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Geek Culture / DX11 poll

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Hawkblood
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 16:23
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Does anyone still use a video card that isn't DX11 compliant? If so, why?

The fastest code is the code never written.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 17:30
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Is there a simple way of finding out?



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The Zoq2
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 17:46
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Looking at the manufacturers website should probably tell you. Other than that, I have no idea.

I personally have DX11 support on all my computers and by the looks of it, even the GTX400 series support DX11 so I don't think that many people don't have support for it

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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wattywatts
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 18:41
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Quote: "Is there a simple way of finding out?"

I think if you check out anything on canyourunit it will tell you your full specs.
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The Next
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 19:14
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It is easy to check simply search for this in you start menu "DxDiag.exe", or open cmd and enter "DxDiag" and press enter.

You will be shown your DirectX version at the very base of the first screen.

Windows 7 Pro, Intel i7 3.8 GHz, 16GB DDR3, NVIDIA GTX 780 4GB Superclocked

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 19:29
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The DxDiag program will indicate the Direct X driver version but not your graphics card's Direct X 11 support.

I found this out when attempting to play Direct X 11 games and the Direct X 11 plugin for Dark BASIC. My graphics card can only run it in Direct X 10 compatibility mode.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 13th Apr 2014 21:54
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Quote: "Does anyone still use a video card that isn't DX11 compliant? If so, why?"

- An innocent question made by a wealthy boy. Meh. Doesn't need to be answered, honestly.

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Hawkblood
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 03:06
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I found this link:
http://solidlystated.com/hardware/list-of-directx-11-video-cards/
It has a list of DX11 compatible cards.

And as far as "wealthy boy", I work for the money I spend on things. And YES it does need to be answered.

I have a GTX 560. Not exactly top-of-the-line.

The fastest code is the code never written.
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 04:06
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Anyone who is running an earlier OS than Windows 7 can't run a "legit" DX11 version.
Also lots of early cards from the Windows 7 era doesn't support it fully. That said, most graphics cards actually aimed at gaming from ~2009 and onwards does support it, as do most recent on-board GPU:s in both laptops and desktops. Windows 8 *requires* DX11.1 if I recall correctly.


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
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Dar13
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 06:44
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I've found the best information for hardware information is the Steam hardware survey.

As to your question, my GPU is DX11-compatible.

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 07:13
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Quote: "Does anyone still use a video card that isn't DX11 compliant? If so, why?"


nope, don't have any need.


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mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 09:59 Edited at: 14th Apr 2014 10:06
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Hawkblood, your question uses words "anyone still" which means your world vision is centered to your person and bordered with your friends.

Some people just don't have enough money OR will to upgrade OR build a new SYSTEM above win XP. Yeah, you are cool modern guy, but accept this:

Those people just don't care of DX11 as they are not obsessive with games. They bought PC long ago. Game will not run - they will not play.

P.S. DX11-only games list is very small.

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Van B
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 10:37
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Every laptop I own, 2 netbooks and a monster laptop with a 21'' screen. At work there are about 90 PC's, and maybe 2 of them have DX11 compatible cards, the rest are still on XP and cruddy on-board GFX.

I think you have to decide which market your interested in, business and home use of PC's is very very different - some people for example will need to stick with XP just because the software they use isn't supported. To upgrade 90 PC's to decent Win7Pro machines is a huge investment, like probably more than £70,000 by the time you add in MSO licensing.

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Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 10:48 Edited at: 14th Apr 2014 10:50
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I have the HD 5670. It was one of the first DX11 cards. It's a budget card, I doubt that it performs too well. Anyway, I have Windows XP, I don't like other Windows versions.
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Matty H
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 12:14
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Quote: "Hawkblood, your question uses words "anyone still" which means your world vision is centered to your person and bordered with your friends."


I think you are jumping to the conclusion that this is some kind of bragging thread and therefore giving Hawkblood a hard time.

Is it not possible that since Hawkblood makes games(and good ones at that) he genuinely needs this info for some project he may be planning?

I am running windows 8 on two machines and 8.1 on my main machine so I think I am dx11 ready to go.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 13:32
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Matty H
Well, okay, but that picture shows that every third PC user don't have DirectX 11 (because win XP).

Also, DirectX 10 and 11 are not open-source, so making pure DX11 application will hurt Linux (Wine) users, as Wine supports most but not all of old DX9. Damn you, Microsoft.

So I recommend to go classic: DX9 engine with DX11 optional features. Therefore, all users will be able to run the app and 2 of 3 could run it at it's best (DX11).

IMHO: never saw an engine that really should run ONLY on DX11, all those "exclusives" are moslty forcing and promoting new versions of Windows. Like Resident Evil 5 software lock for "old" Radeons, when similar "old" Nvidias worked.

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Hawkblood
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 18:54
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Ok. Those of you that don't care, don't worry about my questions, as there is no reason for you to post. The OP was just to get a feel for what the market will be in the next few years. It is from a programmer to other programmers.

As per Microsoft, they are no longer supporting XP and therefore the pre-Win7 era is coming to a close.

I am currently developing a DX11 game, so this is mostly for my own knowledge and not meant to denigrate or belittle any other users or developers.......

Quote: "So I recommend to go classic: DX9 engine with DX11 optional features. Therefore, all users will be able to run the app and 2 of 3 could run it at it's best (DX11).
"

That's constructive, and more to the point of the opinion I was looking for. Thanks. I'm not sure how practical it would be for me to write two engines, but I think it would be possible if I made the interface the same for each...... An idea I need to consider.

The fastest code is the code never written.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 19:09
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Chances are, if they're running XP they probably don't care about modern gaming anyway. I'd prefer to see a list of how many of those XP computers are home users and how many are company workstations/ATM/POS/etc...

http://zimnox.com
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Hawkblood
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 19:16
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Quote: "I'd prefer to see a list of how many of those XP computers are home users and how many are company workstations/ATM/POS/etc..."

That's a good point. I'd like to know that as well because I'd think it would mostly be businesses rather than home PCs that are hanging on to XP. This will change soon though because businesses "need" support for their operating systems.

The fastest code is the code never written.
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Randomness 128
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 19:26
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You could also consider using OpenGL 4 instead. It uses Direct3D 11 capable hardware, but is multi-platform and also works on XP.

320x224
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mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 20:12
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OpenGL is good as Wine supports it better than DX. So you can run such app now and in future on Linux. More apps runs on Linux = better to the world.

Also another opinion: do not use super deep features of certain hardware. Like in Neverwinter Nights 1 there was a Nvidia exclusive water, that (if turned on) caused many problems on much later hardware (players are so frustrated when they unable to turn max graphics). It can be very cool feature, but compatibility is your best friend (also less support problems tee hee).

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Seditious
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 20:42
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Quote: "OpenGL is good as Wine supports it better than DX."


Pretty sure you'll find Linux supports OpenGL natively.

I too would advise using OpenGL over DX, or at least allow for the option. Many 3D engines these days support both.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 20:46
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I have a GTX 260 with 2gb onboard ram that is directx 10 only. It's plenty powerful to run any game out there so would be very disappointed to play something that was directx 11 only. That said, I'll probably be upgrading next month to something around the same spec but a little faster hopefully and also quieter! (And directx 11)

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Hawkblood
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 21:59
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I've never tried OpenGL. I thought it was just another abstraction layer like DX. I thought it was basically a different way to talk to the hardware but did the same thing...... How wrong am I?

The fastest code is the code never written.
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 22:05
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You are right, DX and openGL do essentially the same thing. The diffirence is that DX only works on microsoft systems which is pretty much just windows. The exception is DX9 or older which works in wine on other operating systems. OpenGL runs on most platforms (windows, linux, mac, phones) and as long as the hardware (and drivers) support a specific version, so does the operating system.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 15th Apr 2014 01:57
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Quote: "Does anyone still use a video card that isn't DX11 compliant? If so, why?"


Judging by the links in earlier posts neither of my cards (Nvidia GTX 285 and GT 630M) are DX11 compliant. But perhaps I missed them.

As to "why?" - ask Nvidia. I hadn't heard of DX11 when I bought the two machines.

What a strange question.



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Randomness 128
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Posted: 15th Apr 2014 02:36 Edited at: 15th Apr 2014 02:37
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Quote: "Judging by the links in earlier posts neither of my cards (Nvidia GTX 285 and GT 630M) are DX11 compliant."


The GT 630M supports DX11. The GTX 285 doesn't because it's older than DX11.

320x224
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Hawkblood
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Posted: 15th Apr 2014 02:54
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The "why" part is more of......

Is there a reason (other than money and "haven't gotten around to it yet") that someone would choose to keep the older cards. Is the market for DX11 so small that most people don't care to upgrade?

In the mid 90s there was a game I wanted to play (can't remember what it was to save my life) and I remember that my current PC couldn't handle it. I had some money burning a hole in my pocket, so I decided to upgrade. Perhaps if that game hadn't come out when it did, I would have had no reason to upgrade until, well, until I needed to......

The fastest code is the code never written.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 15th Apr 2014 11:53
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I'm more frustrated by the reverse issue - I have to jump through all sorts of hoops just to be able to play some of my older favourite games. Will DX11 etc make matters worse or better?

Something to be said for the old games like chess and draughts (= checkers?) which are always playable - and if you lose a piece you can easily make or substitute another.

Quote: "I would have had no reason to upgrade until, well, until I needed to......"


Sums it up really.



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Hawkblood
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Posted: 15th Apr 2014 23:35
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I had a nostalgia moment last night, so I YouTube'd "Let's play Star Flight". I really loved that game. It was the first *real* game I ever bought. It was cutting edge at the time, but by today's standards would be less marketable than "flappy birds". I even enjoy watching other people play that game-- weird, right?

The fastest code is the code never written.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 16th Apr 2014 00:34
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Quote: "Is there a reason (other than money and "haven't gotten around to it yet") that someone would choose to keep the older cards"

Because not all of us need the latest and greatest.
Technically, I never needed to upgrade from my intel core2 duo because it handled what I needed. I only got an i7 because I wanted it.

http://zimnox.com
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Van B
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Posted: 16th Apr 2014 13:34
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Quote: "I have a GTX 260 with 2gb onboard ram that is directx 10 only. It's plenty powerful to run any game out there"


Hmmmm, not 100% convinced that a 260 would run everything at a playable rate - esp things like BF4. If you consider that you can get a 660 reasonably cheaply now, and it actually uses less power than the 260, then it might be worth looking into. With a 660 you can run anything at max everything

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bitJericho
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Posted: 16th Apr 2014 14:37
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Quote: "Hmmmm, not 100% convinced that a 260 would run everything at a playable rate - esp things like BF4. If you consider that you can get a 660 reasonably cheaply now, and it actually uses less power than the 260, then it might be worth looking into. With a 660 you can run anything at max everything "


Tomb Raider I couldn't use AA to the max, but otherwise it ran maxed out. GTA4 maxed out, hopefully gta5 has similar requirements when it comes out. L4D2 maxed out. Just about any indie game ever made maxed out. Sid Meier's 5. Arma 2 up a ways but definitely not maxed out Probably same for bf but that's not my kinda game. I paid 200 for this card just a year or two ago. How often should I drop 200 bucks? My card outruns any xbox 360, ps3, and it wouldn't shock me if it outdoes the ps4 and xbone.

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Van B
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Posted: 16th Apr 2014 17:58
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Well I don't consider myself a hardcore PC gamer by any stretch, but I had a 260 and just had to upgrade it, was playing a lot of DayZ and Farcry3 at the time, so probably pushing the 260 towards it's limits. Don't get me wrong, I like the 260, but honestly the difference between a 260 and a 660 is well worth $200 - my point is though that the price will continue to drop, might be worth keeping your eyes peeled for a bargain.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 16th Apr 2014 20:27 Edited at: 16th Apr 2014 20:28
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My thoughts exactly, hence my desire to upgrade next month. That said, there's still a ton of life left in this card. Surely enough that an indie should not consider abandoning it. In the grand scheme of things though, it's technically superior to the consoles, and that makes it a reasonable piece of tech whether it runs everything maxed out or not. Not everybody can stay up to date all of the time

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Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 16th Apr 2014 20:43
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Funny but the 260 appears to be more expensive than the 660.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 17th Apr 2014 15:27
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Quote: "The GT 630M supports DX11."


Er, so it does.



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Hawkblood
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Posted: 18th Apr 2014 00:44
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See, the number of people using non-DX11 cards was just reduced by 1.....

The fastest code is the code never written.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Apr 2014 13:07
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Quote: "See, the number of people using non-DX11 cards was just reduced by 1"


The reduction wasn't painless unfortunately.



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