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Work in Progress / vanMESH Progress

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Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 12th May 2004 11:20
Hi all,

Been working on vanMESH, namely a UV coord editor built right into the main view - can't tell much from the screenies, but it already allows live UV mapping which is gonna make things so much easier.

I have to overhaul the interface before adding much more, but it is shaping up nicely and is my priority right now, hopefully have a beta out in around a month.





Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
walaber
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 12th May 2004 12:05
wow! looks really nice!! I assume you're still waiting on U6 to actually get vertice editing working?

also the perspective view seems really dark... I assume it'll be lighter eventually?

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Van B
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Posted: 12th May 2004 12:12 Edited at: 12th May 2004 12:16
Nah, I can vertice edit already, in fact I could finish it off without patch 6 - I do need better control over the mesh though, and it I'd like to be able to adjust single vertices to keep things smooth and quick on the actual model. It uses an internal coord system rather than a memblock, each update it recreates the mesh from the data. It's really the only way to make a modelling app in DB, you sorta have to see the mesh as simply a preview and concentrate on the data. My next step is to overhaul the UI, then I can get onto primitives and extruded lines etc, the next screenie I post will be a mesh created inside vanMESH I promise.

The 3D views are both pretty dark, probably because there's no lighting on the models themselves - they're vertice lightmapped and the mesh starts off black when lightmapping so it can be fairly dark sometimes. Does'nt help that I have a super-bright LCD monitor either, I never notice the darkness until I post screenies here .


Hey, anyone else think the captain dude looks a bit like Ravey?


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
walaber
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Posted: 12th May 2004 13:13
sounds pretty sweet. What are you thinking for an interface... will you be making a custom interface, or go with the BLUE GUI?

I used BLUE for all of my dev tools for snowball fight, made development a hell of a lot faster.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Van B
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Posted: 12th May 2004 13:21
Yeah from what I've seen of Blue GUI it certainly does a good job. I probably won't go for a standard windows look, most likely make a hand drawn GUI for it - it's cool though, I have twelfty hundred GUI making tricks up my sleeve . I'm thinking that most of the features will be hidden until needed, like you'll probably only see a tool box and the 4 views most of the time. The menu system is already added and working nicely, it's hidden unless you move the mouse to the top of the screen.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th May 2004 18:29
Looks neat! So is this like moving UV's over a model in real-time. I have to uv some heads soon, and maybe this will help me.

M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 12th May 2004 18:40
Wow, thats impressive Van. All in DB, no external DLL's or anything?

Van B
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Posted: 12th May 2004 19:21
Pincho,
Yeah the uv stuff on the left is all pretty standard, but you don't often get to adjust the UV data and see it affect the model in realtime. UVing is a black art that takes practice, but a huge hurdle is actually understanding fully how it works - 5 minutes with this and anyone will understand how UV mapping works. Currently it can only export memblock format models (which you'd load then convert to a mesh) - but I am planning on tackling .X exporting soon and .3DS exporting will follow. The actual file format I have in mind is probably quite similar to .X Ascii, except with all the C coder incomprehensible crap that comes with it. It may be possible to get a .DBO export working soon too because you can hack the .dll's to allow mesh saving.

Moonshine,
Yeah it's 100% DBPro, and much to my surprise it runs really smoothly. To be honest I expected that drawing 1500 lines and points in DBPro would be slow, but DBPro holds it's own. I've been sensible though, each viewport is a seperate bitmap that gets updated only when it needs to - even the UV texture bit runs smoothly when dragging points despite DBPro's image scaling disabilities.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
David T
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Posted: 12th May 2004 22:20
As always, very impressive Van

Mussi
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Posted: 12th May 2004 22:49
hey vanB, how are you doing the wireframes and stuff? I'm using lines in my editor but it isn't very fast and you can't put them behind objects eighter.



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Surreal Studio IanG
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Posted: 12th May 2004 23:18 Edited at: 12th May 2004 23:20
VanB - it's looking good

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MikeS
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Posted: 12th May 2004 23:30
Looking great Van B. Don't know if it's just me, but I'd say this project is really picking up.

Someday this could be the standard 3D modeler for this community based on what I've read from LLRGT and here.

Keep us updated as always.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
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Posted: 13th May 2004 01:24
this cant be darkbasic !!!!!
i mean .... how is ti possible to do the uvw stuff ????
i mean, how do you make the uvs to work, i mean, in top of the texture ?

I will make urban chaos 2, ive already concepted the story, its my dream, i wont to go to muky foot
Van B
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Posted: 13th May 2004 14:45
Thanks guys

The lines are just standard DB lines, although I am drawing to a bitmap with locked pixels - so really it's quite an optimised drawing system because I only need to update the bitmaps when I have to - the rest of the time their just pasting their contents onto the screen. The front, back, top, left etc views are drawn with lines which are simply calculated from the data. The 3D view gives a 3D wireframe variation where you can do everything you can in the 2D views - I just used a dummy object to get the screen location of each vert.
It is very easy to make DBPro slow down to a crawl with 2D, all you can really do is make your code as neat as possible so experimenting isn't too troublesome. It's always good to be able to impliment pasted sprites instead of copying bitmaps, and being able to quickly exclude anything that does'nt need drawn.

The UV texture is a hidden sprite that is scaled and pasted to the screen - copying bitmaps with scaling is a very bad idea, it's very slow. Put this way I was close to giving up on vanSKETCH until I got the pasted sprite working instead of the copy bitmap - now that's progressing nicely alongside this too.

I am working more now, have more time these days and I like working on apps. I was actually shelving this until patch 6, but I've decided to press on with this and vanSKETCH and hope that I don't have to change too much.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Mussi
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Posted: 13th May 2004 18:35
I'm using the same technique as you but it's way to slow for high poly models



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Van B
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Posted: 14th May 2004 14:34
Yeah it's not blindingly fast, I actually did a few tests yesterday to guage my speeds.

On a 1.1ghz Athlon with a GF2 doing...

Moving the verts
Displaying the verts and lines
Checking the mouse for selection on each vert
Drawing the grid
Copying the screen

With 1500 polygons and about 2000 verts I was getting 7fps - which is actually ok for general use. When messing around pretending to be a modeller, it was running at around 25fps with what I had on screen. I'm not really gearing this up for too high poly count models, it's more for character design and smaller mesh design - more like Milkshape than anything really.

I'm starting on a script system so that each tool will be based on a mini-language. This might sound like I'm going round the houses, but really it's the neatest option - plus it leaves the gate open for people to easily write their own tools and primitives. vanMESH is becomming more like a modelling engine that runs with a main script with smaller scripts attached at runtime.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Jess T
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Posted: 14th May 2004 15:15
Wow...

Sounds very nice. I'm surprised that you managaed to get that much speed... Very impressive work

Also, the expandability and script engine sounds very nice too

Keep up the good work Van

Jess.


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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 14th May 2004 22:54 Edited at: 14th May 2004 23:03
Looking very nice . Can't wait to try out a demo. I am trying to make an interface similar to that for my track editor. I am using get image to transfer the bitmap to sprite, and that seems very slow, it slows down to ~12fps for a 400x400 image capture. Are you using that method or have you found some other way?

Woah, wait a mo... paste bitmap increases it to 1000fps+. Solved my problem .

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Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 20th May 2004 20:24
This is looking brilliant

Would this output models with the new uvmapped texture in *.x? Ie load in a pre made *.x with a basic texture, and remapp it real time, stretching and allocating points?

If so it could become high on my list of most useful things ever

The forum user formerly known as Kangaroo2.
If the apocalypse comes, email me
Van B
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Posted: 21st May 2004 14:43
It certainly will. I always struggle with UV mapping, it's so time consuming, boring, annoying, and just plain unpleasant. vanMESH won't make it any more exciting, just less annoying because you have overall control - you can select a vert and see straight away what that vert is, the UV data is actually treated as if it was vertice position data. One nice feature I've added is that you can display the normal and vertice colour on the UV map too - so if you wanted you could lightmap the model then use the vertice data on the UV editor to show the light source. Should make UV mapping a whole different sport.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 21st May 2004 17:03
Fantastic! Just what I need. I hate UV Mapping its laborious and boring, this will make it so much easier. I await this with baited breath, it sounds a really unique and worthwile project

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Peter H
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Posted: 21st May 2004 18:10
this looks cool! Great job Van-B!

(i always hate not being able to see my model in real-time while UVing )


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Ian T
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Posted: 21st May 2004 19:02
Looking VERY neat. What a great month for DarkBASIC .

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