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Quote: "I found another alternative to making casual 2D games that are multiplatform, called HaXe, which is much more mature."

Ooh, this is cool. One of my favourite things to do is check out new and interesting engines, so I'm quite intrigued by this. I thought I knew about just about every game engine out there.

Quote: "Don't get me wrong, AppGameKit was great for prototyping with, but it doesn't have the same FEEL as DBP. It's hard to explain, really, and I'm not sure what the feeling I had with DBP was that is missing from AGK. There's definitely something missing, though"

I kinda know what you mean, but for me TGC's products are always my go-to choice when I plan a new project..... that is, until I realise some feature or other is missing. I truly can't wait until AppGameKit V2 is more mature; currently, DBPro is a brilliant language for PC-only 3D stuff, but not great for other platforms (obviously) or 2D stuff; AppGameKit, on the other hand, is great for cross-platform 2D stuff but not for 3D. When AppGameKit finally absorbs DBPro's functionality, I will be a very happy guy.

The main reason I gravitate towards TGC's products is probably my familiarity with them, but other than that I would have to say its their extreme ease of use. I'm horrified by the over-complexity of some other engines (*cough-cough* Cocos2d-x *cough*). So far I've been somewhat successful with Ogre, and I reckon I could do some awesome things with it, and very successful with the GamePlay engine (weirdly enough).

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29 games

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Posted: 9th Sep 2014 17:50

I have to admit that if I was more serious about making apps and games, if I had a better understanding of programming in general, then I would probably look outside TGC projects more than I do and I don't blame anyone who does. But I would do that with whatever product I was using.

I found going from DBPro to AppGameKit a little odd as well but I felt simillar from going to DBC to DBPro. What is really odd is that using AppGameKit reminds me of DBC, which is quite a nice feeling.

My biggest reason for staying with it is that I kind of assume that DBPro has been / will be sidelined and the focus will be on AGK. Also, people are making games and getting them on the various app stores, which creates a buzz that I feel is missing from the DBPro community.

At the moment I can't recommend anyone actually buys DBPro or AppGameKit V1 (I see V1 ending up like DBC). And, going into the future, I wouldn't be suprised at having to pay for an AppGameKit V3 some time in the future (which I would be prepared to buy if I'm still making games). In fact I would be worried about the future of AppGameKit if there wasn't some kind of paid for upgrade in the future.

It'll be interesting if/when DBPro gets an update, it actually results in more projects being created and people posting about them. I hope it does. I've played the escape demo and was pretty impressed, you can even alt+tab out of the game and back in and it doesn't crash. It'll be nice if they can sort it out in DBPro. I can't imagine going back to DBPro, and understand why TGC don't want to spend too much time on it, but if the improvements are good I would recommend it.

Purple Complex: An Arcade Style First Person Tactical Shooter - full game available now
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Seppuku Arts

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Posted: 11th Sep 2014 04:30

Quote: "which creates a buzz that I feel is missing from the DBPro community"

I do miss that buzz, DBP community had it, it is dead, but glad AppGameKit has it. But DBPro is old now and the excitement isn't there for most.

But maybe time to think of AppGameKit as Dark Basic 3.

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mr Handy

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Posted: 12th Sep 2014 17:12

As I understand mr Lee, AppGameKit 2 (3?) is successor to DBP. The only question why he dropped RC patch.

Why not make "DBP final version"

Also, how to listen to the radio using grass?

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Jeku

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Posted: 12th Sep 2014 18:58

I just realized today what my other issue with AppGameKit was, and it's getting solved. My main computer for the past two years has been my MacBook Pro, because as a web developer I've found that Linux and Mac have the best environments for what I need. My PC rig has turned into a gaming-only rig, and it's in my little den where it gets hot and dark. After using my Mac every day for two years it was difficult getting into AppGameKit which was Windows-only.

Thankfully that is changing with AppGameKit 2, because Lee has been hard at work on the Mac IDE. I'm definitely going to try it out and think of it as DBP 2. Perhaps it will replace Haxe for me?

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Clonkex

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Posted: 13th Sep 2014 16:32

Quote: "As I understand mr Lee, AppGameKit 2 (3?) is successor to DBP."

Yes of course, AppGameKit is meant to be the successor to DBPro, but just yet it lacks most of the appealing features of DBPro. One day AppGameKit will surpass DBPro, though.

Quote: "Thankfully that is changing with AppGameKit 2, because Lee has been hard at work on the Mac IDE."

Lee? No, I don't think so. Paul, more like. Lee is working exclusively on Reloaded right now (actually right at this minute he's at IDF).

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baxslash

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Posted: 15th Sep 2014 12:23

The Mac IDE is great! Much better than the previous one which was Windows only. I can sit and code AppGameKit on my MacBook Air while I'm on the train on the way to work

Soon Paul's adding a one click build for Android in the IDE and an Export to Xcode option so soon I can code and create full app projects for Windows/Mac/iOS and Android all from my lovely little Mac. Very handy!

AGK is NOT a replacement for DBPro though. It's too different in a fundamental way. It's aimed at cross platform development FIRST. DBPro has always been and most likely always will be Windows only as it's reliant on DX.

I would be surprised if the FPSCR additions to the engine are not fed back into DBPro or a "new engine" at some point, otherwise why not just code it all in AppGameKit and get AppGameKit up to professional standard for WIndows at the same time? I honestly don't think DBPro is completely dead yet (at least not if Lee has anything to say about his baby)... just my own feeling on the matter though. I doubt TGC would make any promises on that front as they have made a few too many difficult to keep promises recently. I'd love to see it happen myself as AppGameKit is definitely not going to be capable of anything even close to AAA for a long time yet, if ever. It's not that kind of product.

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BatVink

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Posted: 15th Sep 2014 14:11

Quote: "I honestly don't think DBPro is completely dead yet (at least not if Lee has anything to say about his baby)... just my own feeling on the matter though. I doubt TGC would make any promises on that front as they have made a few too many difficult to keep promises recently"

I agree. If I was TGC, I wouldn't announce anything regarding any new release (if there is one) of DBPro simply because of the backlash (not baxslash) if tentative plans aren't cast in stone within days. My approach would be to announce it and release at the same time. I think it is a long way off though if it did happen, TGC can't detract from FPSCR - and they shouldn't.

Quote: "AGK is NOT a replacement for DBPro though. It's too different in a fundamental way. It's aimed at cross platform development FIRST."

Again I agree. They couldn't take DBPro and make it cross-platform. The only way forward was to start again, and that is akin to starting with DarkBASIC Classic 1.0. It will take time to become a fully fledged development tool. The alternative is to wait 5 years before getting V1.0, so I'm happy to grow up with AppGameKit, just like I grew up with DBC and DBP.

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bitJericho

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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 00:06

Quote: "I agree. If I was TGC, I wouldn't announce anything regarding any new release (if there is one) of DBPro simply because of the backlash (not baxslash) if tentative plans aren't cast in stone within days. "

you mean like collecting payment and then not delivering or even communicating a year after the due date?

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Rudolpho

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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 01:52

Quote: "you mean like collecting payment and then not delivering or even communicating a year after the due date?"

Have TGC done that?
I admit I just ignore the two-per-day spam mails about the weekly campaigns for backing Reloaded but that has already been made available to backers in pre-release form right?

"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"

+ Code Snippet

Because Oct(31) = Dec(25)

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Clonkex

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Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia

Posted: 16th Sep 2014 02:38

Quote: "AGK is NOT a replacement for DBPro though. It's too different in a fundamental way. It's aimed at cross platform development FIRST. DBPro has always been and most likely always will be Windows only as it's reliant on DX."

No, but it can (and, I believe, will) be. Paul wants to add more PC-specific commands that bring back more of the functionality of DBPro.

Quote: "I would be surprised if the FPSCR additions to the engine are not fed back into DBPro"

Lee has said specifically that he wants to do this.

Quote: "otherwise why not just code it all in AppGameKit and get AppGameKit up to professional standard for WIndows at the same time?"

Because when Lee started Reloaded, AppGameKit was in its infancy. Additionally, he would have had to rewrite every single line of code, INCLUDING the C++ plugins. The project never would have succeeded.

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xCept

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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 04:16

Quote: "Because when Lee started Reloaded, AppGameKit was in its infancy. Additionally, he would have had to rewrite every single line of code, INCLUDING the C++ plugins. The project never would have succeeded.
"

I feel that much of Reloaded has, in fact, been rewritten from scratch since Lee began working on it so long ago--which was not really the plan when the original Kickstarter launched. The base FPSC engine has often proved a blocking ground and has taken serious time and thought to rework its components into Reloaded, as I've gleaned from following Lee's blog each day.

I understand why Lee went this route initially to preserve years of previous development work, but using DBP has also confined him to DX9 and Windows machines which has made some obstacles more difficult to overcome. There are times when Lee pursues specific functionality that seems readily apparent in DX11 / GL territory but requires a different thought process for DX9 tech.

I've often felt AppGameKit would have been a cool means of developing a new FPS Creator product; one obvious benefit being simplified cross platform compatibility via OpenGL. When Reloaded was first getting started a fair number of 3D commands had already been added to AppGameKit (you could even export FPSC Maps to AGK), and using AppGameKit to further Reloaded would have benefited both products mutually. AppGameKit is still progressing--albeit slower than it would have with more than one resource devoted to it--but for sure Reloaded is now too far along to consider making a switch-over.

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bitJericho

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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 05:22

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=210220&b=41

It helps to consider the above thread along with the original estimated dates, under heading: "Estimates delivery of each phase": https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tgc/app-game-kit-v2

Now I'm not saying TGC has to be perfect by any stretch, but when someone asks "Why is the forum dying?", my initial thought is on the failure to deliver competitive compilers (my personal desire).

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baxslash

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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 12:20

Perhaps we need someone to lead the community through these troubled times...

Seriously though, I know it's 7 months behind at the moment so we're probably looking at a year in the end. It's not good, but if you consider that 2 key members of the team left TGC leaving Paul to manage AppGameKit development on his own fairly early on I think he's done pretty well.

Originally the work covered by the campaign was 6 months work for 2/3 programmers. That's as much as 18 months of development work. If 1 person does it in 12 months then they've performed a flippin' miracle in my honest opinion...

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Indicium

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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 15:44

Quote: "but if you consider that 2 key members of the team left TGC leaving Paul to manage AppGameKit development on his own fairly early on I think he's done pretty well."

Who left?

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bitJericho

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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 18:33

Quote: "Perhaps we need someone to lead the community through these troubled times... "

I like to think I got that badge for being real

I don't care that TGC's behind schedule (though maybe they should have said something before that thread happened). What I do care about is a progressive, BASIC, compiler. Not a set of 3d libraries that just happens to have a BASIC compiler as an afterthought that is no more advanced than DBC or DBP.

If I wanted to program in objective-c or whatever I wouldn't use AGK. I use AppGameKit for Basic and it lacks seriously compared to the competition, and the competition ain't all that hot either.

TGC got greedy with the marketplace shenanigans and forgot what brought people to their basic languages.

Let's get real here guys, I'm going to throw it out there that I suspect AppGameKit v2 is the last compiler TGC will be making, after that it's FPSC from here on out.

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Clonkex

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 01:51

Quote: "Who left?"

Mike Johnston and... some other guy. I know the old editor of the newletter left, but I'm not sure if that's to whom baxslash is referring.

Quote: "Let's get real here guys, I'm going to throw it out there that I suspect AppGameKit v2 is the last compiler TGC will be making, after that it's FPSC from here on out."

That's possible, especially given the idea is they don't need another one, that AppGameKit will be future-proof. I believe they'll finish AppGameKit V2 and Reloaded, and continue to support and upgrade both. If they drop either one we'll boot them until they support both again

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baxslash

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 10:39

Quote: "I like to think I got that badge for being real"

I know, just kidding

The other guy was Richard Davey their HTML5 expert I believe (among other things) but I guess he was more involved with Freedom Engine than AppGameKit, I think he went on to Aardman Digital or something. I guess it wasn't so much that he was no longer working on AppGameKit than a lot of his workload got shifted onto Paul. Either way it amounts to Paul having more to do than was anticipated.

I happen to agree that AppGameKit is likely to be the last compiler TGC make but for the reasons Clonkex mentioned. AppGameKit cannot be easily shelved as DBP was either because the mobile market is changing so regularly that AppGameKit requires a good deal of maintenance to stay up to speed. Don't get me wrong I've often considered moving onto another development platform but while TGC keeps going the way it is I will continue using their products.

I see a lot of people saying "TGC got greedy" but from the other side of the fence it never looked that way. They were always trying their hardest to keep everyone happy while they kept enough money coming in to stay afloat. A lot of time was invested in trying to make TGC more successful and some of it worked. TGC have always (in my experienced) cared a damned sight more for their community than most software companies.

I develop plugins for CAD software that costs tens of thousands per seat and the community support is not even close to that of TGC, even when you're paying around 10k per year for the maintenance contract. The software itself is not a patch on AppGameKit in terms of usability; For example, if your plugin has a bug in it you get a really vague message such as "Plugin failed to load" and support are usually at a loss to help. This can be caused by something as simple as a naming convention error for a TextBox...

I dream about the days when I was just building games and apps in AGK. Even in its early days it was far nicer to use.

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BatVink

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 11:30

Rich Davey left in February 2007. He made lots of great games and demos that helped to popularise DarkBASIC Classic.

Ravey is the other one who left, but he's now back working with Lee and Simon on FPSCR. He was more involved with "finished products" rather than DBP/AGK language development, although a lot of his requirements for things like Driving Test Success and the AppGameKit mobile games became features in the languages.

Quote: "the community support is not even close to that of TGC, even when you're paying around 10k per year for the maintenance contract."

I can second that. In the ERP world, you can pay £100K and more just to have someone acknowledge a bug. If you want it fixing - even if the fix already exists - then you have to pay more on top.

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Richard Davey

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 12:27

Quote: "The other guy was Richard Davey their HTML5 expert I believe (among other things) but I guess he was more involved with Freedom Engine than AppGameKit, I think he went on to Aardman Digital or something. I guess it wasn't so much that he was no longer working on AppGameKit than a lot of his workload got shifted onto Paul. Either way it amounts to Paul having more to do than was anticipated."

AGK wasn't even a concept in TGCs brain when I left

(or Freedom Engine for that matter). I've also never worked on a compiler in my life. I was responsible for building the web site, the support system, the forum, lots of games and the newsletter. I never directly worked on core TGC product code.

I did indeed join Aardman after leaving TGC and had many wonderful years there. However I now run my own company full time, and in a strange turn of events, given my DBS/TGC origins, our core product is a game framework: Phaser

Even back when I first built the forums there used to be threads like this, asking why things were dying, etc, etc. Yet this place somehow manages to remain alive and healthy despite all this. And some part of me thinks it always will.

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BatVink

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 12:44

Quote: "Even back when I first built the forums there used to be threads like this, asking why things were dying, etc, etc. Yet this place somehow manages to remain alive and healthy despite all this. And some part of me thinks it always will."

The God of Apollo has been summoned, and it is decreed that the forum shall live forever.

Oops, did I think that out loud?

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Digital Awakening

AGK Developer

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 13:05

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I think AppGameKit is quite good. With the new v2 compiler and IDE it has become even better. There are a few issues I would like to solved before 3D. Once those are solved I think it can really take off. With every update there are features added and problems solved and the things people have requested are added one by one. Paul is also quite active on the AppGameKit board now and that's always great. There have been some darker times but things are looking brighter and brighter.

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Green Gandalf

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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.

Posted: 17th Sep 2014 13:55

Can someone clarify something for me?

On a related thread VanB said Mike Johnson and Paul Johnston were brothers (note the surname

). And now on this thread BatVink is referring to Mike Johnston as having left. I thought it was Mike Johnson who left and I've always assumed he was unrelated to Paul Johnston.

Are there in fact two people around, i.e. Mike Johnston and Mike Johnson?

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BatVink

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 14:12

Quote: "BatVink is referring to Mike Johnston"

I think it was Clonkex who said that, not me. It is Mike Johnson who left. Paul Johnston is not related.

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Clonkex

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 14:37

Quote: "Even back when I first built the forums"

You created the forums?? Awesome! These are my favourite forums of all time, both in terms of design and of content

Quote: "Yet this place somehow manages to remain alive and healthy despite all this. And some part of me thinks it always will."

It'll stay alive if I can help it

Quote: "I think it was Clonkex who said that, not me."

Indeed I did, whoops

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baxslash

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 14:50

Ha ha! I got Ravey and Davey mixed up... sorry guys

I must have looked up your profile when Ravey left then. That explains why I got confused, I thought Ravey was like a shortened version of Richard Davey

well, I've made dumber mistakes than that before...

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Richard Davey

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 15:15

Quote: "You created the forums?? Awesome! These are my favourite forums of all time, both in terms of design and of content"

Yup. Today I guess they're getting a bit long in the tooth - for example if you're not logged in, when you do so it doesn't return you to the forum thread you were on. Or things like when you get an email notification, it doesn't take you to that actual message in the thread. Little things like that still annoy me

But when we first released them 12 years ago, they were pretty damn cutting edge! and I'm proud they're even still running (although I know have been updated with badges, etc).

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BatVink

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 16:14 Edited at: 17th Sep 2014 16:15

Quote: "I thought Ravey was like a shortened version of Richard Davey"

Isn't is obvious that Ravey is short for Dave Milton?

Just like Dave is short for Rodney
And Kate is short for Bob.

Quote: "I'm proud they're even still running"

...and have never been hacked

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Green Gandalf

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 16:58

Looks like we're suffering from collective confusion today.

No wonder the forum is struggling.

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baxslash

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 17:59

Ha

You see I was thinking "Dave Milton" but when I checked his LinkedIn profile a while after he left he was still down as working for TGC... confusing for someone like me with a rubbish memory anyway. Barely spoke to some of these guys either which didn't help although I think Dave started the "Hide It Find It" app I finished off. All too confusing these forum names. I forget my own name sometimes!

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BatVink

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Posted: 17th Sep 2014 18:51

Baxslash, I remember your name is Frank because it's the same as mine.

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Dark Java Dude 64

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Posted: 18th Sep 2014 00:19

I remember my name is Jeffrey because I have the same name as me.

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bitJericho

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Posted: 18th Sep 2014 02:07

Quote: "Yup. Today I guess they're getting a bit long in the tooth "

I've used all the other php forums out there including vanilla which is used for the FPSC stuff and this forum is still quite superior.

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Green Gandalf

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Posted: 18th Sep 2014 02:16

Quote: "I've used all the other php forums out there including vanilla which is used for the FPSC stuff and this forum is still quite superior."

Certainly one of the best I've tried.

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Clonkex

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Posted: 18th Sep 2014 02:33

Quote: " for example if you're not logged in, when you do so it doesn't return you to the forum thread you were on. Or things like when you get an email notification, it doesn't take you to that actual message in the thread."

They annoy all of us, Rich, not just you

Quote: "I'm proud they're even still running"

So you should be! When I first joined these forums, I liked the layout and design so much that I went searching for Apollo Forums, but came up with nothing. For years I've just assumed that Apollo must have been some old forum software (like phpBB) that died out and was no longer available. It never occurred to me that it was built specifically for TGC

Quote: "I remember my name is Jeffrey because I have the same name as me."

lol

Quote: "this forum is still quite superior."

Quote: "Certainly one of the best I've tried.

"

100% agreed! Also one of the most unique forums I've ever been to. Definitely has its own character. It's why I feel it's such a shame that The Next is giving it such a modern, high-contrast, messy feeling (no offence intended). The live forums have a tight, crisp, clean, and above all, consistent feeling.

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Richard Davey

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Posted: 18th Sep 2014 02:46

http://www.photonstorm.com/game-development/welcome-to-the-darkforge-an-archive-of-all-my-old-darkbasic-code

I can understand why TGC would want to update them. I mean visually they look seriously dated - but I do completely agree: they just work. Threads display cleanly and load quickly. For the very purpose of actually having a threaded discussion they're spot-on. I still think there are features from modern forums that could be borrowed for here (@ replies would be lovely), but hey, such is life.

Also I posted this today if anyone cares

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Ortu

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Location: Austin, TX

Posted: 18th Sep 2014 04:45

Quote: "So you should be! When I first joined these forums, I liked the layout and design so much that I went searching for Apollo Forums, but came up with nothing. For years I've just assumed that Apollo must have been some old forum software (like phpBB) that died out and was no longer available. It never occurred to me that it was built specifically for TGC"

ha! same here. I was interested in using them a while back, went looking for 'apollo forum software' and turned up empty. I guess it was when The Next started updating them that I realized they were unique and specifically for TGC.

These days, the skin is dated, but they just work. They display well and consistently across every browser and device, desktop and mobile that I use, with none of the weird post input issues that I frequently run across on other software with my android tablet.

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Dark Java Dude 64

Community Leader

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Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere

Posted: 18th Sep 2014 05:33

Boom. That's an idea. TGC could go into the forum software business.

Sarcastic smiley aside, I actually do think that would be neat; the live forum proves that TGC is able. But then if Rich left, would TGC be any good for that?

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Clonkex

Forum Vice President

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Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia

Posted: 18th Sep 2014 08:38

Quote: "I mean visually they look seriously dated"

Quote: "These days, the skin is dated"

I disagree completely. This look is actually back in a big way, now called pixelart. Look at this:

Live

Beta

Now which one is neater and looks better? IMO the first one. I might ask The Next why he decided the whole thing should be taller in the beta forums. Right now, it's my biggest gripe. My problems with the beta forum:

The font is taller (and I prefer the live forums font anyway), the buttons are taller, the gaps between messages is bigger, the gaps between message and signature is bigger, the buttons are all an extremely outdated shiny-curvy look (sure they're shiny-curvy on the live forums, but they're much smaller and inconspicuous, and besides that, the look fits with the overall style of the website), the contrast is horrific on the posting box, and OH the Moderator Functions text! Bright orange and bright blue?!

Good

Bad

/rant

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Richard Davey

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Location: On the Jupiter Probe

Posted: 18th Sep 2014 13:14 Edited at: 18th Sep 2014 13:15

If I was going to redesign this forum I would remove all the buttons in the divider bars and hide them behind the post authors name (probably as a modal or similar). They are what I'd call "low priority" links these days imho (email, msn messenger and ICQ ffs!).

I'd also remove a few of the horizontal lines, as they're a bit much in places. And align them where possible, i.e. the ones under the author name and the Posted by date. You could knock back a few things as well, not to remove, just to tone down the contrast in the colours used.

Overall I'd keep the font sizes and message box heights the same though. The reason we designed them so small in the first place is because threads on the forum used to get SO long, it just worked and let you read more, quicker.

Mostly though I'd fix things like the way embedding large images blows out the width of the container, simple stuff that would have a big impact. I'd improve the Reply box as well so the text options had keyboard short-cuts. I was always quite pleased with the way you can just highlight text and click Quote, but actually it needs a 'quote' button below the full message too.

Ahh... so many ideas

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Green Gandalf

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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.

Posted: 18th Sep 2014 13:31

Quote: "I'd also remove a few of the horizontal lines, as they're a bit much in places."

No - they help add structure and aid visibility. Artistic effects have their place I'm sure but the most important thing for me is readability and simplicity both of which the present forum style has in spades.

Quote: "And align them where possible, i.e. the ones under the author name and the Posted by date."

Agreed - but then I'd never noticed it till you just mentioned it. It really doesn't pay to be too picky over details when something plainly works.

Quote: "Mostly though I'd fix things like the way embedding large images blows out the width of the container, simple stuff that would have a big impact."

Yes, that feature is annoying.

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Digital Awakening

AGK Developer

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Location: Sweden

Posted: 18th Sep 2014 14:24 Edited at: 18th Sep 2014 14:29

Quote: "I was always quite pleased with the way you can just highlight text and click Quote"

That is what I miss the most in other forums. I love it!

What I don't like about this forum is that the link to the newest post doesn't work at all. And it should not go to the newest post, it should go to the newest unread post. Maybe this was the intention? But it still only takes me to the first page. This leads to posts at the very bottom of a page, of a multi page thread, is often missed by users. Clicking on a thread in the list of boards also takes me to the first page. Should be newest unread.

As soon as you visit a thread it marks it as read which also adds to this problem. I don't think it should be marked as read until you exit the thread. Also thread navigation is poor. Most forums allow the users to open a thread to a specific page. Not super useful though so I don't miss it. However, navigating between pages once you are inside the thread is horrible. A next and back button for page navigation would be awesome. As well as a row of page numbers to select from without using a dropdown menu and a go button.

Also, I get no notifications for personal messages.

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Richard Davey

Retired Moderator

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Location: On the Jupiter Probe

Posted: 18th Sep 2014 15:10

I built all of those features into a new version of Apollo which was sadly never released here. Basically it wasn't finished in time before I left TGC. The code was later used on all of the Aardman web sites, but has since gone from those too.

Farewell Apollo 3, farewell

Also I'm kinda proud of the fact that the smileys on here were created by Greg at Dark Project Studios, back when he was very first starting out in the design world. And quite frankly they are still some of the best forum smileys out there. I've always loved them and see them ALL over the web, where-ever I go. Which is kinda neat

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The Zoq2

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Location: Linköping, Sweden

Posted: 18th Sep 2014 21:10

Quote: "
What I don't like about this forum is that the link to the newest post doesn't work at all. And it should not go to the newest post, it should go to the newest unread post"

That's how it works for me. I click "newest post" and it takes me to the first unread blue post. Sometimes all the images load and stretch the page afterwards but unless there are a ton of big images, it works fine. The newest post feature is the main feature I miss in most other forums.

Quote: " However, navigating between pages once you are inside the thread is horrible. A next and back button for page navigation would be awesome"

Those are there. There is a "Previous", "Top" "Home" and post button underneath all the posts to the left and "Search" and "next" on the right. The could probably be put closer to the rest of the navigation stuff though

(also, that's on the betaforum but I think I have seen the next and previous buttons on the live version to)

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy

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Digital Awakening

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Posted: 18th Sep 2014 21:49 Edited at: 18th Sep 2014 21:49

Quote: "That's how it works for me. I click "newest post" and it takes me to the first unread blue post. Sometimes all the images load and stretch the page afterwards but unless there are a ton of big images, it works fine. The newest post feature is the main feature I miss in most other forums."

That has never worked for me!

Quote: "Those are there. There is a "Previous", "Top" "Home" and post button underneath all the posts to the left and "Search" and "next" on the right. The could probably be put closer to the rest of the navigation stuff though (also, that's on the betaforum but I think I have seen the next and previous buttons on the live version to)"

I thought those navigated between threads. I think they used to. Or at least I have used forums that did that. And positioning could be better.

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Green Gandalf

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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.

Posted: 18th Sep 2014 22:16 Edited at: 18th Sep 2014 22:17

Quote: "But it still only takes me to the first page."

Works fine for me. Always takes me to the oldest unread post which is usually exactly what I want not the newest post strictly speaking. The only exception is when the poster is on post moderation so the post doesn't show. In my opinion a post which isn't viewable shouldn't be detected as the newest post. Somewhat confusing.

Quote: "I thought those navigated between threads. I think they used to"

Nope. When viewing a thread they take you to the next page in the thread. Try it and you'll see.

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Digital Awakening

AGK Developer

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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 00:11

Quote: "Works fine for me. Always takes me to the oldest unread post which is usually exactly what I want not the newest post strictly speaking. The only exception is when the poster is on post moderation so the post doesn't show. In my opinion a post which isn't viewable shouldn't be detected as the newest post. Somewhat confusing."

Just tried on a few threads. Worked once on a 1 page thread but the others gave me the first post. Is it because I use Firefox?

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Clonkex

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Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia

Posted: 19th Sep 2014 02:59 Edited at: 19th Sep 2014 03:02

Quote: "If I was going to redesign this forum I would remove all the buttons in the divider bars and hide them behind the post authors name (probably as a modal or similar). They are what I'd call "low priority" links these days imho (email, msn messenger and ICQ ffs!)."

That could be a good idea, especially given it's currently confusing as to which profile the buttons belong.

Quote: "Overall I'd keep the font sizes and message box heights the same though."

That's what I'm saying. The beta forums changed that.

Quote: "Mostly though I'd fix things like the way embedding large images blows out the width of the container"

That specific issue is fixed in the beta forums.

Quote: "No - they help add structure and aid visibility. Artistic effects have their place I'm sure but the most important thing for me is readability and simplicity both of which the present forum style has in spades."

100% agreed!

Quote: "Also thread navigation is poor."

Whaaat...

Quote: "A next and back button for page navigation would be awesome."

It does have those... how have you not seen them?

Quote: "Also, I get no notifications for personal messages."

No one does, and it's terrible.

Quote: "And quite frankly they are still some of the best forum smileys out there. I've always loved them"

200% agree with you! Best smileys evaaaaaaaa!

Quote: "Or at least I have used forums that did that."

Yeah, and other forums are really dumb. Not once have I ever thought, "Yes, I am happy that clicking the button that I thought went to the next page took me to another thread and confused the heck out of me". Really hate those next/previous thread buttons on other forums.

Quote: "Is it because I use Firefox?"

Probably. It works fine for me, even if I never use it. This tends to be my forum workflow:

- Go to Yahoo email tab in Chrome
- Notice TGC Forum (14) [<-- unread emails in TGC Forum folder]
- Open folder, start at bottom of unread emails, moving up, opening one of each replied-to thread in a tab in YahooMail
- Without reading the contents (I prefer to wait until I have the thread itself open

), go through each Yahoo tab quickly and open the thread's link in a new Chrome tab
- Close all Yahoo tabs
- Shift-select all TGC Forum Chrome tabs and drag them to create a new window
- Quickly run through each tab and send the thread to the last page, unless the last page has increased since I visited the thread last, in which case I manually send it the second-from-last page to make sure I don't miss any posts
- Start at one tab, read all new posts (by memory since the blue "new-post" indicator disappears after viewing the first post), start quoting and replying
- Half-way through replying, get distracted and go on to the next tab
- Eventually finish each thread and close all

Additionally, since becoming a mod:

- Open, from bookmarks, the Mods Lounge board and the post approval list to quickly check for any new threads or posts in both
- Open the Geek Culture board to check for new threads to which I'm not subscribed

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Green Gandalf

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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.

Posted: 19th Sep 2014 13:09

Quote: "Is it because I use Firefox?"

Possibly.

I use IE and haven't encountered that particular problem.

Quote: "especially given it's currently confusing as to which profile the buttons belong"

It's never confused me - but now you mention it I see your point. Perhaps a slightly thicker line marking the boundary between posts would work. For me though the existing boundaries are quite well-defined and clear.

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bitJericho

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Location: United States

Posted: 19th Sep 2014 15:18