Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / This statement is false (my explaination)

Author
Message
easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 05:25 Edited at: 31st Jan 2014 05:28
This statement is false, is that true?
If so, doesn't that mean it's false?
But wait!!! If it's false that it's false, then it's true again!
Which brings us back to the start


Here's my explanation:


Comments anybody?

Attachments

Login to view attachments
bitJericho
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 05:53 Edited at: 31st Jan 2014 05:55
Yes, this is false.

Any statement a person makes should generally be considered an opinion of fact. That's why statements like "In my opinion..." are largely redundant and should normally not be used unless you really, really want to point out that it is an opinion. That's why including sources in any factual statement largely boosts your case or your believability.

http://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-law-resources/news/newspapers-statements-about-school-principal-are-opinion-and-not-def

easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 06:03
Actually, saying 'in my opinion' when that's already inherently true is called a Tautology
It's like saying 10:00 AM in the morning.

One of my favourite Tautologies is 'Not enough pizza is bad for you'. Because the very definition of 'not enough' is 'so little that it's bad for you'. So what I said is "If you have so little pizza that it's bad for you, then it's bad for you", Which is obviously true, even if it's impossible. It's the same as IF 1+2=4, then 1+2=4

bitJericho
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 06:34
I guess I'm saying that the line "Every statement has implied truth" is false. I find it hard to believe that there is not one sentence that could imply untruth. How about "No sentence is ever true." That's pretty close to absurdly false. All statements do have something in common though, they are someone's opinion. If you want to give an opinion with the weight of truth, you have to back it up with evidence.

easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 06:38
Quote: "All statements do have something in common though, they are someone's opinion"

Even 1+1=2?
Is that my opinion, or is that absolute truth?

What about your statement itself? Is that just your opinion?
If so, then it could very easily be false, right?

bitJericho
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 06:44
Yes I would say that's an opinion unless you can back it up with other facts or data.

Of course everything I'm saying is my opinion. Although I did link a source which helps describe my opinion, basically that other people consider this point as well to be true.

easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 07:38 Edited at: 31st Jan 2014 08:54
I suppose that the prefix "It is true that" is pretty much synonymous with "In my opinion".

Edit: In this case only of course

Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 08:13 Edited at: 31st Jan 2014 08:14
I haven't read the posts above this one but I'll quickly inject my two cents. (or quarters, whichever you prefer)

"It is true that this statement is false."

In the same way we can simplify mathematical equations and get rid of unnecessary information, we can do the same with sentences. If we grab "It is true that" and hold onto it really tight and pull hard, the resulting sentence we end up with, "This statement is false", means the exact same thing.

Where was I going with that? No idea.

nonZero
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2011
Location: Dark Empire HQ, Otherworld, Silent Hill
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 09:44
Just something to consider:
What does this point to?
It is true that this statement is false: "I live in a giant bucket"?
With a lack of any disambiguation, this could point to anything which is why we need a specifier.

With regard to face-value, sentence is simple:
if ((!1) == 1) statement.true();
The (!1) is the statement being false part, the 1 being the it being true part. How would your compiler handle it? !1 becomes 0 so we have (0 == 1) which evaluates to 0. Therefore, by programming standards, the whole statement is false.

Remember that 'it is true' -alike statements are assertions. I can say, "It is true I'm a cat," but that does not make me a cat, much the same way prepending "It is true that" does not make the statement true. So we can actually discard "It is true that".

Our real problem is "This statement is false". If we interpret it literally, it claims itself to be false. That is false because because the statement is true for the afforementiomed reason. Once again, though, we have our escape which is that it is an assertion and therefore only the perception of the one stating it. Because of this, it is not false simply because it claims to be just as I would fail to become a cat (or anything else) by claiming not to be a human. Therefore that, too, can be discarded.
Now we have void. I like void.

The answer: Your statement voids itself. To those who insist on an answer, the second half produces a recursive 1/0 because it makes a claim that both proves and disproves itself.

"You realise you're not nearly as funny as you think you are," said Onii-chan.

"I know that, which means I must be as funny as I think I am; in a paradoxical sort of way," I replied.
BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 09:49
Quote: "Even 1+1=2?
Is that my opinion, or is that absolute truth?"


Yes it's your opinion for exactly the reasons BitJericho says. To prove it, I'd just like to say:

1 + 1 = 3,472

Now we have two opinions. The only way to resolve this is to support each one with evidence. People may laugh at my opinion, but they still need to prove I'm wrong to uncover the truth to anyone who reads it.

Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 15:33
Judge to defendant: "Do you ever tell the truth?"
Defendant: "No."

Is the defendant immediately guilty of perjuring himself?



Powered by Free Banners
mr Handy
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Sep 2007
Location: out of TGC
Posted: 31st Jan 2014 19:03 Edited at: 31st Jan 2014 19:20
Quote: "This statement is false, is that true?
If so, doesn't that mean it's false?"

I don't get it. This is clear as sunny day, what's the issue?

Here is russian double negative:
English: They never visit us.= Russian: They don't never visit us.
English: I haven't bought anything. = Russian: I have bought anything.

P.S. Classic: Would you like tea?
English: No. = Russian: Yes no most likely (Yes no probably).
easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 1st Feb 2014 02:17 Edited at: 1st Feb 2014 02:19
It's not a double negative, it's a self-referring statement.

I'll try to explain it simpler:
This statement is false! is that true?
If the statement is true, and it says itself it false, then that makes it false right?
But that makes it's false, and if it's false that it's false, then it must be true again!

If the statement is true, and it says itself it false, then it must be false right?
But that makes it's false, and if it's false that it's false, then it must be true again!
[rinse and repeat]

Lol that's not really simpler

zeroSlave
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Jun 2009
Location: Springfield
Posted: 1st Feb 2014 03:20
There is no irony in this sentence.

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
mr Handy
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Sep 2007
Location: out of TGC
Posted: 1st Feb 2014 08:11
Quote: "There is no irony in this sentence."

No, there is not. What the problem with true and false? I don't see any problem.
nonZero
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2011
Location: Dark Empire HQ, Otherworld, Silent Hill
Posted: 1st Feb 2014 09:21
I thought I cleared it up. Oh well, lemme try again. It is false:
s=1; /* s is stateme */
sc=0; /* sc is statement content */
(s == sc)? /* (1==0) = 0 */
its=1; /* its is Is That True */
(its == 0)? /* (1==0) = 0 */
Answer: False

"You realise you're not nearly as funny as you think you are," said Onii-chan.

"I know that, which means I must be as funny as I think I am; in a paradoxical sort of way," I replied.
BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 1st Feb 2014 12:30
Apparently this paradox #goes back to Eubulides in the 4th century BC. He also had other paradoxes like:

What you have not lost, you have. But you have not lost horns. Therefore you have horns.

mr Handy
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Sep 2007
Location: out of TGC
Posted: 1st Feb 2014 12:42 Edited at: 1st Feb 2014 12:48
Quote: "What you have not lost, you have. But you have not lost horns. Therefore you have horns."

Nah, obvious logical error. You can't lost what you don't have. He was a troll probably.

Here is a better "paradox":
The more you drink -> the more hands are shaking.
The more hands are shaking -> the more spilling.
The more spilling -> the less you drink.
The more you drink -> the less you drink.

Also one of the best:
The more suicides -> the fewer suicides.
BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 1st Feb 2014 12:46
Quote: "Obvious logical error."


Yes, at the time logic was not a common skill. He was a philosopher and teacher of logic. He used these statements to show how you can come to the wrong conclusion.

mr Handy
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Sep 2007
Location: out of TGC
Posted: 1st Feb 2014 12:50
Then he was a good teacher. Even today I know a few people who would stuck on that error.
zeroSlave
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Jun 2009
Location: Springfield
Posted: 2nd Feb 2014 03:27
Quote: "There is no irony in this sentence."

This statement is false.

I think intent and context should be taken into consideration regarding how any statement is defined. It's not all about the small things in the universe that make the universe what it is. It's how they interact with each other.

Oxygen keeps me alive.
It is true that if I stop taking in oxygen, I will surely die. However, if I only take in oxygen and nothing else, I will eventually die from lack of something else that is needed. e.g. water, food, etc. Is the statement true? Is it partially true? Is it false?

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
French gui
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th May 2004
Location: France
Posted: 2nd Feb 2014 19:36
People posting in this thread are insane. (err...)
mr Handy
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Sep 2007
Location: out of TGC
Posted: 2nd Feb 2014 20:31
Quote: "People posting in this thread are insane."

Thank you
NIlooc223
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2010
Location: Heaven
Posted: 3rd Feb 2014 05:39
You are in this thread as well "French Gui".. Welcome to insanity my friend. Don't worry there is no help for people like us..
mr Handy
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Sep 2007
Location: out of TGC
Posted: 3rd Feb 2014 17:27
Quote: "Don't worry there is no help for people like us.."

Hmm I think one of the guys here is hosting help files online. Who may it be?...
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 3rd Feb 2014 17:53
What happens when Pinocchio says, 'My nose will grow now'?

oct(31) = dec(25)
mr Handy
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Sep 2007
Location: out of TGC
Posted: 4th Feb 2014 17:01
I foresee a new banner: "Enlarge your nose with a lie".
Hawkblood
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2009
Location:
Posted: 18th Feb 2014 22:47
You guys do the best geek porn!

if (true!=false) return true;
else return false;

The fastest code is the code never written.
easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 20th Feb 2014 08:03 Edited at: 20th Feb 2014 08:04
Here's another explanation



BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 20th Feb 2014 09:37
The statement is both true and false. For an explanation see Schrödinger's cat - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat

Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 20th Feb 2014 18:00
Quote: "For an explanation see Schrödinger's cat"


Could you explain the connection?

Quote: "v=!v;
//"this statement is false"
//Now what does v equal?"


Not sure what you're saying.

The first line is not an English statement. It is a computer language "statement" - in this case an instruction to replace the quantity on the left with the result of the calculation on the right. No paradox there.

The second line is an English statement which gives rise to the paradox discussed earlier.

As for the question in the third line, since the code doesn't compile in DBPro I guess it's anyone's guess what the code is supposed to do.



Powered by Free Banners
Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 20th Feb 2014 18:43
v=false, there's no paradox there.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
nonZero
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2011
Location: Dark Empire HQ, Otherworld, Silent Hill
Posted: 20th Feb 2014 22:08
Saying "v = !v" will compile on most language compilers as NOT is just a bitwise operation, but, as pointed out, the statement translates better to "v = FALSE". This thread is cotton.

ver7.5
easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 20th Feb 2014 23:01
Quote: "As for the question in the third line, since the code doesn't compile in DBPro I guess it's anyone's guess what the code is supposed to do"


It's C++.....



It's a Boolean maths interpretation of an English question.
There is no paradox in the code, so why should there be in the English?

The problem with the English paradox is that people take it as recursive, where the code isn't. I guess nobody's really figured out if English is recursive or not

Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 21st Feb 2014 04:40
No, in English, your code is equal to "This statement is the inverse of this statement".


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 21st Feb 2014 16:05
Quote: "It's a Boolean maths interpretation of an English question."


Maybe - but it's an erroneous interpretation - and it's not an English question it's a statement.

Quote: "There is no paradox in the code, so why should there be in the English?"


Because they are quite different kinds of statement. The English equivalent of the line



is something like



No paradox in that English sentence that I can see.



Powered by Free Banners
nonZero
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2011
Location: Dark Empire HQ, Otherworld, Silent Hill
Posted: 21st Feb 2014 21:33
This is not a rhetorical question, is it?
Have fun...
Seriously, another Posting Competition? Lucky me. Also, define "feel" without describing the biological mechanism that occurs.
What comes next for x and y in this sequence:
1,2,3,5,11,16,38,x,y...
Finally, see if you can crack this:
a digq i tijgud sugq

Teh heh heh....

ver7.5
Barry Pythagoras
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Mar 2014
Location:
Posted: 22nd Mar 2014 20:35
Statement = False : End

I think that the answer is not to put the statement in a loop.
easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 22:58
Spoken like a true programmer

I agree

easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 26th Mar 2014 02:21
I heard the best ever variation of the liar paradox!

See if you can figure out why:



nonZero
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2011
Location: Dark Empire HQ, Otherworld, Silent Hill
Posted: 26th Mar 2014 07:32
The third error is there are only two errors.


You're a bad man!
easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 26th Mar 2014 07:48
But that means that there really are 3 errors... Meaning that there isn't a 3rd error. Which means that there are only 2 errors, which means there are 3 errors... (to infinity!)

See why it's my favourite!

Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 26th Mar 2014 07:51
Does this mean that one error is in a superpositional state? Or do I not know the meaning of that very hard to use word?

easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 26th Mar 2014 07:56
Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 26th Mar 2014 08:00
I grabbed the word from what I know about its usage in the field of quantum mechanics; that site seems not to mention such things.

easter bunny
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 26th Mar 2014 08:10
I know, I specifically linked to a website that didn't have the quantum physics definition so that you'd look sillier

Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 26th Mar 2014 08:24
Ooooh I see how it is.

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-05-04 20:02:55
Your offset time is: 2024-05-04 20:02:55