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Geek Culture / The Interesting Competition

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Libervurto
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Posted: 19th Aug 2013 11:16 Edited at: 19th Aug 2013 11:17
Quote: "So a child seeing a grown man masturbate and women fondling their breasts out for all to see is fine, because it doesn't fall into certain subjects?"

How is it going to negatively affect them? I think it is more damaging to try and hide sexual imagery from children, because they will go looking for it, and they will find far worse stuff than that!

Either way, I'm not too fussed about it. If a mod decides to remove the links then fine, but as Handy assures us they should be age restricted now.



The gluteus-maximus mammary-gland formally known as OBese87.
mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Aug 2013 14:28 Edited at: 19th Aug 2013 14:32
Quote: "should be age restricted now."

They always were, it's just a bug with embedding! I think somebody with youtube account should report youtube supprot about it.

SpyDaniel
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Posted: 19th Aug 2013 21:21
I just feel Mr Handy is trying to push his luck with stuff like this.. I'm still kind of in awe that the mods haven't even bothered to step in and answer my concerns and others. Just remember that TGC want the forums to be family friendly and what I saw is not.
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 19th Aug 2013 23:17
Perhaps the mods are discussing this and considering the options... or haven't looked at the thread yet.

As for whether it's porn or not... it's clearly not. Just like National Geographic magazines aren't porn. In my experience, arguments to the contrary have been from repressed individuals.

However, it's also been my experience that anything that requires "18+" is usually considered to be against the AUP and locked. Mike Inel (Did I get his name right?) had a few threads that ended up being locked... But those were threads, not posts. I don't think he was banned for it as he took precautions (e.g., "This is 18+! Adults only. Seriously.") and simply wanted to show off his work.

Because that video has an age restriction in place, it might be considered in the same manner.

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 19th Aug 2013 23:37
It doesn't mater if it is porn or if it is not, the fact is there is a ban and multiple women showing nudity. Is this acceptable in your eyes for young children to see on this forum? There are kids that use these forums and they have probably already clicked on the links. This is still unacceptable, be it art or not. I have a nephew and I wouldn't want him seeing this kind of imagery.
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 19th Aug 2013 23:57 Edited at: 19th Aug 2013 23:59
Honestly, I don't care.

My comment stated that it could be considered "adult content." Therefore, it is inappropriate if considered as such.

Edit: The purpose of my comment was to illustrate that there are clearly different viewpoints and it's ultimately up to the moderators. (This was done through example.)

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NIlooc223
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 00:01
Nudity today is taken way to serriously. It is the human body. Its natural and normal. Many cultures do not view nudity as such a crime. That is why there is "Fine nude" photography. It is the human body. It is normal. There is nothing wrong seeing it and not to mention the videos are not degrading. They are showing a side of culture.
Chris Tate
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 02:33 Edited at: 20th Aug 2013 02:33
I was wondering what kind of things some of you guys have been doing in your spare time? Looks like we have some porn-experts around here.

Was the video a part of your bookmark collection?

So, there exists a discussion about whether noob groping and masturbation belongs on a video games development lounge forum; how remarkable the human brain really is; very interesting indeed. I think someone just one first prize for the comp already.

I think that young kids should not be allowed on the internet without supervision; however,

I personally do not want to see saggy boobs and any form of penis around here or anywhere; so I will not return to this thread.

I suppose people who like that stuff could continue to post a couple more pages of 'nude-art' and enjoy themselves; and if people like me who don't want to see low quality boobs, can go elsewhere for the good stuff

thenerd
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 02:35
Remarkable it might be, but remember that like Chris Tate said, this is a programming forum. It doesn't seem the place for videos like that regardless of whether they're art or whatever else.

Doomster
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 03:25 Edited at: 20th Aug 2013 03:33
Kids grow up looking at breasts, so why is it such a delicate topic whenever a show / video / game contains nudity, especially when it's only the top-part? Kids won't grow up to be criminals just due to being exposed to nudity and they'll learn and see all these remarkable parts of the human body in biology class at some point anyway. There are guns / corpses / nightmarish creatures all over this place, so a couple breasts and the like should be... you know, the least trouble.

...but this has been discussed to death already, so we should better let it be dealt with by the mods. Opinions won't always change.

But to contribute, here's a interesting video I came across:



Quote: " I think that young kids should not be allowed on the internet without supervision; however"

So true. Only think about the positive effect regarding forums, comment sections, etc. if there wouldn't be any unsupervised kids, refreshing.
Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 04:40 Edited at: 20th Aug 2013 05:19
Quote: "I personally do not want to see saggy boobs and any form of penis around here or anywhere"

Even though this was a tongue-in-cheek comment, I think it highlights the issue that nudity has been perverted in certain cultures. There is nothing unhealthy about a child seeing nudity, quite the opposite, it will help them to see that they are normal and feel comfortable in their own body. I would say the same about sex, however, there are certain types of sexual imagery and pornography that would be damaging for a child to see. I have heard a few men say that pornography totally warped their view of women, and the only way to combat that is by being more open about sexuality, and not let dodgy porn sites be the only reference that young teens have for sex.

Anyway, this isn't really the place for such discussion, and I have no problem with having tighter restrictions on this sort of thing than I generally would agree with.



The gluteus-maximus mammary-gland formally known as OBese87.
mr Handy
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 12:08 Edited at: 20th Aug 2013 12:19
Quote: "Was the video a part of your bookmark collection? "

No, it was freshly taken from here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR5ICWMVgq4 (censored)

@SpyDaniel and @Aaron Miller
You both get calm already. Enough flaming this thread for no reason. Bug was fixed and everyone knows it except you!

P.S. slowpoke comment:


Aaron Miller
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 12:16 Edited at: 20th Aug 2013 12:17
Quote: "You both get calm already."

I am calm. He misinterpreted what I said so I corrected him.

Quote: "Bug was fixed and everyone knows it except you."

I was aware of this. I did not, in any place, say nor imply that I was unaware of this fact.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 12:28
@Aaron Miller
So you knew that there is no reson to talk about that. Post something on topic, that would be much better.

MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 13:36


back on topic

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 21:31
http://sebastiansylvan.com/2013/08/16/the-perils-of-future-coding/

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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 12:19 Edited at: 21st Aug 2013 12:24
Zangief sings the whole story of the first TMNT cartoon.

P.S. I bet you will ubderstand the lyrics



Kezzla
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 12:46
I will see your Zangief and raise you van damme in possibly the strangest film clip i have ever seen...



Burn retina, burn!
mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 13:07
@Kezzla, hey! I saw it yesterday in IMAX 3D! That was pretty carpet.

Nickydude
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 14:44
I must say Kezzla, that was one of the strangest compelling videos I've ever seen!

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
TheComet
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 15:21
@ Aaron - I'm about 40% future coder. I know it and I feel bad about it.

TheComet

Van B
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 18:00
That's a one sided article, it doesn't favor future coder techniques or ideals or realities.

The bottom line is that you probably wouldn't get an option which way to go. The project manager will say, 'work on this' (future coder), or 'I need this now' (pragmatic coder). Time is the factor - if we have the time, why not consider future options instead of just botching it together. Notice how nothing goes wrong for the pragmatic coder, even when it should. To me, the writer seems to be trying to justify his own methods, and he didn't even pick a good example to go with it. I mean a map editor... if ever theres a time to be a future coder, it's when writing an editor for other people, to be pragmatic with that, well that's just bad judgment. The client will ALWAYS change the spec, the client will ALWAYS miss vital details, the client will ALWAYS ask for changes later on. How much of a nightmare this ends up depends solely on how pragmatic, or how future-ready the code is.

In my opinion, pragmatic is just a polite way to say arrogant when talking about programmers. It's not a bad thing, I'd say it was pretty vital to have a little arrogance when dealing with computers, tackling a project that one person shouldn't really be able to, or have to tackle themselves, well that takes a little arrogance, no matter what head-shaped programmer you are. (lets assume we can tell a programmers style by the shape of their head, I mean, we probably can!).

I am the one who knocks...
Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 18:35 Edited at: 21st Aug 2013 19:11
Quote: "I mean a map editor... if ever theres a time to be a future coder, it's when writing an editor for other people, to be pragmatic with that, well that's just bad judgment. The client will ALWAYS change the spec, the client will ALWAYS miss vital details, the client will ALWAYS ask for changes later on. How much of a nightmare this ends up depends solely on how pragmatic, or how future-ready the code is."

10 points to Van B.

And now, for something completely different...




The gluteus-maximus mammary-gland formally known as OBese87.
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 19:40 Edited at: 21st Aug 2013 19:57
Van B, do you have an article that justifies future coding as well? I'm interested in reading their viewpoints on the matter.

Your argument, having cited a lack of "proper example," itself lacks example. You cited your own evaluations rather than why you came to those conclusions, for the most part.

It has generally been my experience that writing for the future, being difficult to predict in general, often results in cruft. That's not to say that having a good sense of design or the architecture you're building for, and potential change, isn't practical either.

I believe the overarching theme of that article is not to over-engineer things that don't need to be over-engineered. KISS goes a long way toward getting stuff done. The point you made about time is good, but it's only "considering future options." We're talking about a relatively small feature here within the map editor, something that really doesn't need all of that "future engineering." If we were talking about the overall architecture of the map editor, that would be different. That's not the case, so I won't entertain that thought further.

Pragmatism is not arrogance, though. Pragmatism is, by definition, looking at a matter in terms of practicality. If you were to say that pragmatism is something that causes the view of that matter to result in impractical application, then it is not pragmatism. Saying that pragmatism is illogical is to say that practicality is illogical. At which point it can be concluded that you clearly have different purposes than those which reward practicality. I believe what you're really arguing is over-simplifying, while the article here is, I believe, arguing over-complicating.

Is anything above a fallacy, provably incorrect, or opinion stated as fact? (Exception: My evaluation of what the article is trying to present as the evidence is the article itself and interpretations of points made can and do vary.)

The comments section of the article seems to make a similar argument as you.

If it matters any, I should point out that both John Carmack and Aras Pranckevičius (one of the renderer developers at Unity) seem to advocate at least most of the points that article makes. (link) Considering they're in the "game making" field, and how much they've actually done, I don't see reason to throw out the article without having first considered it. (As any deductive reasoner will tell you, be open minded.)

I should note that I'm not advocating the use for any of these methods. Ultimately it's whatever gets you better results, in my opinion. I believe that if you always do it one way, "pragmatic," or "psychic" without any regard for the other, you'll have consistently bad results outside of controlled environments.

Don't forget that if the clients always change the specs, requirements, etc, and you always listen to them and don't have an agreement put in place to prevent that, then you're allowing it to ruin the software you're developing, at monetary and cognitive expense. (I view this from the perspective of a lone contractor.)

----------------

Pragmatic Programming - Quick Reference

Edit: That link is posted not as an argument for nor against "future coding." However, if you take it as such, you might see a difference in approach to what is advocated in that article as "pragmatic programming," and what is advocated in that quick reference. Terms seem to get thrown around without regard to what they actually mean.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 20:05
The way I work is to get a bare-bones version up and running, but all the while keeping in mind what I want to add in future. If there's some possible feature that isn't strictly necessary but might be useful, then I weigh up whether it is worth the time saved vs time spent implementing it. You have to draw the line somewhere and just accept that if things change you will have to re-write.



The gluteus-maximus mammary-gland formally known as OBese87.
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 20:09
That's a good way to be, Libervurto.

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TheComet
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 20:15
I think it boils down to when to use what. There are situations where future coding is essential, and situations where programmatic coding is essential.

TheComet

Van B
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 22:05
Just my POV. I mean, there's a few things in the article that just annoy me, too many assumptions about how these lowly future coders work. For example:

Quote: "
The future-coder starts thinking about how to accommodate this new request into his streetlight-placing framework. damn-damn-damn, he thinks, a frustrated panic starts to spread in his mind. He never anticipated this change and can’t really see how to update his system to handle it.
"


See what I mean - that's hardly a balanced viewpoint, and when I read that, then the hassle free world of the pragmatic is reveled. Give me a break!

It can be easy for me to miss the point with this, I'm self taught, I don't really get why or how other people program - I never watched anyone else program without a severe urge to throw them out of the chair and take over. If I didn't make allowances for the features that people will ask for next, then my job would be so much more difficult. I'm seeing this from a bespoke software engineer POV.

Really, I think it's 2 sides of the same coin and it boils down to (what I think) is a lot of programmers point of view, mine included...
Either, people do it MY way.
Or, people end up doing it MY way.

I'm not good in teams
Sept Cliff

I am the one who knocks...
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2013 22:35
Hahaha, okay Van B, I can respect that.

TheComet, yes. That's probably a better way to phrase it than how I was trying to.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2013 01:58
"Why Do We Get Bored?"


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TheComet
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2013 02:08
Trees shouldn't be able to suck water up further than 9.81m high, because at that point you have a perfect vacuum from sucking. This video explains how trees do it.



swissolo
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 02:28



Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 02:34
Well, I guess now we know that the Nokia phones are pretty scratch resistant!

Seriously though, do people actually do that...?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 02:39
Awesome. I've got a Lumia...but erm...nope! Not gonna try it. But it is a pretty damn solid phone. Survived some drops without any marks.

MrValentine
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 03:22
swissolo - you missing an animated banner ^^

This thread is getting interesting

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 03:41
Aye, glass is (in theory) harder than metal, and shouldn't scratch. But I'm not certain about that...
Libervurto
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 09:00
@Swissolo — I found that less interesting than the dog-horse.



Formerly OBese87.
mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 21:35 Edited at: 24th Aug 2013 12:11
EDIT: nah, that's no so interesting. /video removed

TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 21:43
May as well post this here.



TheComet

Libervurto
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 22:22
@Comet — Interesting, so only light of the same polarisation can interfere?



Formerly OBese87.
swissolo
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 23:16
Quote: "@Swissolo — I found that less interesting than the dog-horse."

Perhaps this means you have not considered the future of knife gaming. It's undoubtably revolutionary.

Quote: "swissolo - you missing an animated banner "

I saw them, I just didn't want to add to the distractions on pages since some people were a bit unhappy. Also for whatever reason the AA is cleaner on the unanimated version

TheComet
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Posted: 24th Aug 2013 03:12
They are giving AIDS to CANCER.



TheComet

Libervurto
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Posted: 24th Aug 2013 12:11
Wow...



Formerly OBese87.
Libervurto
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Posted: 31st Aug 2013 13:53




Formerly OBese87.
Libervurto
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2013 22:01
Great advice for budding programmers.




Formerly OBese87.
TheComet
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Posted: 6th Sep 2013 22:11
This left an impact with me.



Your opinion and the incorporation of thermal noise equations in a high-voltage oscillator circuit are mutually equivalent in relevance.
mr Handy
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Posted: 6th Sep 2013 23:27
Now mr Handy hate cellphones.

mr Handy
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Posted: 7th Sep 2013 00:28 Edited at: 7th Sep 2013 02:12


update:


mr Handy
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Posted: 12th Sep 2013 20:17


Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Sep 2013 18:52



Formerly OBese87.

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