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2D All the way! / Best graphic format for backgrounds

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Scouseknight
21
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Joined: 15th Mar 2004
Location: Bootle, Merseyside, UK
Posted: 7th Apr 2004 05:03
I've been working with background levels for a game I'm doing and I can save a lot of time if I have backgrounds that I can overlay other graphics on top of.

I tried this using JPEG images but when they are saved out of Paint Shop Pro, they become "speckled" and therefore I am unable to use the transparency flag in DarkBasic to overlay my level "foreground" for want of a better description onto my background.

I know this isn't a Dark Basic issue but you fellas seem to know about everything so before I plough on and try bitmaps or some other format, what do you guys suggest?

Tapewormz
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Joined: 15th Sep 2002
Location: Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada
Posted: 7th Apr 2004 05:58 Edited at: 7th Apr 2004 06:01
Use bmp's in 24 bit mode. For forground images, use png's so that you can preserve your alpha chanels.

If your bmp's and png's are 24 bit and your color depth is set to 16 bit (not 16 colors) it will adjust the image, so there's no need to have 16 bit and 24 bit images I would think...

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
Scouseknight
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Joined: 15th Mar 2004
Location: Bootle, Merseyside, UK
Posted: 7th Apr 2004 15:38
Cheers - I noticed the sprites I extracted from the bitmaps had no such problems so that collaborates.

Thanks a lot.

Tapewormz
22
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Location: Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada
Posted: 8th Apr 2004 05:16
No problem, and keep banging away at your retro game. It looks really good so far.

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
Scouseknight
21
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Joined: 15th Mar 2004
Location: Bootle, Merseyside, UK
Posted: 8th Apr 2004 05:52 Edited at: 8th Apr 2004 05:53
Thanks for the encouragement - the feedback I have had from the guys on these forums has been a great help.

It's a double-edged sword this one - on one hand it's a well-known game so it has the rose-tinted memories to draw on when people see the screenshots and play the demo.

But the other side is it has to play as well as the original - and I'm being very careful about how I represent the game's playability - so far the signs are encouraging that I am doing a reasonably good job of preserving that.

It's a good project to work on - interesting and challenging too in many respects.

las6
22
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Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 8th Apr 2004 11:56
for background stuff that doesn't need to be transparent at all, use jpegs. For anything that needs and alpha, use .png (24-bit, not 8-bit). I see no reason to use .bmp's as .png compression doesn't cause any artifacts and it takes a lot less space than a pure bmp in most cases.

The trouble with using 16bit display mode and 24bit images is that you won't get proper alpha. it will either be Fully opaque or fully transparent... no blends in between. And it will look ugly. like a raster. Reminds me of the old "voodoo"-times.


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Scouseknight
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Location: Bootle, Merseyside, UK
Posted: 9th Apr 2004 03:09
Thanks for the information.

Tapewormz
22
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Location: Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada
Posted: 11th Apr 2004 02:19 Edited at: 11th Apr 2004 02:20
Quote: "use jpegs"
Uh, he wants backgrounds for his game. jpegs are bad for game images because the compression generates artifacts. Unless you want your hard edges in your photo's to have gobbledygook crust around it, you won't use jpegs.

However, if you didn't care about quality images for say something like a loading screen or an options screen, then jpegs would do just fine.

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
Pincho Paxton
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Joined: 8th Dec 2002
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Posted: 11th Apr 2004 02:25
Jpegs don't loose quality if you set them on high quality. You can't tell the difference, and they save you lots of memory still. They speed up your games a lot as well.

Tapewormz
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Location: Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada
Posted: 11th Apr 2004 02:30
Too much artificating for me...I see quality loss. Images get fuzzy alot of the time too. Even with lowest compression (highest quality).

I want a true 1:1 representation of the image I spent time and effort into creating. That's just not going to happen with jpeg or gif. Personally, I'll stick with png and bmp formats for true 1:1 quality.

It's presonal preference.

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
Tersaken
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Location: France ( Rennes )
Posted: 11th Apr 2004 15:57
Hi, for a better image quality, you should use Bitmap.
To Display your background, don't use sprites ( they are slow ) but you should use " Paste Image " Command.

Athlon Barton 2500+ ; 512 Mo DDR2 ; GeForce Fx 5200 Ultra 128 MoDDR.
Tapewormz
22
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Location: Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada
Posted: 11th Apr 2004 23:44
Quote: "Hi, for a better image quality, you should use Bitmap."


Agreed!

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
las6
22
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Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 15th Apr 2004 14:06
First of all, backgrounds are on the background. They aren't really the most important thing in the game. So in that sense, a small quality loss could be understandable. As for your "it's not good enough for me" - get lost. If 95 quality .jpeg's aren't good enough for you, nothing is. Did you know that almost ALL digital camera's use .jpeg compression? Guess why, because it saves Space and on highest quality the difference is not visible to your eye. That's the way the compression works, reduces the colors and complexity that the eye can't see!
I've never had goobledygook instead of hard edges in my jpegs. Or at least anything with quality over 50. Guess you're just doing it wrong.

Also, in games the textures generally tend to be presented slightly darker which also makes them look even better. The only way you could really see the compression artifacts on a let's say 85quality jpeg is that if you would brighten/modify it a lot in-game. Or make it transparent.
the only no-no for jpeg are complex images when doing normal mapping. As the lighting is calculated per-pixel, everything counts.


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Tapewormz
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Location: Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada
Posted: 17th Apr 2004 01:21 Edited at: 17th Apr 2004 01:23
Quote: "As for your "it's not good enough for me" - get lost"


Quote: "If 95 quality .jpeg's aren't good enough for you, nothing is"


Hey,

If you like 95% quality, that's fine. Opinions are like a-holes, everyones got one...not everyone has to be one... If I spend a lot of time on a piece of art, and I don't want quality loss then that's my decision.

Take heart in that a-hole statement. You came off as a pretty big jerk off in your comments.

Alot of what you say works, for some people and it doesn't for others. Choice... I'm not pretending to be some kind of game programming guru and graphics artist elitist.

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!

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