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Work in Progress / DarkBASIC Professional From The Ground Up *Book*

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KC27
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Posted: 12th Apr 2004 19:47
Vash and I have been working very hard on this book, and here is what we have done so far:

http://www.lsgaming.com/book.PDF

ReD_eYe
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Posted: 12th Apr 2004 19:57 Edited at: 12th Apr 2004 19:59
this is better you've done a good amount, i haven't read it all through but it looks like good stuff. congrats
#edit
starting reading through properly, its good stuff but maybe putting working code in italics would be a good idea? and putting it in a format that can be highlighted and copied too

In the beginning, the universe was created...
This made alot of people very angry and it has been widely regarded as a bad idea...
Visit http://redeye.dbspot.com
KC27
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Posted: 12th Apr 2004 20:09
Thanks for the input RedEye.

Vash and I are working on adding more example code as well. I know it is frustrating for newbies with the tutorials and manual, then when they ask in the forums half of the time they get the comment "STFU Newbie"

KC27
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Posted: 12th Apr 2004 20:12 Edited at: 12th Apr 2004 20:14
well, not everyone here has microsoft word, and the final version is going to have a source code disk included with it, along with many resources and complete mini-games.

[EDIT] Another reason I don't have it so that code can be copied is that it is my belief if the person actually types it in they may actually learn something.

the desktops
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Posted: 12th Apr 2004 20:24
Keep up the good work.

Soul Shooter Online
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 12th Apr 2004 21:28
Ca you make it availiable on-line please? I don't have acrobat reader and I can't open the file.



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Rage_Matrix
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Posted: 12th Apr 2004 22:43
Hey, good work. Keep it up.

www.tronsoftware.co.uk
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Saikoro
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 00:46
The books still under construction, but right now Im writing additional chapters and example code. When I finish the book will seem a lot more complete, but i have so much other stuff going on i probably wont be done today, might run into tomorrow, but it'll get done.

Thanks for your positive feedback!

-Vash the Stampede

"This world is LOVE and PEACE!" -Vash the Stampede

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 02:22
So that means it won't be availiable on-line?



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Saikoro
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 02:32 Edited at: 13th Apr 2004 02:35
It... err.. is available on line

But as far as a non-pdf format goes, ill do that when i have the time.

-Vash the Stampede

EDIT: Or just go to [href]www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html [/href] and download acrobat reader, its helpful and free.

"This world is LOVE and PEACE!" -Vash the Stampede

Mussi
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 02:34
lookin' good guys



Specs: AMD Athlon 1800, 256 DDRRam 266mhz, 80GB HD 7200rmp U133, Geforce 4 Ti4400 128mb
Saikoro
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 02:42
Im also JW does anyone see anything wrong with the +----------+ thingy on page 10? I see it but Wooly doesnt, im just wondering if its me or maybe not.

-Vash the Stampede

"This world is LOVE and PEACE!" -Vash the Stampede

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 02:53
Quote: "It... err.. is available on line "


Well duh.
I'm saying can you make it availiable via webpage?



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jrowe
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 02:56 Edited at: 13th Apr 2004 03:02
Looking really good. Should stop a few newbies asking for "teh codez". Keep it in pdf only, I want to see megaton get even more peed off on his sig.


For Fathers and Sons who enjoy wholy spirits.
soapyfish
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 02:58
I was writing a tut on making a DIY game ( one that you modify to end up with your own game) but thats kinda taken a backseat for a while. Yours is great so far and I hope you manage to get it released.

HEY, YOU THERE, THE ONE READING THIS, WHY NOT VISIT OUR TEAM SITE.
KC27
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 03:33
Megaton, I am going to have it available in .doc format soon.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 03:33
Stupid PDFs!



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KC27
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 03:42
Whats wrong with PDF's?? They are perfect for non windows machines. Dont worry megaton, the .doc version will be out very soon.

KC27
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 03:43
And we will release it for free, or maybe cheap like 2.50 or so.

Tapewormz
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 08:06
Um, question...

How can someone who knows next to nothing about basic language programming, write a book on the subject?

Please enlighten us...

This smells of plagiarism... Lets see... cmc's brother, lsgaming, history of theft and fraud...

Who'd you steal this pdf from really?

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
TheAbomb12
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 08:22
Tapewormz,

Your statement would mean that Vash the Stampede, a person with decent credibility (at least more then WMG) is involved in plagarism.

Now I hate CmC just about as much as anyone else; but if WMG really is CmC, I wouldn't careless. The Person under the alias WMG hasnt done anything majorly offencive; and until he does so, I am ok with him hanging around the forums (He is a tad annoying from time to time though).

Now granted, WMG isnt the most veteran coder around and I suspect that Vash is doing the large bulk of the writing; but you should still cut a bit more slack.

Amist the Blue Skies...
Tapewormz
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 08:34
I'm just really skeptical from past events... I can't say anything bad about Vash...

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
KC27
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 15:12
Actually, I wrote everything except chapter 4. Vash wrote chapter four, and he is writing the 2D tutorials for sprites and images. And just because I havent been in the forum a long time doesnt mean I havent been coding for awhile.

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 16:27
I just get a cannot find server error.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 21:48
I'm with tapewormz, from what I heard, Vash is a pretty decent member, so why would he team up with an idiot like Cmc to write a book that actually has something in it?

Something doesn't seem right here...



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KC27
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 22:19
First off, I am not CM-C, and second, Vash is now writing some more, and the server is down for a temprary amoutn of time. Sorry

zircher
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 01:47
Using AR6.0, the +----+ 'thingy' looks like it is 6 or 7 characters too long and wraps around.
--
TAZ

KC27
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 01:50
We'll fix that....right now I am writing the AI section, but the one thing I am a bit stuck on is neural networks?? Anybody know how to code an example in DBP?? I have an example in C++

Saikoro
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 02:41
OMG u guys this is pretty much the last thing I expected from this community. For one, WMG is not CmC, u cant hate a guy for being related to someone you may not like. And to assume that WMG has no basic programming experience... you cant write a book without knowing, and obviously, he has started and done a pretty nice job at it too. And please stop talking about CmC, hes gone, old news, leave him alone, theres nothing being mad at him is going to do besides cause even more useless spam.

@zircher: thx, thats the reader version I have, maybe u didnt see it WMG? try fixing it.

As for the book, I wrote chapter 5 and am now sending it to WMG, and I am also going to make some example code for each chapter. Hopefully the bulk of the book will be done by the end of the week, and if i get to work some more, ill do some source code to be included, if its ok with him.

Thanks for your input!

-Vash the Stampede

"This world is LOVE and PEACE!" -Vash the Stampede

KC27
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 03:02
Fine by me Vash, I finished some examples too....Like a simple accounting prog.

Cheers

Peter H
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 03:13 Edited at: 14th Apr 2004 03:13
Quote: "Um, question...

How can someone who knows next to nothing about basic language programming, write a book on the subject?
"

well all he (WMG not vash) has to do is write what he does and say "DON'T DO THIS!" ..............j/k, no offense WMG (but much offense to cmc ( ))


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
Saikoro
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 03:27
...

Well anyway, have finished much of the example code and am converting it to darkBASIC .dba or .dbpro format as opposed to on the microsoft word document. Progress on the book is going good, and everything is working out fine. If we could get some feedback on the content of the book that would be helpful as well.

Thanks again!

-Vash the Stampede

"This world is LOVE and PEACE!" -Vash the Stampede

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 04:50
Looking great .... just don't forget the bit shift operators "<<" & ">>" I know they are not very popular but they are way faster than dividing or multiplying large numbers though you do lose some accuracy and negative numbers are a pain. Also don't forget If Condition1 OR Condition2 THEN do this. I will read it a little closer later.

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walaber
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 05:52
reading through it really quick, it seems like a nice resource for beginners.

one note. in your array example, you use the Rnd(7) command. remember that this command will return a number from 0 to 7. since you don't have anything defined in 0 of your array, you might want to change it to Rnd(6) + 1.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 09:48
dont array indexes start at 0? shouldnt it be 0 - 6?

Amist the Blue Skies...
Jess T
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 11:54 Edited at: 14th Apr 2004 11:57
That looks good guys


Just a few design notes on the book itself;
o For each Chapter, start a new page.

o With ALL the code, change the font of it ( I suggest Courier New, 10pt ), and name it. Ie., give it an "example" number, like "Example 3.1" ( where the 3 is the chapter number, and the 1 is the example number ). Also, I'm not too sure if it's possible with PDF documents, but try to place the code examples in a box of some sort, so that it's easily discernable from the rest of the text ( along with the font change ).

o The "+---+" wraps around, Just as a suggestion, instead of trygin to make it span the whole page, just make it short, about half the page width, then centred, It still looks just as good, If not better IMO.

o Again, I am not too sure if it's possible with PDF documents, but try to set up links from the index at the start, so that you just have to click on a chapter heading to jump to it. If that's not possible, set up Bookmarks for the chapters, which IS possible.

o With the code ( again ), Try to Bold the DBP commands, and Italicise the remarks. And, if it's possible, at the end of each chapter, give a fully commented working code summary that can be just written straight into DBP and run, and will output some sort of result.

o With the General text, Justify it. So that the right hand side has a hard edge, it looks so much better than simply Left Aligning it.

o Thesub headings you use ( mainly the ones at the start for "Integer" and "String" etc ) aren't very noticable. Put their Point Size up a bit, Bold it and get rid of the underline.


Well, that's all for now...

Hope I wasn't too harsh
If I was, sorry, lol.

Jess.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
walaber
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 13:14
TheAbomb
Yeah they do. but in DB if you define an array with say 3 elements dim Array(3) you actually get 4 elements, because you can use Array(0) - Array(3).

in the example in the book they aren't using (0), but the Rnd() function *can* return 0... in which case the program wouldn't print a day of the week like they want it to.

that's all.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 15:07
Megaton - Why not download Acrobat Reader? It wouldn't take that much effort. Sorry if you do have a reason.

Looking good Mammoth! I'd say the code needs to be a different font and colour to the rest of the text though.

Trying is the first step towards faliure.
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Van B
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 15:26
PDF file allow copying of text by using the 'text select tool' then highlighting and copying - I just copied this from the book:

Function betterPrint(text$, xtextpos, ytextpos)
Text xtextpos, ytextpos, text$
Endfunction

It's looking pretty good, but I think there's a couple of formating problems. Firstly, with any technical document - always include a header with the chapter and section, and also a footer with the page number. People will print this out so page numbers are vital. I also like a line between the header and page body, it helps orientate your eyes on the page and makes reading easier.

The other thing that stuck out was the chapter headings, they're far too big, I'd suggest making them no wider than about 1/3rd the page width.

All-in-all though it's looking like a really useful resource and should make a lot of newbies very happy - keep it up.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
KC27
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 22:39
Thanks for the comments

Saikoro
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:56
I have requested the original Word documents for the entire book and will proceed to make certain changes according to previous feedback. Many of the ideas Jess suggested I was beginning to take into account previously, and the fact that someone else suggests them makes them even more possible to happen. I agree the code is somewhat hard to see, so count on many of those changes to be made. Now what happens with the book as far as format is completely dependent on what WMG decides, all I can do is merely suggest to him directly. But if he allows me to do some editing work, you can expect to see many changes being made as the book gets closer to completion.

Thanks for your feedback.

-Vash the Stampede

"This world is LOVE and PEACE!" -Vash the Stampede

Jess T
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 01:38
Glad to have helped

Jess.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
KC27
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 22:17
Vash, I am going to be on today, with my updated word files.

KC27
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 02:08
I sent the file Vash, you should get it in a few minutes, can you be on AIM tonight??

Scouseknight
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 02:13
Had a quick scan - will be useful for me certainly - I'm fine with 2D stuff but 3D is still largely a mystery to me outside of simple matrices and shapes. Nice one

KC27
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 02:18
Yea, no problem, this book will probably be available for like free when finished.

Saikoro
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 06:35
WMG - I recieved your file and am now making huge revamps to the layout of the code. Im also adding in new sample code, and converting them to .dba/.dbpro. I will probably be done with this within the next week, so expect to see a newer version later. I will also try to be available later tonight.

Well, gotta get back to work!

-Vash the Stampede

"This world is LOVE and PEACE!" -Vash the Stampede

KC27
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 03:31
*New Release Soon*

*Hopefully Tonight*

Peace Out
WMG

KC27
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 03:41
Now Updated...not finished

Dave J
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 17:04 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2004 17:07
Quote: "when they ask in the forums half of the time they get the comment "STFU Newbie""


Strangely I find this forum the best at giving good and helpful responses to questions. I personally have never seen that comment posted before EVER. Occasionally there are some sly remarks when someone asks something as silly as "How do I make a FPS?" but that's nowhere near 'half the time'.


Quote: "For one, WMG is not CmC, u cant hate a guy for being related to someone you may not like."


The reason we believe he is CM[/b]C is because he made a post in team requests and signed his name "Chris", which is CM[b]C's name while WM[b][/b]G's name is apparently "Lyle". As soon as this was mentioned, his site conveniently disappeared and only lately has it reappeared. I'm still skeptical on who he is and what credibility he has.

The document itself is alright although some major fundamentals have been excluded from it. For instance, you've only mentioned 3 of DBP's 8 data types, you've also neglected to mention User-defined Type's which is an incredibly important part of the DBP language, this should have been included early on, definately before the first project.

You've also forgotten to mention how to return a value from a function (very important as this was the original intended use of functions) and how to call them. Telling users how to call them is very important because a common mistake is that calling a function that returns a value is different to calling a function that doesn't. Ie:

ReturnValue = FunctionName(Para, Para2)
FunctionName Para, Para2

Lot's of users stick the brackets in when a function isn't returning a value and this will cause a compilation error.

Perhaps the thing that really got me that wasn't included was Pointers, lots of people don't know pointers exist in DBP and have no idea how to use them. A document like yours should definately include information on them as they can be very, very useful.

I know it's not finished yet so you may still add these things in but from looking at the contents, I don't see any chapters where you intended to include them.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."

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