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Been a while, long story, but I'm back hopefully
The six foot redhead returns! woohoo!
Looks like I'm gonna spend the next few weeks learning new DB skills.

Anyways, anyone here remember me,


If not, never worry, maybe this will amuse you

If you can read this out loud without making any mistakes then you are one in a million:

This is this cat
This is is cat
This is how cat
This is to cat
This is keep cat
This is a cat
This is dumbass cat
This is amused cat
This is for cat
This is sixty cat
This is seconds cat

Now read the third word of everyline!

hehe

Welcome back then and... ... ... thanks for the insult

Well that was fun...

Can't say that i've seen you on these forums before, but then again, i've not been a member that long either.

Anyways, welcome back, i'd say!

Well the name is familiar - but I usually need to put a project to a name, kinda like putting a face to a name I guess. What did you work on last time round?

Also - you should check out AppGameKit, it's like DBClassic but better, and for mobile platforms. I think it's free right now, so your timing might be perfect.

I remember you! Welcome back. (I'm Benjamin, with a new account since I forgot my password)



Since you've been gone we've officially instated the rule "pics or it didnt happen".

I remember somebody called Rose from 2003. That was a long time ago.

<MOD EDIT> Family Forum </MOD EDIT>

Welcome back, and thanks for the giggle

WoW what a 'period' to come back to something after...

Pleased to me you... I think. First time I've been sucker-punched right off the bat. I'll have to remember this incident.

Oh, and welcome home.

aww thanx

I did a wee bit in 2d, one game was called Orions Rose.
not even sure I posted it.

Gonna get stuck into coding again, I missed it.
Been dabbling in some basic educational 'programming' recently. All about teaching kids to code.

In the last week alone I've used Scratch (connected it to my kinect), missionmaker, game maker, project spark....

been busy!

I'm going to assume, based on your post, you're a teacher. May I make a suggestion?
If not, don't continue reading this post...

With no disrespect to TGC point-'n-click or BASIC products (as I'm extremely fond of DBP and AppGameKit seems great, albeit limited for now) nor any disrespect to easy game makers such as Game Maker, RPG Maker and that ilk, they are terrible to teach programming in my humble-though-coming-across-arrogant opinion. Basic, as I see it, is actually a more professional's language. This is because those who learn it will learn bad habbits that will cripple them in C/C++, and Java/C# which are the top development languages whereas, the other way around, the experienced coder is unlikely to learn such habits. As for point-'n-clicks, I'll advise that even those with scripting will likely teach terrible habbits.
Python is a good language for the beginner because, aside from having a lot more discipline, it is a useful job skill since python scripting is de facto on Linux systems aaand many engines have or will have Python bindings. Personally I'm not a fan of Python (so this is unbiased) and I foolishly quit my Python course years back. I regret it horribly today but back then I only had a background of self-taught Qbasic (the free one that came with MSDOS) and a minuscule amount of C (C89 to be precise).
To me, the best beginner-language is C. It's not complex and full of templates, classes, etc like C++ and it teaches very strict disciplines on memory management, variable declaration, etc. The best part is, it segways the user into OOP (see an ebook called "OOC") by forcing them to implement OOP concepts on a lower level so that when they use C++, they understand what they are doing. Obviously C is not suitable for children, though, but I thought I'd add a paragraph of pontification just as any C-zaelot would (think I'm bad, read some of the emails regarding introducing C++ into "git" between Linus & co).
Back to Python. Python can be built into executable files or used as a scripting language. The design emphasis is simplicity, fun to code in and being very absolute about what you are doing. If memory serves there are several free engines that allow nearly as fast prototyping for games as any Basic. You should look up Python on Wikipedia (I can't post the link coz my idiot mobile browser generates garbage). Also, take a look at PyGame (can't post link for same reason).
Anyway, if you really want to stick with basic, I would say AppGameKit may be slightly better for kids than DBP because it seems (based on my only looking at it briefly the other day) a little more structured and disciplined.
As I said, Basic, esp DBP, is actually better suited for experienced programmer because they won't learn bad habits and can, where they have experience with lower-level or semi-lower-level resource-management, take advantage of the "under-the-hood" knowledge and, more generally, knowledge and understanding of how and why structures of programs and flow are the way they are.

Wow, I did drivel on. It's just there's a winXP box staring at me and I don't feel like fixing because the client has done a number on it. Over a minute and a half just to boot
Well hope you find this useful, even if you don't use it.

Thing is nonZero, everyone has their own experience and workflow, but I found that making a game in C++ was easy because of my experience with DBPro. And I found Game Maker to be very object orientated, and pretty much ideal for learning OOP techniques. I'd even go as far as to say that Game Maker has a better implementation of OOP than most game centric languages and presents it in a way that just makes sense.

I don't think that BASIC encourages bad habits, it just doesn't mind too much about them. Some incarnations of BASIC are very strict, like PureBasic for example. Developers can't keep this idea that anything below C++/C# is bad... or even that systems like GM are bad - it's counter productive, there are a few GM games that are a flyaway success, like Spelunky for example, or Hotline Miami.

I'm not convinced that it's always a good idea for someone to learn to program - some people just aren't cut out for it, some people just won't learn it all, and it's no bad thing that there are packages for everyone for game creation, no matter what level of experience. It's more like a microcosm of the commercial industry - people can collaborate a lot better, people can concentrate on design, or art or sound, there isn't a direct need to learn to program nowadays, getting ideas into game form is what counts.

aww thank you, Yes I am a teacher in Belfast and the good news is that coding is now back on the curriculum, so I am looking for something useful but also something that all the kids will enjoy.

I'm doing Mediator with junior school for a basic drag and drop game, then Scratch and Gamemaker with the older 14-16 year olds.

Also starting a programming club in May as lots of the boys in my DA GCSE class have expressed an interest. We also got some Rasberry Pis to play with.

When I was school, in the noughties (as appently its now called) we did Turbo Pascal. I totally loved it, sad I know but true.

I found C++ quite easy to learn and understand, it's quite basic - aswell as complex. Learning C++ also assisted me when I was about to learn Javascript

I would absolutly recommend people to learn C++, or atleast learn the basic gest of C++ at first.

Turbo Pascal was my first foray into more standard languages, closely followed by Cobol - But I always liked Pascal, I enjoyed it so much that I did the 8 week course in the space of 4 days then asked for more

I have that in the back of my mind Quik, that learning C++ means it'll be much easier to learn things like Java, to the point where really the specific language isn't a concern, even if you have never used it. I mean, if I have to use Java then I'll learn it, and learn it quick - but only because I saw through the obfuscation that is learning C++. Too many programmers made too much money by making C++ appear too complicated, it's good to just get stuck into it and realize that it's not rocket surgery after all

I started on QBasic and it hasn't stopped me from learning C++ or OOP. The purpose of learning on Basic is more about the idea of critical thinking and logic rather than program flow and capitals

This is true. I'll admit my opinion is purely subjective; coming from someone who taught themself to program by analysis of Qbasic example programs and later a few inro C docies (which is why I quit coding. Well that and life). Anyway, as I've stated in previous threads, DBP rekindled my need to code because it was QBasic-ish but it compiled and, OMG, it made 3D stuff. I'll agree with easter bunny on developing core logic as when I started I had zero access to anything but a MSDOS machine, QB and the example programs (to a ~11 yo it's exciting but daunting) since my country didn't have home internet as such. Some years later, I got ahold of a C compiler and a few intro docs. C was not learn-able like Qbasic and after learning some basics, I gave up due to frustration at limited resources and limited results (when you've made somewhere over 10 games and apps in QB including full graphical ones but then you're stuck outputting text to the console in a compiled language, it helps drag you down). So I guess you have a point since I may not have given in had DBP been around. My youth was full of turmoil (mostly teen crap I'd love to punch my then-self for) and my high school only offered "Compu Typing" which was typing mixed with computer literacy (there's a funny story: will share it below). Anyway I continued with software/hardware on my own and between myself and a friend, we hive-minded and learned a lot together. Jump to a few years back. DBP was the things that got me back into coding. A friend suggested Python during this time and gave me a full course pdf, and a zip with all the examples and an installer for Windows. Stupid me was having too much fun with DBP and I found Python frustrating because DBP was giving me more instant gratification. Biiiig mistake! Should never pass up a learning opportunity. Eventually I needed functionality DBP couldn't give so I dove into C++ (it being the modern language) and promptly drowned in my own stupidity. I'd not only got into DBP-thinking but I tried to apply knowledge from the C I'd learned over a decade ago to it. Worst of all I didn't even know I was making a mess because I got things to compile. Then, thanks to the internet, I learned enough to make me realise how much I didn't know (you can quote me on "The more we learn the more we realise how much we don't know"). So I, picked up where I left off with C (switched to 99 std) and decided to de-rust myself and use that over C++ since I had a vague familiarity (and vague I realised it was). Then I went a little into OOC and I actually started understanding how things in C++ worked. C++ became completely understandable then. Sadly, I just love using C so much that I always try to use it wherever I can. We've been having this love afair for years but it feels as fresh as just yesterday.
So, yeah, you're right, it is very much to do with experiences. Mine was that if only I'd started with a disciplined language, I'd have struggled less. I developed my beliefs on learning coding based around the idea that learning a disciplined method allows easy transition to an undisciplined method but not vice-versa. I admit, however, I did not consider people who aren't NBCs (Natural Born Coders). I'm not very era-aware so I keep forgetting that coding isn't just a geek thing anymore. Your comment about people who aren't programmers makes sense. There must be plenty of those -- at least so the markets for prefab game-creation dictate. I may have wound up one as well because I discovered an app called RPG Toolkit before DBP, wrote a script (like a movie script, not code) for an RPG and then decided RPG Toolkit lacked the features I needed (putting instability aside). I went through a few game-creation tools before my friend (same one who gave me the Python stuff) said he'd found this DBP. Well, never got my RPG done but it's been fun and I'm back coding again.
I still stick by my beliefs about best first language being C for the individual adult striving to be a programmer and Python for the individual child but I do see your point with regard to school environments because, as you say, everyone's on a different level and they don't all have it in them or desire to be programmers.

I agree with a lot of what you said but this is like seeing a dude levitate: you know it must be happening because you see it (ie you wouldn't bs me) but your mind won't accept it's true, lol.



Why wasn't I in your school? My school had Compu-Typing. That's typing + baaasic computer literacy. Like learning what the stiffy drive is and what the hdd is (without teaching them how to id one inside the box). I never took it but I helped a few people in my grade because I knew more about computers than the teacher did. For real. The CompuTyping teacher was so useless that the geek squad and I used to fix and service the machines and one of my friends installed a NES emulator on each of them. So much for my big eyes when I heard the school were getting 20+ networked machines donated and we were tossing the bloody typewriters.


WHYYYYYYYYY weren't you a teacher at my school (putting aside the obvious chronological impossibilities)? The geek squad begged for a computer club (coding/hardware/software/anything) for "extra murals" (at my school it was Tuesdays after classes) but we were instead forced into sports and later they gave us table tennis for the "less physical" and finally got as far as offering chess before, thank Haruhi (anime ref), extra murals was disbanded.

Oh dear, another wall of text. I hardly ever post two long ones in a row. Well, I must say, this is an interesting discussion that has arisen from going a little off-topic in this thread. Typical TGC forums.

I started programming with QB, and before that was a point n' click SEUCK on Amiga. I didn't have any issues learning java when I went to college. I think there's enough helpful forums out there that anyone teaching themselves BASIC today will get enough feedback from others if they have a particular bad habit in their code, like using GOTO.

But I also think you could start someone off with an OOP language as well, I don't think starting with objects or procedural hurts either one. However, the benefit of BASIC variants to new programmers is how quickly they can get results in their projects. This helps keeps interest in programming, a key factor I think when getting someone new to stick with coding for the first time.



I must have been lucky in my highschool. Even though our computers ran on Cyrix 133mhz, I had typing, pascal, C++, and an html class. Plus, I was one of the lucky few back then who took Novel networking which was only offered once in our school.

That's another good point. It's one of the factors that lead me to quit later on when I tried to venture beyond QB: no instant gratification like before. Ironically it's in line with why I wished I'd learned C first; not to have been spoiled by Basic. But I'm starting to get the impression that external factors play I key role. I think perhaps I was shaped differently due to my environment. So perhaps my beliefs are just based on what I would have preferred. For me, moving away from QB felt like moving down, almost like having to start over. To a young mind, outputting to the console was boring because I'd written full graphical applications in QB. I suppose, in short, I think outputting to the console would've been more exciting had I not first been exposed to QB since my first QB apps were text-based and it was exciting enough until I started using graphics with the drawing commands.

WB as we used to say back in those days lol

I was very big into the QB scene back in the early to mid 90s. I kind of miss it.

Wow!! So much reading!! Good to meet you all. I just love teaching and coding so I really do have my dream job. Although I am quite an eccentric teacher, as this morning I arrived to form class and insisted on reading them the first few pages of divergent, as they told me they were going to the movie after school and I argued the book would would be much better. (I'm really mean, I make them read during 20 min form class, everyday except Friday)

I remember COBOL- aww the memories, that was my favourite at Uni. I run a few clubs after school, I used to also run a lunch time chess club. It's amazing how an hour or two of my time can make such a difference in a kids life. I also went to a school where they pushed sports and I just really sucked at Camogie and netball so hated having to do sport. I also got picked on quite badly, I was 6 foot tall at 14 years old, I'm also a redhead and at school I just brushed my hair so it went really frizzy. Maybe the bullying was the reason I wanted to teach, to make a difference.

It's great to hear how you guys got into programming and what languages you used. Did you teach yourself or have support? I had a good teacher who was passionate about programming and that's why I enjoyed class so much. Any advice for teaching kids to code?

Thanx

I personally started programming on my own with dark basic, then AppGameKit and now C++. I have also learned Java, and web development in school. I had 2 teachers who teached verry diffirently, one did it really well, one did it terribly. The java programming class was basicaly look at the teacher code on the projector and copy paste it which worked terribly. I don't think anyone that didn't know how to program before learned anything from that course.

The web development coruse was a lot more free work, the teacher started off going thru the basics of whatever the course involved and let us do some small exercises on everything we learned. Then we went on to work on some projects of our own where he let us work freely and helped us when we got stuck. That model worked out flawlessly and it seems like both the people who had no idea what programming is when the course started and the people like me who knew how to program before learned an equal amount from it. A really good thing about the web dev courses is also that we get to work on projects that interest us, I have a lot of game like things with javascript and HTML5 that don't really involve the "web" aspect but since I still used the tools it didn't matter which has made the courses a lot more interesting. So the best way to teach (or be taught) programming IMO is to let the kids actually do programming and let them do things that actually interest them.

It sounds like you teach a younger age than this though so maybe "free work" like this isn't really an option.

Cobol? Favorite? I see that you and me aren't going to get along! :p I hated cobol!

6 foot? That's a plus. Dunno why kids are so evil. I developed a huge complex for being a little overweight. Oh, I excercised at home and toned up but I've never been able to not see a fat person in the mirror, even now that I'm thin due to my poor diet. I guess I was lucky though coz I could at least hold my own in a fight having come from a rough neighbourhood so I got the little buggers back but they've still got the final laugh I spose.


Well, as I mentioned, I was self-taught on QB. I learned everything by example. No resources existed when I started as my country hadn't caught up technologically yet. I've always been proud of that actually because I didn't even know what an array was when I started using them. I had no terminology, I just figured out how it worked. The first thing I ever figured out by myself was n = n + 1 to increment n by itself. I wasn't even at my PC at the time. But I've always been one of those that doesn't read the manual first. I'm not some intellectual god, but I have an accelerated learning capability. Now a few years later when I tackled C the first time, I did have a few doccies which I think I did need, especially after getting into the QB way of thinking.

Cobol is a weird language, from a time when languages all had their own industry niches, but whenever I have to parse raw data from another system, or format a pure text report, I'm kinda glad I still remember it.

When I was a kid, computer magazines were the only real source of info - and the 8-bits all kinda expected you to program for them. A lot of magazines would have code listings and tutorials and we'd take turns typing them in, mostly just to see if they worked. Then a neighbor who had his own software company gave me a book he'd written (Spectrum Adventures) and that was just fascinating. It was the early 80's, and there was nothing else to do!

Welcome back.

Lately I've been using Haxe with HaxeFlixel to make multiplatform games. I really enjoy C-scripted languages and full OO-capabilities, and Haxe is incredibly fast and efficient, and exports for iOS, Android, Windows, OSX, HTML5, Blackberry, and more.

AGK is great and everything, but if you're new to the platform it's incredibly confusing where to start. Just take one look at the AppGameKit forums here and you'll see a mess of stickies (some outdated) and seemingly endless amounts of confusion between Tier 1 and Tier 2. At least that was my experience I also wish there was an IDE for OSX...

I'm really looking forward to AppGameKit 2 though It looks quite promising

COBOL was the second ever language I ever studied, the teacher makes the class I think, if you like the teacher you will like the course more. Anyone here ever used Mediator? I'm doing some stuff for tomorrow on it.