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AppGameKit/AppGameKit Studio Showcase / [WIP] Dark (working title)

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 12th Feb 2014 18:04
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Game is looking beautiful, enhanced by how smooth it looks. Great job so far guys.

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Van B
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Posted: 12th Feb 2014 18:49
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Amazing stuff, knew it would look awesome

Spitball...

I think it would look great to have some translucent glass objects that absorb and radiate the light. Like a crystal ball would glow when you hit it with a light source, becoming a light source itself. A fish bowl, lightbulbs, vases, wine bottles etc could look really cool - coloured glass, gems etc with a coloured shadow would look tremendous. It's just an aesthetic thing I know but I'm a 90's dude, cheap coloured glass still looks great to me

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 12th Feb 2014 18:55
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Quote: "I think it would look great to have some translucent glass objects that absorb and radiate the light. Like a crystal ball would glow when you hit it with a light source, becoming a light source itself. A fish bowl, lightbulbs, vases, wine bottles etc could look really cool - coloured glass, gems etc with a coloured shadow would look tremendous. It's just an aesthetic thing I know but I'm a 90's dude, cheap coloured glass still looks great to me "

100% agree to this ^

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baxslash
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Posted: 12th Feb 2014 19:10
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Quote: "I think it would look great to have some translucent glass objects that absorb and radiate the light. Like a crystal ball would glow when you hit it with a light source, becoming a light source itself."

That's pretty much what the light cell is supposed to be doing in the video. Maybe I'm not showing it right but the idea is that you charge the cells up with light so they can power mechanical items via powercables...

I like the idea of having translucent shadows, that would be sweet! I'll definitely try to incorporate these ideas.

oct(31) = dec(25)
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baxslash
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Posted: 12th Feb 2014 19:55 Edited at: 12th Feb 2014 20:02
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Ok, so looking at the image for the light cell it's not transparent where it should be so I've changed that and here's an example:


EDIT: By the way my colleague has been teasing me with some sound effects and music today. I am very excited by the style which although more electronic than I originally had in mind could actually give this game a really fresh audio style because it is unexpected. What I like about it is it fits really well with the background story and lends a "disjointed logic" to the game. I hope that makes sense, I'm on the Belgian Beer tonight

oct(31) = dec(25)

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Van B
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Posted: 12th Feb 2014 22:23
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Yeah, I was thinking that's how it works, making the gadget glow - really though, I was thinking that it might be purely aesthetic sometimes, like if it's easy to swap out the shadow image with one that doesn't get re-coloured to black - it's damn handy to just recolour and alpha fade, but having a glass reflection looking as good as it can would need Greenlig's skills.

I guess I'm imagining something like this: http://www.chinakingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Light-green-glass-beads.jpg

The bright reflection and dark shadow around that, tricky but would be very pretty.

Also... DISCO BALL! - You have to!, with dozens of coloured light beams bouncing off it when you shine it up

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baxslash
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Posted: 12th Feb 2014 22:48
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Wow, well something like proper glass reflection and caustic refraction would be great but you really are testing my skills there vanb!!! But you know I like a challenge.......

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greenlig
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Posted: 13th Feb 2014 03:12
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I am really liking all these ideas, VanB. I have a few similar ones, such as bio-luminescent plants (mushrooms, fungi, etc). In the end, the gameplay is a lot about how you can manipulate light, not just with the beam, but also with elements around you. Glowing things will definitely be a part of that. I have a really good idea for save rooms

In terms of the refracted light, a challenge for sure! Something I'd love to work out is blended sprites, so we can do more than just mix. Additive would be fantastic, and really bring the lighting to life.

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baxslash
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Posted: 13th Feb 2014 08:53
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We could move this project over to AppGameKit V2 and test it but last time I did that there was a crash that I wasn't getting in V1. We could also move over to Spine characters for a speed increase but we would loose some of my animation blending. It would be quite a big change so maybe best done early if we are going to do it. I'm not sure how much control we would have over individual limbs in Spine either as I need to set the colour of character sprites.

If we don't use Spine and just move over for blending then it might be a simple quick test... I did some tests of additive blending in V2 and it could make quite a difference to the look of the game.

oct(31) = dec(25)
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xCept
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Posted: 13th Feb 2014 19:31 Edited at: 13th Feb 2014 19:36
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Blend modes could be really interesting here. Realistically though, I suspect AppGameKit V2 won't be stable for many months yet--and that's not considering support for iOS/Android/Mac. So it might be a gamble to convert over to V2 now plus you lose the ability to test on any other platform.

When you look at the AppGameKit V2 Kickstarter delivery estimates, then see what has actually been complete (not even all the basic 2D enhancements), it's pretty disheartening. I still wish Paul had a running blog / daily change log as Lee does with FPSC:R so we wouldn't be left in the Dark.

Quote: "2D Enhancements - October 2013
Ouya & Spine support - End of October 2013
IDE & Compiler update - December 2013
3D - Jan 2014
Physics - Feb 2014"
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baxslash
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Posted: 13th Feb 2014 22:32 Edited at: 13th Feb 2014 22:32
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You might be right about V2. We'll have to wait & see...

In the meantime I have made a massive but subtle leap in how shadow strength is calculated. Previously shadows were given a strength based on how many lights were in the scene and how far they were from the nearest light. That might sound reasonable enough but I have been desperate to improve it because I knew that shadow strength needed to be based on a factor of distance from every light in range, not just every light in the scene. Fortunately I have come up with this calculation with no noticeable impact on speed although I still have to add further optimisation for larger levels.

The visual effect is barely noticeable from a single image (but I've added a screen anyway) but the difference in-game is fantastic (if you are looking for it!). Every little detail like this is making this game better.



When I next have time I'll be adding powered objects like motors, lifts etc.

oct(31) = dec(25)

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baxslash
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Posted: 14th Feb 2014 15:27 Edited at: 14th Feb 2014 15:27
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Got a long way into adding power cables in last night and lunchtime today Just need to add lighting and shadows to the cables and connect them to powered items like these (temp gfx) motorised "cogs" shown here. Cables are drawn on the fly in the editor using my Bezier commands. Once I have them connected up I'll upload a new video!



oct(31) = dec(25)

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 14th Feb 2014 17:46
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It is good to see some of your latest development work Baxslash, and the art style produces a great atmosphere.

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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Feb 2014 12:16 Edited at: 17th Feb 2014 16:42
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New video of mechanical object being powered by a cell:


EDIT: Also edited cables. They are now made of strings of lit objects which also have an animated glow effect when powered. The light moves along the cable toward the powered object:


oct(31) = dec(25)

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 17th Feb 2014 17:37
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Amazing! It looks crazy good! I'm anxious to see what kind of puzzles you'll come up with for this game.

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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Feb 2014 17:42
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Just working towards a couple for the proof of concept at this stage. I guess it will depend on how carried away we get. Problem is that just for adding cables (for example) I've got to make them dynamically editable too so that if a connected object is moved its cable is rebuilt afterwards and there is some kind of representation on screen that the connection has not been lost... because I'm starting with a hefty editor it makes building the first level very late in development but it will make building levels MUCH easier (and more fun) later.

oct(31) = dec(25)
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Van B
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Posted: 17th Feb 2014 19:46
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Looks tremendous Baxslash. I think your dead right about the editor - it's always a case of spending time on that and saving a lot more time later... editing levels can take so fricken long!

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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Feb 2014 20:27
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Loosing a lot more fps than expected on the cables... Needs optimising

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Van B
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Posted: 17th Feb 2014 20:59 Edited at: 17th Feb 2014 21:01
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Spitball...

Why not try using a text object

Like, make a font with the light segments and step through a repeating string pattern for the blinking/moving effect. And rotate and offset each text character after setting the text, to follow the path of the line.

* Means the cable can be practically any length you need, it could grow or shrink easily, and you'd only be using 1 text object for the whole cable.

* Maybe you could restrict the distance between characters, have the text act like rope - but damn that could eat a lot of performance despite how awesome it would look. Plugs could dangle down and sway about, be picked up by the player.

* It would be faster than sprites - really I made a little example of using text objects for a platform game, and it's blindingly fast... 8 layers of alpha transparent tiles, or 12000 tiles controlled by just 8 text objects. I can't imagine that 12000 sprites would be as fast as it is (I mean, the depth sorting alone for that many sprites is probably a factor) - text is rendered with a single draw call so it's more optimized, I'm sure of it. For a tile map at least I'm sold, but the benefits certainly stretch to things that need to stretch... like cables.

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 17th Feb 2014 22:33
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Looks sweet bax
A lot of great shader work here as I seam to have missed a lot of agk updates?

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baxslash
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Posted: 18th Feb 2014 09:13
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Thanks for the ideas VanB, I have an idea using no images actually

No shaders here Cliff, it's all just sprites...

oct(31) = dec(25)
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kamac
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2014 17:00 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2014 17:04
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Wow. Rad. I logged in just to post this.

Really, incredible. Both art and code. I'm surprised how you managed to "fake" those shadows with mere sprites. Keep going, it's gonna be a financial success if you manage to pull it off, so I feel.

What platform(s) do you aim for? Mobiles or desktops? Perhaps both?

Whatever the case, keep it up.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2014 17:43
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This game looks more and more awesome

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baxslash
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2014 20:59
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Thanks guys

We're only aiming at desktop to start because it is likely not to run well on most mobile devices but who knows, with a little creative thinking and some heavy optimisation I might be able to keep 60fps on tablets at least...

Just need to get past a couple of annoying bugs and then I will be getting enough mechanical objects added to make an interesting test level or two. I also need to add our first 'enemy' encountered in the game. I need to talk to my colleague who's interested in creating the sound fx and music to start adding a little atmosphere.

oct(31) = dec(25)
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nz0
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Posted: 24th Feb 2014 17:25
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As always, looks really good. Hope you get to finish this one!
I really like the innovation you are employing here which definitely gives this something special.

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nz0
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Posted: 24th Feb 2014 17:28
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@Van B - that text object idea sounds interesting.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 20th Mar 2014 12:40
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Wow, this project looks simply incredible! Best use of AppGameKit I've seen by far! I absolutely agree that this will be a great success!



Definitely be following this!

Btw, in case you hadn't noticed, I have my own bezier curve library now. I seriously doubt that it will help, but if your curves are slowing you down (that is not as weird as it sounds), it may be worth trying my code. I won't be offended if you don't, though


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greenlig
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Posted: 21st Mar 2014 05:09
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Thanks for the kind words and offer, Clonkex! Didn't realise you were from NSW!

On the project side, Bax and I have both been busy with other life things over the last month, so progress has slowed. That said, I have started concepting a cool little room thing that will be doable within the current engine, and show off some of the lighting stuff. Hopefully I can get some time in the coming weeks to put it together!

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baxslash
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Posted: 21st Mar 2014 13:54
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Yes, thanks for the offer Clonkex, unfortunately that's not causing the issue. The issue I was having was in drawing so many objects to light the cables the way I wanted. I have made improvements since then and also have a few other ideas on how the system can work. Creating the curves themselves is relatively simple.

I will certainly keep a copy of your code and have plans to use it for one or two tests at some point as I have some other ideas for future development.

It would be great to get some more work done on this project but I can barely spare the time to write this quick note at the moment... doing my best to make a good impression in my new job which has a lot of promise for the future. If all goes well over the next few months I could be happy for quite some time in this role. Also it's C# programming which I absolutely love

Strangely I haven't had even a reply from Paul regarding the array issue I am having which is putting me off working on this project at the moment. I even started working on animating the character in the latest version of Unity which was actually pretty easy and tempting to move over to. If I wasn't so far down the road in AppGameKit I'd probably have moved to Unity already although I may still do so if the current problems in AppGameKit don't get sorted out in the near future. It's very frustrating.
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Clonkex
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Posted: 21st Mar 2014 15:08
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Quote: "Didn't realise you were from NSW!"


Didn't realise you were from Vic! Nice to see people from your own country

Quote: "On the project side, Bax and I have both been busy with other life things over the last month, so progress has slowed."


Ah, the pressure of life

Quote: "The issue I was having was in drawing so many objects to light the cables the way I wanted. I have made improvements since then and also have a few other ideas on how the system can work."


I see. No worries then

Quote: "Also it's C# programming which I absolutely love"


I'd take C++ over C# any day!

Quote: "Strangely I haven't had even a reply from Paul regarding the array issue I am having which is putting me off working on this project at the moment."


Unfortunately Paul doesn't seem to be very communicative He only replies where absolutely necessary and doesn't show any emotion...no judgement, just observation.

AGK arrays are somewhat bugged. Not if you use them correctly, at least not in my experience, but no errors are thrown for accessing using a 1-based index in a 0-based array


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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 21st Mar 2014 18:03
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Quote: "Strangely I haven't had even a reply from Paul regarding the array issue I am having which is putting me off working on this project at the moment."


If you can manage a small example code that demonstrates your bug I am sure he can take a look. That's how I do it. Small code snippets that runs by themselves (without any media or additional code) that does nothing else but show the bug. Nothing is as effective as 10 lines of code that doesn't work. Makes Paul's job much easier.

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baxslash
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2014 11:40
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Quote: "If you can manage a small example code that demonstrates your bug I am sure he can take a look. That's how I do it. Small code snippets that runs by themselves (without any media or additional code) that does nothing else but show the bug. Nothing is as effective as 10 lines of code that doesn't work. Makes Paul's job much easier."

I did.
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Paronamixxe
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Posted: 12th Apr 2014 00:49
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a little late maybe... HOLY COW! Looks, simply put, amazing! Will definitely be following this!

cheers

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Ched80
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Posted: 12th Apr 2014 11:29
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@Paronamixxe I think you mean "Holey Cow"

(apologies for the blatant abuse of your thread bax)

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Paronamixxe
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HAHAHAHA... I should have checked your post! Thought you where commenting on my english so I checked it up! XD

cheers

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baxslash
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 14:13
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It's been on hold for a while but I'm aiming to get back onto this once my contract ends mid-May.
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The Slayer
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 16:09
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Your project looks really great, guys! Both the art and the code behind it are of a very high quality, no doubt about that!
I really hope you guys can pull this through, so keep it up!

Quote: "It's been on hold for a while but I'm aiming to get back onto this once my contract ends mid-May."

Sorry to hear about that, bax! It's never fun to find a new job, and never have some sense of job security.

Quote: "Close those quotes before they start to spread!...too late! Aaaaaagh!!!
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baxslash
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Quote: "Sorry to hear about that, bax! It's never fun to find a new job, and never have some sense of job security."

Luckily this time I am pretty much set up for a new permanent position with my current employer at the end of the contract. I'll just be working from home more so less tired and more able to work at night (I hope!)...
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greenlig
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I too just procured a full-time job, which allows me to work from home two days a week, and pays very well. Incidentally, it's tutoring game-dev, and I am strongly encouraged to work on game projects outside of work, as they want the tutors to be engaged in the industry still. Once we're both settled in, I reckon this project will get some of the love it deserves!

(also, 27 years young today )

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Ancient Lady
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Great combination! You are lucky.

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Clonkex
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Quote: "(also, 27 years young today )"


Happy birthday!

Quote: "I too just procured a full-time job, which allows me to work from home two days a week, and pays very well."


Sounds really good!


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baxslash
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Awesome greenlig, I will be working from home about the same amount and not travelling as far on the other days so win win. Congrats on the Birthday too!
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Paronamixxe
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Quote: "(also, 27 years young today )"


Happy birthday mate!

Sounds like you guys got it all figured out!

cheers

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greenlig
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Thanks good people

Hah, things figured out? No way, I'm an artist!!

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baxslash
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In on topic news I have heard from the guy doing the music and he's mastering some tracks and loops for the game. When they're ready I'll put another video up with some music. I hope you like the style we're going for greenlig!
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 18th Apr 2014 15:47
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Congrats and keep up the work on the game because this one needs to be completed

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Clonkex
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Quote: "Congrats and keep up the work on the game because this one needs to be completed"


Absolutely!


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Paronamixxe
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Quote: "In on topic news I have heard from the guy doing the music and he's mastering some tracks and loops for the game. When they're ready I'll put another video up with some music. I hope you like the style we're going for greenlig!"


We're still waiting... Haha

cheers

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Hodgey
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It's been a while since I've chimed in. I remember the early stages of this project - looking pretty good. How's it coming along?
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baxslash
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Well, I haven't heard from the music guy but I know I'll be working with him again soon so here's hoping...

I have been concentrating on learning to publish on Android and iOS (on my new Macbook Air) and have a small project I want to do for work on iOS before I get time to get back onto this project. Also greenlig has been very busy recently and I haven't had any new gfx for ages (not that it would hold me back too much) but this is still my main project I just need to put a big push on it at some point when I have more time. My new job has been pretty hectic for the last 6 months but I should have a little more time now, particularly as I'm commuting via train 3 days a week from now on. 45 minutes sat on a train 6 times a week soon adds up!

I'll update soon if / when I have any news.
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