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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Gripes

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captain caveman
10
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Joined: 9th Dec 2013
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Posted: 15th Dec 2013 23:00
It's ridiculous how long you have to wait for a thread to be posted as a new user, I recently edited one of my posts and now it doesn't display anything.
The Next
Web Engineer
16
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Joined: 3rd Dec 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 15th Dec 2013 23:02 Edited at: 15th Dec 2013 23:17
Why? It is there to stop posts that are not suitable or pointless. The mods are volunteers and have lives so are not online all the time, just wait.

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captain caveman
10
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Posted: 16th Dec 2013 17:33
Quote: "Why? It is there to stop posts that are not suitable or pointless. The mods are volunteers and have lives so are not online all the time, just wait"


How bad could it be to just let people express themselves without moderation. People would have the ability to debate anything that's said???

And why are Avatars so small? It's absurd!
Thraxas
Retired Moderator
18
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Joined: 8th Feb 2006
Location: The Avenging Axe, Turai
Posted: 16th Dec 2013 21:42
Pretty bad actually. The forums for a while were a bit of a horrible place to be, that was many, many years ago now and that was with new user post moderation.

Sometimes you have to wait a while for your post to be approved. It's not the end of the world to wait and moderation doesn't last that long if you're posting normally and frequently. Do you also notice how every other post is NOT spam bots? To me it means it's a nice place to visit.

I've heard the avatars are too small thing brought up before. Do you mean their dimensions or the size of the file itself? Personally I think the dimensions are fine, why do people need giant avatars?

The Next
Web Engineer
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Joined: 3rd Dec 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 16th Dec 2013 21:45
Thraxas said it perfectly.

The avatars are fine for this theme and will be changing soon anyway with the new forum updates. You must realise how old these forums are, things are the way they are for a reason, they are tried and tested and work well which is the opinion of most of the community.

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Libervurto
17
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Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 16th Dec 2013 22:12
Post moderation is only the first, what, ten posts?

Quote: "How bad could it be to just let people express themselves without moderation."

How many people have to die?


Formerly OBese87.
The Next
Web Engineer
16
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Joined: 3rd Dec 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 16th Dec 2013 22:43
Post moderation is first 3 or 5 I can't remember but it is one of those.

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The Zoq2
14
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Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 16th Dec 2013 23:03
The amount of bot-spam filtered out must be insane considering how much actually gets through (or maybe the mods are just doing a bad job ). The only problem with the moderation IMO is when someone on moderation edits their post and it does not show up at all, perhaps keeping the original message and something saying "user has edited the post and is waiting for it to be aproved" would help with that.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Quik
15
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Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 16th Dec 2013 23:07
Quote: "And why are Avatars so small? It's absurd!"


I sincerely do not agree. Avatar size is fine as it is and there's no need to make them any bigger. Any bigger and they'll turn into annoyance.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
19
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 16th Dec 2013 23:15 Edited at: 16th Dec 2013 23:18
I would say avatar sizes are the size they are because this forum was designed during a time when typical users didn't have ultra high-resolutions, nor did everybody have fast broadband...or even broadband - there was a time in the early 00's when some unfortunate souls who still had dial-up. It's not been considered an issue before, probably why it's not really on the to-do list of forum improvements - really this forum hasn't undergone that many changes since it was originally designed. I joined these forums running a 1024x768 display, which looked significantly bigger compared to my now 1920 x 1080 display now.


And with post moderation, as already said, once upon a time this wasn't a friendly place. Mods use it as a filter and it works out. It's also a means of dealing with rule breakers as they can be put back on post moderation. It allows them to make sure a person is posting as they should be. Of course, it's only a temporary thing - you play nice and it will never be a problem.

Seriously I remember how these forums used to be. Seriously, we lack the drama we once read - I like to think mods get it easy these days, lazy gits. Either way, what they're doing works and it keeps the majority of the forum happy. At the cost of a minor inconvenience, I can't really argue against it.

The Next
Web Engineer
16
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Joined: 3rd Dec 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 16th Dec 2013 23:17
Quote: "perhaps keeping the original message and something saying "user has edited the post and is waiting for it to be aproved" would help with that."


You been looking at my dev code?

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Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 04:48
New users are on moderation for the simple fact of preventing spam. Once the mods know you're not a bot, competing company, or a complete psycho nut case, you'll be taken off moderation. Or so I assume, as I am not a mod..... despite my 10 years of loyalty

Seditious
10
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Joined: 2nd Aug 2013
Location: France
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 05:06
I only really like the seedless kind.
mr Handy
16
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Joined: 7th Sep 2007
Location: out of TGC
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 09:22
Also premoderation not only for the new users, tee hee.

There is a problem (which will be fixed when forum upgrade I guess) when user on premoderation writes in a thread and several users writes after him, his post obviously 1) will be unhighlighted as new 2) will be lost therefore ignored.

BatVink
Moderator
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 16:05
About 20% of moderated posts are spam. If you want spam to go unmoderated it will rise to around 80%. It's like killing a wasp...unmoderated spam attracts more spam as the bots sniff out a vulnerable forum.

MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
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Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 16:08
Quote: "unmoderated spam attracts more spam as the bots
sniff
out a vulnerable forum."


I was not going to post anything but then that came up...

This forum must smell of Sea Salt & Malt Vinegar! yum!

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 16:43
Is it bad that when I first joined I didn't even really notice that I was on moderation?


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Van B
Moderator
21
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 16:56
Hehe I'm not sure if that's good or bad Yodaman - I'm gonna go with it being a good thing... best to just get on with it and not worry about post moderation unless a mod puts you on it - everyone has to go through it and it's barely even a thing after a half-dozen posts.

I am the one who knocks...
wizard of id
18
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Joined: 16th Jan 2006
Location: Sunny South Africa
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 17:11 Edited at: 17th Dec 2013 17:13
whoops erm never mind I see I don't even know my own forum :p
The Zoq2
14
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Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 17:16
Quote: "Only thing I would love to see is a PM system :p I would bribe the forum admin, but I only have mountain dew and lays to bribe with "


A messaging system was implemented as the first change to the forums (the thread is probably still stickied)

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
wizard of id
18
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Joined: 16th Jan 2006
Location: Sunny South Africa
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 17:18
yeah unfortunately I don't visit this scary area of the forum often enough
captain caveman
10
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Joined: 9th Dec 2013
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Posted: 17th Dec 2013 17:25
This over moderation is absurd, if somebody is found to be a spam bot you could just ban them and what would be so wrong about people expressing themselves freely?

Avatars should have the capacity to be bigger, if you like the dimensions as they are you could just keep it that way.
KeithC
Senior Moderator
18
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 18:00
Captain,

The problem with simply allowing people to post unmoderated (new users and those on post approval), is that any and all sorts of things that violate the AUP (links to pirated material, porn, violent content, etc.) could be posted and viewable by all (including children who frequent here); without moderation in a timely manner. Moderators don't spend 24/7 here, and it would be very hard to track down any new spam by checking every thread on every board. It's just not feasible.

I understand your frustration with the initial moderation of new members, but we've found it neccessary over the years. Even though you find it "absurd", it will not change. It is what it is. Posts are generally approved in short order, as we have Moderators from all areas of the globe (multiple time zones). Avatars and signatures are the sizes they are for a reason as well. Frankly; most people are more concerned with the content of any given thread, rather than the size of their Avatar.

As far as people expressing themselves freely; that's a non-starter. Through years of experience here, it's never been a good idea; though we allow a certain leaway for most things...depending on the context and how the conversations go. That will not change either. When you signed up to these Forums, you agreed to the listed AUP.

Your disapproval is noted. Perhaps it's time to move on to other conversations?

-Keith

Seppuku Arts
Moderator
19
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 18:04
Quote: "This over moderation is absurd, if somebody is found to be a spam bot you could just ban them and what would be so wrong about people expressing themselves freely?"


We do speak quite freely. Granted there's rules to live by, but in just about any respectable online community it's the same, otherwise you just get anarchy, which is extremely unpleasant. The reason I've been an active member for so long is because this forum is such a comfortable place where I can speak freely - granted I can't swear like a sailor as I do in real life, but in recent years I've been very comfortable (as the forums no longer have the 'problem' members it once used to). Also, you seem to be speaking quite freely yourself, nobody's tried stopping you from voicing an opinion despite clearly disagreeing.

You essentially get your first few posts monitored before they are posted. That's it. It's a minor inconvenience. Some forums have other methods - some will let you post, but not create threads for that 'initial' period. Essentially it clears a lot of spam, seriously, websites that attract a lot of traffic are susceptible to a LOT of spam. Even websites I've owned in the past that have been small scale have been subject to spam bots and have had to put measures into place to filter them.

You'd find the same with your emails if you suddenly made your email address extremely public, a number of spam bots will get it and to send emails direct your account and if you're unfortunate that can be a LOT of spam (if your email address was as well known as this site, I suspect you'd get a LOT) so email accounts get a spam filter, a minority get through. Imagine the task of laboriously going through each spam mail individually to delete them and to block the email addresses from your account? These guys are volunteers giving up their free time to moderate a forum, so it would be unreasonable to expect them to not have a filter, even then it would still have a negative impact on the rest of us.

For the minor temporary inconvenience, I think it's worth it. The post moderation really doesn't take long to go away. If you respect forum rules, you'll find you'll never have to go on it again.

Van B
Moderator
21
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 18:59
The new user post moderation was brought in to stop trolls pretty much, and it has - most people won't remember some of the stuff that hit the forum, gah... still have flashbacks to this one picture that made me want to be a mod. Suffice to say the forum is about as clean as you can get, and it'll stay that way into the new forum as well.

I am the one who knocks...
Libervurto
17
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Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 19:18
Quote: "Avatars should have the capacity to be bigger, if you like the dimensions as they are you could just keep it that way. "

Can someone explain to me how bigger avatars would benefit the forum?
Avatars are a way of identifying people at a glance, the current size is comfortably sufficient for that.


Formerly OBese87.
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
19
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 20:30
Quote: "The new user post moderation was brought in to stop trolls pretty much, and it has - most people won't remember some of the stuff that hit the forum, gah... still have flashbacks to this one picture that made me want to be a mod. Suffice to say the forum is about as clean as you can get, and it'll stay that way into the new forum as well.
"


I have nothing but memories of fondness! Some of it was worth a few laughs.

captain caveman
10
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Joined: 9th Dec 2013
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Posted: 17th Dec 2013 20:34
Quote: "Can someone explain to me how bigger avatars would benefit the forum?
Avatars are a way of identifying people at a glance, the current size is comfortably sufficient for that."


What if you were an elderly person who has blurry vision? you could barely make out who was posting!

Quote: "is that any and all sorts of things that violate the AUP (links to pirated material, porn, violent content, etc.) could be posted and viewable by all (including children who frequent here); "


Well children should be desensitised to abhorrent material so they grow up well balanced, you don't want kids turning out like Mormons and Amish people.

And remember pornography is art which could easily take a digital format using blender or something...
The Next
Web Engineer
16
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 20:53 Edited at: 17th Dec 2013 20:55
Quote: "What if you were an elderly person who has blurry vision? you could barely make out who was posting!"


Well then I would expect you to be using browser zoom until comfortable.

Quote: "And remember pornography is art which could easily take a digital format using blender or something..."


And posting it in this form would also be against the AUP and will a ban-able offence.

It is illegal in most countries to view adult content until 18 and we are upholding those laws by providing a safe forum for young users, which a large percentage of our users are.

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Seditious
10
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Joined: 2nd Aug 2013
Location: France
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 21:02 Edited at: 17th Dec 2013 21:02
I'd prefer the avatars to stay the size they are now. I don't understand forums that let people have them at a size of 600x400 with gigantic signatures that take up half the page. I don't visit forums to look at avatars and sigs.

Quote: "still have flashbacks to this one picture that made me want to be a mod"


I posted a picture of a dead horse recently. People freaked out as if they'd never eaten horse before.
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
19
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 21:22 Edited at: 17th Dec 2013 21:25
Quote: "It is illegal in most countries to view adult content until 18 and we are upholding those laws by providing a safe forum for young users, which a large percentage of our users are."


For example, Iran, I'm pretty sure it's illegal there full stop. At least, I remember reading about a guy who was charged for programming an uploader applet that ended up being used by a pornography site.

Besides, isn't it up to the parents to decide how their kid is raised? This is an international community of people of varying ages and disciplines, I suspect we've even had Mormons. It's a very inclusive community.

If a person wishes to post explicit content, for a large number of things, they are able to post a warning first. At least, it's what I do and in the 9 years I've been here I've only been moderated once and that was for calling mods a very naughty word, in jest, but given the context, it was extremely unwise of me.


If this is such a problem, there are other communities on the internet that might suit your preferences. I don't like to chase people away, but given the number of complaints, you're making it sound like this place doesn't suit your needs.

BatVink
Moderator
21
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 21:41
Quote: "Well children should be desensitised to abhorrent material so they grow up well balanced, you don't want kids turning out like Mormons and Amish people.

And remember pornography is art which could easily take a digital format using blender or something..."


...and there is the perfect illustration of why we use moderation

You've expressed that being Mormon or Amish is unacceptable, which is against the AUP just a week ago.

You think that porn is acceptable on a family-oriented site, and that committing illegal offences constitutes being well balanced.

I'm sure there are other sites like Seppuku says that will satisfy your needs. But while you're here, stick to the rules rather than try to justify why they are wrong.

The Next
Web Engineer
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Joined: 3rd Dec 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 17th Dec 2013 21:44
Locked the rules of the forum are not up for debate enough has been said on this matter, if you don't like it don't post

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