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Geek Culture / How many of you would honestly pay money for a DBP game?

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soapyfish
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 02:18
Hey all,
I was going through some old magazines last night when I found an article about a company that was made up of experienced people who were selling there indie games on-line. This got me thinking, how do you sell things on-line. If you manage to get a game publihed and released into the highstreet shops then this aint a problem but what about people like us, the bedroom programmers, the people whoes work is only ever appreaciated by people that actually look for it. I know there have been one or two games made in DBP that have received a bit of outside interest but what about the rest. I want to know, honestsly, if I made a game that was actually good how many of you would be willing to shell out £10 for it instead of just going and finding a equally good free game. There are loads of people that dream of coming up with the next GTA or MGS2 but how are they meant to tell people about their games and then actually persuade them to buy it. So please, if you've made any money at all from your games, put a price on them but not sold any, actally got a game on a magazine cover disk etc or just have something you want to say, post a re-ply so I can find out what everyone else thinks. Thanks for reading.

code2kill

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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 02:48
I must admit that due to being under 18 I cant buy games from the net because I need a credit card. But to be honest a good game is a good game and if i liked it then I would pay for it. Commercial games have staggeringly high system requirements these days and as a result when I walk into my local games shops I head for the discount "3 for £20" or pre-owned games shelves.

I plan to sell games in the future - online seems a good idea. Marketing would be a problem but if you plan well and use your head then sure it is possible.

Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 03:05
you're under 18?
O_O

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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 03:33
Er, well, almost 17. Anyway, whats so surprising about that???

A lot of DB users are around this age.

Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 03:58
yeah...but you're like...really mature....

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DrakeX
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 04:03
a teenager? mature? how could that be..

if i really liked the game, i wouldn't have any problem buying it, no matter if it were made in DBP or C++ or assembly. but if it were a breakout clone for $10.. sorry, that's not really enough to get me to buy.

but you're right. it's very difficult to get almost any publicity on the internet unless you have.. connections

alright, give him the stick -- DON'T GIVE HIM THE STICK!!

"Bouncy bouncy lock." - TheCodingArea
Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 04:26
mature teenager..that's me

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Wik
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 04:30
Quote: "How many of you would honestly pay money for a DBP game?"


Not me


Manticore Night
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 04:40
I would you could use your bank card to buy, that's what I do. Either that or yell at people on the street for credit cards. Yeah, I'm an immature teenager.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
Fallout
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 04:43
Depends how good it is, doesnt it?

I only pay for things that are worth the money, so if I think someone has sat in their bedroom for a week, had fun, and want 30 of my nuggly nuggins in exchange for their little game, then they can (insert random obscenity here). However, if blood sweat and tears have gone into a game over months and month .. maybe even years, and I like it, then I think those people deserve my money.

If I made a quality game in a week, I wouldnt expect anyone to pay for it. If I lost my girlfriend through neglect, lost all my limbs due to poor circulation and lost the power of speech due to extreme work, I'd expect you all to pay me a whole lot of money for my game.

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 04:57
LOL...well, if it was that bad....I'd probably laugh and laugh all night!

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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 05:14
Wow, didnt know I was viewed as mature....heh. And why the hell does firefox keep scrolling for no reason?!?

Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 05:16
yeah, you are cuz you never argue or stuff like that and you are very..M00NSHiNEyish

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Manticore Night
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 06:56
Quote: "
If I lost my girlfriend through neglect, lost all my limbs due to poor circulation and lost the power of speech due to extreme work, I'd expect you all to pay me a whole lot of money for my game.
"

Hey everyone should buy that game and pay for your reabiltation. LOL

PS. I like turkey(that was my imatureness using the keyboard again)

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
Jess T
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 09:37
Being completely honest here...
If you didn't know it was made in DarkBASIC, and it was released online, and you just happened to buy it, THEN find out it was made in DarkBASIC, would it really make any difference at all?

It's a good game if it's a good game, otherwise it's a poorly created game.

I mean, what if it just so happened that ID Software brought out another game series that were entirely created in DarkBASIC Pro, but noone knew this untill the games were making $0000's, if ever.
You'd still pay money for it wouldn't you?
Hell, you may have already actaully payed money for a DarkBASIC game but didn't know it...

It's all down to Bias I'd say...

Jess.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
ReD_eYe
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 13:55
Moonshine mate, get yourself down to halifax and get a junior account(might be called something different) you get a bank account and a solo card that you can use online, i'm 15 and have had one since i was 13. I've bought games, cd's and plugins using it

I only buy games after playin a demo(or the full version at a friends house) so as long as a game had a demo that impressed me then i'd buy it, weather it was made in db or not doesn't come into it.

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MicroMan
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 14:28
Interesting question...

I've been known to rummage through the 'ancient bin' at my computer store for games. I'm not too particular about having the latest, awesome graphics and sound. I'm more interested in game experience, and you can find great game experience in older not so advanced games.

Which brings us to DBP... I guess. It's too much to ask for DBP to bring out the next Half Life 2 or the next Unreal, but I think it's well within DBPs scope to make a Half Life 1, or for that matter the King's Quest 6 or something.

So, if the price wasn't too high. Say up to €10, I'd probably be willing to shell out money for a "home-made" game. But I'd have to try it first.

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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 15:27
ReD_eYe: Trouble is Ive already got an under 19's account with Lloyds TSB. They gave me a Visa Electron debit card, and I think you can use it on amazon. Thats it

Fallout
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 15:29
.... use your parents credit card?

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 15:43 Edited at: 3rd May 2004 15:44
LOL
That's a good one.
If I squint my eyes really hard I can almost feel myself flying out the window.
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 16:11
Quote: " .... use your parents credit card?"


Thats the plan...... WOOHAHAHAHAHAR!...ahem.

soapyfish
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 16:56
Quote: ".... use your parents credit card?"


I do that all the time, ofcourse I give my mum the money first but I still get to use it pretty much whenever I want.

Anyhoo onto the subject in hand.
Quote: "if the price wasn't too high."

A HA!!!, this is something else we have to think about, just how much would you people be willing to spend on a game. I know that personally I wouldn't go spending £30 on a game someone was advertising on their own little website that had a few screenshots showing in-game action I probably wouldn't even spend £30 if it had a playable demo that blew me away. I may be willing to spend £15 but not without ALOT of people going on about how good said game was. When it gets to £10 I would be willing to buy the game if it had a good rep and was the sort of thing that I liked to play and if it was selling for a miniscule(spelling) £5 and had a few screenshots or even just 1 or 2 people saying how good it was I would be uch more likely buy it. So what is the best price to sell your games for.
£30 which alot of people wont bother with when a commercial game can be bought for the same amount or less. £15 which promises the most profit IF you can persuade people tp buy it or £5 which alothough dosn't seem like much would quickly build up if you managed to get the word out about your game and alot of people liked it and told others how much they liked it.

code2kill

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MicroMan
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 17:02
But there's another problem with a price that's too low. People will judge the game to be crap just because the price is so low.

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They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 17:24
I think about a tenner is about right. Not too high, yet not too low. Maybe £8.

soapyfish
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 17:41
Micromans got another good point there, if I go to a highstreet shop and see a pc game for £5 I normally steer clear but does the fact that the games for sale on the interenet make it okay to sell it for these amounts of money. MOONSHiNE says about £8 but then we're starting to get close to prices like £7.99 and £4.99 which, while may get you a few more sales because people tend to see the £4 insted of thinking of it as 1p of £5 what about anyone that does realise what your trying to do wouldn't they then go and find somone who they think is more honest and trustworthy.

code2kill

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Peter H
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 17:42 Edited at: 3rd May 2004 17:45
well i don't know about pounds but i think about $15 would be good for a "unknown" game

Though usually i like getting the "Cool" games(good graphics) i myself bought a $5 (let's see maybe 2 pounds? ) game called "Robo arena" (or something similar...i forget ) and it was really fun!(i made a big robot with a buz saw ...i never lost with that thing ) you can make your own robots and fight with the computers robots...and the physics are amazingly realistic!

but unfortunately i can't get stuff online unless my parents approve of it first and use they're credit card...but it takes forever for them to get the time to look at it and then approve it ...(such as DBPro...took me a month from when i saw it to when i could buy it) ...of course when i do buy stuff online i pay them back for using they're credit card...(i'm NOT some rich kid )


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 18:12
$15 = about £8.40

How do you think I feel magellan - I asked my dad to order DBPro last October and Im still waiting.

Peter H
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 18:15
ya i know how you feel..but luckily for me DBPro was faster then most things becuase my dad tought programming for 2 years


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David T
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 18:25
Quote: "How many of you would honestly pay money for a DBP game?"


Not me

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hexGEAR
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 19:11
Heh, app. programs made for db-games (ngc, blue etc) are even selling more than the actual db-games created (seems like it anyways).

Quote: ""How many of you would honestly pay money for a DBP game?""


Firstly, i wouldn't buy something i could easily make myself, and i'm sure many others would agree.

Secondly, if i wanted graphics i'd go buy the latest doom or half-life but i don't, i actually prefer innovative gameplay. In other words if someone uses db to make just another fps shooter (which seems to be the agenda on most peoples minds in here) or games with wonderful graphics and gameplay very simillar to those already existing on the market i doubt i'd even play it let alone buy it... but if someone made a totally new type of game, something never done/seen before, a twist in formula that catches my attention, then i just might try it, if i like it then eventually buy it even if it has average graphics.

we are all indi developers here, i think innovative games is what some of us should be focussing on, i think the next dark basic competition should be based on innovation, something new or a twist to something old/exsisting. The winner should be the person that diverts the furthest from formula while still keeping a very playable and likeable game.

the_winch
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 19:35
Quote: "Heh, app. programs made for db-games (ngc, blue etc) are even selling more than the actual db-games created (seems like it anyways)."


Well this is a game programming community, there is going to be more of a market for dev tools here than games. TGC would be adding games to there product list instead of dev tools if it was the other way around. You need to find somewhere with people that are more intrested in buying games than writing them

i won't see you in the pit
soapyfish
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 19:43 Edited at: 3rd May 2004 19:46
Sounds good Hexgear.

While I was laying in my hammock just know I started thinking, what about teams. If you make a game yourself then any money you gwt wuld at least be better then nothing but what if your working in a team, let me explain.

SOLO..........TEAM(5 members)

£30............£6
£20............£4
£10............£2
£5.............£1

Of course a team made game may be of better quality then a solo project but when it gets complicated is

a) How to get the money earned from your bank accout to the other team members.

b) If you make a team request promising the team members some money at the end of the project what are they going to think when they get a checck for £2 thrust under their nose, that is if you even manage to sell a game.

c) What are you going to do with £1

code2kill

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 19:50
a) go into your bank and tell them to transfer it
b) you should make clear you might not make any money at all before they join, then anything they get is a bonus.
c)buy 2 snickers bars and 20 1p sweets

In the beginning, the universe was created...
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 20:14
@the_winch

point taken but i didn't mean sell the games here... well... unless you have a great game and plan to sell it with all the source code, now that would catch the attention of lots of forum users

@C2K

a) simple bank transfer (kinda embarrasing transfering £1 though )
b) well... you get what you put in.
c) if your really serious, save i guess.

virtual teams don't really work unless your doing it for the big bucks or for fun (preferably both ).

M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 22:27
There are lots of shareware developers who make simple games and still earn on it - a guy made simple old skool RPG's and although the article it came from was written in 1999, he claimed his games which had rough sound and graphics and no multiplayer were making six figures a year. Its all down to getting known, being persistent, and working hard.

It always seemed there was a big shareware games industry in Germany a few years ago.... wonder if its still going strong?

Ian T
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 22:34
Depends on how good it is, dosen't it?

www.spidweb.com sells shareware games made by the one guy and his wife. They're rather successful and have been around for a long time. There's a bedroom coder icon to aspire to.

zircher
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 23:11 Edited at: 3rd May 2004 23:14
3D Majhong is a good example of a DB game worth buying. And, Starwraith has sold quite a few copies. DUO and several of the alienware games have made it to my son's hard drive. I'm sure if shareware versions existed he'd ask for the $$$ to buy the full versions.

Is ExGen made with DB? I know that FPSC is on my son's to-get list and it is certainly based off of DB technology if not complete written in it.
--
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soapyfish
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Posted: 4th May 2004 00:07 Edited at: 4th May 2004 00:08
Quote: "Its all down to getting known, being persistent, and working hard."


Couldn't agree more and you know all this talk has made me think about maybe earning a little extra pocket money myself.

code2kill

MikeS
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Posted: 4th May 2004 00:30
Hmm, would I pay for a DB game? Probably, although like most here, it depends on the games quality.

$20 top for any DB game made by an Indi developer.



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Toby Quan
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Posted: 4th May 2004 01:35
Quote: "How many of you would honestly pay money for a DBP game?"


I would.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th May 2004 01:43
Personally I never buy a game I can't play the demo of first, apart from console titles; even then only GameCube ones are games i buy without trying, my mates have X-Box and PS2's so i wait til they have them and try them that way.

If your serious about selling your games though, there are a few things you need to make sure of in order for it to actually do relatively well.

1. Screenshots & Graphics; your game will be judged waaay before anyone actually plays it based on screenshots. Therefore you *must* make sure that the quality of the game is nice, and that you show off some of the most graphically impressive areas.
This might seem a little cheeky, but you don't want people turning away because your game looks bad.

If I can I will find two identical types of DB/P games created one of which is good and the other bad and explain why.
Right now don't have the time.

2. Additional Media available. A Game demo REALLY helps a user want to buy something as long as it doesn't reveal the entire game and just gives them a taster. Also rolling movies tends to also sway because you can see how the game looks in action not just statically.

3. Professional looking website. As most games are distributed through websites you must make sure yours is appealing and nice to use.

Again when i have time i'll go through a few websites and give some good and bad examples.
Generally speaking though try not to use dark colours, unless your game actually has a dark theme and even then you want to work with very good graphics to create the atmosphere of it being dark. Try not to over complicate it with too much flash or with gaudey graphics. Simple sites are quite frankly far more appealing than OTT ones with bad graphics...

4. Price & Market... Try to keep the price of the product aimed at not only your key market but also try to make the specifications you require also within that key market.

An FPS will relate to the Power Gamers, who have lots of power in thier PCs (but are often tight fisted buggers when it comes to games); so push the graphical envelope whilst offering the game at a cut-price.

A puzzle person doesn't care for state of the art graphics they just enjoy a challenge, pander to this and make sure it cna run on low specs; this market will often pay mid-range prices.

RPG markets are weird, they'll pay buckets for a game provided it gives them a long experience; yet they range from low-end to high-end pc users, so it is best to make the graphics very scaleable whilst kinda gouging them; and if it is an online game then sell the game cheap (or give it away free) then charge them double your costs for running a server for them

Alot of games retail is making it appealable to people without ever even playing it; if you can remember this then you might have a good carrer in Publishing (who earn a hell of alot more than us developer grunts)


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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 4th May 2004 02:05
Well explained Raven. I think that one thing that is worth shooting for whilst developing to put you in a better position when it comes to selling, is to make your game moddable, editable, anything that injects more life and doesnt just say 'well done, you did it' when the player finishes it. If your game takes off then this kind of thing can lead to a community of followers and modders building up - possibly improving your reputation even more and inviting along new players and potential sales.

adr
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Posted: 4th May 2004 02:13
Even if (and this is a big ass if here people) I managed to actually finish something that was worth playing, then I doubt I'd charge for it. I have a job - that's where my money comes from. I guess that's why I don't have any drive to finish any projects - because I don't plan to gain financially from it. Someone's gonna quote me here and it'll bite me in the ass one day, but I can't see myself charging for anything that I ever do in my leisure time.... you go at your own pace, do everything how you want to do it.

Developing games for fun should remain just that - for fun.

Oh and I agree with fallout - for something to make me get out my wallet it has to be fairly professional-looking. Yeah I'm shallow when it comes to PC Games/Apps... but so what? You want money off me, I want eye-candy.

stop();
hammertime();
Scouseknight
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Posted: 4th May 2004 03:17
If it was a good game and I enjoyed playing it then sure I'd pay.

I read up there this quote :

"Firstly, i wouldn't buy something i could easily make myself, and i'm sure many others would agree."

Some sort of genius there obviously - I see games that I know would take me personally years at least to get good enough to create - it's a little condascending if you ask me to suggeste we shouldn't pay money for things we enjoy just because it might be possible to do it ourselves - some of us don't have the ability or time so buying games is the only option - I could be an ace C++ programmer but that doesn't mean I don't buy games written in the language does it?

In short - if it's a good game that I consider worth the money then it doesn't matter if it's written in Dark Basic or anything else - I'd pay.

M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 4th May 2004 03:41
Well said ScouseKnight.

hexGEAR
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Posted: 4th May 2004 16:33 Edited at: 4th May 2004 16:43
hexgear said:

Quote: "Firstly, i wouldn't buy something i could "easily" make myself, and i'm sure many others would agree."


Scouseknight said:

Quote: "it's a little condascending if you ask me to suggeste we shouldn't pay money for things we enjoy just because it "might be possible" to do it ourselves"


i take "easily" and "might be possible" as two seperate things, heck it "might be possible" for me to make half life 2 (in a couple of centuries ) but it's very easy for me to make a lot of the games i see that were made in a couple of hours (and i'm talking db not c++, check the subject). I say easy in terms of time and effort, i won't buy games made with little effort within a small time margine when i can "easily" make it myself!

[edit]

for example, if someone makes a 5-hour pong game in black and white (i could easily make this), i won't even consider playing it, but over at Replacement RGT i saw this cool pong game twist (it might be possible for me to make this), you can immediately tell a lot of time and effort went into that game and i could actually consider buying it when it's completed.

Don Malone
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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posted: 4th May 2004 18:48
If you offer me something that grabs me then yes I will pay for it. I will not pay fifteen US dollars for a simple game and I most likely will not spend that money on the garden variety First Person Shooter.

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
Andy Igoe
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th May 2004 19:52
I would not pay for the games I have seen come from the DBP community so far, but I would not refuse to buy a game just because it was written in DBP.

If the gameplay was good enough, and the longevity of the game justified it, i'd buy a DBP game.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
soapyfish
21
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Joined: 24th Oct 2003
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posted: 4th May 2004 20:45
Like a lot of people have already said, the price is one of the most important aspects to think about when selling a game.(If you even want to sell it as adr pointed out.) To sell a game with any sort of success surely there arn't any perticular guidelines to follow, you have to look at the market there and then and decide on a good price. Choose one too low and you miss the chance to make a good profit, choose one too high and no-one will buy it. Ofcourse the one thing you can't do is change the price halfway through, this would mean either refunding all the customers that bought the game at the higher price or leaving them very angry and annoyed. Ofcourse lets not foget what adr DID say, you don't HAVE to sell a game and you would probably get much more respect giving games away then selling them or even trading games with other people.

code2kill

Don Malone
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Apr 2003
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posted: 5th May 2004 07:29
If you have a game with professional visuals (not cutting edge but good) and your game has depth and twenty hours of gameplay or more than you could charge a high price. You can't do a game like that alone though. You have to have Level creators who specialize in creating interesting and deeply involving levels like Half Life had/has. A modeler who works on getting the best visuals in the models and possibly and animator to get the best animations possible. An artist would be great help for back ground and texture design and of course a good programmer who would most likely second as program director if there was not a stand alone position created to make sure all aspects of the project mesh and were/are following the original design concept.

It can be done I think.

But it wont be easy.

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.

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