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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK Version 2 Alpha 2

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Lucas Tiridath
AGK Developer
15
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Location: Kings Langley, UK
Posted: 24th Feb 2014 16:11
I agree with your assessment of BB Digital, indeed I would quite understand if TGC did decide to drop it entirely, but my point wasn't really so much about that specific issue as the general transparency issue of which that is an example. That said, it would be a shame if it was dropped because I've always got my best download figures (especially for paid apps) from Blackberry App World (although admittedly I've never published to the Apple App Store which I imagine would be better). It will also be interesting to see how TGC play it, given that I'm pretty sure BB was explicitly mentioned as a platform during the Kickstarter.

Quote: "It's currently impossible for me to recommend AppGameKit to other developers."

I know there is always a tendency for the community around a product to be the most critical, because they know all its flaws, but it is the uncertainty I find really problematic. Last month, I and a couple of friends entered the Global Game Jam (using XNA) and we were lucky enough to come first in our local event. As a result, we were looking into developing it further, and due to the nature of the game, we believed it would be ideal for the Ouya. Of course I was quick to recommend porting to AppGameKit (my tool of choice) as I had backed V2 which promised Ouya support. However it was difficult to really push for AppGameKit, given that our game used shaders and so needed full V2 support on Ouya. When they asked me when we could expect that support to be released, what was I supposed to say? "Well it was meant to be released late October 2013 but currently, we still only have the Windows only alpha version of the update before the one that includes Ouya support, and there's no revised estimate, but I'm sure it will be pretty soon"? Again it's not the fact that it's late that is the problem, it's the fact that that is all I can tell people. Wouldn't it be so much better if I could say, "well the team behind it hit a range of technical problems and had to work on some other projects, but they've given us a revised estimate of [date] and are now working on it full time again" or something like that?

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that TGC will deliver, it's just that without any information, particularly on the "when" front, it just makes these things that much more difficult. I'm not going anywhere, and I still use AppGameKit V1.8 as my tool of choice for most things, but it's becoming more and more difficult to encourage new people into the fold.

xCept
21
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Posted: 24th Feb 2014 18:25 Edited at: 24th Feb 2014 18:27
Quote: "So please, even if a full blown developers blog like Lee's is too much to ask, even having a regular status update (even just a weekly list of features implemented and targets for the following week) would make this all so much easier."


Something like what Lee maintained for Freedom Engine would be wonderful. Just a bullet list about the accomplishments each day/week.

http://freedom-engine.com/blog/blog.htm

At this point, we don't know if anything is being actively worked on with V2, it may only be developed for an hour a week if that. I've been the biggest supporter of TGC since the early DB Classic beta days (before they became TGC) but am increasingly frustrated by lack of any straight info about the dev process, now approaching six months behind schedule.
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 24th Feb 2014 18:39
Lucas:
If OUYA support was already working I would be posting all over that I made my game in AppGameKit and say "Look how well it runs on OUYA, it is really easy to do with AGK". There are over 31'000 registered OUYA developers and counting. 669 games and counting.

RickV
TGC Development Director
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 24th Feb 2014 21:25
Hi Guys,

Please allow us a little more time. We're aware we're behind on AGK2 and we're freeing up Paul from other duties fully so he can get back on purpose. We'll also be looking at the resources for the project at our next strategy meeting. So we're aware of this issue and we'll get things into place asap.

We believe in AppGameKit for the long term. In fact Lee is in Barcelona doing lots of demos of it at Mobile World Congress this week.

Rick

Development Director
TGC Team
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 24th Feb 2014 21:48
Rick:
Sounds great

I told one of the guys at OUYA that I got problems getting my game running smoothly, so I got hold of one of their tech guys. Would it be possible to get them a free AppGameKit license so they can help users get games working on OUYA? They seem very helpful.

Have you seen their Office Hours Google hangout? They run them live on Mondays, and you can watch them on Youtube afterwards. They got a live chat and are answering questions about development and other things.

Hockeykid
DBPro Tool Maker
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Posted: 24th Feb 2014 22:56
Quote: "I told one of the guys at OUYA that I got problems getting my game running smoothly"


If your still having issues with setting up Eclipse so you can resize the frame buffer, shoot me an email or PM and I might beable to help you out.


Sean

Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 24th Feb 2014 23:02
Rick:
If Paul wan to try to get more speed out of OUYA I can set him up with Tim from OUYA?

Hockeykid:
Sure do. But it's getting very late here right now. I'll fire an email your way.

SoftMotion3D
AGK Developer
18
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Location: Calgary,Alberta
Posted: 25th Feb 2014 01:55 Edited at: 26th Feb 2014 01:19
@Da ...what speed issues are you having? Do you want to try a smaller frame buffer? I created one for low res games 640x360 if you want to try it out.....

i'll post it here------------------> actually at the bottom of this post...

I'm getting a bigger version of my 3d tile engine running smoothly using this player.... my new project is officially a go after running some tests with it.

here is a screen shot of my simulated lighting system with 3d tiles (currently not textured but does support it)

this is a sandbox map size of 1024x4x1024 and am averaging 45fps on ouya with its current view distance.

would be great for a doom style game !


Thanks Rick for the update.... as long as we know that v2 isn't dead.... im happy

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LongFist
19
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Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posted: 25th Feb 2014 03:02 Edited at: 25th Feb 2014 03:06
First: Apologies to all for having been gone so long. (Reality grabbed me, and it has an intense grip!)


Probably the wrong place to ask, but I couldn't think of a better location, since it involves AppGameKit v2. I'm developing an app that will require some pretty involved audio, but it appears I only have two channels (Music; Sound Effects) with which to work. Would there be any way to arrange a mixer for multiple noises/sound effects, or will I need to "get creative" when sourcing out sounds? I just need to figure this out before I get much deeper into the Proof-Of-Concept that is sure to roll off of my desk in about three weeks (or less!)...


Thanks for your time and attention!

- the Lurking LongFist

P.S.: It would appear that my backer badge is missing. Did I miss something - or was I in the wrong place at the wrong time yet again? - Thanks -

LongFist
SuperProgrammer For Hire
SoftMotion3D
AGK Developer
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Location: Calgary,Alberta
Posted: 25th Feb 2014 03:32
it is possible to do a mixer type app using sound files.... I however don't think there is a way to capture a recording from it.

Also keep in mind that agk only supports 100x wavs loaded at once.

LongFist
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Posted: 25th Feb 2014 03:44
I don't need to capture anything, really. I need to be able to mix multiple background noises with a narrator's voice, and I need to be able to manage the music channel separately. This is going to be a challenge, albeit a pleasant one, methinks.

Thanks for the heads-up!

LongFist
SuperProgrammer For Hire
JimHawkins
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Posted: 25th Feb 2014 08:53
You can have at least 8 simultaneous sound channels running. Depends on the device.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
LongFist
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Posted: 25th Feb 2014 13:05
Thanks. That's (kind of) what I thought, but couldn't remember clearly. Getting back into the swing of things - I'm usually resolving these kinds of issues with DBPro, but decided to apply AppGameKit instead, since this development has the potential to "want" to creep onto phones, other portable devices.

And so here we are, back in the thick of things. It's good to be back.


Thanks again!

LongFist
SuperProgrammer For Hire
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 25th Feb 2014 13:25
Quote: "what speed issues are you having? Do you want to try a smaller frame buffer?"


The guy at OUYA seemed to think that my frame rate should not be a problem at 1080p. Not sure if he is correct on that or not. The only big issue is sprites with transparency on. They require more than 3 times as much power when drawn to the screen. I know that at 720p I have no issues, that should be in the region of 90-100 FPS if it wasn't capped to 60 on OUYA.

This is what he said:
"It could be something as simple as the texture blend method or shader that is slowing down the performance."

Of course I have no means to check this or do anything about it. But Paul could.

JimHawkins
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Posted: 25th Feb 2014 13:28
Hi LongFist - The current audio restrictions are a result of the cross-platform design. Android and iOS restrict the streaming (music) tracks to one, but may allow 8, 16,32 PCM (WAV) things to happen.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
Pawprints
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Posted: 26th Feb 2014 23:36 Edited at: 26th Feb 2014 23:38
I think it's important that AppGameKit V2 supports stereo positioning and I've been saying this for a long long time. You can if you're clever play a sample twice (2 stereo recordings with one fully positioned to the left and one to the right) but it's not an ideal situation but is possible. You can manipulate all the volumes so you have full control over voice, sound effects and music.

For me I'm struggling with Video as it doesn't loop seamlessly and it's always on top of the screen oh and it can on occasion show a blank black box that and you can't jump to positions in the video. It would be great if AppGameKit could support background loading as well as loading times can be a bit slow sometimes and it'd be nice if we could be a little cleverer with it.

I've been pretty vocal on Facebook about V2 and I have been concerned about progress and hope that TGC can re-assure us with a physical update and one that is multi platform as that's what AppGameKit is all about. If I wanted PC development I'd stick with DBP as it's still a very competent system. I backed AppGameKit because I believe it has a future and I've felt that it's played second fiddle to a game maker that to me feels like it has a lot less user potential aside from waving some lovely eye candy in front of our eyes. I hope I'm wrong and we get to see some commercially released first person shooters but I feel the world has moved on technologically both on OS's and devices. I guess we'll see what happens. As for the other development well at first that annoyed me but if it helps further cross platform support then long term it has to be a good thing.

Lets hope that we see a glimmer of light at the end of this tunnel and it's daylight and not another train

PS. In case anyone thinks I have no rights to comment, I am a kickstarter backer I just haven't bothered to pester for a badge

If it's not broken don't keep trying to fix it.
JimHawkins
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Posted: 27th Feb 2014 01:26
Pawprints - The sound restrictions are what the lowest common denominator crap phone or crap iPhone will do. That's the main problem with cross-platform everything development.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
LongFist
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Posted: 27th Feb 2014 03:25
Still, it's important that I factor that in now, during the planning phase, than to have to deal with it (and possibly crab a whole lot of other performance-planning) later when I first discover it. That's why I mentioned it here: I had hopes that someone would set me straight (or at least firmly crooked) where that score was concerned.

As always, thanks aplenty. Now I can continue to plan accordingly.


LongFist
SuperProgrammer For Hire
xCept
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Posted: 27th Feb 2014 04:24
@LongFist:

1. Email Christine at this address; chrisbambertgc@googlemail.com

2. Send her these details;

- Your full name
- Your TGC forum name
- The email address you use on the TGC forum
- How your pledged (Kickstarter direct or paypal)
- How much you pledged (we will be cross checking)
Blendman
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Posted: 28th Feb 2014 15:28 Edited at: 1st Mar 2014 09:04
Hi

The version agk2 alpha2 is great (I'm a new user, and I have buy agk today ^^).

I have tried agkv2alpha2 with some examples and my game (WIP : http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=210098&b=48).

I use the online convert tool (https://developer.thegamecreators.com/android/create_apk.php), and the broadcast system in AppGameKit (via Wifi).
The conversion works fine.
I can install the apk on my phone or use the AppGameKit player to test the games or examples.

With some examples I have bugs (windows and/or android conversion).


BUGS

Windows only (windows8)
- Example 'Smackit" is'nt working. I have a White screen.
- in some games/examples : when I close the game (clic on the close window button), I have a crash. I have no message.


Android (conversion with online tool or broadcast via wifi) :
(tested on samsung galaxy trend - android 4.04 (ics))
- the "back" button to exit the game on my phone doesn't work (to exit the game, I have to touch the central button (menu button?))
- the touch doesn't work ( if GetPointerPressed ( ) = 1). Exemple SpriteMoving.agc doesn't work when converted.

http://www.dracaena-studio.com
nz0
AGK Developer
16
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Posted: 7th Mar 2014 02:09
Just downloaded v2 alpha tonight and tried some stuff out.
I also get the crash when closing the window from cross (but not if I code a key to quit).

Right now, I'm really happy to be able to renderToImage() and have got a nice 2nd camera working in my scene.

I will try a few more features out, but think I'll have a bash using V2 for the competition entry.

Is there no distance fog yet in V2? Is there going to be? I'll just code my own fog in if there isn't one, but I'm quite impressed so far!

Impetus73
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Posted: 7th Mar 2014 14:38
it's 2 months since the last alpha now, time for alpha 3?

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
nz0
AGK Developer
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Posted: 7th Mar 2014 19:35
So, only 1 point light still? Is that going to be addressed?
Also, when does 3D physics come in?

Duffer
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Posted: 15th Mar 2014 17:07
@ TGC,

This is amazing. Will AGK2 have any GUI commands?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
bjadams
AGK Backer
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Posted: 15th Mar 2014 18:14
AGK is a game making tool, i think the priority is 2d & 3d commands
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 15th Mar 2014 18:59
Yeah, it's App Game Kit after all. I don't think GUI commands are highly requested.

Naphier
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Posted: 15th Mar 2014 20:56
Ya, most games you'll want to have so much of your own design in the GUI that you won't use standard OS GUI elements. However, we could all benefit from a nice GUI building system. I know I've seen a couple about somewhere around here...

Chmava
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Posted: 16th Mar 2014 14:19
One thing about GUI is build in scrollbar with menu will shorten development time.
Such as the title, variable to offset and the type(Bool, Integer/Float ETC...).

Another feature that will be helpful is the ability to set the write directory away from "AGK/" in document without using "setwriteDirectory()" or using Tier2.

The ability to change icon in IDE without using a icon changer for tier 1.

I also found out that tier one application cannot auto resize in wins7/8 when drag to the side? is this a bug?
Naphier
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 06:48
@Chmava - The Window resize by dragging has always been disabled.

One thing that no one seems to mention is that AppGameKit doesn't integrate with Google Play Game services. It would be really nice to use their leader boards as well as Google+ sign in (which will work for any gmail user). Also iOS Game Center commands could use a feature for retrieving the user names. And finally Google IAP needs to be able to return the receipt number to help prevent fraud.

I understand all of these special desires for Spline and OUYA, but what about social functionality of games? It is a huge aspect of mobile gaming. What about bugs already in AppGameKit?

Will there be room to accomplish any of this plus fixing the multiple bugs in the google code issue base once v2 is released with its basic features?

There are still issues with basic things like edit boxes and Android apps not exiting cleanly with the END command if you use API 19. I'd love to see AppGameKit mature more.

Chmava
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 08:29
Do not forget the bug with text disappearing if created before sprite, in tier 1, the command is only:



Still no news if it's fix, or will be fix before alpha 3.

Also it is indeed a good idea to confirm purchases on Android and iOS as i remember an app that could emulate iAP purchased, giving away all our hard work!

I remember as well that there will be array save, does not seem to exist on v2, alpha 2 as yet.
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 10:05
The current Kickstarter roadmap is based on a community poll about what people wanted the most. TGC also have to follow the Kickstarter. Since Paul is working on AppGameKit alone, it's hard to go outside of this. Stretch goal 2 will contain some highly requested and much needed updates to the AppGameKit core. But after that I am afraid we are stuck with 3D.

DavidAGK
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Posted: 25th Apr 2014 19:21
Just bought into V2 -Yay! (Bronze backer badge not showing for some reason?).

REQUEST - when you implement the replace functionality on the new IDE, can you make it such that you can still scroll through the code? Currently when you're "replacing all" you cease to be able to scroll through the code (the replace window takes over full control). Issue is that sometimes you are selectively replacing a piece of code /variable and to know if a particular instance needs replacing you need to be able to see the surrounding code and currently you can't do that.
DavidAGK
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Posted: 25th Apr 2014 19:25
Digital Awakenings - "stuck with 3D" - I feel the same! I'd like more 2D focus. It's an area that indies can genuinely compete in. 3D is a hard hard game as a small scale indie!

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