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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Implications of TGC's GameGuru product and AGK development?

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unlikely
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 15:32 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2015 15:35
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Quote: "The calls for 3D-animation out-of-the-box are naive."


I strongly disagree with that. I personally don't have a use for the 3D portion of AppGameKit (and I wish that TGC would drop it with AppGameKit to focus on awesomizing 2D more). However, if they are going to do 3D at all, animation is a must! I can't think of a single serious 3D engine that does not support some kind of animated mesh format. Even if it's something simple, like baked vertex animation, or somesuch thing, and not Unity's Mechanim (or whatever it's called) system.

Quote: " 3D is not really 3D. It's a way of manipulating 2D planes in such a way that a 3D illusion is created."


That's kind of a silly distinction, right? Everything in a 3D engine is specified in 3D coordinates. That is about as 3D as you're gonna get in a digital, virtual, system with a flat 2D display... True, the graphics card draws 2D planes with various transformations, but it has LOTS of optimizations for 3D math and such.....

If you are saying that 2D engines are actually 3D... that's true for an engine using a modern accelerated graphics API like OpenGL or DirectX. However, it's not unequivocally the case. It's still possible to do direct 2D blitting.

Using AppGameKit v2 T1 + T2
Systems: Primary: Mac OS X 10.10
Secondary: Windows 7
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Polaraul
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 16:15
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Now AppGameKit is out of Kickstarter and no longer the débutante on Steam, 3D functionality feels like one of the areas where the product is stagnating.

I was not Kickstarter backer, but looking over the Kickstarter page there were many 3D functions promised. Support for animated objects, importing .X files and even a terrain system.

I have every respect for the comments made by Jim, but I believe it is wrong to call AppGameKit users expectations for 3D naive. As Dark Basic is no longer being developed, and AppGameKit does support Windows, this product should support a fully featured 3D command set. If AppGameKit is being pitched as a serious development tool, then this is what is expected.

www.polaraul.com
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roujesky
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 17:34
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AlienMenace:
How do you know they are working on the debugger? I can't figure out what they are working on.
I am with PeterJBE. I am waiting on the debugger that was promised and is well over a year late.
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SpecTre
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 17:58
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Hmmm didn't think about the asset store.

Still think at £11 it is too cheap but lets hope it makes a mint with the assets!

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 18:20 Edited at: 6th Mar 2015 03:55
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Quote: "I can\'t understand why they are working on the AppGameKit debugger before the 3D animation commands. It completely and totally boggles my mind. This is a game creation language without a key game-creating components but yet they put their limited time and resources towards a step through debugger... what?"

Agreed. PLEASE do the 3d animations next.

However, if TGC is working on the debugger first, then it must be because they think it will be beneficial for other features being developed down the road.
In which case, I will happily wait, and that is what it comes down to, is waiting, because it is not all going to happen at once.
I love TGC's products and they have never let me down in the past, so I trust their judgment when it comes to the development of their products.
They know far more about what is going on behind the scenes than I do.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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3d point in space
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 18:42 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2015 18:44
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It comes down to money I belive why they develop new products. Every company does it, even the game creators. There marketing plan is like most companies to obtain an income on new products.
Game Guru is such a product that will try and find users that have less experence in programming.

This product wont be the last product they make for game creators. They still have not added a forum for it yet, but I think that will not be to far off.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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Alien Menace
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 19:14 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2015 19:30
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Quote: "How do you know they are working on the debugger? I can't figure out what they are working on. "


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=210287&b=41

They promised to setup a daily coding journal for AGK2 the last time AGK2 work secretly stopped. Unfortunately, they didn't follow with that though. Surprise.

Quote: "(3) The calls for 3D-animation out-of-the-box are naive. The reason big games companies employ programmers is that there is no simple approach to this problem: it's a complex interaction between object models and meshes. OpenGL has NO support built in for 3D animation. The .obj model has NO support for 3D animation. The .X format does, but it still requires a huge amount of programming, including skipping key-frame "tracks" on the fly and other programmer and processor-intensive stuff."


Naive? Please. Kickstarter stretch goal #3 is defined as follows...

Quote: "
AGK currently has over a hundred 3D commands but it still needs some essential features. We'll expand the AppGameKit 3D universe if we meet this stretch goal;

Support for animated objects
Bone based animations will be supported.

Importing .X files
The .x file format will be supported so you can load in your animated 3D objects and display them within your AppGameKit applications.

Vertex data manipulation
This will provide direct access to the 3D model data.

Terrain system
In just a few commands you'll be able to create a 3D terrain as the basis of your 3D game world.
"


Not to mention that GLBASIC (which is also cross-platform) has had this kind of 3D functionality for years...

Quote: "
Complete 3D engine
Simple to Use- You do NOT need a PhD in Mathematics for 3D!
Supports GLSL - Shaders
Real Time Shadows
Dot3 Bump Mapping
Cel-Shading (Cartoon Rendering)
Smooth 3D Animations
Loading and Saving user Defined Objects
Works with all Common 3D Formats (3ds, md2, md3, ac3d, blender, x)
Automatic Light-Normal Calculation
Alpha Blending
Collision Detection
Light Mapping
Real-Time Lighting
File Exporter for AC3D and Blender3D
Binary and ASCII file formats
"


Apps published: 4
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SpecTre
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 19:45
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Quote: "They still have not added a forum for it yet, but I think that will not be to far off."


https://forum.game-guru.com/

Think Gameguru has a strong forum and flash site.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 22:48
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I'm sorry. I was obviously completely wrong. 3D animation is terribly easy and should have been there from the start. Looking forward to some Deus-X clones when we get it!

Onwards and sometimes upwards
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Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 23:45
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I just don't want AppGameKit to be left behind as older TGC products have been. So many have been forgotten about and its starting to leave a trend.

http://crazyprogrammerproductions.webs.com/
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xCept
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2015 00:18
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Quote: "I'm sorry. I was obviously completely wrong. 3D animation is terribly easy and should have been there from the start. Looking forward to some Deus-X clones when we get it!"

Sarcasm aside, I don't think anyone was suggesting that implementing animated 3D object support into a GL-based development engine is an easy task. It is, however, an essential component to AppGameKit V2 to complete its incomplete 3D command-set, as promised by TGC on Kickstarter. (There are also free libraries like Cal3D that can presumably simplify this process).

You seem to carry the notion that 3D serves no purpose for mobile development due to the restrictive hardware, and that the only people interested in it have visions of creating full-blown first person shooters. When used correctly, 3D has been proven valuable on mobile, some of the highest grossing games including Temple Run and Crossy Road use 3D with animated models effectively.

All of the other 3D-capable development platforms I am aware of support 3D animations. Since TGC crossed the bridge from 2D to 3D it is their responsibility to provide the fundamental support of bone-based animations. There are sophisticated ways to achieve animated models currently but not in the manner that the "easy game development" of AppGameKit promises.
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Alien Menace
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2015 00:31
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Quote: "I'm sorry. I was obviously completely wrong. 3D animation is terribly easy and should have been there from the start. Looking forward to some Deus-X clones when we get it!"


Apology accepted.

Apps published: 4
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3d point in space
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2015 06:24
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wow you can use threedstudio to actually load models in game guru. that is why it so popular. If you can model and code up those models then you can sell them.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2015 11:06
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It's worth noting that GLBasic has not been updated since January 2014.

I downloaded it and looked at the 3D animation routines. How powerful they are I don't know. It appears to be a "go to frame" call.

What is interesting is that it outputs C++ source and then compiles it. It also allows in-line C++ in the editor, which makes extensions fairly easy. If AppGameKit had an option to do that it would be fun!

I can't find any examples of anything other than a tank made of of geometric objects using the 3D animation. Any pointers?

Onwards and sometimes upwards
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arnzzz
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 01:01 Edited at: 5th Mar 2015 01:04
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id love to see more people working on AGKv2, or maybe open it up in some way to be extended by us the users.

This product will NEVER be bleeding edge in anything as one man cannot possibly do it all plus keep it relevant.

Think of all the Facebook and admob stuff, or any extensions (or whatever they are called), its ALWAYS going to be WAY WAY behind any current innovation those things have

Its sad because this could be IMHO better than Corona or any other such product if some key decisions are made about its future.

I love what it is, but I really do worry for its future.

I dont see any great games being made with GameGuru, but AGKv2 very much so can produce those IF it becomes what it could be.
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Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 02:18
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Quote: "I love what it is, but I really do worry for its future.

I dont see any great games being made with GameGuru, but AGKv2 very much so can produce those IF it becomes what it could be. "


TGC does not care what games can be made...They only care what Sells.

Obviously AppGameKit is not selling so they cannot put as much work into it and they bit off more than they could chew at Kick Starter Making promises. (Im sure they will get around to it, but don't hold your breath.)

GameGuru is selling because it is easy to use...Smash your head on the keyboard and spam click your mouse....You have a FPS ready to deploy in a matter of minutes.

Agk takes effort and imagination and in todays age the world consists of lazy creatures.

http://crazyprogrammerproductions.webs.com/
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bjadams
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 12:15
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Wasn't DBpro made opensource and taken over by the person behind the PureBasic project, years ago?

About AGK2... it's a perfect solution for the one man show who wants to do his own games for fun, as a side project, not as a main income

If you want to do big projects, get Unity5, it's for free now
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Polaraul
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 15:01
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I have only been using AGK2 since January, but even before the sudden name change and Steam release of FPS Creator Reloaded (aka GameGuru), AGK2 kind of felt like a product that was starting to fall into limbo. Maybe it is just my perception of things, but AGK2 just doesn't feel like a product that is going anywhere fast.

So far this year there have been two updates, both of which for all intents and purposes have been maintenance releases. Yes, Linux support was added, but I don't think that was even a Kickstarter Goal.

There is dedicated website for AGK2, but there are no dedicated forums there, no development blog and help files which are inaccurate (despite being flagged on this and the Steam forums). Some functions of the website, i.e. The Gallery, are even bust (despite being flagged on this forum). It could be argued that there is a development blog in these forums, but reading that 'blog', I never really feel connected to the future of AGK2. I don't expect to take valuable time away from Devs to create blog posts, however, even a weekly update would instil more confidence. As an example, take a look at Lee's FPS Creator Reloaded blog. Also, there is so much more AGK2 needs to even stay current. This all seems a big ask with what, I get the impression, is a very small team tasked with AGK2 development. Also, when I look at the many issues being reported over on the Steam forum for GameGuru, am I so convinced that internal resources will not be diverted to help solve those issues.

As I have stated before, TGC seem to have a pattern of Kickstarter then Steam release these days. After that initial burst of interest and Steam sales, things just then seem to slow down. Will this also be true of GameGuru in a month or two? TGC's inventory is filled with products that are no longer developed, will AGK2 also become one of these?

www.polaraul.com
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arnzzz
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 18:50
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Quote: "As I have stated before, TGC seem to have a pattern of Kickstarter then Steam release these days. After that initial burst of interest and Steam sales, things just then seem to slow down. Will this also be true of GameGuru in a month or two? TGC's inventory is filled with products that are no longer developed, will AGK2 also become one of these?"


I really hope not as AGKv2 could be great
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SpecTre
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 19:12
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Well this is from the Steam post that Lee Bamber wrote after someone raising concerns there:

Quote: "Here at TGC, we primarily developed AppGameKit as something we desperately needed for our own development purposes. A language that was cross-platform, easy to use and could produce a wide variety of apps very quickly. We also wanted to introduce some concepts that we had not seen in other tools such as instant broadcasting to multiple devices and a resolution/input agnostic approach to app creation. It remains our premiere technology I.P that we intend to base all our future projects on over the next decade, and will continue to be developed as the world of technology evolves and expands. if you look at our track record, we maintained our last programming language (DarkBasicPro) for over seven years before AppGameKit took over, and you only have to do a Google search to see how DBP material has almost saturated searches on coding games in BASIC If you're looking for confidence, we've been developing game creation tools for 15 years now, a VERY long time in the games industry and a testiment to our enthustiasm for the subject matter. As posted above, we are always looking for feedback and critique, so if there is a specific tutorial you are looking for, or an area you would like news on, just let us know here and we're more than happy to answer. Thanks again for your feedback, and I am happy to learn if anyone else feels this way so we can address your concerns."


Picking out this from it:
Quote: "It remains our premiere technology I.P that we intend to base all our future projects on over the next decade, and will continue to be developed as the world of technology evolves and expands."


So we'll see, just a shame this forum is not updated by Lee also to ease things.

Quote: "There is dedicated website for AGK2, but there are no dedicated forums there"


Maybe it might be an idea now that the AppGameKit site is seemingly being updated that the forum moves over to there for AppGameKit like GameGuru????

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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arnzzz
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 19:27
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Yes we should have a dedicated forum. And a proper dev blog, the updates in the way of a forum post are good but could be better.

I have no experience with extending the functionality of a language or product like this (Facebook Libraries, Admob, Google Play Games, SQLite etc). Can some one with some experience tell me how big of a task that would be and IF it would ultimately make this product much more valuable to your average Joe developer deciding which tool they wish to invest their very important and limited time into if TGC could bake it into AGKv2 to make this stuff more doable.
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3d point in space
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 19:30
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Quote: "It outputs c++"
that is very usefull, but I still have not bought it yet and played with it. I think I like the c++ export option. I wonder if it includes comments on what each line means.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 19:35
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Quote: "I really hope not as AGKv2 could be great "

AGK is great! It's better than great, it's awesome!
I think a lot of people cannot see the forest for the trees here.
Yes, there is a lot of potential for AppGameKit to grow, but it is a powerful tool as it is now.
Maybe if we knock some socks off with the commands we have, then we will gather enough new interest in AppGameKit to force a play by TGC.
In other words, if you guys think TGC is just in it for the money, but you want to see them focus more on AppGameKit, then we need AppGameKit to be in greater demand.
Then they will have more AppGameKit sales, and AppGameKit will demand the attention it deserves.
I am not suggesting that we go out and try to be free salesmen for AppGameKit, but I am saying that we could focus more on making the public see how great AppGameKit is by developing more apps today rather than worrying about what tomorrow may bring as none of us know that answer.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 19:55
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[quote]I wonder if it includes comments on what each line means.

Ha ha ha!

This is one of the liveliest forums there is, and yet people are moaning that there isn't another one. Why the hell do we need another forum?

AGK is not the solution to everything, but what it does it does very well indeed. It's very low-cost - in my opinion too low-cost. It's designed for small, casual, games, and at that it excels. Nobody is ever going to write a AAA game in BASIC; the fact that you can release a game with high-performance graphics using the out-of-the-box facilities is impressive.

Be supportive. Work within the confines, because you have to with any compiler or games system. Nothing does the work for you.

Onwards and sometimes upwards
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SpecTre
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 20:25
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Quote: "This is one of the liveliest forums there is, and yet people are moaning that there isn't another one."


I think what is meant is not a new forum but the AppGameKit forum moving to the AppGameKit site which makes sense really like the GameGuru website, which looks pretty cool and professional.

The AppGameKit website is a bit 50/50, half looking ok and half broke and not updated. I have mentioned on another post about the Gallery for example which is still broke and no answer.

Quote: "AGK is not the solution to everything, but what it does it does very well indeed. It's very low-cost - in my opinion too low-cost."


Yes, yes and yes.
AGK and as I mentioned before Gameguru feels like sometimes is given away.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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3d point in space
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 21:26
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I tested it out and I don't even know how to publish games with it lol. I thought it would make an executable file but it didn't. I think AGk is a better product then game guru. It may not have as good as graphics, but at least you can publish the game on a market with out buying the program to play someone's game.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 22:33
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3d point in space...

Really!? It is so easy to find...

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3d point in space
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 01:42 Edited at: 6th Mar 2015 01:46
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Yea I found it I just didn't know where the exe was compiling to. I just got it lol. I guess I am a noob at that program. I do not know if I like the program though. It looks like it will make games about of the same type, and most people tell you to download there game. I wonder if they will make it so that you can make games that are different then what I see on the post. It looks like a good product.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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SpecTre
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 02:21
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Quote: "Agk takes effort and imagination and in todays age the world consists of lazy creatures."


Well I think you have hit the nail well and firmly on the head. People these days are lazy creatures and coding is too much effort.
Gameguru has it's place but not with me as I prefer to get a bit more involved and creative with things.

I have got to say I hope gameguru makes a lot of money for tgc in order to further developed AGK. Having now just bought Gameguru on a whim it must be said that now I have seen the program for myself, I will not be using it again until there is a good function or something to transfer the maps to AGK.
I simply don't like it. It runs far too slow on a normal PC and is too child like for my liking.
At £11 I don't think I have wasted my money because it may come in handy in the future for AGK.

What I have noticed however is gameguru is steam only. I wonder if AppGameKit will go the same way?
This doesn't bother me, however what does is the forums getting split.
As mentioned before, it would probably be good if the AppGameKit forum moved over to the AppGameKit side of the website, once fixed! But having forums split all over the place doesn't seem right.
How can we keep a check on what's going on when it is fragmented.
It also seems to me that if you post something on Steam then you can get an answer from one of the TGC DEV team but if you try on here you have no chance for about a month or 2 if your are lucky or if you are a mod.
This may be because Steam is more in the public eye but it doesn't seem right and is quite frustrating at times.

Anyway I am really getting fed up with how things are starting to get fragmented all over the place as it makes life difficult.
I am relatively new to AppGameKit however have previously owned DBPro so am not new to TGC.
AGK is a great product and I am not bothered with the rush for updates regarding the debugger or 3d commands as at the moment I have no use for them.
I have just released an APP on the google store and am really proud of this and thankful how AppGameKit has let me do this quite easily and cheaply!
But, please TGC get your act together with the things that matter.
Get everything in one place and on a website that works, whether this be AppGameKit or steam.
Let people who have AGK2 use the pascal version.
Give the people who have bought AppGameKit from the website a key for the steam version so we can get on the damn forum and start caring about the friendly people on this forum that actually buy your products.

I will now get ready for the moaning and at how TGC are doing their best, however the forum situation being all over the place and a website that doesn't even work and is out of date are very real basics that can be solved within a few hours. Especially when people are telling you that it is broke and being ignored.
Nobody on this site wants to see AppGameKit being dumped and we all really like the product, I even posted earlier a quote from Lee Bamber regarding plans for AppGameKit but this is very amateur it has got to be said.

End of moan and ready to be slated, however after spending over 2 hours at trying to get the Steam forum to work which should have been simple after Rick saying in a post, that is what he wanted us to do and then after buying Gameguru it let me post then I have had enough.

I am now going to get on with my project which I have had help along the way from the AppGameKit community and get ready for the onslaught after this post but it has got to be said that this is only what people are already thinking.

Its a damn shame people are getting so fed up when TGC have got such a great product with such great potential if you would only listen to the community!

Thanks and bye.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 03:50 Edited at: 6th Mar 2015 04:33
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Quote: "It may not have as good as graphics..."

We can come close with what we have.

Quote: "People these days are lazy creatures "

Here is what I have been playing with today... (see attached)

Turning FPSC 3D into AppGameKit 2D

This is one of Bond1's characters from FPSC's Egyptian Pack. (set up here for side scrolling)
I have converted 16 animations into 16 frames each. (using Model-2-Sprite)
All of these sprite sheets together total less than 3mb.
Could be half as many animations for half the size.
It's gonna look better with its props in game.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1

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SpecTre
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 05:03
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Nice work there as usual Conjured.
What did you use to capture the screen recording?

I am looking at doing some recordings of my app but can't find a decent program yet.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Location: Nirvana
Posted: 6th Mar 2015 05:20
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Quote: "What did you use to capture the screen recording?"

Fraps
I just set the capture rate down to 16 frames per second.
I always set it to whatever frame rate the animation is set at.
It seems to play nicer that way.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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xCept
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 07:45
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Quote: "Its sad because this could be IMHO better than Corona or any other such product if some key decisions are made about its future."

I agree, and still prefer AppGameKit over all the other app development frameworks I've used. Unfortunately, AppGameKit has had a checkered development history and its future remains a concern to me.

AGK launched in fall 2011 and was continually updated for its first few months as Lee and the team worked steadfastly on improving it while pushing out constant updates. Just months later, TGC suddenly shifted focus to develop Freedom Engine, a subscription-based Web version of AGK. This was done without any community feedback and took everyone by surprise. Freedom Engine was a failed initiative that consumed the better part of a year at TGC whereby AppGameKit itself took a back seat with little to no updates for months at a time. In the midst of the Freedom Engine debacle, suddenly TGC announced plans to redo FPS Creator. In late-2012 Lee abandoned AppGameKit development to focus on Reloaded/GameGuru--and with him went other TGC members over the next 2.5 years leaving only Paul to carry the AppGameKit torch.

I just wish that AppGameKit had taken a more central focus at TGC from 2012-2014 to complete its feature set. I am assuming sales were not as great as expected thus the decision to focus on Freedom Engine then Reloaded, and why a Kickstarter was required to help fund further development of AGK. I take comfort from Lee's statement about AppGameKit on Steam and that TGC currently has some top UK apps developed in AGK. Still, I fear the long delays between AppGameKit updates and how the third party libraries will be maintained by just a single developer. Without open-sourcing or developing some third party extensibility support, if Paul were to stop working on AppGameKit we'd be in trouble!
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3d point in space
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 07:49 Edited at: 6th Mar 2015 08:19
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oh it is already usefull with the low poly 3d objects that people have put in the store. I don't know how well those objects transfer to agk. Still it would be nice to use their 3d objects for agk. Well the low poly objects. Well I tested it on a few objects that I converted to obj format, and some of the downloads have to many polys.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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BatVink
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 15:35
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Quote: "Give the people who have bought AppGameKit from the website a key for the steam version"


Go to your TGC account page...My Products. At the top is a banner that says "You can view your Steam Keys here"...click it and watch the magic happen


Quote: "I am looking at doing some recordings of my app but can't find a decent program yet"


Open Broadcaster Software is amazing. I used to use Fraps, but have found this so much better. And it's free.

https://obsproject.com/

Setup is slightly more complex, but the control you get is fantastic. I'm now publishing straight to Youtube instead of post-editing, for videos to show people how to do things quickly.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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SpecTre
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 16:24
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Quote: "Go to your TGC account page...My Products. At the top is a banner that says "You can view your Steam Keys here"...click it and watch the magic happen"


I have just updated another post re this but there is nothing in mine! It seems my account then is broken along with the website but I know it is not just me that doesn't have a Steam key.
If TGC got their act together with the site I think this would stop a lot of frustration.

I think I need to email Rick as I am getting no answer from devs on here.

Cheers.

Quote: "Open Broadcaster Software is amazing."


Cheers for that will give it a bash.

Quote: "I'm now publishing straight to Youtube"


This is just what I need to do.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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MrValentine
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 6th Mar 2015 16:29
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spectrepaul, I recall mention in an email with something to do with Steam and your account that you have to do manually... Also your sig is massive...

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SpecTre
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 17:27
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I have emailed Rick so will see what I get back.

What is wrong with my signature? It's not that long

The Amiga and Amos were great!
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 18:57
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Quote: "What is wrong with my signature? It's not that long "


ROFL

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
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SpecTre
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 19:47
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haha

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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Jambo B
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 20:13
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Sorry to stray a little off topic here, but...

@spectrepaul: I remember PaintPot on the Amiga, I think. Very nice program which some of my colleagues used in schools back in the day. Easy to use, and the kids loved it. Comedy moment: do I recall correctly that Amiga Format (a.k.a. Amiga Doormat) reviewed it and had to issue an apology because a copywriter had left some placeholder text - "Type some **** in here" above the review? Pretty egregious mistake, given that AF was aimed at kids!

Cheers,

James
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 23:06
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James - I don't think A (or any other) Format was actually aimed at kids. It just read like that!

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
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3d point in space
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Posted: 7th Mar 2015 05:20
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I tried https://obsproject.com/, and I like fraps better more easy to use. the only problem with fraps is it only records vids if they use directx or opengl.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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BatVink
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Posted: 7th Mar 2015 11:59
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Quote: "and I like fraps better more easy to use"


Yes, it is easier to use out of the box.
What I would suggest though, is spending 20 minutes creating a profile in OBS and saving it. After that, it's one click to record anything. It also does a much better job of compressing the video, FRAPs doesn't do any compression, so you have to convert it afterwards.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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MikeHart
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Posted: 7th Mar 2015 12:20
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Quote: "What I would suggest though, is spending 20 minutes creating a profile in OBS and saving it."


On windows that is. The OSX version records audio fine but the video hangs. I couldn't get it to function normally.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Using AGK2 Tier 1
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SpecTre
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Posted: 7th Mar 2015 13:02
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Quote: "Comedy moment: do I recall correctly that Amiga Format (a.k.a. Amiga Doormat) reviewed it and had to issue an apology because a copywriter had left some placeholder text - "Type some **** in here" above the review? Pretty egregious mistake, given that AF was aimed at kids!"


Yes I did that on the Amiga along with about 5 or 6 other titles, it was quite funny when it was in Amiga format and I remember getting a phone call off someone apologising. I saw the funny side of it but I don't think Prisms Software were impressed.

Found this link
http://amr.abime.net/trivia_17

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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BatVink
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Posted: 8th Mar 2015 13:15
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Quote: "The OSX version records audio fine but the video hangs. I couldn't get it to function normally"


Thanks for the heads-up, I was going to use it next week at work on a Mac. Could have been a minor disaster.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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Adrian
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Posted: 31st Mar 2015 14:45
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GameGuru originally didn't make its kickstarter target. People wern't interested in funding another FPSC version and Lee teased us with the possibility of DarkBasic Pro Elite. Apparently, someone stumped up all the money for what has become GameGuru.
The only way you are going to get updates for DBPro and AppGameKit is to drop a huge bag of cash on their desktop and get them to work for you privately.

$11 for GG may be cheap, but it's more than Unreal Engine 4 (free), Unity 5 (free) and Source 2 (free - soon I believe).
Can't wait to see the thousands of naff clones the GG will produce.

I'm a DBPro programmer - I haven't moved over to AppGameKit as I don't believe it is as advanced as DBP is. There's talk that you'll get there eventually but I haven't seen much to convince me of that.

I feel sorry that you guys too are being abandoned as us DBPro users were.

I don't blame TGC, it's just a shame, that's all.
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baxslash
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Posted: 31st Mar 2015 15:31
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Thanks for the positive input Adrian I don't feel abandoned at all actually as AppGameKit (despite being behind schedule) is getting pretty regular updates.

I moved away from DBPro because when AppGameKit came along I saw the opportunity to make games for Android and iOS as well as Windows and Mac. For me that felt much more advanced than DBPro because it could continue to grow whereas DBPro had reached about the limit of its capabilities. I think that it is a much more intelligent business move to create a new product that can be adapted to change with the current market and work on multiple platforms than to stick with a single platform and a stagnant user-base (I included myself in that).

I remember seeing about half a dozen exciting games written in DBPro since about 2007 and much more than that in AppGameKit since it came out. 3D is way behind DBPro but 2D and other built in commands are way ahead.

I'm not keen on using GG but that's because I prefer to program rather than drag/drop but I don't see AppGameKit as being abandoned or neglected. Far from it.

Also Unreal and Unity are not completely free if you take a proper look (and could cost a LOT more). They are if you never want to make any decent money from them or make a completely professional game but otherwise (like most professional tools) you pay through the nose. I haven't checked Source 2 out but I imagine like the other two it'll be pretty similar. No company gives away its prime asset for free, trust me.

Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Adrian
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Posted: 31st Mar 2015 15:52 Edited at: 31st Mar 2015 16:05
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Quote: "Thanks for the positive input Adrian"

LOL - it does a bit grumpy doesn't it

Quote: "Unreal and Unity are not completely free if you take a proper look (and could cost a LOT more)."

Yes, I agree, but you have to be shipping rather a lot of copies of your program to do that.

Quote: " I saw the opportunity to make games for Android and iOS as well as Windows and Mac"

I can see the attraction in that, I have been considering such a move myself, but fear that it's going to go the same way DBPro has.
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