Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

AppGameKit Classic Chat / PS4 and Xbox one - A perfect choice for AGK - My reasonings

Author
Message
DavidAGK
AGK Developer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2014
Location:
Posted: 3rd Jan 2014 22:33
Link
I run a business myself so instantly recognise as I type the title to this thread that it's very easy for users to ask for more and at the same time a lot of work for developers to actually produce what is requested. I also recognise that I don't have as much knowledge of the industry as the developers do, but I still believe it's worth putting ideas forward as each perspective on a situation tends to hold some value, if only to spark other ideas. So here goes...

I think the PS4 and Xbox One are perfect platforms for AppGameKit to target because...

1. The PS4/Xboxone are right at the beginning of their lifecycles and both have huge financial backing. I'd be amazed if they don't have at least 7 productive years ahead of them, a period of time that would be hard to match in any other similar technology arena. This gives the AppGameKit creators and us AppGameKit developers a reliable platform to develop for.

2. Although AppGameKit has clearly been developed with varying device hardware in mind, the PS4/Xboxone offer a solid advantage of a 'golden standard'. Neither the PS4 nor Xboxone will change hardware in their lifetime, giving the AppGameKit creators and us developers a known and unchanging platform to develop for. My early games development on the Amiga and my rekindled interest in creating games again reminds me that I love creating games but I'm not so interested in the hardware aspect. With a standard platform to develop for, I can concentrate purely on the game and making it shine on a defined set of hardware parameters.

3. The PS4/Xboxone consoles are built for gaming. They both have fantastic controllers that far exceed touch screen devices. What better device to program games for than a dedicated games machine?

4. Mobile devices seem to have set an unrealistically low pricing structure in people's minds - 99p for a game?!?! The new consoles have AAA titles going for £55 and small games going for £4-10, a much better price point for smaller Indie games. I think the console crowd are just more prepared to pay a few pounds because they buy with a view to actually playing the game for a reasonable time at home rather than few minutes on the train home.

5. Both MS and Sony, particularly Sony, are actively trying to get Indie developers to build games for their platforms and so are likely to offer good support.

Lastly, and coming back to my opening paragraph, both the PS4 and Xboxone are, as far as I understand, architecturally very similar to PCs which might reduce AGK's ongoing development time.

I know it would be yet another couple of platforms to develop for, but I can't help but think that they could well be the best to develop for so at the very least need serious consideration.

Happy New Year everyone.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
JimHawkins
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Jul 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 4th Jan 2014 11:01
Link
Nice idea - but I don't think it's going to happen.

XBoxOne is DirectX 11.2 only with no OpenGL.

PS4 runs on a modified FreeBSD Unix OS with its own graphics etc interface SDK.

I don't think TGC have the resources to handle all this, currently. The closest might be FPSC, which does not have to be cross-platform.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
Back to top
Profile PM Website
pprem
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Jun 2012
Location: Paris, France
Posted: 4th Jan 2014 12:07
Link
It would be great but AGK2 has its (great) roadmap, we have to wait it's done before more platforms

--
Patrick P.
http://www.gamolf.fr
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 4th Jan 2014 12:16
Link
Support for One and PS4 simply is not feasible at this time. No matter how much I would love this, AGK2 has to happen before any additional platforms are added.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
The Daddy
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Jan 2009
Location: Essex
Posted: 4th Jan 2014 13:44
Link
I agree with Jim! It is a crying shame as both consoles, for the first time are really glorified PC's.

As for getting AppGameKit apps working on them, it is totally possible, but possibility and reality are often at opposite end of the sinclair 48k!

Its a shame because AppGameKit has huge potential which is not reached because of such a small team. We are on V2 and there should be by now bullet proof one click deployment (miles away) and bug free platforms (basic platform still has bugs and C++ is not perfect either).

My feelings are that FPSC Reloaded is being put forward to Steam because is probably works more or less (after all its x years old). I would imagine AppGameKit v2 will not be accepted onto any of these platforms because it is too far from be workable software commercially.

Shame really, with a good focus, a slightly larger team it could be great........but....

www.bitmanip.com
All the juicy you could ever dream of!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Markus
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Apr 2004
Location: Germany
Posted: 4th Jan 2014 14:36
Link
i think for this consoles agk can not reach the full potential
with the code once concept and state we have yet.
and 2. ms and sony will have a good sdk and its a miracle if they are cost free. in the past ms had a good concept for demo/full version and shop system, multiplayer with windows live and many rules before you can sell your own app there but i liked
it because you reach a good quality level.
disadvantage today, i can't use my own game because drm,
i paid only one year for a developer contract.
no contract = no full features for developing.

if someone is a indie developer for XBoxOne or PS4
with permission to use the shop system i like
to read some news of it, what it costs or how much % the shop kept.

AGK 108 B19 : Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit : AMD Radeon HD 6670
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 4th Jan 2014 15:08 Edited at: 4th Jan 2014 15:12
Link
As far as I know getting a dev system is quite easy. Bax got one for Wii U, I think there's some application to fill in to get one. Sony loves indies and if you got something to show them it's not so hard to get a dev unit from what I've heard. MS plan is that you can turn any XONE into a dev unit, for now getting one is supposedly not impossible for indies. MS have a bad rep for dealing with indies in the past. AFAIK you don't have to pay anything to develop for the new consoles. Because of this I might switch to Unity for my next project, depending on where AppGameKit is heading. It would be annoying to make the switch since I know AppGameKit quite well, so I rather not.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
DavidAGK
AGK Developer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2014
Location:
Posted: 4th Jan 2014 21:35
Link
I agree that AppGameKit v2 has to be done prior to any further platform development - far better that products are completed than ever grander plans exist but only as vapourware.

As pointed out, AppGameKit, like all smaller companies, has limited resources so my feeling is that they need to concentrate on a single product (AGK V2) and get that to some solid platforms.

I guess my gut feeling is that things like FPSC are less likely to be long term winners as it's an area that is so utterly crowded by very very large companies that produce jaw dropping FPS games ( I play battlefield 4 and despite its bugs my jaw drops every time I play it - I look around at the stunning achievement and then get shot because I've stopped concentrating on the game!). Small indie companies cannot hope to compete in this area. What indies do have is complete creative freedom, from which flows some fantastically entertaining games. AppGameKit in just 2D, I think, offers a really good set of tools to produce these types of games and with limited resources is probably where the AppGameKit developers should focus their efforts.

Anyhow - I'm probably out of my area of expertise now...and maybe it's just me wishing for what I want most.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Seditious
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Aug 2013
Location: France
Posted: 5th Jan 2014 15:37
Link
It would be awesome but I can't see it for a number of reasons. You'd need a dev kit, and then you'd need to get a licence to sell the software.

Apart from which, doesn't TGC only have a single programmer? And he's currently working on FPSC-R, so I think it'll be a long time before V2 is even looked at again.
Back to top
Profile PM
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 5th Jan 2014 17:12 Edited at: 5th Jan 2014 17:13
Link
Quote: "You'd need a dev kit, and then you'd need to get a licence to sell the software."

See my previous post.

Quote: "doesn't TGC only have a single programmer? And he's currently working on FPSC-R"

They have 2 programmers. Lee is working on FPSCR and Paul is working on AGK2.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Seditious
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Aug 2013
Location: France
Posted: 5th Jan 2014 17:36
Link
Quote: "See my previous post."


My bad, missed that post. That certainly sounds promising.
Back to top
Profile PM
DavidAGK
AGK Developer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2014
Location:
Posted: 8th Jan 2014 17:01
Link
Just seen...4.2 Million PS4 consoles sold so far and 3 Million Xboxone consoles too. Pretty impressive figures given they've only been out a couple of months. Especially impressive is the PS4 as it's clearly sold as a games console rather than multimedia hub. Sony also saying 9.7 million games sold on PS4 to date.

So if ever AppGameKit does ever manage to get a compiler for the new gen consoles, there will be an instant market for games.

Anyhow...back on with my map editor...
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 8th Jan 2014 20:17
Link
DavidAGK:
I think both consoles are sold out. XBO is only available in 13 countries and I suspect it's because a lack of supplies. I want a PS4 just because it is a gaming box and that's how a lot of people think. We will really only see the result of this "war" once there is enough consoles to cover demand.

A little more than 2 games per unit sold is hardly impressive though. I wonder if they also count games given for free, due to Playstation Plus. Which all get a free month of anyway.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 8th Jan 2014 22:42
Link
I think Linux, Steam support and then Steam Machines is a lot more likely though. Releasing games on PC pretty much needs to be on Steam these days so if there's anything I want after V2, or even sooner it's Steam support for Tier 1. And after that I want Linux. I think that should be of interest to all indie devs.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
DavidAGK
AGK Developer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2014
Location:
Posted: 9th Jan 2014 14:39
Link
I've not looked into steam properly but it does look like a very solid candidate for AGK. I'd rather develop for a PC or games console where people have access to good controllers rather than touch screen devices, so Steam seems like a good candidate.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
The Zoq2
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 9th Jan 2014 16:32
Link
I would love to see a linux version of AppGameKit, if It was avalible, I would almost have no use for windows anymore

As for PS4 and Xbone support I don't have a need for it personally but im sure it's a great market to get into.

I dont think any of those will happen before V2 is finished which might take a year or so thogh.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Back to top
Profile PM Email
DavidAGK
AGK Developer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2014
Location:
Posted: 2nd May 2014 18:00
Link
At the beginning of March this year, 6 Million PS4s sold.... 6 Million dedicated games machines owned by people who don't expect games for free!

Really hope, at the very least, TGC haven't ruled it out as a target, especially with Sony's approach to indie developers.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 2nd May 2014 18:06
Link
I hope that's coming to AppGameKit in the future. And I think it should be a paid for update. There's a lot of indie games on PS4. however, TGC has to stick to the plans in the Kickstarter. And I would guess that Linux and Steam OS would be more likely platforms to start width. AppGameKit also needs Steam support.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
IronGiant
AGK Bronze Backer
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2012
Location: the great state of madness
Posted: 2nd May 2014 18:21
Link
I do believe that Game Maker Pro is going to support PS4 in the future.

Would not be surprised to see Monkey head that way if Mark can sell any copies.

I think most people use the free version of Monkey X. So that's debatable.

I see no reason why AppGameKit , if the powers that be wanted it too , could not support either the XBOX 1 or PS4. but you'd still need either machine for testing I'm sure. And yes, would be financially sound to charge extra for it a PS4 or Xbox version.

It's Bird! , It's Plane!, No its a rocket powered Squirrel holding some acorns and a smile!
Back to top
Profile PM
DavidAGK
AGK Developer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2014
Location:
Posted: 2nd May 2014 18:59
Link
Agree - a PS4 target should be chargeable. If you're serious enough to target PS4 I think you'd be able to find at least £100's rather than £10s
Back to top
Profile PM Website
micky4fun
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Sep 2013
Location: uk essex
Posted: 3rd May 2014 07:40 Edited at: 3rd May 2014 07:41
Link
Hi All

Lets hope AppGameKit v2 gets finished first with all the features promised in the kickstarter ad , then maybe sprout out , rather than going all over the place with loads of loose ends

program rocks by the way , even with some of the bugs

mick
Back to top
Profile PM
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 3rd May 2014 11:25
Link
Now that development is back on track with AppGameKit v2 and Paul is working on it full time. I am happy. I don't care about 3D at all. None of the projects I'm thinking of uses 3D. But at least when it's done it's done (well, there will always be bugs). We also need a lot of bugs fixed for excising commands and features. All that combined would mean a very solid foundation for AGK.

Looking at AppGameKit from an indie perspective. Being able to get a potentially good game out to Steam is very important today. Linux support should be easier to implement and also easy for us users. Linux is important for the independent market and getting your game on Humble Bundle and Steam Box. And of course what most indie devs want is then PS4 and PS Vita support. Which shouldn't be impossible any more, not like in the old days.

I would not mind paying extra for Steam specific commands or PS4/PS Vita support. Getting on these platforms aren't as easy as all the self publish ones. But if you do get the chance, wouldn't it be awesome if you could say yes? You would happily pay extra for that, because it's worth it. I think not having the possibility could make potential customers choose a different solution than AGK.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
bjadams
AGK Backer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 4th May 2014 22:46
Link
AGK doesn't even support windows phone yet, so I highly doubt it will support Xbox anytime soon. If it ever will, by that time all other sdks would have been offering Xbox for years, as AppGameKit always seems to be late in the game.

PS4 support... in our dreams.

I think at this point in time AGK2 should offer a STABLE command list on Win Mac ios & Android with no big problems and with updated 3rd party sdks. We're still a long way to go
Back to top
Profile PM Email
DavidAGK
AGK Developer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2014
Location:
Posted: 4th May 2014 23:44
Link
PS4 and Xbox One are so early in their lives that it makes them a great target...just not in 7 years time as you say!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
The Zoq2
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 5th May 2014 00:35
Link
Quote: "AGK doesn't even support windows phone yet, so I highly doubt it will support Xbox anytime soon. If it ever will, by that time all other sdks would have been offering Xbox for years, as AppGameKit always seems to be late in the game.

PS4 support... in our dreams."


Windows phone and xbox doesn't really have much to do with PS4 though since the reason windowsphone isn't implemented is the lack of openGL. I would assume a lot of modifications would be required to make it run on PS4 aswell though.

As others have said, a stable version of AppGameKit running on the current supported platforms will get it a lot further than a buggy version running on "everything"

When AppGameKit V2 is stable enough, I wouldn't mind seeing it on a console, (or linux )

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Poshu
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2009
Location: France
Posted: 5th May 2014 02:53
Link
Most of you don't have the slightest idea of the way consoles business works, right?

A small example : the studio I'm currently working at just got a refusal for a wrong button image (the A button of the Xbox one was still the X button from the Playstation 4 built). This "small" error will cost us about 20k $.

From the development kit to manufacturer validation, If you want to go on console, buy the full unity package and learn C#, it will be the cheapest and easiest thing of the whole process.
Back to top
Profile PM
JohnnyMeek
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Apr 2013
Location: Slovenia
Posted: 5th May 2014 17:12
Link
As much as I enjoy working with AppGameKit, it's more of a hobbyist system. If you're are serious about making games as a business you should use Unity.

Making money with mobile games is all about social networking integration and advertising. Neither of which AppGameKit does very well.
Back to top
Profile PM
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 5th May 2014 18:58
Link
Quote: "you should use Unity."

I prefer using AGK. I don't really like how Unity does things. I could learn it if I had to but I rather not.

Quote: "Making money with mobile games is all about social networking integration and advertising."

Not really. Today it's all about IAP. Whales seems to be the hot topic. I agree with the gaming press that these are the worst kinds of games. But until the users gets tired, this is what will make the most money. There are good IAP based games though.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
bjadams
AGK Backer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 5th May 2014 23:02
Link
At one point in time, we all preferred to use AppGameKit, that's why we are all here.

But I have to agree with JohnnyMeek, AppGameKit is more of a casual/fun/hobbyist thing, when compared to other sdks. We get too few updates, important fixes take forever, and even the Kickstarter is taking more time than expected, so not even the $ injected by the users has done the trick.

I wish TGC keeps on improving AppGameKit, maybe one day....
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 6th May 2014 00:59
Link
Quote: "But I have to agree with JohnnyMeek, AppGameKit is more of a casual/fun/hobbyist thing, when compared to other sdks. We get too few updates, important fixes take forever, and even the Kickstarter is taking more time than expected, so not even the $ injected by the users has done the trick."


This is its biggest flaw. It's currently on the right path. But it could have been so much more, had the focus been solely on AGK. It needs to get past that specific threshold, that top of the mountain. It needs to get strong on what it does, all the way to complete and published games, and then expand. When all these little problems are fixed, things could get interesting.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
bjadams
AGK Backer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 6th May 2014 11:05
Link
^ I have still not lost all my hopes on AGK... I still hope that one day it will be much more flexible and bug-free
Back to top
Profile PM Email
DavidAGK
AGK Developer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2014
Location:
Posted: 6th May 2014 12:39
Link
All focus on ONE product...that's THE KEY here I think. TGC is way too small to be having more than one product.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 6th May 2014 13:00
Link
Quote: " All focus on ONE product...that's THE KEY here I think. TGC is way too small to be having more than one product. "


I agree. But they can't scrap FPSCR. Let's just hope that they stick with 2 and that Paul can keep working on AppGameKit full time.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
bjadams
AGK Backer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 6th May 2014 17:48
Link
i see no problem with Lee working on FPSCR and Paul on AGK. If they work daily on these products and release regular updates and fixes, all users will be happy.

there are other sdks who are a one-man show, and they release a couple of updates every month, and users are very happy and supportive
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 7th May 2014 10:32
Link
In last week's episode of Jimquisition he bashed on the Vita. At the start of this week's episode he mentions that he had been contacted by a Sony rep, who said they are working on bringing indie titles to the platform.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-05-02 15:17:47
Your offset time is: 2024-05-02 15:17:47