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Work in Progress / Undead kung-fu pirates...

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Van B
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Posted: 25th Feb 2004 15:50
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Uberwigget I need you!

I'm about to start on a script system for our MMORPG, but besides Health and Strength, what other characteristics do we need?. Let's not simply copy existing systems, decide for yourself how you want the combat and interaction to work.

I'll make an IDE type thing for the scripts, then you'll be able to look into combat formulae and item scripts - that won't be for a couple of weeks though.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
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Wiggett
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 10:11
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WHOA! someone asking me for help!!! thats new


anyway, hmm. by characteristics do you mean like d and d stats like str int dex etc. well anyway other stats would be speed (dex) for how fast tehy move, um something dealing with magic ability eg mana or vitality.

um for combat stuff, i'd assume we have feats and things ala the d&d system, although i will work through and modify them to format them for our game and add our own little spin on it tonight. then i will have it for you by the weekend, but for now jsut go on the physical stats like health speed, strength, intelligence and vitality etc. the rest i will work up tonight.

ps how have your other projects been doing?



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Van B
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 12:18 Edited at: 26th Feb 2004 12:23
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Hi Uberwigget,

Cool. I should be able to get started on the script system real soon.

My idea is that everything is handled by a script, combat will be a little script, each weapon will have a script, spells will be scripts - really it'll all run in it's own internal programming language. That way - we could add weapons and change scripts in the games really easily. Also - if you wanted a solo project after this, you could develop it into a single player RPG.

If you imagine each thing in the game as an entity that can do anything. For example a ring, a ring item would need a ring image, and a little script that tells the engine what to do when someone wears the ring. A good example would be that the ring makes the player invisible, this would mean it might have a script like:

on condition "Use"
me.visible=-1
me.adddelay("me.visible=1",10000)
end condition

So when you use the ring, it checks the script for a Use condition and runs that part of the script. The adddelay bit is for delayed events, you will be able to specify commands that run after a set time period. In that instance, my thinking is that after 10000 miliseconds the magic wears off.
Don't worry though, the scripts will be quite straightforward . Once the script system is done, I can send it to you and you can start making scripts for handling items and combat while I develop the game engine. The IDE for making the scripts will be sweet though I promise ya, no messing about with notepad or anything, you'll be able to create, edit, setup, and test the scripts in the same app.

EDIT (me other projects):
I just finished my puzzle game, VanSKETCH is comming along nicely except a couple of issues that are slowing me down. The new versions of OIE and Jetpac2003 should be ready really soon - I gotta get some web space before I can upload anything though.


Van-B


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Wiggett
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Posted: 28th Feb 2004 10:13
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damn dude that sounds hell of decrepit. cant wait to see it, i should be able ot make a huge amount of items with it and their graphics, but are the items gonna be 2d or 3d, i mean are we using plains or 3d figures like in OIE? (havent been able to work on a list yet cause i need to get my laptop networked but then i will be able to transfer stuff back n forth and i will be able to work on it when class gives me the poos. is it smart to change my ideas of future career from forensic science to game programming )



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Van B
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Posted: 1st Mar 2004 17:07
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Hehe, nah, stick with the forensics mate - much more rewarding and interesting career IMO.

I think we should be sensible and stick with 2D sprite like figures and items. I mean you could probably draw 10 item icons in the space of an hour - but modelling and texturing would take soooo much longer.

I'm thinking that each item can have an icon (32x32) image that is used in shops or in inventory screens etc. We should try and keep things simple - I don't know if you have anything planned for weapons but changing weapons on a 2D image is no picnic. It'd be cool if we could let people design and modify their own avatars, and to do that we have to minimise them - like by only having walking animations and not showing them carrying a weapon.

Once a fight starts, we could use a bigger portrait of the characters and have a strategic AD&D style turn based combat system. Simple to use, like Attack, Run, Spells, Special Items - in a little menu. If we take that route then we could easily have more and more people involved in battles - like you'd have a list of people fighting with you, and a list of people your fighting - then you could watch the other characters take their turns and back them up if you wanted, or get everyone to pick on one particular character. This way - everyone playing at a given time could get involved in a battle, someones wandering around killing people in their sleep (not pointing any fingers WOLF!) - the other players could start up a posse and teach him a lesson.

NPC's could play a decent part for a change, like hiring them to work with you, a bit like syndicate wars except you'd have to pay them. That way the game is still fun when there's less human players than you'd like.

Nothing is set in stone yet though, the script system won't change much so that's where I'll start, then we can work out the combat and item handling and see where that leaves us.


Van-B


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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 1st Mar 2004 18:32
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That script system sounds really cool... how do you go about making something like that? I wanted to make a really simple scripting language just to trigger off events and the like, in my project it would be really useful. How do you make one?

Cheers

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zircher
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2004 00:48
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Scripting is easy and hard at the same time. The mechanics of opening a text file and parsing the data are simple. The challenge comes in designing the script language, storing the data, and having the game engine act upon the data.

This is something where design is more important than code. Sit down with a notepad and start writing up events that you want to support. Then, figure out how you want to store those events ing your game (say an array of event user defined types.) From there you can start writing up the script specs and build a parser to read your script files and add the data to your event list.

Inside your main game loop, you'd just walk though the event list and apply the results when the appropriate triggers happen. [Examples of triggers can be time, score, health levels, proximity, etc.]
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AlecM
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2004 03:42
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I used to play Everquest... so maybe I can help. Dex, agi, sta, int, cha, str, wis.

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Wiggett
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2004 08:24 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2004 11:39
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cool van b, when i get some more time i will start drawing some graphics, and if we get a world builder up i can whipp out some graphics and worlds for it. anyway let me know how the IDE comes along. though a thought on teh combat system you talked about, turn based would be rather cool, but because of the mmog system, it might take ages to run a turn, say if you had a 50 man battle, 1 turn could last a very long time, so I was more thinking along the lines of battle the way syndicate runs it, with the little cursor and everyone shoots there but the accuracy is done depending on your levels in what weapon you are using etc. i think this will run a bit better when handling so many people, though maybe if we prototyped a system of both, we could run some tests and see which comes out better, cause turn based sounds good for use of skills and things, but to run it smoothly real time sounds better. anyway get back to me as quick as you can, im away this weekend, but i can check the internet at school during hte week now.



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Van B
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2004 12:18
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Moonshine,
Zirchers got the right idea, there's no joy in coding something like a scripting system without planning it out.
Organising how the script interacts with your world and characters is paramount, I intend to go for an early VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) style where all the source is in 1 big file. My idea is that each entity has standard event traps, like when you use an item or shoot it - it runs a specified function.

Luckily this project is not very realtime, but when designing a script system a high priority is keeping things smooth and not bogging your engine down doing script commands all the time. For instance, in the IDE it'll refer to variables and function names - but the game engine will convert these to something more palatable. The script file will be loaded into a string array, so each line will have a number - so instead of calling a function by its name and having to find the damn thing first - you do that at runtime and refer to the function by it's line number.

The thing with script systems is that some things are incredibly straightforward, but some things are really complex (as Zircher already said). Analysing a formulae for instance is complicated, but changing the state of an entity is easy. I might have a command called 'me.ghost' - which would simply ghost the object that parsed the script command. This 'me.ghost' command is easy to write and parse in the script, and easy to expand on too. The complicated parts are gonna be storing variables. I intend to give each entity a spare numeric and string variable for temporary storage because each entity could be parsing a different part of the script and this would cause variable value conflicts.

For RPG's scripts are vital, nobody wants to hard-code all the logic in it's native language where they can make any changes or add anything without a total rebuild.

I might make a script example with the ide once it gets to a decent stage and release it so folk can expand on the system for their own projects.


Van-B


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Van B
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2004 12:41
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Uber,
I know what you mean - but the problem with having an OIE style shooting system is that it would mean a lot more media work and a fairly heavy multiplayer burden.

How about this then...

Each character has a projectile weapon depending on their character class that they can fire at anyone at any time - but we make it so that shooting willy-nilly is not a good idea. I reckon subduing the guns so they're only considered an option in an emergency will make the game fair for different experience levels - there's no fun in starting a game the dying within 5 minutes because an oldbie blew you to bits for not handing over your lunch money. We could even have NPC Police men, so if you want to shoot someone, you'd take them somewhere quiet first, Mafia style .

We could also have a more strategic hand-to-hand or weapon combat system too. We can control this by only allowing character development with turn based combat, if you go and shoot someone, you don't get any experience, however if you win a fair fight on turn based combat you get experience.

I reckon it'd be a good idea to allow this freedom, because it'll further enhance the interaction between characters. You could intervene and save a buddies life by shooting the guy who's about to kill him.

The turn based combat should'nt be too much of a hassle, what we do is have 5 second turns, every 5 seconds everyone must decide on a move - those that don't just defend themselves. This way, there won't be that delay when waiting for people to make their move, and a gang could develop strategies and share the booty (like by robbing the poor unconscious dudes). I'm thinking that it'd be cool to let someone live too, like get their health down really low then let them live and get some experience points and maybe alter other stats (like charm or something) too to make up for not killing them.


Van-B


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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2004 12:53
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Cheers Van. Any idea when you'll be releasing your example? Just like an idea thats all. Thanks for the explanation.

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Van B
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2004 14:33
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I could'nt really say, I mean I'm starting work on it this week, but I doubt it'll be finished before the end of the month.


Van-B


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Wiggett
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2004 14:38
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work faster slave 'whoopish!'



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Wiggett
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Posted: 16th Mar 2004 01:57
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hey just a message van b, I wont be able to make many things for the game at teh moment, I kinda went and broke up with my girlfriend, we ae still friends apparently which sorta means i can use the internet just not as often, and considering we usually worked on stuff together that might also suffer. but once your IDE thing is ready to send give me a heads up and i'll organize getting hold of it. anyway keep up the good work.



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