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Program Announcements / Tokamak Physics Wrapper - now available!

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2004 22:27
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The Tokamak physics wrapper is now available on my site:
http://www.ericksonline.com

Have fun! I don't have too much documented yet. I am also STILL fighting some rotational problems. DBPro uses a Left-Handed coordinate system and Tokamak uses a right-handed system. I am trying to make the difference transparent to users through the wrapper.
So far, there are approximately 130 TPC commands. More will be happening soon.
If you have any questions, or write something cool and are willing to part with the source, please post it or e-mail me. It would be good to have a few more demos to show what this thing can do.

I have to *again* say thanks to Sweenie from the BB community. Without his wrapper, I wouldn't have got anywhere with mine.

Now... Let's see som demos.

Ron Erickson ~ a.k.a. WOLF

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hexGEAR
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2004 22:37
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all hail the wolf

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JimB
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2004 23:19
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I'll second that thanks for sharing your hard work WOLF it's much
appreciated.
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Xanatus
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Posted: 24th Feb 2004 01:35
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The wrapper is very cool. Iam just wondering why the program crashs if you use more than 50 entities in your demo.

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WOLFY
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Posted: 24th Feb 2004 01:49
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Thanks for the replies

@Xanatus
There are "set" commands found at the beginning of the program which are used to set up the simulator.
TOKs_SetRBCount is the number of rigid bodies available to the program (which is set to 50). If you change that, you must also change the TOKs_SetOverlappedPairsCount (Must be equal to (TotalBodies*(TotalBodies-1)/2) where TotalBodies eqauls rigid bodies plus animated bodies).
See the command reference.
Modify those and you should be good

Ron

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DEANO
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Posted: 24th Feb 2004 02:07
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This is very,very cool!!

"When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge."
-ALBERT EINSTEIN
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Dave J
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Posted: 24th Feb 2004 10:49
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Nice work. I look forward to seeing some great demos.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 24th Feb 2004 21:03
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Yeah! Rotational problems have been fixed!
...man does my head hurt

I'll probably upload the new version tomarrow. It is time to start some better testing on those joint commands.

Look for a new, much cooler, interactive demo soon!

Ron

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Xanatus
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Posted: 24th Feb 2004 21:27
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@wolfy

i tried:

TOKs_SetRBCount 100
TOKs_SetOverlappedPairsCount 100*(100-1)/2

but the entity cap is even so 50.

www.xanatus.com
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 24th Feb 2004 22:13
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OK...
Looks like I had a couple errors with the way I told you to do things.
First, all of the Set Simulator commands must come BEFORE the TOKs_CreateSim command, not after.

The other thing is that the formula that I gave above does not seem to be correct. It should be set equal to (Totalbodies * ((TotalBodies-1)/2)
I also had to play around with some of the other set commands. Here is what I used to get 100 RB's:


Sorry about the confusion. I've been spending SO much time on roatational problems that I haven't had a chance to dig into some of this stuff too much.

I must say that the demo looks mighty impressive with 100 objects. There is still very little slow down.

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IanM
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Posted: 25th Feb 2004 01:19
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About time

I think that this deserves a sticky

Just a quicky question ... why not compile the Tokamak library into your DLL? If you want to do this, just drop me an email and I can step you through it.

For free Plug-ins, source and the DBPro Interface library for Visual C++ 6 and .NET
http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
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WOLFY
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Posted: 25th Feb 2004 04:25
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Well...
I think it would end up going against the Tokamak licensing agreement if I did that. It says that it is free and can be used for any purpose except for another physics library. They also want people using Tokamak to download it from their site. So, nice idea. I'd love to do it because it would make it easier for everyone, but unfortunately, I don't think it is allowed.

Thanks for the Sticky.
Ron

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Kharnor
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Posted: 28th Feb 2004 01:21
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This is so cool. We're all dying to create our own porrasturvat-inspired games, but its a bit hard without knowing what any of the commands do. Bring on the documentation and the demos will roll in.

Keep up the good work, WOLF! (Is there a difference between WOLF and WOLFY?)

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -Albert Einstein
Current project: Parking Lot (puzzle game, 40% complete)
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WOLFY
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Posted: 28th Feb 2004 04:43
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I am the one and only WOLF.
I had another account on this forum that I lost the password to. At the time, there wasn't a way to recover the password. I was stuck making a new account and using the name WOLFY. Oh well, no big deal....

Documentation is coming. The big news though is that there is a new version of the warpper availbale at my site now. It fixes the rotation problems that were happening (hopefully).
http://www.ericksonline.com
Go get it!

Also, some demos have been showing up on the LLRGT forums if you want to check them out.
Go here:
http://www.dannywartnaby.co.uk/rgt/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=2432

Later,
Ron/WOLF/WOLFY

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DEANO
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Posted: 28th Feb 2004 04:56
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Your awesome wolf, thanks. Great work!!

"When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge."
-ALBERT EINSTEIN
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Proteus 1935
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Posted: 29th Feb 2004 03:07
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Nice work man ,now I can't donate any money but how about some bandwidth,need a mirror???

Currently coding: MAG
Recent coding: Video Capture Plug-in
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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 29th Feb 2004 04:31
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Here's something a friend of mine did. I thought that I'd post it as it shows another side to the wrapper. And it looks pretty good. Sorry if you think the code is a bit messy.
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WOLFY
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Posted: 29th Feb 2004 05:42
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Thanks for the offer Proteus. I'm ok for now. The download is still small and I shouldn't run into problems.

As I said on LLRGT, very cool demo Elemenop!

WOLF

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Nigel
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Posted: 29th Feb 2004 06:22
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Hey Wolf, I've been browsing thru the tokamak help, and noticed it can do terrain mesh/triangle mesh, does your wrapper support this or will support it in the future??
Thanks
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WOLFY
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Posted: 29th Feb 2004 08:00
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It does not at them moment. It is, however, one of the next things that I plan to add.

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Proteus 1935
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Posted: 29th Feb 2004 15:12
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Ok Just ask if you need

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adr
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2004 11:52
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Damn you WOLF, now I'm going to have to re-write my car physics to use this library.

I know you said you can't compile in the tokamak dll, but can we distribute the dll with our games? It's just a bit unprofessional to have to make people download the DLL from a third party site before being able to play the game. If we could plonk the DLL in with our downloads and credit as required, that'd be much better.

Cheers

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WOLFY
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2004 12:42
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adr,
I've been meaning to send an e-mail to IanM about exactly that. After I get the details from IanM about it, then I was going to e-mail the tokamak people and ask them if it was ok. As a developer, they want you to have to go to their site. They don't want your average gamer to be bothered. I'll see what I can do.

WOLF

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2004 23:15
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I posted this info in another thread, but this is the one most people have been looking at so I wanted to copy it here since it is relevant to the wrapper.

I am currently trying to get some rotation issues worked out.
The problem is not with the wrapper but with one bug in DBPro.
DBpro uses Euler angles for rotation. The commands themselves are not buggy as some people like to think. Euler angles are just hard to understand.
I've written the wrapper to also work with Euler angles, so you can easily just dump the angles from DBpro to the wrapper and all of your objects are oriented properly. Easy as pie.
The one problem comes when you use the PITCH, ROLL, TURN commands in DBPro. When you use those commands it screws up the Euler angles that DBPro returns. It is a bug and hopefully will be fixed in U6.
I don't want to wait for that though
I'm in the process of writing another dll to not only fix the PITCH, ROLL, TURN problems, but also make everyones life a LOT easier dealing with rotations.
It will feature (so far):
-Global Rotation (the way people expect it to work)
-Local Rotation (getting around the bug in DBpro)
-Rotation around a given vector (all kinds of stuff you can do with this)
-Matrix information for Euler rotation (for all you advanced users)
The dll will not be free, but will be VERY cheap. Hopefully it will solve a lot of headaches for a lot of people. If there is anything else that you would like to see DB rotations capable of, let me know. I'll try to add it to the upcoming dll.

In the mean time I am also going to continue working on the wrapper. Right now I am working on some documentation. I have the simulation and animated body commands finished now. Next on the plate for the wrapper is static mesh support (usefull for terrains).

Ron ~ WOLF

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Philip
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Posted: 4th Mar 2004 07:28
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Wolf

A DLL dealing with the rotation angle problems from the freeflight commands would be very helpful. I strongly encourage it.

There is a dead easy work-around using the existing DBPro commands though. What you do is you attach two limbs to the object, the first one unit in front and the second one unit either to the right or left. These are then effectively normalized vectors. You can get the third dimension by getting the cross product of both normalized vectors. Then you can apply an acos of the dot product of these vectors compared to the normalized cardinal axis vectors to get the Euler X, Y and Z angles of the object in free flight.

Mind you a lot people won't have a clue what I have just said so your wrapper will be damned useful.

Philip

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WOLFY
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Posted: 4th Mar 2004 12:42 Edited at: 4th Mar 2004 12:44
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The new dll is well on it's way. It is tenatively going to be titled EZrotate. I know there are some workarounds to get past the bug, but hopefully that will be fixed soon anyway. The dll is going to be more about added features and eaze of use.
The commands work like this:
EZro_Set X#,Y#,Z# sets up the dll with your current Euler angles
EZro_GX angle# rotates around the Global X axis by the given angle. Similar commands for the Y & Z axis.
EXro_GetX() gets the new Euler X angle to apply yo your object. Similar commands available to get the Y & Z.

Don't forget that you can also rotate localy, or around a vector.
You can also set up your rotations based on Matrix data and retrieve new matrix data.

It is dead simple to use. You don't have any dummy objects or extra overhead.

I have the global rotations complete now and I am currently working on the local, then vector. It should actually be ready very soon.

WOLF

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 5th Mar 2004 22:02
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I've updated my site with the some documentation for the wrapper. I still have to add the joint commands but the rest is there.

Go check it out:
http://www.ericksonline.com

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HZence
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Posted: 8th Mar 2004 17:35
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Ron, are you by chance related to a guy named Jason Erickson?


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 8th Mar 2004 21:04
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Nope... not that I know of at least.
Why? Who is that?

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HZence
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A guy I go to school with. We live in Pennsylvania too...just wondering.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 8th Mar 2004 23:22
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lol!
Where at? I have relatives up near Johnsonburg/St Mary's....
I'm from Pittsburgh.

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HZence
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Lancaster County (The ghetto of Amish Country, USA)


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 8th Mar 2004 23:31
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lol
I've been there before. No relatives that I know of though....

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HZence
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Well, Erickson is a common name, heh.


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RAMBO_PM
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2004 09:43
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Great work WOLF!

But, I have some License questions about the Tokamak Physics DLL (not your wrapper), hope any of you out there can help me:

If I create a game using Tokamak DLL, I'll have to distribute it with my game, so I'll include all documentation and stuff and put Tokamak logos and mentions of it all over my game. Done that, will I be able to sell or distribute my game without legal problems?

Just in case, if I do the same thing, but using your wrapper (and the TOKAMAK DLL), and put mentions and the required documentation, would I be able to do the same thing without these problems?

Well, I'm just wondering. Of course "if" I make a game and make profit from it I will somehow pay for your wrapper (and for the Tokamak DLL), but since programming with 3rd party aplications/source has so many kinds of "license agreements", it gets kinda confusing.
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2004 12:30 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2004 12:36
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Rambo,
It is confusing.
I e-mailed the Tokamak team a couple of weeks ago in regards to this question. They have yet to respond.

Here is the contents of the e-mail that I sent:


Because they have not responded, I am taking it as if they are not going to allow me to include the tokamak dll as part of my wrapper for the reason that it would make my wrapper a physics system. I will e-mail them again, but so far things do not look good.
I have come up with another solution though if the above does NOT work out. I haven't worked ALL of the details out in my head yet of the BEST way to do it, but I do have an idea. I could set up a "special" version of the wrapper that I would not distribute. If you completed a game using the Tokamak physics dll and my wrapper, you could send me the source under the agreement that I would NOT use it for anything other than to compile it with the "special" wrapper that includes the tokamak dll. I could also add the required splash screen that makes it abide by the other parts of the Tokamak physics system. In the end, you get an exe that you can distribute that does not need my dll or the Tokamak dll. It will not be a physics system and their dll would be compiled in your program so ALL licensing requirements should be met.
I know this isn't the BEST solution. It is actually a real pain in the butt for you AND me, but it is a way around the problem. If this is the route that we must take, I can NOT possibly keep up with every time someone wanted their game compiled. To keep me from getting a million requests per day and to offset the time that it is going to take me, I'd probably require a small fee to do this, but I promise that it would be cheap.
Hopefully though, they will just let me get around their licensing somehow and wee can avoid this altogether.

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nrasool
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2004 13:27 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2004 13:44
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@Wolf

Why not ask the question on their forum. Here is the link http://www.tokamakphysics.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=6

Edit: Looking at the following thread:
http://www.tokamakphysics.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=98

Quote: "
Question:
If I make a game using the provided tokamak DLL, I would need to distribute the DLL for my game to work, and therefore, if I was going to sell it (the game) I would distribute the DLL with it. What are the conditions for me to do that in a Legal way?

Answer from Forum member:
You can distribute it with the game your selling since your game isn't any physicslibrary.

I for an instance, can not distribute the DLL with my wrapper since the wrapper is a physics.dll even though it only wraps Tokamak functions."


Kind Regards

A Good Programmer never blames his tools
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2004 13:55
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Now that I re-read their license agreement, it is very unclear.

Here is the line in question:
1) The LICENSEE may not redistribute the SOFTWARE, except as part of a compiled software program that is not itself a physics library.

Now, I can NOT distribute their dll because then that would make my wrapper it's own physics library. That part is well stated and very clear. When I first read "except as part of a compiled software program", I understood that as being their dll HAS TO BE COMPILED WITH your source. Re-reading it again now, it might mean that you can distribute their dll as long as it is with something such as a game that is NOT a physics library. If that is the case, then everyone is happy. I'll pose the question to them again.

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2004 14:06
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I asked the question on their forums. We'll see how they respond.

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2004 17:38
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Static mesh support is now WORKING!
Look for a new version of the wrapper within a couple of days! Yeah!!! This means I'll get to start working on some demos again

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RAMBO_PM
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2004 20:47 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2004 21:07
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Thank you all. I thought I was the only one confused about that.

I think it is allowed to distribute their DLL alone as long you mention it somehow and includes their license agreement. But, it would be great to just include the source with the game, as it would be way more neat, but not a requirement.

Anyway, I think that DBPro is way more interesting now, with your wrapper and the ability to use Tokamak functions to deal with collisions and physics (both things that DBPro suffers). Hope, in the near future all tokamak functions will be available through your wrapper.

Continue with the excellent work WOLF!

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2004 22:12 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2004 22:13
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Here is a little pic of static mesh support in action. This is shown using a DBpro Matrix. It can also be done using a 3d model (x/3ds) which I am working on now.


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walaber
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that's top notch stuff right there! good work WOLF!!!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Juso
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Posted: 24th Mar 2004 18:06
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Wolf:

What if I start to make a game which uses your dll which uses tokamal dll? And my game isnt physics library, so is it a legal game or not?
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Ron Erickson
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Yes. The game would be legal. My wrapper dll gets compiled with your DBpro project. The tokamak dll does not. The question is if you can distribute the tokamak dll with your game or if the users would have to download the tokamak dll from their site. I've asked the question a couple of times now, and have not yet received a clear answer.

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RAMBO_PM
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Posted: 24th Mar 2004 18:43 Edited at: 24th Mar 2004 18:51
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It is legal, as long as you don't break the license agreement.
You can also distribute their DLL with your game, as long it has the required documentation and mentions of it on your game.

Read the information a few posts above.

WOLF, I've been thinking, if you compile your DLL with the Tokamak source, and make it as if it belongs to Tokamak (well, you could mention that you made the conversion), and include their documentation with it. In theory, it would be the same as Tokamak DLL except that it is optimized for DarkBasic Pro.

Just a thought anyway. Perhaps I'm wrong.

[EDIT]
"1) The LICENSEE may not redistribute the SOFTWARE, except as part of a
compiled software program that is not itself a physics library."
I think you would need their authorization to do what I suggested.
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 00:23
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding completely, but surely if the USERS (us) of your wrapper downloaded the Tokamak dll separatly to your dll (therefore you are not distributing their dll), then your dll could compile the Tokamak dll with the DBPro exe, therefore meeting the part of the license agreement...

Quote: "The LICENSEE may not redistribute the SOFTWARE, except as part of a
compiled software program that is not itself a physics library"


And allowing us to distribute our exes without the users (gamers probably) having to download the Tokamak DLL.

I'm confused :S....

Trying is the first step towards faliure.
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 18:40
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Version 1.02 is now available with full support for Matrix or Mesh terrains!

http://www.ericksonline.com

Let's see some cool demos!

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Juso
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 09:18
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Hoooowwwwlllly cow !, it works very well as usually
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andrew11
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Posted: 28th Mar 2004 17:50 Edited at: 28th Mar 2004 18:25
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Its awsome. Great Work!

If i understand correctly, the parameters for TokS_CreateSim are GravityX#, GravityY#, GravityZ#. Is there a way to alter the gravity after calling TokS_CreateSim?

Also, how exactly does the TOKs_SetStaticMesh command work? Can i send it Get Memblock Ptr() of a memblock that has mesh data in it?

And can there be more than one static mesh?

Thanks

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
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