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Geek Culture / Heartbleed virus

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Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 13th Apr 2014 01:10
I only recently heard about this virus, and yet they're calling it the biggest computer threat in history.

Here's a list of supposedly affected systems where you should change your password. (which would be easier to read if they didn't mix in other services stating you don't need to change)

http://www.wnci.com/onair/chris-davis-211/the-heartbleed-virus-the-passwords-you-12247595/

The Next
Web Engineer
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 01:19 Edited at: 17th Apr 2014 14:20
Technically this isn't a virus and many have been led to believe it is worse than it really is. It doesn't infect anything at all, the servers themselves are never infected like a virus would do. Instead the SSL protocol can be manipulated to give sensitive data to the hacker, if you want an easy to understand explanation see this http://xkcd.com/1354/.

You are correct in saying this is a big deal though it affects a large percentage of liunx servers on the internet, it has been kept on the down low up till now but has been known about for a while. Luckily it is easy to patch and just involves updating OpenSSL.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 01:28
So basically, they pull a request of what was previously requested and still sitting in the buffer so to speak?

The Next
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 01:34 Edited at: 13th Apr 2014 01:40
Exactly. Normally that data would be in-accessible, as I remember it is the data waiting in the queue to be encrypted with OpenSSL to be sent back to the right recipient they can get. the bug in OpenSSL meant the hacker could grab what was in the queue and retrieve it inside their own private key, which can then be returned to plain text on their end. The end result being they see any sensitive data sent by all users to the server.

The technique is actually really easy to perform (hence why it worries security experts) if you know the info on the bug and every single Linux server on the Internet, running buggy versions of OpenSSL will be affected.

Windows 7 Pro, Intel i7 3.8 GHz, 16GB DDR3, NVIDIA GTX 780 4GB Superclocked

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Blobby 101
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Location: England, UK
Posted: 13th Apr 2014 03:11
@The Next: do you know what the status is with this website? Should I change my password here, or is it fine?

Phaelax
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 06:49
I don't think this site even uses ssl.

The Next
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 12:32
The forum part of TGC does not use SSL but the login system does, I know that these servers do use OpenSSL though.

I am not the one that manages the TGC servers directly, so cannot say for sure if they have been patched or not, I will get hold of Rick today and get him to push through a patch if it hasn't been done.

I would leave it a few days and then change your password if you are worried.

Windows 7 Pro, Intel i7 3.8 GHz, 16GB DDR3, NVIDIA GTX 780 4GB Superclocked

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 12:54
OK, thanks. Better to be safe than sorry I guess

Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 18:53 Edited at: 13th Apr 2014 19:01
The main server which covers the main website, TGC Store, and handles all the TGC login requests and order processing was never vulnerable to this bug as it was running an older version of OpenSSL. Our other server which handles the forums, freedom-engine.com, and the online APK builder was patched the morning of the 8th, the day after the bug was revealed publicly, so the chance that it was attacked are small. As The Next says the forums do not use SSL anyway, so the only sites that could have been affected would be www.freedom-engine.com and the online APK builder. Since Freedom Engine is rarely used and APK keystore files are rarely generated the chance of any sensitive information being revealed is very low.

If you happened to log in to the freedom-engine.com site between the 7th and 8th of April there is a very small chance that your Freedom Engine account password was revealed, or if you generated a keystore during this time then its private key might have been revealed. I stress that this is a very small chance, but if you want to be cautious, and you performed one of the above activities between the 7th and 8th April, you should change your Freedom Engine password or regenerate your keystore before you use it on an app (although if you've already used the keystore then you have to keep using it to update that app).
Blobby 101
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 18:58
Fair enough, none of that applies to me so I'm good, but thanks for clarifying!

nonZero
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 14:10
For censored's sake! This is elementary stuff that any C programmer has drummed into them at noob level. I know we all make mistakes but nobody picked up on this!? It should, in theory, take a line or two of code to fix.

What I worry about most though is how it will affect people's opinion of and trust in FOSS. I saw a comment just recently where some idiot was blaming it on the open source model. It was something like "[This wouldn't happen with a proprietary, closed source syatem because this is something that's too elementary for a hacker to even think of trying, but being able to see the source makes these systems vulnerable]" which, to me, is just crap because a professional hacker lives by the creed of "Effective yet simple" and secondly because this could have been accidentally discovered. In both cases, a proprietary system with this oversight would've been a ticking time-bomb. Besides, this was discovered by a pen-testing team so it would have come up regardless.

The issue I have mixed feelings about: How big of a threat is this reallistically to the individual person (I'm specifically not talking about corporations here now but rather folks like you or me)? Grabbing data from, essentially random, memory is meaningless without doing it enough times and fast enough to obtain something usable. It's also targetless in the sense that one cannot target a specific person. At most you could target the server itself right? Or did I miss something (I'm not a networking guy so I don't know all the ins and outs)? I'm looking at it from a socialogical perspective here. What purpose is there in hijacking some everyday person's gmail account when you can create your own free (including batches of them)? The only risks I see are with regard to finances, for example online shopping etc and even then, we're grabbing at pieces of puzzles not knowing which puzzle we even want to build. I guess what I mean is how much of an effort would it be to gain anything of any value through this exploit. Once again, I speak as someone who isn't a networking expert and someone whose security is extremely high by luck and paranoia (I don't keep sensitive data on my phone nor do I login to any important sites from it, I don't have any online financial services other than with my bank, I have other people do my online shopping and give them a little percent (except where I can make a bank deposit with a reference number) and I don't have much personally identifiable info kicking about (if any) on the net) so maybe I just can't picture this because I'm so distanced. I am trying to put myself in that situation but it's hard to imagine even using a credit card online or over the phone.
I dunno, what does everyone else think? How's everyone feel about this? Are we in, as unknown entities milling about our boring daily lives at much risk? If so, exactly what, besides the obvious? This is a genuine question from someone who still does most things in the real world.


You're a bad man!
BMacZero
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Posted: 15th Apr 2014 11:12 Edited at: 15th Apr 2014 11:14
Quote: "What I worry about most though is how it will affect people's opinion of and trust in FOSS. I saw a comment just recently where some idiot was blaming it on the open source model. It was something like "[This wouldn't happen with a proprietary, closed source syatem because this is something that's too elementary for a hacker to even think of trying, but being able to see the source makes these systems vulnerable]""

I thought the same when I saw that article. It was titled badly - if you read it all the way through, he was actually just criticizing all these big companies that are using OpenSSL for not giving back to the development process and instead just freeloading off the open source nature of the software.

Quote: "I dunno, what does everyone else think? How's everyone feel about this? Are we in, as unknown entities milling about our boring daily lives at much risk? If so, exactly what, besides the obvious? This is a genuine question from someone who still does most things in the real world."

It's hard to answer this - and that's the scary part. Because the bug has been "in the wild" for nearly 2 years, we have no idea if anyone malicious had discovered it before now and been using it all this time. Absolutely any encrypted information that was sent to an affected server over that time period could have been read out by someone.

Additionally, there was some delay between when the bug was announced and when web services actually got it fixed. If you sent HTTPS data over the internet during that time, that's what you should be worried about, because there were definitely people looking then. I think e-mail is probably the main concern for the average web user - almost all services now tie their security to e-mail through verification messages, so if someone gets access to that, they could do a lot more.

nonZero
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Posted: 16th Apr 2014 21:33
That's a good point about emails and password recovery. Luckily I don't use my emails for most of my accounts (I create dedicated email accounts as per a security article I read a while back). I did decide to look into my bank though and they say they don't use ssl and they're using their own layered security syatem (whatever that may be). I have to enter a PIN sent to my phone to do anything online so I guess it wouldn't matter if someone got in (unless they had my phone, lol, then I'd be done). Well the two year period does raise alarms I suppose, as a privacy issue because of those NSA rumours. Luckily my life's been quite boring for most of that time and completely offline for the rest. Some of my friends are a little worried about their mail and privacy. Everyone seems confident now that it's taken care of (strange considering the fact that so many sitea haven't been patched). Maybe it's also that the media seems to downplay tech issues where I live.


You're a bad man!
bitJericho
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Posted: 17th Apr 2014 00:22 Edited at: 17th Apr 2014 00:24
Quote: "You are correct in saying this is a big deal though it affects every single server on the internet"


It only affects servers running openssl. There are other options out there so not every server is affected.

As for passwords and things being leaked, it's possible the private key of a compromised server was leaked which means any data coming back and forth at any time can be decrypted from now until it's replaced, so the SSL keys should be replaced before security can be considered "restored".

As for this being FOSS or not, yeah has nothing to do with anything. It was fixed quickly, rolled out quickly, and everybody knows about it. I'd say OpenSSL is now that much safer than the closed source alternatives.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 17th Apr 2014 00:34 Edited at: 17th Apr 2014 00:42
An exploit was found, it was addressed quickly and web services are updating themselves (many have already) to combat this flaw. Change your passwords on sites that have had data transmitted during the period of vulnerability and you're sorted.

I'm not sure how many services using credit card transactions will be affected. I'm not worried because I've not entered such details to any servers during the so called 'attack', but I don't know if OpenSSL is used to secure this data? I suppose as it's being requested by the server then it would be, but I don't know anything really about that area of security on websites.

But as Jericho says, not every server uses OpenSSL, for instance any Windows Server using ISS on it will have its own SSL configurations...I am making this point because Windows is often perceived as something vulnerable and websites using ISS were not affected.

However, any information technology can find they have bugs and there will always be somebody there to find them and work out how to exploit them. I suppose it makes the job of a developer challenging, but typically if there's a big issue, developers are quick to address and fix the issue...at least, most of the time.

The Next
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Posted: 17th Apr 2014 14:20
@bitJericho

Yeh a mis-statement on my part I know it is only servers running certain versions of OpenSSL, normally the Linux machines.

I have updated my first post to be more correct

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