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Geek Culture / Copyright violation! Can't stress this enough...

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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 21:01 Edited at: 16th Feb 2004 21:06
I don't want to name names, but recently there have been several counts of people from both this forum and other forums stealing our games and claiming them as their own.

This happened again recently in the DarkBasic Pro forum, so you can go there and check it out yourself if you want to.

Anyways, I can't stress it enough to make sure you put in your copyright information not just in the media, but contained in the game executable, in *several* places. Many people, if they try hard enough, can hack it with a hex editor, but it takes some work. Also I would recommend putting some kind of hidden easter egg in the game, where you do a certain thing, like a cheat code, and another copyright message will come up. This will further add protection to your games.

One way to keep people from hex editing your executable would be to put some junk characters in your name. For example, in the hidden easter egg, you can have some fun with the lettering:

C-o-p-y-r-i-g-h-t J@k3 J3nS3n, 2004

Many people may not know what that means, but if you know, "Copyright Jake Jensen, 2004" then it becomes clear. The way hex editors work is you can search for a certain string using some sort of find feature. Many times the executable is too large to manually look for certain strings, so people using a simple find won't find your hidden code.

Just something I thought I should make aware. If anyone has any other ideas to further protect your executable, let's hear them!

Good day


http://www.jeku.com/audio/
Ancient Chinese proverb: Man who runs behind car gets exhausted.
Gery
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 21:07
khmmm... hack it...
if sombody hack my game, i go to america, searc it, and i kick her face very hard... so dont try
Gery
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 21:09
i cant belive that many pepoles (americans of course) are so rats, to stole a game....
Jeku
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 21:14
I would think that this problem is not just American, but it exists all over the world.


http://www.jeku.com/audio/
Ancient Chinese proverb: Man who runs behind car gets exhausted.
MikeS
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 21:32
Thanks for the heads up Jeku. Yea, I've posted many times my copyright and my name in my games. After working so hard, I'd hate to see someone just take my stuff.
----------------------
It's not just America. It's far worse in other countries.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
Damokles
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 21:41 Edited at: 16th Feb 2004 21:46
I know a trick to protect it :
instead of getting

copyright$ = "Copyright Jake Jensen, 2004"
PRINT copyright$

You can write the copyright$ with all ASC(caracters)-1

Then doing somthing like that :

FOR x = 1 TO LEN(copyright$)
newcopyright$ = newcopyright$ + CHR$(ASC(mid$(copyright$,x))+1)
NEXT x
PRINT copyright$



"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
Jeku
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 21:48
Damokles - Good idea! That is even better


http://www.jeku.com/audio/
Ancient Chinese proverb: Man who runs behind car gets exhausted.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 21:52
Is this the Virtual Pets game that CMC 101 was making? I have put it to the top, or bumped it if you like.

Pincho.

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 22:12
I've had copyright issues myself recently. I'm not aware of anyone stealing any of my games although I sometimes spot a bit of Banshee media in the odd game. I dont think anyone could steal a Banshee game because they are already very well known.

The key problem I have recently is people selling Banshee games on compilation CD's... and the #"&! are not giving any of their profit to us!

Freeware does not meen I give away a lisence for some #b*"()!% to rip off the team. It makes me sick to think of someone else earning a living off what the team do out of love in the spare time .

I'm currently giving an amnesty period, then I am sending out desist orders, and if necessary i'll take legal advise on it but that would cost me money... Why do crooks always win?


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Rob K
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 22:18
It is unfair, but there are solutions.

If your code is closed source, use some very simple routine to encrypt the title image for example, a title image which contains your name.

If your code is open source, attach a simple license with the source clearly stating that others may not claim that they produced it. While this obviously won't stop people, if you inform webmasters or mods of DarkBASIC sites (including this one), they can delete the offending threads as the source was clearly not credit-less public domain.


BlueGUI-Windows UI Plugin
Ian T
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Posted: 16th Feb 2004 22:18
Guys--

DBP allows you to build in and encrypt your media with your .exes. Do this for freeware games! Also contain a .jpg slash screen saying who you are, the date of copyright, your website, and that your game IS NOT LICENCED FOR RESALE UNDER ANY SITUATION. I can't stress that enough!!! I can't imagine anyone will have the nerve to pack your game in a compilation CD then, and even if they do, the customers very well might report it to you. The same methods of protection go for shareware and commercial products.

Code on! Don't let the scum get you down!

(CMC 101 in particular)

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Philip
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 15:49
Alternatively if you have lots and lots of money and would like a good lawyer, speak to me. I can recommend a few.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P1.3ghz / 384 megs / GeForce MX 5200 128meg / WinXP home
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 16:17 Edited at: 17th Feb 2004 16:18
oOo some CMC 101 bashing

I am gonna get comfortable and order some pizza, nothing better than bashing a 'seemingly brainless' [a phrase i will regret later] copycat.

Its a bit like cock fighting, but without the clarret.

Whats so good about living anywho?
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 17:06 Edited at: 17th Feb 2004 17:07
Cock fighting? Never tried it, don't think I ever will!
Is it a bit like fencing?

Benjamin
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 17:14
O_O. Its where male pidgeons fight eachother or something

Always have, never will =)
ReD_eYe
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 18:06
you actually live in a town where they have cock fights?
WOW!


GO TO THE ETERNAL DESTINY FORUMS!!! http://forums.eternaldestinyonline.com
Do it now!!!
Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 18:24
Roosters, but it's off track: I can't code well, but is there a way you can make the game to where nothing will work without that title screen staying the same? if so, i'd try that but i don't know how to...

Take a look to the sky just before you die

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 18:34
it's illegal in the US, CMC, so they're breaking the law

Take a look to the sky just before you die

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Philip
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 18:37
They were a popular form of public entertainment in medievael England.

Sir Thomas More used to take his family to see them.

Sir Thomas More was beheaded by King Henry VIII.

Coincidence?

Philip

(An unlikely logical syllogism? Perhaps ...)

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P1.3ghz / 384 megs / GeForce MX 5200 128meg / WinXP home
Jeku
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 18:42
CMC - As long as you're posting here, what do you have to say for yourself? (Don't lie, we've heard it all.)


http://www.jeku.com/audio/
Ancient Chinese proverb: Man who runs behind car gets exhausted.
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 18:58
Cock Fighting is still popular amongst the gypsy community but is strictly illegal in the UK.

Thruxton in the UK has a race track, it would be amusing to think of there being no petrol stations there...

I would imagine a good way to protect yourself against this kind of problem is to include your credits outside of the string table by using ASCII values:

text 20,20,"Programmed by: "+chr$(n)+chr$(n)+chr$(n)+chr$(n)

Then all that would appear in the string table is "Programmed by:". You could also, if you dont have an ASCII table to hand just do one character under or over.

text 20,20,"Programmed by: "+chr$(asc("B")-1)+chr$(asc("M")+1)+chr$(asc("A")+3)+chr$(asc("Z")-1)


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
nrasool
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 19:01
Quote: "if you dont have an ASCII table "


Here is a website that provides you the table. http://www.asciitable.com/

May be an idea to bookmark it

A Good Programmer never blames his tools
Ian T
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 19:05
I doubt he has anything to say for himself... he's a petty liar and thief and he knows it.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Jeku
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 19:21
Good idea, Andy. That seems like a more logical way of doing things than using l33t speak

CMC - You sure have an easy time "glossing" over certain posts, don't you...


http://www.jeku.com/audio/
Ancient Chinese proverb: Man who runs behind car gets exhausted.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 20:11
back on topic:

There are tools out there to Obfuscate your exes so loser hacks can't hex edit them and alter stuff. I have one that comes with Visual Studio .NET but from what I read there are also independent ones out there as well. May be worth a look on google.

-RUST-
"What the... Mooooooooooo!"
Mentor
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 21:01
you could load a bitmap with the credits on it and a detailed background and then throughout your code (if you have a bit of time to spare) do...

set current bitmap credits_screen
if point(82,106)<>rgb(234,127,345) then end <<<<this is a value from a random location on the screen hardcoded into your code
set current bitmap 0

then any alteration of the title screen would cause the code to fall back into the desktop, you would use different locations each time and scatter them all through the code, in the main loop, in reload routines, in the save game, in load game, in the the menu etc, but keep them all checking different parts of the credits screen, that way any alteration will make the game unstable , you could do the same with other parts of the game, like graphics and sounds that people may alter to personalise their games and make them more like something they would do, just check for a byte or a filesize altering for eg.

Mentor.

System spec : Pentium 3.0Ghz, 512MB DDR, 2x160Gb HD (using icewave hd coolers ), DVD RW/CD RW (all modes), multimedia front panel, 6 way surround sound, ATI radeon 9800Pro 128mb.
Gery
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 21:07
EHH DONT DO THIS!

some videocard drivers displaying BAD point colors!!!!!!!
zircher
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 21:54
Better to examine the image as a memblock, no need to worry about the user's screen resolution/scaling, mip mapping, or color depth.

Some lightweight cyphers and a CRC check is all that you really need to stop/detect tampering. When that happens, you display a set of instructions on how to report the thief.
--
TAZ

UnderLord
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 22:02
Quote: "i cant belive that many pepoles (americans of course) are so rats, to stole a game.... "


Yeah thanks for the sterotype....maybe you should look in your own damn country too?

The search continues.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 22:07
Geri always says stuff about the Americans, it's a waste of time responding to it.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 23:22
Geri and quite a few other trolls on these boards amount to nothing more than a waste of sperm.

-RUST-
"What the... Mooooooooooo!"
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 23:28
Quote: "Yeah thanks for the sterotype....maybe you should look in your own damn country too?"


We exported all the people with criminal genes to Australia several centuries ago. We no longer have any crime in the UK.

Really.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
jrowe
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 23:51
Trs80Model2 posted a very useful snippet, on the thread about CMC's theft, on the DBpro board.

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Preston C
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Posted: 17th Feb 2004 23:57
Quote: "i cant belive that many pepoles (americans of course) are so rats, to stole a game.... "


Quote: "Yeah thanks for the sterotype....maybe you should look in your own damn country too?"


Its not a stereotype in my school. Most of the people in my school who have the best games usually have pirated copies, some of them even sell them too

The good thing though is (this is a fact) that they're all from New York...so they're just giving New York a bad rep (please keep in mind, I dont think all of New York is bad, its just most of the people that moved here from New York brough along the bad groups from New York )

Cheers,
Preston


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 18th Feb 2004 00:04


-RUST-
"What the... Mooooooooooo!"
Wik
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Posted: 18th Feb 2004 00:17 Edited at: 18th Feb 2004 00:17
HAHA


Preston C
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Posted: 18th Feb 2004 00:27
Quote: ""


I forgot to add...I mean no offense to anyone here from New York(except if you're a pirating theif of an ass...then may giant chickens peck at you until not even your theiving reputation exists)

Cheers,
Preston


Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 128MB
CattleRustler
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Posted: 18th Feb 2004 00:58


-RUST-
"What the... Mooooooooooo!"
dark coder
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Posted: 18th Feb 2004 01:27
heres another idea,

what if you had a file called copyright.txt and you had your copright stuffs in there,

and the game checks if it has been removed or edited in a anyway, if it has been deleted then make it pop up a message saying, keep that copyright right where it was, and so on and make it so they cant play the game, of course this could be edited so make it run the function with say the collision code,

so if they edit the flag using a hex editor or anything, the collision wont work, therefore they couldent or will be detured from using it in there products

Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 18th Feb 2004 02:14
Hey, CMC 101 is from NY...

Take a look to the sky just before you die

---For Whom The Bell Tolls, Metallica
CattleRustler
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Posted: 18th Feb 2004 03:07
anything north of The Bronx doesn't count as NY

-RUST-
"What the... Mooooooooooo!"
Ian T
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Posted: 18th Feb 2004 04:18
Clever idea hex coder. It touches on one of my anti-piracy ideas.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
mm0zct
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Posted: 20th Feb 2004 22:22
they didn't use any hex editing protection on halo, many people (including myself) have succesfully hacked halo to edit skins etc.

but i would recomend making all your copyright as ascii as seen above, but then check later that it is the same a a string version of the copyright etc. if all is ok then put it im a popup message at the end of you game, very easy in dbp, displaying all the copyright stuff and so on, then it is difficult to hack out and iff not ok then do some damage to the game.

http://www.larinar.tk
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Neophyte
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Posted: 20th Feb 2004 22:38
@Everyone

Hate to burst peoples' bubbles here but most of the methods mentioned here will only stop rank amatuers. Anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of assembly and a free debugger can quite easily get around them.

Your best bet is to display you copyright with something other than ascii characters like say a bitmap with images of characters on it. Then use that bitmap for all of your text throughout the game so modifing it will affect gameplay.

But even the routine to display the copyright can be easily by passed with a simply unconditional jmp.

I'd just like to point out that you can stop amatuers, and the lazy, but you can't stop pros or even intermediates. So lets not have anyone building a false sense of security with the methods mentioned now.
mm0zct
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Posted: 21st Feb 2004 01:27
i didn't say it would stop it, i didn't even say it would prevent an amateur, i said it would make it more difficult which would in turn put off amateurs, but i doubt anyone can really stop the pros if the pros really want to do something.

http://www.larinar.tk
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 21st Feb 2004 02:02
that thing... someone said abut checking for alterations to a background image... surely you could just do that with a small company logo in the corner of teh screen

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Ian T
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Posted: 21st Feb 2004 02:27
@Neophyte-> That's possible, but it's also important to mention that compiled DBP excecutables are rather a mess of DLL calls, and they're probaly, because of that, going to be significantly harder to crack.

It is really best to use an image though...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Neophyte
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Posted: 21st Feb 2004 02:38
@mm0zct

"i didn't say it would stop it, i didn't even say it would prevent an amateur, i said it would make it more difficult which would in turn put off amateurs,"

I never said you said all of those things. I just don't want anyone getting any false sense of security if they follow the advice given. Assembly isn't hard, and debuggers are free and/or cheap.

@Froogle

"someone said abut checking for alterations to a background image... surely you could just do that with a small company logo in the corner of teh screen"

The company logo could very easily be opened up in paint and modified to display nothing or some ther logo. Hence my recommendation to use text bitmaps that will be used thorough out your game. Messing with them will seriously mess with your game.

@Mouse

I haven't looked for myself, but all of those dll calls are probably easily by passed using any standard free debugger. Debuggers usually don't disassemble dlls unless you tell them to so if you were to just step thorough a program with a debugger it might actually be easier to find the important code.

Again, I haven't tried this myself as I really can't be bothered with it at this stage of development with my games so I might be wrong.
Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 21st Feb 2004 04:43
i know: assuming they can't code, just make a code so that if the copywright text is edited, then it won't work, and maybe to get into the coding you need a password.

Take a look to the sky just before you die

---For Whom The Bell Tolls, Metallica
Jeku
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Posted: 21st Feb 2004 11:58
Quote: "Your best bet is to display you copyright with something other than ascii characters like say a bitmap with images of characters on it. Then use that bitmap for all of your text throughout the game so modifing it will affect gameplay."


But then couldn't a pro just mess around with where the code actually calls each bitmapped character to make it display some other message or none at all? Then the rest of the game's characters would still look fine.

Like you said, there's obviously no 100% secure way--- otherwise the "real" game companies would have a way of stopping piracy by sticking hidden things in the executable just as some have suggested here.


http://www.jeku.com/audio/
Ancient Chinese proverb: Man who runs behind car gets exhausted.

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