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AppGameKit Studio Chat / New Update not released

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Zaxxan
AGK Developer
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Posted: 11th Jun 2023 16:23
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@xCept it appears that a lot of AppGameKit users have purchased GGC and GGM products to support TGC, unfortunately that support looks like it may have been detrimental to AGK. There is a possibility that TGC think that GameGuru is actually more popular than it really is so I won't be purchasing anymore TGC products unless they are AppGameKit related.
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TamBam
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Posted: 12th Jun 2023 08:59
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Yes no need to create new AGK3 and the AGK2 & AppGameKit Studio is already ok for us , and no need to much more , but minimum need a maintenance update with google play console and Apple store . Else it's very much chance to remove our app from those store and also we can't submit new game to those store .

Take charge for some maintenance cost like $1 every month or you may charge $1 for monetization option (like admob or popular payment getaway ) and make this AppGameKit free .
I think it will be better . ( it's Just a suggestion) .


I am from India I make AppGameKit and admob youtube video from last 2 years, because AppGameKit is not free so all my users ask me free solution and force me to make unity videos .
But I am stick with AppGameKit because I am using IT from 12 years and before I use Dark Basic .

So It's just a suggestion , you run your company from 1999 so you know much more better than me/us
But still If you make it free then everyone start using It and at a point every one need admob and payment gateway and that time they must buy ( DLC Admob or others payment option ) and you make money .


Thankyou

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EdzUp
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Posted: 12th Jun 2023 09:58
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@TamBam: I can understand the need for a DLC purchase option and yes its a good idea it certainly gets a +1 from me I wouldnt release AppGameKit for free though as to be honest you can make a lot of things with AppGameKit before buying any of the DLC associated with it. One gripe I have always had is the 'bytecode' file I think DB Classic and DBPro handled it better by merging it into the executable with media etc (if required) this meant that when releasing games we didnt release the code file associated with it and made the product look more professional.

One thing is for sure the more silence we have regarding the issues TGC face the more people will start to look elsewhere at alternative systems and this slowly will eat away at the long term users of the systems and will in the end prove detrimental for TGC and AppGameKit as a while.
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James H
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Posted: 12th Jun 2023 12:43
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@TamBam the moment they make it free is the moment you should look for a replacement language for your product(s)...they will be under no obligation to continue to provide updates, they will likely provide some updates initially if only to avoid bad PR, but nothing beyond that just as they did with DBPro. As you can already see, updates are less than before. Let history be our teacher on this one, their where many in the DBPro community who wanted it free purely so they could make changes they felt where significant, only to find that not all was made open source and the changes they wanted to make could not be made because of this. Making it free did nothing to increase the number of users, literally the exact opposite took place, neither where any improvements of significance made by the community, some tried with some element of success but ultimately failed.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 13th Jun 2023 08:11 Edited at: 13th Jun 2023 09:05
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Making AGKS free\open would be its death just like with DB\pro.
I do understand in some countrys 90 dollars might be much but often it only cost 30 dollars on steam or even just 2 dollars if you grab it from Humble Bundle along with other packages.

I dont think price is here an issue even for low income countrys.

Updates,a roadmap, making it a full development kit , that could change its future. Free would kill agk.
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TamBam
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Posted: 6th Jul 2023 20:13
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Still it's 7th July
Any news on update maintenance ?
Thankyou
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TamBam
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Posted: 6th Jul 2023 20:40
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@Dark_ITheI _Angel
Money is not a problems for me and others but mostly 90% want to go with free option at starting and also when it's unknows to them .
I buy DBP year 2007
Buy AppGameKit Classic 2012-2013 not remember from TGC website
Buy AppGameKit Studio 2019 also from TGC website
I almost buy all DLCS even everything is not necessary for me , But just buy all DLC to Love and support TGC

I told make it free but make Important DLC as purchase option
Because if it's will be free then everyone start using it and when they habituated then they can't leave AppGameKit and they must buy DLC

Example 1
one person use free AppGameKit and make games publish on playstore with admob banner ads , and he/she start earning.
but for more or high earning he needs interstitial and reward ads and here admob interstitial and Reward ads comes with DLCs
and at this point that person can't leave AppGameKit and he must buy DLC .

Example 2
Make google play inn-app purchase free
but stripe , paypal, Razorpay payment gateway as purchase DLC

and so on ..

Again It's just as my opinion you all TGC guys make our life very easy on game dev field from 1999 so you all know better how to run your company .
Thankyou Again .





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Qube_
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Posted: 6th Jul 2023 23:26 Edited at: 6th Jul 2023 23:27
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This minimal amount of communication is highly frustrating from TGC and really does make you lose faith in a product. We've no idea if AppGameKit Studio is going to get any updates in the short term let alone long term?. I mean look how long the breaking iOS issue has been left unfixed for now.

I'm certainly reluctant to start any new project at the moment as I've no idea if the next OS update for MacOS, Windows or iPhone is going to break AppGameKit Studio and then we're all left in limbo for months hoping that a fix will come. Come on TGC, just spill the beans on what's happening, what you are actually doing and future plans if any? We're all grown ups and can take it.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 7th Jul 2023 04:14 Edited at: 7th Jul 2023 04:27
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Here am with TGC, Mac and iphone users are ... and shouldnt be supported. (Joke,...but i still dont like them)

@TamBam

To be honest i still dont think free would work.
I highly doubt it will make enough money for tgc to keep supporting it,i doubt they could make an eco system where they get a % for every DLC,besides the ones they create...would have to become a huge eco system to live from it.
Blender and GODOT are different beast and Epic and Unity are on a different level.

I think the problem is the path they took,their business model and not being flexible enough to go with the times plus staying just a programming lenguage. But thats a whole different topic and its all speculation of course.

But i understand your point and not trying to battle it, just talking!
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Foerchner Foerchner
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Posted: 7th Jul 2023 05:45
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I have tried now the 2d editor in agks and its beautiful,just include scene and call every sprite. Sadly i am not into 2d much.
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MikeHart
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Posted: 7th Jul 2023 06:52
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@Qube: one of their mods here mentioned in another topic that their plan is to do updates to the steam version only as it is easier to update. So if you own a license to that version you might have a look over there.
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TamBam
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Posted: 7th Jul 2023 06:59
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@MikeHart
I have both version TGC website downloadable and steam .
Hope update comes soon .
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TamBam
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Posted: 7th Jul 2023 07:12
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@Dark_ITheI _Angel
I know that was a small amount but think if 100K people buy like me then its looks big .
But for this you need good and big audience and audience comes with a freemium model of business .
First you give free then force to buy DLCs.

Like Unity , Godot , etc
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 7th Jul 2023 08:01 Edited at: 7th Jul 2023 15:24
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TGC don't make any money on AppGameKit and it has to be funded through other projects which is why the support is minimal and the updates are so infrequent. The driving apps are the most successful part of the business and make a profit followed by gameguru max and gameguru.

TGC don't have the time, resource or inclination to fully support AppGameKit as we would like them to.

Now that Paul has left the only other TGC member likely to work on AppGameKit is Orvillian and he usually works on the driving apps which is where the money is. I believe they are still committed to providing 4 updates a year though so all is not lost.

Update: I've just received a notification of the new Game Creators newsletter and quite worryingly there is no actual news about AppGameKit in it only a dev blog.
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James H
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Posted: 7th Jul 2023 16:33
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@Zaxxan there was news on AGK...the news was that the guest dev(Neil aka forum user Zappo) is also waiting on bug fixes!!
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xCept
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Posted: 7th Jul 2023 17:12 Edited at: 7th Jul 2023 17:15
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I was disappointed to see no mention of AGK's current status in the latest newsletter. Not even to clarify the current staff delegation to it (or lack thereof).

Especially since they already acknowledged the iOS and Android problems with it in their May issue 2+ months ago.

Quote: "May 5, 2023: Apple has changed their requirements for iOS apps so we’re updating both AppGameKit Studio and AppGameKit Classic later this month to ensure users can continue to submit updates and new apps on iOS"
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 7th Jul 2023 17:54 Edited at: 7th Jul 2023 18:59
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@James H, I read the bit about the bug fixes lol

Looks like they are burying their heads in the sand hoping that we won't notice.
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Qube_
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Posted: 7th Jul 2023 23:08
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@MikeHart I don't have the Steam license version and so wouldn't purchase again if that's the route it's going. Also I'd hope the Steam version can be launched without Steam having to run too. An app to run an app
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Zigi
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Posted: 8th Jul 2023 09:03
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I am certain if they choose to update the Steam version only they are going to give free steam keys to everyone. But if they choose to do so, it would make more sense to release a new version on Steam only and force everyone to buy it again.
I can imagine the reason we see lack of updates is because they are working on a new version instead. They did mentioned once on Discord, someone is working on a new AGKPlayer powered with MonoGame. The fact it is developed by someone else doesn't mean TGC has no intention to publish it as a new product.

But since, there is silence and Paul left TGC (????) it is more likely this is the end of the road. The only reason TGC maintain it is their Driving Theory Test App but they have no obligation to share updates. Not sure how many people know this but DBP also had a new DX10 powered version they used to create FPSC X10 and later FPSC Reloaded/GG and they never shared this version of DBP but I remember Lee once asked on the forum if the community would be interested to purchase DBP X10. The answer was no and so DBP X10 was never released to the public but it was and it is already exist.

I'm sorry if this is how AppGameKit ends. Currently there is very little market for code only tools and that tiny market is filled with free frameworks and libraries. Even if you prefer the simplicity of AppGameKit Tier1, there are free alternatives.

Developing their own programming language, framework, library and develop their own visual game maker using their own programming language just makes so much sense. Especially after they created their own Vulkan renderer for AppGameKit I don't understand why TGC didn't go down on this route. Imagine if GG Max was powered with AppGameKit and we would have all the advanced terrain, physics, AI and VR features in AGK. Would be so amazing. If this is the end of AppGameKit I still hope they are going to release some sort of GGMax SDK.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 8th Jul 2023 09:55 Edited at: 8th Jul 2023 10:02
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I don't think it is the end of AppGameKit although I do think it will only be released on Steam and only receive critical updates and feature updates that are required by the driving apps.

I have been told a few times now that AppGameKit does not make money, I accept this but TGC use AppGameKit to develop their driving apps which have sold millions of copies so surely AppGameKit makes money indirectly? Without AppGameKit there would be no driving apps.
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James H
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Posted: 8th Jul 2023 10:04
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They did release the X10 version of DBP, it was called the X10 modders kit for the purpose of compiling FPSCX10, I still have it somewhere. It was basically same IDE, no help, previously built plugins did not work(they only had control over some plugins anyway), just bare bones really. I recall testing the X10 wibbly wobbly effect and seeing if a X9 effect ran in the same window - as one was supposed to be fixed function and the other not. Of course this release was after the community was polled to see if we would essentially pay again. Couldn't give an exact date as I came across it years after by accident, in fact wasn't many years after I came across it when the download site was taken down altogether.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 9th Jul 2023 22:43 Edited at: 9th Jul 2023 22:57
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I guess the lgbtq joke was not ok, sometimes i cross the line.. Fully ok to get edited, better than a Ban, I take pride on those years

@Understood, but maybe a little too late to find out?
AM Certain they will keep updating AGKS, i just dont know where the road is heading or even if there is a road, so everyone need to valuate their investment wich mostly is the time you spend mastering it.
Lets try to give them some time and see what happens.
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xCept
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Posted: 12th Jul 2023 04:05
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Quote: "Imagine if GG Max was powered with AppGameKit and we would have all the advanced terrain, physics, AI and VR features in AGK."


This was always my dream vision. Both products would've benefited greatly if AppGameKit had been the backbone. GG would had also been able to integrate cross-platform capabilities. The reviews for AppGameKit and AppGameKit Studio are very positive on Steam, while it's a mixed bag for GG/GG:Max.
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Zigi
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Posted: 12th Jul 2023 21:32 Edited at: 12th Jul 2023 21:34
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"xCept" wrote: "Both products would've benefited greatly if AppGameKit had been the backbone"

Yes I agree. I remember it was considered but Lee mentioned somewhere, maybe on Discord the Vulkan renderer was "not powerful enough" which I did find weird considering they just spent a bunch of resources on their own Vulkan renderer and it is "not powerful enough". Why they didn't go with an open-source one like they did with GGMax I have no idea. I was keep recommending to Lee but he constantly insisted it is better to have their own engine so they are 100% in control and able to fix bugs them selfs, they don't need to wait for anyone. Then he turned around and used an open-source engine for GGMax right after they just finished their Vulkan renderer.

I am still hoping they are going to release some sort of coding tool using GGMax as a base and using the Lua programming language maybe.
Yes it would mean the new coding tool is Windows/DirectX only but at this point I think it could make a lot of sense but at the same time their most successful product the Driving Theory Test App is on mobile so they certainly need to continue maintain their cross-platform engine too.
This is the most annoying thing about AppGameKit, we just don't know, we never know, we can only hope, dream and speculate.
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XanthorXIII
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Posted: 13th Jul 2023 19:00
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I’m going to just come out and say that the future of AppGameKit doesn’t seem great. Lee’s comments on https://youtu.be/7ucCcsi4aoA at mark 30:00 about Dark Basic is very disheartening to hear and it seems like he doesn’t see a future in programming. At this point in time my trust in TGC has gone to 0. It’s funny that he doesn’t see a future in programming but yet here he is building a tool using programming for others to use. That seems like a bit of Irony to me. I’m thinking it’s going to be time to move on to something else if TGC can’t get it’s act together and get some of these crippling issues fixed.
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PartTimeCoder
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Posted: 14th Jul 2023 14:07
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No I get Lee's point, its not that people don't want to code, there are plenty of coders out there the problem is people that want to make games don't want to code, or.... want half the work done for them Unity, Unreal and Godot are undoubted the leaders in the game making scene whereas pure code solutions like AppGameKit, LibGDX, LOVE and raylib have smaller, niche, code oriented following.... out of them only AppGameKit is the paid solution, and bear in mind Lee has the market data to support his claims, admittedly only from a TGC perspective but if his bottom line says GG sells and AppGameKit don't... what is he to do?

And those that DO want to code, well, we are the odd balls in this equation, of the many great frameworks out there we chose AppGameKit and TGC honor our commitment to their product by keeping is relevant, API and store requirements, beyond that they have no obligation, at the very lease they "keep the lights on"
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XanthorXIII
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Posted: 16th Jul 2023 05:47
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Isn’t that a problem if the mentality is they’re just doing this to keep the lights on? For a product that was only released 3 - 4 years ago? Shouldn’t the mentality be let’s make sure our customers stay committed to AppGameKit and TGC by making sure we put out regular updates that keeps them going? That should be the goal but it seems like they’ve really given up on that especially if Paul has left. Then there is the no mention of AppGameKit in the newsletter and then letting us twist out here in the wind for a couple of months with no word. That’s why I’m saying it’s not looking good for AppGameKit here since Lee made those comments just a short while ago. Lee should do the right thing to tell us what the status is, what the plans are if any and not keep us in the dark. He is the CEO of TGC after all. How about Rick? Has anyone heard from him in a while? Maybe he could update us on what is going on.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 16th Jul 2023 09:18
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@XanthorXIII, Rick posted on the tier 1 discord channel yesterday day asking for help converting a text object to a sprite. If he his still using AppGameKit it might be a good sign???
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Zigi
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Posted: 16th Jul 2023 10:03 Edited at: 16th Jul 2023 10:08
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Quote: "Shouldn’t the mentality be let’s make sure our customers stay committed to AppGameKit and TGC by making sure we put out regular updates that keeps them going?"

The way I see it, the coding community is extremely divided. Some people prefer 2D others prefer 3D and some prefer VR and AR. Some prefer to target desktop only, others also want to target mobile and web. Some prefer high level frameworks that include basic building blocks like sprites, camera, collision detection, asset management and a simple programming language like BASIC, Lua, Python and others prefer a low level library that include only the bare minimum like drawing commands, file system access and they want to code them selfs everything from scratch using a programming language like C++,C#, Java and others prefer a visual game editing experience with light scripting and there are those who don't even want to script just drag 'n drop yet somehow they ended up using a coding tool and complained about no editors.

TGC listened to everyone and AppGameKit tried to please all groups with 2D, 3D, AR, VR, Desktop and mobile support, even Web support when nobody on the planet play games in the web browser. Tier1 BASIC, Tier2 C++, Studio, GameGuruLoader and a relatively low £70 one time fee and to allow community made free wrappers for Lua, Python, Java, C#. But it was not enough to keep people around and to attract new people.

After the release of Studio Rick mentioned on the forum TGC can no longer afford to develop AppGameKit for a one time fee and to release free updates and they are considering a subscription model. We had a huge argument about it on the forum which ended with people getting banned and topics usually immediately get locked when we mention anything regarding what TGC should do. We are not in the position to tell them what to do because they did listen to us and it didn't worked.

If AppGameKit was my product, at this point, I would try to make the core free and open-source and offer extras on top for a subscription fee like the IDE the Player, mobile support, monetisation features and the community could take care of the maintenance of other bits for free. Or I would scale back and consider to support Windows only or mobile only.
But please, do not respond to this idea I just mentioned because moderators going to lock the topic immediately. We are not in the position to discuss what TGC should be doing. We all have our different needs, ideas and preference and this is why TGC is in an extremely difficult position.

The bottom line is, TGC can't please everyone especially not for free. TGC should make money with every single update they release but they don't. So at this point we should indeed be greateful for free maintenance updates and we should not blame TGC for lack of updates, they did everything they could to please this extremely divided community for years for price of a cup of cafe.
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XanthorXIII
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Posted: 16th Jul 2023 15:34
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I just want to see TGC continue to make AppGameKit and whatever they need to do to keep it going, I'm fine with it. I don’t know another tool where you can broadcast the game to mobile to test your changes so quickly. That’s why I like using AGK.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 16th Jul 2023 16:25
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@XanthorXIII, you can broadcast to a device with Defold but it's not as nice to develop with as AppGameKit is. I have been using Defold for a few months but I have started to use AppGameKit again as its a nicer experience. Just waiting to see what happens like everyone else now though.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 17th Jul 2023 16:37 Edited at: 17th Jul 2023 16:50
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A new version of Studio has been released today on Steam and the TGC site. The change log hasn't been updated but according to the news release only the IOS issue has been fixed on this update. It's nice to see that the TGC versions are still been released
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 17th Jul 2023 16:46
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https://www.appgamekit.com/news/post/appgamekit-studio-20230717-update-released
AGK Resource Directory
Made with AppGameKit on Itch.io
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Furord
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Posted: 17th Jul 2023 17:10
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great news, will have to try it.
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TamBam
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Posted: 17th Jul 2023 17:16
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Thank-You for the Update
Version 2023.07.17
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