 16 thread when you posted this?

Did you see the post I;d put about the text objects not sizing correctly under a virtual resolution???
Back to top
Profile PM
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 3rd Aug 2013 12:12
Link
If you are deleting previous beta release threads, you should stop doing it because a lot of people post questions and reports in them.

Clonkex


Placement Editor Professional
Code Line Counter
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 3rd Aug 2013 12:18
Link
@Santman:

I just noticed that the beta 16 thread is not deleted. It's simply unsticked. You can see it here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=206866&b=41


Placement Editor Professional
Code Line Counter
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Santman
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Sep 2011
Location: Inverness
Posted: 3rd Aug 2013 12:26
Link
Unsticked? So you mean it's more information it's way down the list? Ah, I did have a look down a bit but I didn't see it. Thanks clonkex.
Back to top
Profile PM
Santman
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Sep 2011
Location: Inverness
Posted: 3rd Aug 2013 12:30 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2013 12:32
Link
Although, even though I highlighted something outstanding, as long as if it is an issue it's addressed in the v2 build perhaps it's best if Paul just moves onto that properly now? The issue with the text objects not scaling can be worked around by doing a check on its totalwidth not exceeding the graphic it's on, then if it does calculating a ratio of how much too big it is and then manually setting it's size again multiplied by this ratio. Seems to get around it.

There has to be a point where one beta is just going to blend into the other, no? So let's make that now.
Back to top
Profile PM
MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 3rd Aug 2013 12:42
Link
Just a matter of days for the Kickstarter to end

Guys, just click Paul's Profile button and view all his previous threads...

Back to top
Profile PM
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 3rd Aug 2013 14:01
Link
Paul:
Is 108 the last update to v1? There are still plenty of bugs left on the issues board. I hope you are planning to fix a lot of those early in v2. I think a lot of people are going to get angry if v1 will be left buggy. I don't really mind since I'm getting v2. But make 108 final and perhaps release a 109 with no new features, only bugfixes.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Santman
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Sep 2011
Location: Inverness
Posted: 3rd Aug 2013 16:09 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2013 16:28
Link
It is slightly confusing though - didn't rick say on fb more than a week ago work on agk v2 had official started??
Back to top
Profile PM
swissolo
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Jan 2010
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2013 21:35
Link
Quote: "It is slightly confusing though - didn't rick say on fb more than a week ago work on agk v2 had official started?? "

I think it's all going on at once At least that's how I interpreted it. Some of it we have access to (bug fixes) new stuff we don't.

swis
Joined: Tue Dec 16th 2008
Interstellar
Back to top
Profile PM
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 4th Aug 2013 05:57 Edited at: 4th Aug 2013 06:23
Link
Quote: "There are still plenty of bugs left on the issues board."


Yeah. Like, a LOT.

Paul, take a week or two off from V2 and do a monstrous bug-fix marathon....please

EDIT: By "off from V2" I mean don't work on new stuff, just fix what we have already.

EDIT2: Unless you're working as hard as you can on bug-fixing already. In that case, good work


Placement Editor Professional
Code Line Counter
Back to top
Profile PM Email
xGEKKOx
AGK Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Dec 2008
Location: Italy
Posted: 4th Aug 2013 18:03
Link
Hmmmm, i'm using 1076 because the 108 for iOS is not good.
I'm very disappointed...

I expect at least the "Super Light" version of 108 without additions of every genre.
I think you are doing a very bad marketing, you will lose much customers if you don't fix the 108 in all his bugs and you accomplish the customers requests.

I think AppGameKit is too much focused on Android, you are loosing the right way, where the money really come from.
IMHO, in september the iPhone C will be launched, is the end for Android and Java.
And more than this, iOS is launching his engine that is the same as AGK.

This is what i think.

Long life to Steve!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
JimHawkins
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Jul 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 4th Aug 2013 20:54
Link
Samsung Android phones alone out-sell Apple.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
Back to top
Profile PM Website
xCept
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 4th Aug 2013 21:49 Edited at: 4th Aug 2013 21:51
Link
Quote: "I expect at least the "Super Light" version of 108 without additions of every genre."


I never checked into the "lite" versions that have been included for the past several betas ("template_ios lite") have you explored this version to see if it does better for your needs? They don't include social or notification features.

Quote: "I think AppGameKit is too much focused on Android, you are loosing the right way, where the money really come from.

IMHO, in september the iPhone C will be launched, is the end for Android and Java."


I don't think even the cheapest iPhone will ever do much to sway people away from buying Android devices, of which many will still be more affordable. Android holds over 50% of the phone market in at least US, Europe, Australia... I've made more on Apple apps than Android and find the fragmentation issue of Android annoying, but I think they will remain increasingly strong competitors of Apple. The freedom to develop for Android on any platform is a definite strength for those of us who do not use Macs as our primary machine.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
george++
AGK Tool Maker
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th May 2007
Location: Thessaloniki, Hellas
Posted: 5th Aug 2013 00:35 Edited at: 5th Aug 2013 00:35
Link
Quote: "...If there are no other major bugs..."

What does this mean?
passing UDT's among functions is major bug for me. Is it for you?
Back to top
Profile PM Email
JimHawkins
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Jul 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 5th Aug 2013 00:56
Link
george++ That's not a bug. It's a limitation of the Basic. It reliably does not do it, because it wasn't designed to do it. Passing arbitrary structures requires pointers of some sort. Without a full re-design of the Basic compiler this is not going to happen.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
Back to top
Profile PM Website
xGEKKOx
AGK Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Dec 2008
Location: Italy
Posted: 5th Aug 2013 01:12
Link
I didn't mean that the Apple win the iPhone selling battle, but the developers (who sell, the other i don't know) use iOS.

For the "Super Light" i mean with NO AdMob, NO Facebook, NO Twitter, NO other...
I want only AGKLib.o in my framework.
The social, and iAD works better if you use OBJ C, or you have problem.

xCept you know what i mean, but you must think that if we code as a job to live, you want money at the start of the month, not fragmentation or open source.
I can't buy bread or meat with free apps or cracked apps on android.

I have also solved the Russian hack to the Apple in app purchase last month, and i'm earning also from users that think their hack go well ahahaahah, they are spending 50€ each time they try the hack.
When they request back their money, Apple give them the 70% of the amount, so i get the 30%!

Ehi, i didn't say nothing!!!

Long life to Steve!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
ET3D
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Jul 2013
Location:
Posted: 5th Aug 2013 16:42
Link
Quote: "Samsung Android phones alone out-sell Apple.
"


From everything I've read, iOS apps make 10x the money of the same app on Android. There may be more Android devices, but apparently Android users are cheap.

(And yes, I'm an Android user and I'm cheap.)
Back to top
Profile PM
haliop
User Banned
Posted: 5th Aug 2013 17:14
Link
GEKKO YOU ARE AWESOME!

btw does anyone knows what are the fixes in this release?
i tried to find them in the doc file but couldnt it says in the doc files that this is version beta 13...



http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=198467&b=22
Back to top
Profile
Mobiius
Valued Member
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 5th Aug 2013 17:20
Link
Quote: "btw does anyone knows what are the fixes in this release?"


Quote: "this only fixes a bug with iOS edit boxes"



My website! http://www.TeamDefiant.co.uk
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Markus
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Apr 2004
Location: Germany
Posted: 5th Aug 2013 17:38
Link
@JimHawkins,george++
about udts.
somehow it works but not perfect.
if they are global you can give it as copy to a function.
if they are local you can give it as copy to a function but it doesn't work, and no compiler error.
everybody who know this issue find a workaround.
this trial-and-error principle waste some time.
i think some backward compatible changes are doable and important.
but Everything at the proper time.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 5th Aug 2013 19:01
Link
Quote: "For the "Super Light" i mean with NO AdMob, NO Facebook, NO Twitter, NO other..."


The lite versions of iOS only include the AdMob lib which is a single library that no one has reported problems with, so adding it to a project should not be an issue. Facebook, Twitter, etc have all been removed from this project.

Quote: "passing UDT's among functions is major bug for me"


There won't be any compiler changes in 108 as Lee is focusing on Reloaded. I included the compiler stretch goal into version 2 so that I can justify devoting a couple of months to it and making it my own. It should then be much easier for me to make the fixes and feature requests that people have wanted from the BASIC language for version 2.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Santman
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Sep 2011
Location: Inverness
Posted: 5th Aug 2013 20:21
Link
Ok, so for clarity, we should now consider the old agk "finished" and assume that v2 is now underway??
Back to top
Profile PM
xGEKKOx
AGK Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Dec 2008
Location: Italy
Posted: 5th Aug 2013 21:49
Link
Sorry Paul,
i don't understand a thing....

If you say that with AdMob nobody has problem except me, and the Light version is not used so much, why you don't delete also AdMob from the Light version and make customers like me that only use iOS/MAC to choose which to include?

Nobody on iOS use AdMob (believe me), cause iAD pay much more.
Remember that Apple introduced the manual iAD Campaign from the dashboard from a minimum of 50$.
So the CPM will increase exponentially. (in fact i'm earning from them really much since they done this new feature)

Now you don't need a minimum of 5000$ to do a campaign and to call the support to start it.
When the iAD will be extended to all over the world, AdMob on iOS/MAC is useless.

Please look into the future and make a very Light version.

I think the multi platform in AppGameKit have a limit, and the limit is that each Platform have its own native code.

Let each device use the LIB it need.
If i'm using the 1076 today, there is a reason.
I want to use the 108.

Long life to Steve!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 6th Aug 2013 09:53
Link
Quote: "devoting a couple of months to it and making it my own."


Haha You'll need all of that time; Lee's code isn't the neatest

Do you feel like we're all demanding far too much from you, Paul? You're the only one working on the internals of AppGameKit, right?


Placement Editor Professional
Code Line Counter
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Santman
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Sep 2011
Location: Inverness
Posted: 6th Aug 2013 16:15
Link
Clonkex, are we really demanding too much by asking that bugs be fixed? I remember with a bitter taste that someone is was hired to do a final fix on dbpro..... That I don't don't think ever happened. Lol.

But you do raise a valid point on expectations. I'd raised the issue on text objects not resizing when a value of - 1 is used with setdisplayaspect, and Paul has now confirmed this isn't a bug, but just how it is. But within half an hour I'd worked around it anyway. Now I can understand if you bought a game and it failed to load a level, it is natural to expect it to be fixed, but agk is a coding language. The assumption is, basic as it is, that you understand the principles of coding. Now at it most basic level, in my opinion, coding is about finding ways to make a computer do something in the most efficient way possible, be it a game, app, Web page... Whatever. So, is it unreasonable to say, for example, I think have the entire engine needs redone so I can pass udts between functions, or is that actually asking the agk team to write half your code for you? Is it in an actual command set that it should do that, if so then yes, it's reasonable to ask. Is it reasonable to say "clearsceen" is meant to clear the screen but doesn't after beta X, so that should be fixed? If so, then yes.

So I guess my point is, are we asking to have things that SHOULD work be fixed, and if so why is that not reasonable? If we are not asking for things that are a feature to be added, , then yes, perhaps we are being unreasonable.
Back to top
Profile PM
Greenster
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2005
Location: US ©
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 02:52 Edited at: 7th Aug 2013 02:53
Link
I'm the original and most dramatic cynic of AppGameKit here, and even I said they had three devs working on it with all other TGC products now abandonware but still selling.

Turns out it's a lot worse than I said.

If you really want to get annoyed see how much work is being put into writing books and making other quick-to-market stuff, and how much time is spent sitting in bars and cons, by the people who are suppose to be developing all of this stuff that people are being charged significant amounts of money for..

It's past the point on mismanagement and poor ethics now. It's like a bunch of inexperienced kids are running things..
Back to top
Profile PM Website
xGEKKOx
AGK Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Dec 2008
Location: Italy
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 04:19
Link
Well, you must consider that they now have to respect the KickStarter Project for the founding they will receive.

Anyway, i understand this, but, AppGameKit is born like a 2D engine.

I can express my opinion looking my job.
I will found an incomplete 2D engine or limited engine (i mean it can be a big success if you continue to work on it), and i will be forced to use the 1076 till i will do a personal one with the Apple Sprite Framework.

I like AppGameKit very much, but i loosed something on the road, there is something i can't understand in the marketing or in the coding road map.

Maybe a clarifications to customers can be a good start, and after we can do a survey again.
I remember the last survey, the best votes gone to MUSIC/SOUND and 2D...

I want also to pay the V2, but i don't think i need it. This is why i didn't done my donation on KickStarter. You posted in the KS Project all what i don't need.

Sorry if i repeat myself, but think....
If Apple go for 2D there is a reason, and is the same reason i always repeated in other post.
If you wanna do 3D you need money and expensive hardware / studio / software....
2D sell more than 3D on mobile devices, do a research.

But if you want to develop a new "FarCry" engine to sell very much more and get good contracts, is another story, in this case, i will understand.

Long life to Steve!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
The Zoq2
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 11:57
Link
Quote: "how much work is being put into writing books"


The books were not written by any of the developers, Daniel wrote them for TGC but that didn't affect the development of the core products.

Quote: " all other TGC products now abandonware but still selling"


TGC have got 3 core products, Dark Basic, FPSC and AGK. DBP is as far as I know pretty free from issues and I think most people consider it "finished". It is also a very old product built on DirectX 9 which is probably on it's final stretch. Selling a finished product isn't realy an issue, is it?

Then there is FPSC which has had some issues but TGC have realised that and are now working on FPSC reloaded. They needed aditional funds to do it and the community helped, I don't se any issue with that. FPSC being rewritten may also lead to further development of DBP since it is built in DBP.

AGK which TGC, from the beginning said that they would sell upgrades to is now getting one of those upgrades which I see nothing wrong with.

I do however agree with you when you say that TGC are a bit to spontanious with new projects, look at freedom engine for example. It came out of nowhere and was suddenly the main focus of the whole company which looked almost like they abandoned AGK. Luckily that wasn't the case and they abandoned what most of us see as a failed project. But it is a sign of that TGCs economy isnt doing so good, using AppGameKit as a base and getting a monthly stream of funds from freedom engine was probably the idea with that and my guess is that they tried doing that instead of making V2. We have to remember that both AppGameKit and FPSC are made by 2 people and the revenue stream isn't realy what they need it to be. I hope that the kickstarter will fix the issue of TGC randomly going off to other projects, we pay them money in advance and they get forced to finish a project.

It is sad that AppGameKit v108 will be left unfinished in my eyes (there are way to many bugs for this to be a finished version, but I still understand TGCs reasoning on the issue, they are simply out of funds.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Back to top
Profile PM Email
JimHawkins
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Jul 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 13:50
Link
I think a clear distinction needs to be made between the core engine and the Basic interpreter. What are the remaining bugs in the core?

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
Back to top
Profile PM Website
The Zoq2
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 15:38
Link
As far as I know, there are a ton of bugs on the google issues list. Hopefully most of them will be fixed for V2 and if that is the case, wouldn't it make sense to fix bugs now and add them to V1 to finish that while working on V2?

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Back to top
Profile PM Email
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 17:59 Edited at: 7th Aug 2013 18:03
Link
Quote: "If you really want to get annoyed see how much work is being put into writing books and making other quick-to-market stuff, and how much time is spent sitting in bars and cons, by the people who are suppose to be developing all of this stuff that people are being charged significant amounts of money for..

It's past the point on mismanagement and poor ethics now. It's like a bunch of inexperienced kids are running things.."

Having worked for TGC I can tell you for a fact that you are wrong, and over the line of the AUP here. Please try to restrain yourself.

The very small team of three is doing everything it can to develop two core products, promote those products and stay (just barely) in credit. I lost my job because as much as they wanted to continue making apps using AppGameKit (and learn first hand what needed improvement), they couldn't afford to keep me on.

As has already been said the books are not written by the core team. Some members of the team go to events, not to drink in bars and have a great time but to promote AppGameKit and try to get it known by more developers and (hopefully) investors. There is far more behind such events than this even but I cannot discuss such things in detail.

I'm not saying TGC are perfect, nobody is but to question their ethics is beyond stupid.

1-There is a massive difference between a bug and a feature request
2-I know Paul well enough to know he will not be happy leaving V1 in an unusable state

Personally I have never found AppGameKit to be unusable, certainly no more so than Unity or any other game making "tools" that I've used. Every tool has its limitations (just try them) and most cost a great deal more for the full version.

By the way I just checked the cocos2D bug list, it is longer just for iOS. Remember that this is one platform with no 3D at all. Xamarin had a similar number of bugs just for iOS to cocos2D.

I have to admit I got bored looking for known issues in Unity as it seems they don't like to publish them (I wonder why?) but if you look at the rate the number of fixes increases for each release there must be about 500 'bugs' to fix for the next release...


Yes, he's me
Back to top
Profile PM Email
xGEKKOx
AGK Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Dec 2008
Location: Italy
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 18:34 Edited at: 7th Aug 2013 18:35
Link
Hi BaxSlash,

i agree with you.
What do you think of 2 separated AGK.

I mean....

AGK 1.08 can be the one with those features:
- The same as 1.076 but with bug fixed.
Stop!

AGK 2.0 can be this:
- 3D and what TGC want to add

I think this is the way to leave the first version complete.

TGC, IMHO, must do the final effort, to complete the 108 for who really need it and publish games and apps with it.
I don't wanna be racist against Tier 1 or Basic coders, i was born with basic, but i fell myself a little abandoned from the team.

Better have a 108 with the 1076 bugs fixed so i can continue to work with TGC and buy V2 in future.

You can answer me that if 1076 work, i can continue to use it, but if i read the bug fix list, i see some things that are related to 2D and text speed has been fixed.
So i want a complete 108.

The problem maybe is that TGC is mixing too much things into 108.
I continue to suggest to remove 3D, socials, admob from 108 when V2 will be in beta status.

What do you think?

Long life to Steve!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
xCept
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 19:00
Link
Well said, Baxlash. Of the 237 open issues reported for AppGameKit, fewer than 50 of them are actual "defects" and the rest are feature or enhancement requests. Looking through the list, I see quite a few open issues that have actually long been resolved but never closed. Having used AppGameKit for a couple years now, I have found nothing unusable about it. Many issues relate to the IDE which Paul needs more time to work on since that was Lee's original undertaking, so that's part of V2.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
24
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 21:11
Link
I wrote two AppGameKit apps in just under three months (on and off) at the start of the year and they're now running without issue on five platforms, and charting AMAZINGLY well on one of them If I was an independent developer, I would be VERY happy with my result! Sorry for the sudden post, just wanted to add a little 'feel good story' to this thread. I also used T1 BASIC, which is my favorite

Hogging the awesome since 1999
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mobiius
Valued Member
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 22:03
Link
God has spoken. lol


My website! http://www.TeamDefiant.co.uk
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
xCept
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 22:14 Edited at: 7th Aug 2013 22:21
Link
@LeeBamber, you should post more often ! Yes, as an indie developer I agree I've been very satisfied with the results of AppGameKit and it has paid for itself more than a hundred times over (notably with my $10k prize from Intel for a Tier 1 app -- another member also won $20k through AGK). V2 will bring many features that will make it just as capable as almost any other solution out there IMHO.

@xGEKKOx, you make good arguments. Since TGC is already supporting a "lite" version of AppGameKit I guess they could go all out by separating *any* third party dependencies (including Admob, Social, etc) so that it is just the AppGameKit core. At the same time, TGC's largest base of users are unlikely to ever delve so deeply into Tier 2 as you have to discover such issues
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 22:45 Edited at: 7th Aug 2013 22:49
Link
xGEKKOx I agree to some extent, I think for sure that dev work on AppGameKit V2 should not start until V1 is finished (by which I mean all the medium to major bugs are fixed).

I don't count enhancements as bugs and I don't count something one person has a problem with as medium to major. Some of my own bugs / enhancement requests are unlikely to be done in the near future and I am fine with that.

I think what is already in V1 is enough for what was promised in V1 anyway (including bug fixes).

A number of people have won tonnes of prizes worth many thousands of pounds. I have personally (outside of TGC) won several devices from AppGameKit which are worth at least three licenses from free apps (which is why I have backed V2 as a gold backer). I'm more than certain I'll make the money back!

Roll on V2


Yes, he's me
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Greenster
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2005
Location: US ©
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 22:47
Link
Quote: "Having worked for TGC I can tell you for a fact that you are wrong, and over the line of the AUP here. Please try to restrain yourself.

The very small team of three is doing everything it can to develop two core products, promote those products and stay (just barely) in credit. I lost my job because as much as they wanted to continue making apps using AppGameKit (and learn first hand what needed improvement), they couldn't afford to keep me on.

As has already been said the books are not written by the core team. Some members of the team go to events, not to drink in bars and have a great time but to promote AppGameKit and try to get it known by more developers and (hopefully) investors. There is far more behind such events than this even but I cannot discuss such things in detail.

I'm not saying TGC are perfect, nobody is but to question their ethics is beyond stupid.

1-There is a massive difference between a bug and a feature request
2-I know Paul well enough to know he will not be happy leaving V1 in an unusable state

Personally I have never found AppGameKit to be unusable, certainly no more so than Unity or any other game making "tools" that I've used. Every tool has its limitations (just try them) and most cost a great deal more for the full version.

By the way I just checked the cocos2D bug list, it is longer just for iOS. Remember that this is one platform with no 3D at all. Xamarin had a similar number of bugs just for iOS to cocos2D.

I have to admit I got bored looking for known issues in Unity as it seems they don't like to publish them (I wonder why?) but if you look at the rate the number of fixes increases for each release there must be about 500 'bugs' to fix for the next release..."


I respect the amount of effort you're putting into PR, but the time stamps and twitter posts are more than adequate for verifying everything I said..

Last DBP update:12th May 2012
Last DB update:28th Apr 2010
Last AppGameKit update:~4/12
avg AppGameKit beta release:1 month 1 week
avg lifespan of bugs on report board:6 months
number of devs currently working on beta of DB/DBP:0
last DB/DBP beta update:~3/12
Back to top
Profile PM Website
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 7th Aug 2013 23:07
Link
Greenster, I forgot to mention that I mentioned how annoyed you seem to Rick and he told me to let you know he would like to contact you when he gets back from annual leave to discuss the matter.

I have to say that what you've posted means nothing to me. No company will indefinitely support a product that is not making any money. NO company.

Do you complain to Microsoft that Windows 98 is no longer supported? That came out around the same time as DB I believe... how many developers do they have?

I worked for a software company that had over 4000 reported bugs and enhancement requests, some over 20 years old and it was still the top software of its kind in around a dozen countries around the world. If it hadn't been bought out by it's richer competitor it still would be!

It's not PR if I no longer work for TGC, it's what I believe and it's from experience.

I love DBPro and miss some of the things I could do with it but I no longer use it (except very occasionally), why? I found something that is more fun and easier to make professional quality games with.

I don't expect TGC to support DB, DBPro, FPSC, FPSC reloaded or AppGameKit forever. Have you written any software you promise will be supported forever?

How precisely do these dates and figures prove incompetence, sitting in bars and acting like inexperienced kids?


Yes, he's me
Back to top
Profile PM Email
xGEKKOx
AGK Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Dec 2008
Location: Italy
Posted: 8th Aug 2013 00:30
Link
Well BaxSlahes, i agree totally....
Is what i mean.

But, i can add to what you said, that if TGC had focused more on Template "Open and Run" than on including 3D in the 108, i think probably AppGameKit would be selling yet.
Maybe also a better Sprite Manager, 2D graphic....

For example, one of the most important functions was introduced lately.
MemBlock!!!!
With memblock i can avoid the Line, Circle, Box, and all the 2D graphic that using a sprite, can slow the system.
Now i use some of my functions to paint those shapes using memblocks.
I think for the 2D much more can be done to become the best product.

If i surf internet trying to search for an engine for Android/iOS, i always found 3D engines...
The other are the same as always....
Visual, visual, visual, drag the button and you have the button, drag the window, drag this, drag those.....
I don't wanna drag, i wanna code, and if is needed, i want to create things that are already integrated in much visuals editors.

My reason is i want to give my style, even if bad or good, but if i start a MMORPG, i wanna do windows as i want, with the title etc.
And cause i like to code, so for me is not a pain, as i'm a thunder in coding, i don't mind.

Anyway, i suggested AppGameKit to all my coder friends, and much of them bought it.
Nobody of them published an app....

Now, i ask to you all, who published an app here and is earning, and will use AppGameKit for his job for long time???
Me and.....

Long life to Steve!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 8th Aug 2013 05:20
Link
Quote: "are we really demanding too much by asking that bugs be fixed?"


No, not at all. However, I do feel we are all hammering on to Paul and I can just imagine him in his office saying, "Hey, stop it! I'm working as fast as I can!" Now that's not to say it's entirely our fault. I actually feel that there's far too little communication coming from TGC World. It feels like we're saying, "Look, Paul, this is broken! And this! And this!", and Paul's not listening. I firmly believe he IS listening and working as hard as he can, but he needs to post more often and at least acknowledge the issues, or at the very least, that he's reading our posts.

I don't have time to take into account every argument made so far, so I will say this. TGC is a tiny company of about 3 people. That's ridiculously small for one that's been going for 13-14 years. They're working their backsides off trying to provide us with a bug-free product while at the same time trying not to end up bankrupt. We need to settle down a bit and let them get to work. Paul really does know what he's doing.

Quote: "God has spoken. lol"


Haha that's almost exactly what I was thinking the moment I saw "LeeBamber"

Quote: "@LeeBamber, you should post more often !"


Well, he doesn't really have time, but yes, I have to agree. When Lee posts, some of the awesome that he's been hogging since 1999 spreads to all of us

@Greenster:

There's nothing wrong with DBPro, so why continue to update it when they have no money to spare and no free time?

DBC is ancient. Why continue to update it when there's nothing wrong with it and DBPro does everything so much better?

The last full AppGameKit update was ages ago because there's been so many betas in an effort to make 108 as stable as possible. Lee alone wrote the original AppGameKit compiler, which not only allows game creation on many platforms, but also works between two languages. If you think you could write a better cross-platform compiler and interpreter by yourself, go ahead. Show TGC how it's done.

The betas are so far apart because it's Paul by himself working on AppGameKit now, and he didn't write the code to begin with so he's having to learn how everything works.

Again, bugs are slow to be fixed because it's Paul alone working on them.

They only have three people and cannot afford to hire more. Which one do you expect to be working on DBPro?

@Baxslash:

I agree with everything you've said so far


Placement Editor Professional
Code Line Counter
Back to top
Profile PM Email
SolusHunter
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th May 2011
Location: Kent, United Kingdom
Posted: 8th Aug 2013 10:59
Link
Is it my imagination or is an Android build from 108 beta 17 much much slower than one from 1076?

Compiled the app from Windows version, and used the online APK compiler for the 108 build.

DarkBasic Pro 7.7 U77RC7 - AppGameKit 107
Windows 7 x64
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Grook
AGK Backer
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jun 2012
Location: Lancashire, England
Posted: 8th Aug 2013 14:00
Link
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of criticism, positive or negative but it has to be fair and justified. Some of the comments on this thread certainly are not fair or justified and are quite hostile - I really can not understand where this animosity comes from.

I'm sure the team could have done some things better. I'm sure they've made a few mistakes through the years. I'm also sure they'd be the first to admit it. The number of outstanding issues is only one factor to take into account. How many of those issues are show-stoppers? How many make the product unfit for purpose? Answer - none. Furthermore, if there was a show-stopper I have complete confidence that the team would act quickly to resolve it.

TGC is a small company and this brings issues with it but it's also the reason we can have a good relationship with them, a personal relationship if you like. It's also why we get an excellent product for a very small outlay. The value you get for the money you spend with them is staggering.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with criticising or complaining when things aren't great but please look at the positives too. I'm excited about the future of AppGameKit and I was more than happy to add some money to the V2 pot. As a tight-**** northerner, I wouldn't have done it without having faith in the project I was backing!

Good luck to you TGC with v2 and keep up the hard work.

"Happiness is contrary to the human condition" --White (to Black)
Back to top
Profile PM
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 8th Aug 2013 14:03
Link
Quote: "As a tight-**** northerner, I wouldn't have done it without having faith in the project I was backing!"

I'm from Lancs too (born near Wigan and raised in Ormskirk), laying out cash on V2 is a sure thing though in my opinion.


Yes, he's me
Back to top
Profile PM Email
MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 8th Aug 2013 14:16
Link
Quote: "if there was a show-stopper I have complete confidence that the team would act quickly to resolve it."


Indeed!, when Windows 7 SP1 killed DBPro, boy did they fix that one quickly !!!

I will begin a project which utilises DBPro and eventually AppGameKit once V2 arrives, cannot wait! BULLET PHYSICS!!!



Back to top
Profile PM
The Zoq2
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 8th Aug 2013 14:58
Link
I agree that TGC have probably done everything they can, but I can actually think of one bug that is a pretty big showstopper. Atleast for larger projects and was what made me go to T2. UDTs and arrays don't always work and on seemingly random ocations, they just break and return 0 when you try to pass them as parameters to functions. There are ways around it, and I know that Paul can't fix it with the help of lee. But it's still a fairly big issue IMO

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Back to top
Profile PM Email
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 8th Aug 2013 15:23
Link
Quote: "UDTs and arrays don't always work and on seemingly random ocations, they just break and return 0 when you try to pass them as parameters to functions. There are ways around it, and I know that Paul can't fix it with the help of lee. But it's still a fairly big issue IMO"

I have to say I haven't even heard of that bug. Is there a reproducible version of this?

I have some pretty complex UDT arrays in some of my games and not a single problem I haven't been able to pin down to a coding error...

I'd be happy to check any code containing such an error if anyone is willing to share?

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Back to top
Profile PM Email
The Zoq2
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 8th Aug 2013 16:14
Link
Like I said, I havn't used T1 for about a year now. I experienced the bug when I was working on my game for the ultrabook competition. But what happned was that an array with a UDT would sometimes pass 0 to a function no matter what the actual value was. To work around it, I had to assign the value to a variable and then pass it to the function.

For example:


Sometimes one of the parameters would become 0 when passed into a function. If im not misstaken, printing the variable would print 0

To fix it I had to do something like this


It seemed like the issue always occured in the same places in the code, but there was no pattern as to when it would actually happen. And tracking it down was a total pain.

As far as I know, paul is aware of this but can't fix it before he has become more familiar with the compiler itself

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Back to top
Profile PM Email
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 8th Aug 2013 16:39
Link
That's a strange one for sure. Not one I've ever encountered and I pass data into commands and functions that way a LOT.

Perhaps it was limited to an older version of AppGameKit? I am amazed that I have never had this issue considering this is exactly how I tend to code... I'll try to find the issue on the bug list.

If GetDayOfWeek()=5 then initParty()
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-24 23:29:09
Your offset time is: 2024-11-24 23:29:09