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Geek Culture / The greatest Final Fantasy game of all time, now on Steam!

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 02:23
Final Fantasy VIII

Yes! That is correct! Final Fantasy VIII is on Steam and they even added achievements and other enhancements! ...so I'll see you guys in a week...

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Seditious
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 02:28
Have you not heard about the PC version released 14 years ago?

Still, that's pretty cool. Been playing the PSX version on the emulator lately and I'm gearing up to fight Omega Weapon before I finish the game.
JLMoondog
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 03:06 Edited at: 6th Dec 2013 03:07
I do own the PC version from many years ago lol. Only problem is I can never get a controller to work with the game, or at least get all the controls to work. I always get some weird graphic bugs too, Sprite tiles showing the grid spaces, etc. I'm curious to see what achievements you can earn.

Looks like they added a play mode that cheat's with the magic, won't play that mode, blah...why do they do that?? FF7 had micro transactions. Are current gamers really that bad at decently difficult RPG's?

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Quik
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 07:07
Quote: "Looks like they added a play mode that cheat's with the magic, won't play that mode, blah...why do they do that?? FF7 had micro transactions. Are current gamers really that bad at decently difficult RPG's?"


not sure how that's BAD though - more options to play the game.



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nonZero
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 09:59
I don't like extras. They kill the classics. It'll never be quite the same as when I played it on PlayStation, *sigh*.

Quote: " I do own the PC version from many years ago lol. Only problem is I can never get a controller to work with the game, or at least get all the controls to work. I always get some weird graphic bugs too, Sprite tiles showing the grid spaces, etc."


Have you tried a program called "Xpadder"? You can use a game controller with any PC game because Xpadder detects button-presses and then sends user-defined Keyboard/Mouse inputs to the system.

Quik
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 16:02
Quote: "I don't like extras. They kill the classics."




*sigh*
As long as they dont change the core game I have no problem at all with these stuff - they're released. Let them be re released, if you want to play the classics then get ahold of a PS1 and play it there. If we're to go there anyway: "Steam killed the classic becuz it's on staem laozl"



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mr Handy
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 19:01
Yay for Final Fantasy!



nonZero
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Posted: 9th Dec 2013 15:13
Quote: "*sigh*
As long as they dont change the core game I have no problem at all with these stuff - they're released. Let them be re released, if you want to play the classics then get ahold of a PS1 and play it there. If we're to go there anyway: "Steam killed the classic becuz it's on staem laozl""


I agree with you pragmatically, it doesn't change the core game. However it's just my personal feelings as I find many extras such as achievements, easy gameplay modes, etc to interfere with the atmosphere of the game from my personal perspective and it detracts from my personal enjoyment of the game -- especially when the gamepley can be or is affected.

I think there are "extras" out there that I could be happy with too. For example, being able to see the original storyboard art is a positive but cheat & easy gameplay modes designed purely for the gratification of people who aren't capable of beating a game on their own are detrimental to it as are adding things to the game that weren't there in the first place (like Achievements).

Just my personal opinion. Take it, leave it, have it on toast, whatever. I'm just explaining why I feel the way I do because I know it's in fashion to act like a purist these days and I don't want anyone to think I'm just jumping on the band-wagon.

Btw, I do have a PS1 I have two actually, though one is for replacement parts.

Seditious
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Posted: 9th Dec 2013 15:15
Woop woop, I managed to beat Omega Weapon and finish the game the other night.

Quote: "However it's just my personal feelings as I find many extras such as achievements, easy gameplay modes, etc to interfere with the atmosphere of the game from my personal perspective and it detracts from my personal enjoyment of the game -- especially when the gamepley can be or is affected."


Agreed.
Quik
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Posted: 9th Dec 2013 16:36
Aye, you are allowed to feel that - however, Don't wack the game for trying to get new people to get it - AND trying to get oldies back.

I'm considering getting it - I never did play it on my PS1.. I owned it, but never got around to play it - and once I did, the CDs didnt work :/



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JLMoondog
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Posted: 9th Dec 2013 18:22
Quote: "and once I did, the CDs didnt work :/"


They never worked lol! You had to stand your PS1 on it's side to get it to work. I'm not kidding! This only happened with FFVIII. I think they fixed this issue by IX.

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Quik
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Posted: 9th Dec 2013 19:03
Is that so? well, I was like what, 9? No way i couldve figured that out xD
Oh well - now I know that, 10+ years too late xD



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Dec 2013 00:51 Edited at: 10th Dec 2013 00:53
I am happy about this, yes I have the original on PC and yes it works great on my Windows 8 machine, glitches are very minor and require no tweaking for me (unlike Vista & 7). Buuuut, I will still probably buy this - maybe once Christmas is out of the way. If people haven't worked out, I'm a terrible FF fanboy, but at least not the obnoxious type.


On the note of parodies:



nonZero
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Posted: 10th Dec 2013 11:07 Edited at: 10th Dec 2013 11:08
Quote: "They never worked lol! You had to stand your PS1 on it's side to get it to work."

Mine did. Although when I first played the game, I borrowed it from a girl -- no jokes, a female gamer -- and her CD froze on one of the FMVs. I didn't know any of the "tricks" back then. However, when I got my own FF8, it worked fine.
Note on the PS1: I found that turning it upside down on read errors worked (so does replacing the laser unit, lol). It was kinda weird.

Quote: "however, Don't wack the game for trying to get new people to get it"

Why??? Publicly distribute a product and you open it to public criticism. Though I wasn't actually whacking them for that; just generally criticising the way they/everyone did/does it with regard to older games, although I do admit that the real responsibility lies with the new breed of gamers since they are the majority and the majority dictates the market, sadly.

Quote: "I'm a terrible FF fanboy"

as am I.
Quote: "but at least not the obnoxious type."

I'll admit, I'm probably somewhere very close to that threshold since, to top it all off, I'm not terribly fond of the post-PS1 FFs (Not that I didn't enjoy X and XII, just that they didn't have the FF feel to them). I suppose this is what getting older is about; getting used to the idea of change -- That word still causes shivers to go down my spine. Takes me back to my teens when I used to get really annoyed with the older generation criticising things yet I now feel the same way they did about a lot stuff. Funny sort of world.

All that being said, I'd possible still consider buying this someday merely because I'd finally be able to play FF8 on my PC -- unless I could still find the original PC version of course.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Dec 2013 11:48 Edited at: 10th Dec 2013 11:48
Quote: "I'll admit, I'm probably somewhere very close to that threshold since, to top it all off, I'm not terribly fond of the post-PS1 FFs (Not that I didn't enjoy X and XII, just that they didn't have the FF feel to them). I suppose this is what getting older is about; getting used to the idea of change -- That word still causes shivers to go down my spine. Takes me back to my teens when I used to get really annoyed with the older generation criticising things yet I now feel the same way they did about a lot stuff. Funny sort of world.

All that being said, I'd possible still consider buying this someday merely because I'd finally be able to play FF8 on my PC -- unless I could still find the original PC version of course.
"


I'd say X & XI managed to retain some of the FF feel - styles in FF have shifted before when switching platform. XII tried to be more like XI but cut out some of the FF lore & some of the styles typical of the genre, I felt and felt less like an FF but was still a good game. XIII I just couldn't like, the story wasn't too great IMO, characterisation didn't win me over, the game was too linear (at least, right up until the end) and the battle system was too dumbed down for my liking. I like strategy, the way I've always viewed turn-based RPGs is that they're about strategy. I'd say the most 'Final Fantasy-like' game of the current generation is perhaps Lost Odyssey, which to be fair was created by some of the original team of the FF series. Speaking of which, on of the great shames is that the games no longer have that Nobuo touch.

Talking of strategy, you wouldn't beat Omega Weapon via brute force and button mashing alone. FFXIII just felt weak battle wise. This is why I consider XI to feel like an FF, it uses the classic job system, keeps very close to FF lore and it was more slow paced and based on strategy and of course had difficult boss fights - in fact it earned a reputation for it.

FFXIV is similar, but it follows the format of modern MMOs, which is kind of disappointing - because FFXI at least tried to retain something similar to the original battle system, but there's still difficult boss fights - sure no Pandemonium Wardens and Absolute Virtues, but ones that are still challenging and demand strategy. Also brings in classic FF bosses, like Demon Wall, Ultimate Weapon, Ifrit & friends and they're bringing the Crystal Tower from FFIII in an update next week. Granted though it has lost the feel due to the modern MMO format.

At least the game goes out in true FF fashion with a long dungeon at the end, lots of cutscenes and multiple final bosses. They made the dungeon a two parter, which are long even without the cutscenes.




The original release was abysmal, but in their revamp they've made massive improvements, which has restored some of my faith - just hoping once the Lightning saga is over they will release a single-player title I'll enjoy.

Still, I keep playing the classics as well, like I said, I'm a bloody fanboy and probably need to get a life. It's ridiculous how many hours I've put into the series as a whole.

nonZero
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Posted: 10th Dec 2013 12:33
Quote: "I'd say X & XI managed to retain some of the FF feel - styles in FF have shifted before when switching platform.
"

I've never played the multi-player FFs. Not just for lack of internet but also, I've never gotten into multi-player games.
It's true that X had a a lot of the basic FF feel. My major criticisms were the leveling system (that silly sphere grid thing), Bloody Blitz Ball (+10 for alteration) and, for me the biggest killer, it was a talkie. Strangely I have never been able to get over that. I dunno why but I just loved the dialogue boxes. It's strange because they greatly restrict games in some ways but I loved that aspect of the FF series when I first play VII on PS1. Oddly, it was the only PS1 games I'd ever played without voice actors (Putting previous generation consoles aside).

Quote: "It's ridiculous how many hours I've put into the series as a whole."

As have I. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I mean you could use the excuse of "research" if you really needed a justification, lol.

Quik
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Posted: 10th Dec 2013 17:13
@Nonzero - I am just saying that it's nothing wrong with ADDING to the product - as long as it's possible to experiencing it, without the newly added stuff. If they were to edit the actual game then yes - i'd understand your concern. However, As far as I understand, they just added "Modules" and such on the side of the game. And that's fine. Because in the end of the day - the original game still exists. It exists in physical form Ala PS1 and it exists in the less "legal form" of emulators. This is the original game, with extra stuff so that people wont feel like "Do I really want to buy the same game.. again?"
I know I wouldnt buy it hadn't they added more stuff. And I am appreciating that they are atleast taking the time to add more stuff, rather than put it in a shinier box and re-release it.

Hopefully that message made it across without shattering 10 times on the floor.. (I am HORRIBLY bad at formulating myself, you see ^^)



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Dec 2013 22:45 Edited at: 10th Dec 2013 22:46
The spheres thing was not my favourite of the systems, but they've always varied game to game, from buying spells (like FF1) to the Materia system of FFVII, to the draw system of FFVIII, to learning them from items like in IX and so on. Blitz Ball, I'll be honest, I enjoyed it, to me it was a mini-game and I loved the series' minigames, which is one reason XIII disappointed.

'Talkie' on the other hand, I'll agree the transition was a bit weird for me too, because like reading a book you gain your own interpretations of the characters and when you start adding voices it can ruin them, especially if the voice acting doesn't work and voice acting is one of the biggest failings in the JRPG genre, they're probably great if you're Japanese, but not so great if you're an English speaker. For this reason if there's an option for Japanese dub & English sub I'll go for it, for example, the English voice acting in XIV is god-awful, but the Japanese feels much more suitable. I suppose it's one of those things easily remedied, I suppose I never actually considered it before now...but switch off voice acting and turn on subtitles.

But still, for me my favourites will be VI, VII, VIII & IX. Heck, I loved XI to pieces, though it was one of those MMOs that didn't like casual players. I doubt SE will create anything as great again, but they still make game I enjoy, it's just happens that I don't like what they've done with XIII - I've not even thought about buying the sequels...even with the painfully obvious marketing ploy in XIV of putting in a Lightning cameo as part of 'Lightning Returns'.



Speaking of which, there is one thing that did bug me about XIV, in the above screenshot I'm playing as a summoner and that rockish-looking thing giving the monster an uppercut is my Titan summon - he's pathetic compared to the real thing and summoning doesn't feel as awesome or epic as it does in other titles, heck even XI got summoning right and it was an MMO too.



JLMoondog
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Posted: 11th Dec 2013 01:20 Edited at: 11th Dec 2013 01:21
I remember XI when it was first release. I was a got my copy at midnight, install and waiting for the server to let me on for 4 hours person.

I liked how it wasn't made for the casual gamer. It was also my first MMO and coming straight from playing IX(since I didn't own a PS2 yet) it felt perfect. FF with friends.

Then there was the online card battle, which was also awesome. I spent so many hours on both games. Only thing that urked me was spending all my gil on a fishing pole then having it break the first time using it.

I never attempted to become a summoner during my play time. I spent allot of time with my black mage. I really felt like I was investing in a character and then interacting with others it felt like a living Final Fantasy world. I miss those times. Although WoW and the like have the market right now, I still think FF was better because of the social and story telling aspect.

Ah, and leaning back in the chair with the keyboard in your lap was the way to play, lol!

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Dec 2013 02:30 Edited at: 11th Dec 2013 02:32
I found it was a lot more social as well, probably because you couldn't really progress without it. FFXIV is similar in that respect, though I think party finders and the concept of a 'pick up group' and such like have reduced the social interaction in such games. You can just roll with random people and run through a set strategy and win rather than looking for people to join you by asking people to join, discussing strategies and also being social at the same time.

On FFXI I ended up levelling quite a few jobs because I did kind of play it too much. Scholar, Corsair, Puppetmaster, Dark Knight, Monk, Ninja, Ranger, Summoner (but not all the way) and I was on my way with Blue Mage. What I also loved was that one man's strategy is another man's failure, because play styles had some variation and of course each job was unique and couldn't be used in the cookie cutter way we see nowadays. If you looked on posted up strategies, you could see a whole list of variations on a single boss.

For example: clicky

My group's strategy is on there somewhere, but you can see a long list of people's strategies and this isn't exactly a major fight. Mine was the group with the 90MNK, 79WHM and 90SCH, as you can see the other good thing was you didn't have to be at level cap to be useful in high level content just based on how the game scales.

My only gripe really was the biiiiig time sink. Getting a Relic/Mythic/Empyrean in XI for example, is asking for no life. Getting a Relic in XIV is significantly less time consuming (I've just started mine, despite being level 50 for a while).

nonZero
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Posted: 11th Dec 2013 18:32
@Quik:
Quote: "@Nonzero"

It's nonZero
On the more serious note, I do understand where you're coming from. I just don't personally agree. The way I understand why soda cans in my country are now 330ml and no longer 340ml -- it makes economic sense because it saves the manufacturer tons but 10ml less doesn't harm the consumer, technically -- but I still disagree with it because I feel that I'm being cheated on principle. It's a matter of perspective, not fact. Some people enjoy "remixes" of classics, I usually don't (I can't say never though).

Quote: "Hopefully that message made it across without shattering 10 times on the floor.. (I am HORRIBLY bad at formulating myself, you see ^^)"

Perhaps you're misunderstanding me, causing you to think I'm misunderstanding you. Or maybe I am misunderstanding you. Maybe we're both misunderstanding each other. Imagine a deaf person and a blind person alone in the same room. Maybe we're those people and we just don't know it because the deaf one has been having auditory hallucinations his whole life and the blind one has been having visual hallucinations, both of which have coincided with everything that happens to have happened in our lives up until this point -- excluding this conversation, of course.

BTW, I know, based on your message, you don't mean that offensively but phrases like "Hopefully that message made it across" are usually associated with a patronising tone in English. I'm just warning you because there are some people who might take it the wrong way without examining your post.

I guess what I'm saying -- in the longest possible way -- is this is a pretty pointless debate. You're entitled to your opinion (and to voice it) regarding not having issues with the extras, I'm entitled to mine (and to voice it). Neither of us are, however, entitled to tell the other one not to voice theirs unless that opinion conflicts with the AUP. For example, I shouldn't voice my very political opinion that vegans are part of a global conspiracy led by the Illuminati to weaken the human race by depriving them of protein so that when The War happens, their troops will beat us... I suppose I did just express my opinion but it was indirectly so it doesn't count. Does it? Mods? Oh well. Anyway that's my point, I think.

Quik
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Posted: 11th Dec 2013 18:36
I dont think i've told you that you cant have the opinion you have though - I dont think atleast...
or hope

Quote: "BTW, I know, based on your message, you don't mean that offensively but phrases like "Hopefully that message made it across" are usually associated with a patronising tone in English. I'm just warning you because there are some people who might take it the wrong way without examining your post."

Thanks for that though x)



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Wolf
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Posted: 11th Dec 2013 19:14
Ah come on! Eight is a boring pseudoromantic failure compared to Seven.

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Quik
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Posted: 11th Dec 2013 19:17
@Wolf
It certanly looks better visually - both character desing wise and graphically ^^



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Le Shorte
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Posted: 15th Dec 2013 08:21
Never got more than about 10 hours into a FF game. It's just the JRPG formula I really don't like. My main problem is the grind-centric gameplay.
That being said, I've played FF1 on PSP, FF3 on DS, FF7 on PC (the recent rerelease), FFX on PS2, FF12 on PS2, and FF13 on PS3.
My least favorite is FF13. Really digging FF7 right now. Just started playing it again. Too lazy to continue FF1, FF3 I got stuck on. FF10 I got stuck on because I didn't grind enough. FF12 I got stuck on because I didn't grind enough (ended up being around level 12 where you should be level 20. Couldn't even make it to the boss). I got about 5 or 6 hours into FF13, but I just couldn't do it. The combat got really slow for some reason and it just all got very boring to me.

I love CRPGS (excluding almost anything Bethesda. Yes, even Oblivion, Skyrim, and Fallout 3. Can't stand them) like Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, The Witcher, etc. but I really can never get into JRPGS. Not even Kingdom Hearts drew me in. Can anyone recommend some gateway JRPG to help me get into the genre? Preferably one that isn't excessively grindy.

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 15th Dec 2013 10:44
JRPG = Grind

But there is Legend of Dragoon for ps1. There is a trick my brother and I have found. Don't grind. Don't level your combat skills. Run through the game as fast as you can. Use your dragoon transformation as much as possible, including ultimate moves during boss fights. You will destroy bosses very fast. Since they level with you then they die very easily.

If you run through the story line without taking on side quests, you can easily go through the game without grinding. Our record was beating the game in less then 5 hours. Though that's mashing the talk button super quick and utilizing the skip cutscene trick you could do on the original ps1, not recommended lol. It's a really awesome game with a great story line. It's one of those games fans have been craving and begging for a sequel since it was released.

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 15th Dec 2013 11:18
Quote: "Can anyone recommend some gateway JRPG to help me get into the genre? Preferably one that isn't excessively grindy."

That actually fits FF8 pretty well; it's the only FF game where the monster levels are based on your own
You don't even need to grind for magic, you can learn some GF abilities to make spells from items and those items from cards that you can win from NPC:s. That sounds like it would be even duller to me though, but it is entirely possible.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Dec 2013 13:48 Edited at: 15th Dec 2013 14:00
Quote: "Can anyone recommend some gateway JRPG to help me get into the genre? Preferably one that isn't excessively grindy.
"


I agree with Rudolpho, FF8 fits that bill. Also, FFXIII I found to be really dull, so I really can't blame you that you found it boring.

Alternatively, to look at a different type of JRPG, it's possible you might like Nier. It's...a weird game, but I found it fun, it has some good voice acting (which JRPGs really suffer from), though some of it needs improving, it has a great soundtrack, a decent story - though there are places that it could have done with being a bit stronger and the gameplay is fun and can be varied. Looks like a Devil May Cry clone to begin with, but actually feels very different.



Judging by general reviews it's a love it or hate it affair. I personally loved it.


Alternatively in the action JRPG department there is Star Ocean 4, gameplay wise it's pretty fun, but the voice acting...oh it will drive you up the wall, but luckily you have the option to change to Japanese & use subtitles or turn it off all together.




I also did love Lost Odyssey, but out out of the JRPG releases of this generation it does have a bit of a grind to it. But I generally do recommend it.

Le Shorte
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Posted: 16th Dec 2013 04:53
Star Ocean has always looked cool to me, as well as Lost Odyssey. I remember hearing about Nier and wanting to pick it up.

And I do have FF8 on my wishlist on Steam, so I'll pick it up at sometime in the near future (hopefully Christmas Sale).
Quote: " it's the only FF game where the monster levels are based on your own"

I'm not opposed to having to work to beat certain areas, but it's more "Well, to progress the main story, you have to kill generic mobs for about 6 hours. Have fun." that really turns me off to the genre. Like I said, Baldur's Gate is amazing, and so is The Witcher, both very very punishing. But all the grinding makes sense to me.

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Seditious
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Posted: 16th Dec 2013 23:51
Odd, for some reason after someone mentioned the game 'Nier' on here it's been showing up as a suggested video on YouTube even though I hadn't done any googling for it or anything. Stop spying on me Google!
Phaelax
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Posted: 17th Dec 2013 04:45
I missed the "Final" part in the title and thought to myself, why on earth would Steam start a fantasy football game?

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