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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Holding off on buying DB Pro

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 4th Dec 2002 02:36
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I have used Blitz and it compares well to DB1 but DBPro blows it out of the water. As 4 buying DBPro, I would recommend you do, familiarise yourself with the many great features that DO work, and wait patiently for the others. I too am finding it frustrating, and I agree with your comments on us 'paying to be beta testers' but at the end of the day this is a hugely ambitious project which the (small) team are fully committed to. If this was a major Microsoft release I would take it back and demand my money back (as I did with WinME, slightly happier with XP partitioned with 98) but its not, and I think the extra money and perceverance we all put in will encorage the dbteam to make this something special.

As for Blitz comparisons, has any1 tried DIV2 (I haven't yet)? DIV1 was pretty good for 2d games...

* If the apocalypse comes, email me *
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 4th Dec 2002 12:12
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Ah, recent flame bait threads remind me of the old days. I keep expecting Postmon to pop up ..Anyone who's ever programmed in the software industry will know that you pick up and use a product as soon as its available, to get to grips with it, and to understand it, especially if its a new technology (which DBP is). I'm not sure how you can realiably judge a product fit without using it - believe me, the complaints about DBP on the forums are misleading in most cases. There ARE issues, but thats life in this industry. It comes with the turf. As a bonus, they are being resolved, and rapidly, and we're listened to by the DB team. The "what I want to do doesn't work yet" argument is thin, becuase there are a million things around your area of concern that you can be doing. One of them is learning the language As an example, I need the free flight commands working, and its a pain they are not - but my toys are still in my pram, becuase I know the fix is coming. Meantime I'm focussed on my collision detection routines, AI, level sectoring, the list goes on..
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Kale
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Posted: 4th Dec 2002 14:43
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i just haven't the time or patience to write work-arounds for things that are going to be fixed! I'll get more stuck into it when patch4+ comes out and we have a more stable/useable language.

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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Rob K
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Posted: 4th Dec 2002 15:30
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http://www.blitzshowcase.com

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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TheNVS
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Posted: 4th Dec 2002 15:59
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relax... dbpro had came out for people who wanted it so badly like me. i bought it, happy with all the features that were added, and did not complain about all the bugs. i kept using dbv1. for sure the bugs are going to be fixed especaily all the bugs that are reported by the programers. just give the team a break and time.

i dont use dbpro for several reasons but use dbv1 a lot. one is i need to work with my math equations. the other is there is still a lot of features in dbv1 that i dont know and need to know about. and if i try to work in dbpro with my math problem, i dont know if it is me or the program. i am talking about complex math.

for those that are newbies, i sugest that you work with dbv1 before complaining the bugs in dbpro.


surely anyone could detect bugs from using the program making games when it came out. you will find one for sure if you are into it. but i am sure it is hard for the team to read all the bugs and problems found, fix the bugs without using a program as simple as dbpro and dbv1, and do some other daily things that needs to be done.

for the people who found the bugs and reported it, i think you made it a little easier for the team instead of the team trying to find the bugs themselfs in their own program. when i test my game for bugs, it is really hard. i would not like to play my game for hours to find one bad bug. it is a lot easier for someone to have fun playing your game and tell you the bugs. even the bad hiden bugs. and dppro is used so much to make a game that there could be a really bad hidden bug that must be reported. there has to be a lot of hidden bugs in dbpro. especaily when a lot of very cool features are added and is a language.

things will hopefully shape up in the future
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Deion
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Posted: 4th Dec 2002 20:58
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is that all that blitz can make no offense but it looks well like crap is the only words that come to mind. and i tried thinging of soemthing nicer to say

Cheers,
Deion G.
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heartbone
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Posted: 4th Dec 2002 21:28
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Thanks for the link Darth Shader.
I click on it and ended up here
http://blitz.idigicon.com/home.asp

Their featured program is BINMAN (BUY IT NOW) 9 mb and I am on dialup and the server doesn't support my download manager? Forget that.

In the gallery there are only unfinished programs and demos.
This speaks volumes. I downloaded the Car demo and the LunaC unfinished game and will take a look.

If Blitz is as difficult to use as it looks, one should charge for a finished program.
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Battlemagi
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Posted: 4th Dec 2002 23:06
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http://www.blitz3d.co.uk has some demos

I'll likely purchase DBPro and check it out by christmas, I like DB1, just held off due to all the bugs, looks like patch 2 and 3.1 has fixed quite a few of them. No need to slam other languages. To me, they are all tools in my toolchest.

=Battlemagi

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ZomBfied
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Posted: 5th Dec 2002 00:07
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Blitz is cool, and I've yet to see someone make a friggin bsp game that works in dbp besides the demo. I guess the real test is the games like what's a cooler than Star Wraith 3 game made in Blitz, etc.

I'm stickin' with dbp cause I know it and I don't wanna start over again, and they'll get the bugs ironed out. They always do. Keep on it guys!

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Megaman X
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Posted: 5th Dec 2002 01:06
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It's very very simple what is happenning. When DBpro was first announced, it should be something to revolutionate the gamedev. All this is thanks to DBS who even made a nice thing like chococale box showing the "features" for DBpro last Xmas ( who does not remember it? ) Or nice comments, always from DBS saying how fast 2D, I also even heard, I think from Rick saying "Time to steal the 2D crown from BB"...

The truth many does not wanna hear is... BlitzBasic kicks the old DB arses, and currently it also does over DBpro. It's just too many bugs to develop a game with. The colisions system is as bugged as DB1, if not more. BB always had a nice colisions system.

The real thing is that everyone here is a big DB fan and are getting blind for it. Sorry to say that, once it was DB which launched me to the game dev. Many never ever tried BlitzBASIC, say it's obsolete, other compares with asm language... obviously they did not give a chance.

I really hope DBpro will get better in the future.. so was the DB1 when came out, bugged but got MUCH better. I really hope so cuz the creators are nice peoples, just think they were mistaken setting DBpro at too high expectation, so it's normal to have so much dissapointment....

Currently, BB is better then both DB and DBpro... in the future, we never know...

Once again, sorry...

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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striker25
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Posted: 5th Dec 2002 08:39
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Um....i have a small question..why did you tell us about your buying delay battlemagi? I mean...great..woohoo...good for you....


Hey everyone!! Im gonna stop doing borri's in the toilet from now on , or until Kleanex get better toilet paper..I.i mean MAN!!! have you noticed all the problems they have in the paper?? And it isnt as soft as they say on the ads...
i'm gonna tell..


btw, good to hear that you rethought your buying thing
regards
striker25

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Necrym
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Posted: 5th Dec 2002 09:30
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Look, to buy or not to buy is your own decision so do as you please its up to you just dont start these rediculous flamebait threads the forum should be used for more constuctive things such as sharing ideas and code etc.
I bought DBP because i found DB a bit limited and wanted more and DBP will probably have that soon enough they are going in the right direction its just that everyone is a bit impatient for it thats all. So buy and and and join the fun or shut up and wait until the perfect bug free version is released.........you may have a long wait.

Watch the bouncing cursor - now in 3d
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Kale
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Posted: 5th Dec 2002 14:32
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Quote: ".........you may have a long wait."

you dont seem to understand while we wait, we buy blitz and purebasic and don't look back.

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 5th Dec 2002 19:04
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This is true. If it takes too long I may have to port my game over to Blitz. I just wanna get it developed before it's obsolete, and currently DB pro simply can't do it. But it's just the many objects slow bug. Once that is gone, then woo hoo it's game city. I mean if the speed is consistent with many objects and no huge slowdown (slower than db1) then cool.
Baring this bug, I don't know how Blitz beats DB Pro in it's current form. I can't figure out if it has UDTs or not. If not then it sucks right there. Is there something like Memblocks where you can directly access things like wav and bitmap files? call dlls? DB Pro is pretty darn powerful and it seems more intuitive to learn --but then I'm also kind of used to it.

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EdzUp
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Posted: 5th Dec 2002 21:52
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Personally I dont care what language anyone codes in I code in numerous languages (to numerous to mention), ATM tho I prefer Blitz over DBPro simply because of the:
Load Object "mymodel.x",1:Mymodel=1
over
Global MyModel = LoadEntity("mymodel.x")

Also the fraggin CD Check on compiling, surely Lee should realise this just irritates ligitimate users who adjust/compile thier code. To have to keep hunting the CD is a fraggin pain in the arse IMHO. If I wanted a CDCheck every 100 compiles I would have put it in, I will hope this gets removed in the future because as it stands it makes DBPro unprofessional (I dont get asked for the MSVC++ 6 CD every 10 compiles or the DB CD not even the Blitz3D CD so why DBPro?).

I prefer having variables pointing to meshes instead of numerous variables etc. Also the IDE still needs work, no matter what I do it wont add the icon to the EXE or remember it in the project file, yes I know blitz has its rocket icon but at least I can ResHack that out (ResHack on a DBPro EXE causes the exe to stop working ).

I have been with DB since 1.04 so I have been here a long time but easy coding in all about what you want to put into it, and for those who say Blitz is harder than ASM or 'punch cards' maybe you should give it a little more time.

Also for those of you still awaiting the 'amazing' game check out www.blitzcoder.com and look at some of the up and coming stuff on there, of course like any showcase you will have to sort the wheat from the chaff but there are some really nice gems there. I have yet to see any from the DBPro camp.

I will still look at DBPro on occasions (downloading the patches as they become available)

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Battlemagi
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Posted: 5th Dec 2002 21:53
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Quote: "Um....i have a small question..why did you tell us about your buying delay battlemagi? I mean...great..woohoo...good for you...."


Well let's see. I was *really* hoping to buy DBPro when it first came out, mainly because the massive number of claims coming out of the developers on what the language could do. These claims were patently FALSE. The software couldn't do half of what they claimed because it was riddled with major bugs. The developers decided to release the software in beta state, and let the user community have it before it was ready.

I was pissed off. And I didn't want other people to fall into the trap. So I posted my thoughts in the GENERAL DISCUSSION FORUM for DBPro. It's totally appropriate to speak my mind about this, because I have been a registered user of DB since v1.0. I even bought the upgrade pack when it came out. I have every right to air this problem.

Quote: "Look, to buy or not to buy is your own decision so do as you please its up to you just dont start these rediculous flamebait threads the forum"


No I was not trying to start a flame war, and I am personally sorry that some admin decided to tag it with a red FLAMEBAIT tag - I think that's a joke. Nothing I've said in this forum isn't true.

The user community who supports DBPro regardless of how buggy it was released started the flaming, not me. If you notice, i've never responded to a single flame, I simply ignored them.

At this point, since not much is going on constructive with this thread, the admin should probably lock it, or simply remove this thread. I really don't care. But slamming other languages that are perfectly good at what they do, or slamming me for posting my opinions on the subject of DBPro being buggy (which it is), is simply wrong.

Now, can we all get back to some coding and making some cool games?


=Battlemagi

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Kale
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Posted: 6th Dec 2002 01:27
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i've been a user of DB since v1.03 and have all DB related upgrades/expansions etc... so i think a rant from me once in a while is justified too! DBPro should not of been released when it was, Lee & Co. shouldn't have given in to user demand, it has only given DBPro a bad name, from which it might never recover. I do however recognise the effort the DB team are making over getting out new patches asap even if its not too evident in some posts i make (its just my fustration), but when you add that dangerous word, 'Pro' to a title, it has to be,.....well,... Professional, in build AND quality ...'nuff said!

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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TheNVS
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Posted: 6th Dec 2002 03:08
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"from which it might never recover."

it will recover. if the team is working hard now and continues, this language will be very awlsome and bugless in maybe 5 months or less. for sure in about 2 years later or less than 1 year, some of us will say "hey, remember the time dbpro was so F. buggy in the old days. yeah, we all could not program for S. in that language. it was driving all of us crazy. i remember the time when there was a big flamebait over it"... if the team does not go bankrupt or nothing bad happens to the team that stops the production. i hope not.

"that dangerous word, 'Pro' to a title, it has to be,.....well,... Professional, in build AND quality ...'nuff said!"

at this rate of fixing bad bugs and the team's hard work for the language, the bugs will die out and the program will become that word. but while the bugs are being fixed, we are at the time where the powerful basic language is a little weak and under construction. and after 1 year. a lot of newbies will come and not know the history of the language and see it is powerful.

"DBPro should not of been released when it was"

i am glad it came out at this time. i think the bug fix speed up really much because of a number of bugs reproted.
i dont think it matters if you buy it or not at the time. like other people said, you could buy it now and it won't cost as much as if you buy it later. but i think the cost will increase because of its value later on...when its good. i dont know. it being released now is not too bad it being released later. its almost the same. i think it is better.

"we buy blitz and purebasic and don't look back."

sorry to hear that but it seems that you are still going to buy blitz and purebasic and don't look back even when the dbpro comes out late. but go ahead. when you come back to darkbasic, you will see it as a powerful professional basic language.

plus, professional means professional. dbpro is professional and quailty right now. see all the features added. except it needs to be fixed and bugless. it could be called the buggy dbpro. bugs dont affect if it is pro or not.

well, this is i strongly think.

btw,
if you_start_a_flamebait_with_me=1
which_i_dont_want_you_to=1
i_reply#=0
else
if you_start_a_flamebait_with_me=0
i_reply#=.5
endif
endif


THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!
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Van B
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Posted: 6th Dec 2002 11:17
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Blah blah blah blah blah blah...

Must we go through this bull again?

I got DBPro last weekend, I started an app project on Monday, It'll be finished this weekend - I'm sorry was there loads of bugs that were sposed to make that impossible?.

Spend less time bitching and more time coding and you'll get more done.


Van-B
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heartbone
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Posted: 6th Dec 2002 11:54
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What Van B said.
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DMXtra
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Posted: 6th Dec 2002 12:04
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I own Blitz and in a lot of ways its almost as bad off as DBPro, except dbpro had a much harder time with bugs.

Blitz 3D has less features, has a terrible architecture, has some bugs (not as many as DBPro had), it has had no issues with backwards compatiblity because its never been on the PC before and its never been in 3D, it also supports Direct X 7 which will work with more computers than Direct X 8.1+.

Blitz 3D is like using a badly architected setup with very little if any expandability for the future. The syntax is getting more and more C like, might as well use C++ with OpenGL and the graphics abilties are more Akin to 3DFX's old Glide. Blitz 3D also gets a lot less support than DBPro. Taken 14 months just to seperate the IDE from the compiler. Thats not progress... You also pay $150.00 dollars for this and its simply not worth it IMO.

Currently Blitz 3D is more stable than DBPro, however, its taken them 2 years for 2D and 1 year for 3D to get them to this point.

I am on DBDN and I know whats going on with the future of DBPro and its very sweet.

You are getting what you were promised and more so for free, so I honestly can't see what the problem is. If you had to pay for updates or you didn't get them at all, I can understand, but come on...

I don't even use Blitz 3D anymore. There was a time when I was using it when Dark Basic Classic was out and that was it, but now that Dark Basic Pro is out, I have switched over from Blitz to Dark Basic Pro. Since I am on DBDN I have seen a lot of interesting things going on and I have seen that code speedup. Going from 20 frames per second to over 300 frames per second with tons of cubes on the screen rotating on an Athlon 900 Mhz machine.

Dark Basic Pro -- The luxury for game programmers everywhere
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Megaman X
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Posted: 6th Dec 2002 17:18
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BB is currently better and it's language has a better structure... like in DB u have set numbers to the objects as ("Load Object "mymodel.x",1") that's not good. When u have many objects u mess up their numbers and what they are for.. same to everything needs to be loaded with DB. It's also no need to separete the editor from the compiler... those things are irrevants...

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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Van B
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Posted: 6th Dec 2002 17:33
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Ohh, so you've never had 10 copies of the same object?, I suppose you'd give them all names depending on their personality? like "nastyenemy=loadobject("blah.x")" and "nastierenemy=loadobject("blah.x")" and "nastiestenemy=loadobject("blah.x")"

Ok, I'm being sarcastic, sorry. The point is, there's infinately more flexibility in using numbers to refer to the object, you can organise them how you like, that's our job, not the interpreters. I mean is it really a lot of trouble writing a list of your objects or setting them to use variables, hold on that's pretty much what BB does! - sorry did'nt you know that DX refers to it's objects as numbers? - pah, you should really get onto Microsoft and tell them that DX should give the objects names instead.

For example, how would you code this:

For N=1 to 37
Position Object N,sin(ang+(n*10))*100,cos(ang+(n*10))100,sin(ang+(n*10))*100
Next N

You can argue which code looks better (DB or Blitz), but at the end of the day it's all upto the user to decide and choose, I've looked at BB code and quite frankly I'll never use it, I'd rather code in Spectrum basic.


Van-B
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Bitmap
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Posted: 6th Dec 2002 18:45
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I myself prefer the BB way using handles instead of numbers. You can always store the handles in an array thus faking the use of numbered-id but there are times where you need handled approach and there's no way around it. Now, I bet, you want an example

Ok, here's what I made while playing around with blitz demo

menu = CreateMenu()
file_id = AddTopLevelItem(menu, "File")
AddSubItem(file_id, "Exit to windows")
DrawMenu(menu)

very easy to use menu system that I can re-use in every project (well, I don't have the full version. but assuming I would) without any re-coding

I did this by using memory banks. If I'd want to re-create this in DB, I'd have to use memblocks. The thing is - I don't know which memblocks are "free" thus I could try to create a memblock already created thus resulting in runtime-error (shame there's no error catching)


to those claiming they could very well use c++ and opengl/asm instead... go ahead, I'd like to see you try. Apparently you have no idea about what you're talking about

to those who flame and don't back-up their words I have nothing to say. I have no real belief they have ever really tried BB (or haven't given it more than an hour)

don't get me wrong. I'm still loving db as much as always. I just felt someone has to protect BB from these flames

thy boss
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Megaman X
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Posted: 6th Dec 2002 19:56
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BB rocks

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 6th Dec 2002 20:07
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Well It doesn't have endcase. I'll give it that.

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Kale
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lol

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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Mirthin
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Posted: 7th Dec 2002 20:56
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Is this thing still goin'? Give it a break

Who wants cake? I've got a little slice of hell for everyone.
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Chroma
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Woooooo! :\
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Necrym
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Great! buy blitz i aint stopping you LOL
I use other languages as well so no biggy - but i am interested in where DBP is going its got a lot of potential. So does Blitz if they ever get there as well so dont try and stack one product against another its unfair and unwarranted. What people seem to miss is that you are all gettting a development tool that is still and will always continue to evolve. You are just on the ground floor of the development so enjoy it and put positive input and help make it better or join the que of whiners and wait for the perfect language to come along all ready boxed up complete with ready made code for you.

Watch the bouncing cursor - now in 3d
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DMXtra
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BB is very overrated....

You can't use a constant to represent a number?
Thats news to me since I do that all the time.

woo woo, thats a real big deal. I might as well sell my DBpro now and start using BB since I can use a variable to use instead of a number. Lord knows I wouldn't want to use a contant in DBPro to do the same thing.

BB rocks if you have an old computer with a Voodoo card or you want to write Nintendo 64 games and love writing games from 4-5 years ago. Go nuts...

woopdie doo....

Dark Basic Pro -- The luxury for game programmers everywhere
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Megaman X
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Why everyone says BB uses OpenGL and would be working better in old VooDoo cards?. BB uses DirectX as well. But yeah, would work good also in older computers, diferently from DB and DBpro.

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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koehler
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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 11:33
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Bltz2dbpro,

you are simply a fool. BB rocks with pretty much any video card, and will be moving to OpenGL w/the BBMax.

When you can get a decent .bps demo running, then you can talk all the sh** you want. Until then, your complaints are simply those of a novice programmer offloading the blame on someone/thing else.

Study more, and before you speak, think twice.

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Arrow
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Ok, enough!!! I've just spent the last half-hour reading through all this grabage for what? To find out how pig-headed you are??? What next, we gonna start up the SNES vs. Genesis? Drop it! Who Cares? So you prefer DB or BB, I like beef more than ham, I don't go around yelling at people who injoy pork. It's a programing language, not a religeon. They all serve the same porpose, so knock off this macho crap, and grow up!!!

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
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Megaman X
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Posted: 13th Jan 2003 00:49
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I think u r the one who actually needs to grow up... have u seem how old this post was? It was a "DEAD" post and now u r bringing it up again... When a topic is over 15 days untouched, let it be men. Both koehler and Hito Hentai are bringing back a flamebait where the last reply was made by me and over one month ago... I can see now who needs to "grow up" and who is the "novice programmer" here around .

"A true warrior fights with skill, not anger..."

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Soyuz
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Posted: 13th Jan 2003 00:52
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Man those lightning bolt shooting warriors almost hypnotised me!

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koehler
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Posted: 13th Jan 2003 04:18
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Well, as someone who's skill set includes programming, for which I actually get paid to do, my comments stand.

As for being a weeks old post, you were stupid then, and not any less now. I've got a copy of BB, and was looking at possibly DBPro. However, the sheer amount of people bitching and whining about lack of commands to do the work for them, has made me rethink that, along with the beta nature of this 'Pro' product.

At least on the BB side, there appears to be a pretty high level of comprehension of prgramming as the science it is, a lot more professionalism in their forums, and 'responsiveness' from the author.

You really should consider starting here: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Campus/9449/game_prog.htm

Once you understand C, Pascal or Forth, then come back and bitch.

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Arrow
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Posted: 13th Jan 2003 05:05
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I check out all new posts, Evil Ryo. No wonder this forum got flamebate, I would think a month would give you anough time to chill out. Do yourself a favor, calm down, lay off the caffine, and stop insulting everyone that has a different opinion, you can avode that heart-attack at age 23. Loose the ego, man.

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Megaman X
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Posted: 13th Jan 2003 06:35
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"Once you understand C, Pascal or Forth, then come back and bitch". Well, if u r that good to use those languages, why the heck do u use BB?... Besides, u don't know how many languages I know, and it's not of ur business either .

Hito Hentai, u seens as an smart guy who just joinned the forum. My objective is not insult peoples of any kind, but please note this:

"
koehler :

Bltz2dbpro,

you are simply a fool"

See, that's insult peoples. This is the kind of kids who annoys these boards. They come here, pretend to understand all languages and master them, but even so, stick in Basic Forums...
I also have to say that this forum function of bringing back old topics when someone answer an older post is just useless, the real problems in this forum just don't get fixed...

"A true warrior fights with skill, not anger..."

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koehler
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Posted: 13th Jan 2003 11:17
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Well, if u r that good to use those languages, why the heck do u use BB?... Besides, u don't know how many languages I know, and it's not of ur business either .

Why?
Because like most people who like to program, I like taking a language and seeing what it can do. I like the mental challenge, but not the mental BS from people like you who simply want a command to do 'everything' for them.
Its people like you who 3D Games Creator GUI's are made for.
BB and possibly DB are meta-languages that are very interesting, and in many respects cut a lot of the low level drudge work out of programming 'for fun'.
Using C is not a problem, however BB and DB should make it that much easier to whip something up over a weekend.
They are quite similar to RAD-type languages like Java.

See, that's insult peoples. This is the kind of kids who annoys these boards. They come here, pretend to understand all languages and master them, but even so, stick in Basic Forums...

Sonny, if you can't take it, then don't dish it out.
I don't know nearly as many languages as I should, or wish I could. But I certainly expect that since I'm getting paid decent money to program, and you are not, that should settle this little pissing contest.

I also have to say that this forum function of bringing back old topics when someone answer an older post is just useless, the real problems in this forum just don't get fixed...

Actually, I find that this forum's practice of using flamebait icons, deleting threads and such to be rather oppressive.

Really, the software is rather beta here, and the only thing that anyone here seems to be expert at, is dissing a quite possibly better competitor.

Funny thing, there appear to be a lot of DB people at the other site, and they are half as immature as some here.

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Megaman X
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Posted: 13th Jan 2003 11:52
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I've seen many n00bs in this forum, u r the king of all idiots, I see no point of u insulting me here or DB. Beside, seems like 3D Game Creators are made FOR YOU, who seems to be failed in the other programming languages and needs something as a Game Creator, or else u should not be here... I think u should get banned for life here, really, besides being a useless man, agressive and wasting my time to reply you, u not adding a damn to the comunity. Look at u, u've just joinned the forum, your cheap talk won't make u being welcomed here, attacking DB in DB forum is a n00d childish attitude, and to end up... the languages u "suposely" know, are obsolete. What games can u do with Pascal... please n00b, don't make me laugh...
Just u to know, I won't read or answer this treat anymore, u pissed me off and I won't waste saliv with a newcomer kid as u...

Simply, if u don't like this forum, just come back to ur mom dress where u came from...or better, get a life. A paied programer... in ur dreams bub, in ur dreams...

"A true warrior fights with skill, not anger..."

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DMXtra
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Posted: 13th Jan 2003 13:25
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koehler,

You complain about people being immature and then you prove your point by your immaturity. Nice going...

I have been on the Blitz boards since 2001 so I have probably been there longer than you have. Its not any better there than it is here and there are a lot of people just as willing to show their ignorance over there as you are doing here.

What you don't see is the truth...

Go here....

http://www.blitzbasic.com/bbs/posts.php?topic=15864

With BlitzMax on the way sometime in the next 10 years (who knows when its coming out and good luck waiting for it).

I am not some kid, I am 34 years old with a college degree in computer science and I am making 75 thousand a year here in Southern Cali. I own Blitz 3D and I have been using it since 2001. I have stoped using it lately because of many reaons and I wish you good luck, but you are going to need it.

Blitz 3D is more stable than DBPro at this moment, but its not going to be updated much. Mark's got Blitz 2D, Blitz 3D, Maplet, BlitzMax, Blitz forums, Blitz website, his girlfriend and personal time of his own to worry about and tons of work as Blitz 3D is really showing its age. I have been with Blitz 3D for awhile and things have changed drastically, there was supposed to be a BSP compiler for Blitz 3D, but that was cancelled and BSP isn't really supported very well nor is DLL support.

Yes, Blitz 3D without a ton of work can make commercial games, but these are commecial games from four years ago. Halo is trying his best to add stuff to Blitz to make it a little more modern, but it locks up on almost every computer.

DBPro has a ways to go yet, but Blitz has a long, long, long way to go.

Dark Basic Pro -- The luxury for game programmers everywhere
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 14th Jan 2003 21:13
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You'll notice that I haven't commented much on this and I've already stated my opinions on BB earlier in the topic, but please Koehler STOP INSULTING PEOPLE! It doesn't help your case man. This was a dead topic, and Ryus last post there wasn't offensive. So why come back and stir up trouble? Ryu and the other guys here are Respected programmers, who just happen to like DB. You like BB, so what? If you are not interested in DB then stay away from the forums! For the record I own Dark Basic 1, Blitz Basic, and Dark Basic Pro. For the meantime I'm using DBPro, as it has the most advanced functions. However, IF BBMax ever comes out and is better than DarkBasicPro, I'm sure I'll start using that. Its people's own choice, man - chiiiiiill

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koehler
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Posted: 15th Jan 2003 11:07
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Evil Ryu - Stop whining. If you don't like being called names, then I'd suggest you not insult people to begin with. PS, noob's are people who like to talk smak like "u, u r", and in general prefer to see those people who disagree with them banned or censored.
However, it appears I was wrong, as you do seem to have agreed with me in a previos post:
"Currently, BB is better then both DB and DBpro... in the future, we never know..."




Bltz2dbpro - "BB rocks if you have an old computer with a Voodoo card or you want to write Nintendo 64 games and love writing games from 4-5 years ago. Go nuts..."

As someone who is apparently in the field, I'm surprised that you would out and out slam BB in that way, as that statement is very skewed and deceptive. Someone implying that BB only supports 3dfx cards on such a forum -is- definately not trying to be honest, IMHO.
Using BB, I think it would be pretty easy to make a Doom or Q1 clone. Yeah, its old, but it seems to work rather nicely here: http://melog.ch/dropper/
Or, here: http://www.leadwerks.com/singularity/

Lets see, they also have a nice little BltzRadio going: http:\\80.4.42.108:8000

Maybe I'm missing something, but what exactly does DBPro have going for it, since it is so obviously superior to BB?

Kangaroo2- I would agree. However, looking here: http://www.darkbasic.com/gallery.php , I don't see very much that is so 'advanced' compared to BB. In fact, quite the contrary. Aside from that, regardless of whether it were BB or DBPro, slagging off another product that seems to be having pretty successful work done with it, and even more, all being done primarily by 1 guy, is nothing to be sneered at, or repeating borderline lies about it.
That sort of activity is usually indictative of people attaching their self-worht and esteem to a product, instead of simply looking at them as tools.

BB appears to be the superior tool here, and one that does require more in the way of 'extra' programming.

However, I fail to see where DBPro's 'advanced' command set is having any real impact.

Got .EXE's

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 15th Jan 2003 20:22
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You're right - the examples and galleries are crap lol However once you get a hold of the software and try out a few of the advanced lighting, shading and shadowing effects, multiple split screens and massive framerate, you start to see the full potential

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Arrow
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Posted: 15th Jan 2003 22:33
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Yo, koehler, chill man, chill. Count to ten, jeeze. Can you post a message that's not attacking others? I thought that only Americans used the anonymity of the net to slam others to gain a higher self moral. Did it ever cross your mind that Bltz2dbpro was being, I don't know, FAIR? He pointed out both the plus and con of of BB and DBPro. Just cuz you don't want to hear about how you holy idol BB has it's flaws is no reason to go off in a sh*t fit. Really, if you spent nearly as mush time flaming others as you did programing maybe you could show us how much better BB is. I'm not impressed by words, koehler, if BB is so much better than DB or DBPro, then prove it!

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koehler
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Posted: 16th Jan 2003 09:46
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Kangaroo2 - If I can find the time, I will be doing just that. However, from the complaints around here, it just sounds like there are still too many bugs. If not, I would expect to see a lot more up to date demos on the gallery, no?

Hito- I simply disagree with Blitz2dbpro's character assasination of BB, and I'm not even a 'big' fan of it. But I do know that they seem to have a number of pretty high quality games and demo's out, I believe they even have some people selling games ( yeah 2D), haven't heard of that on DB Pro yet, and all in all they just seem to be 'doing it' the right way over there.
I stopped over here to check out the competition, and was surprised to see so many people (like BB2DBpro) either perpetrating falshoods, or outright lying about BB.
Yeah, maybe I should have expected it, this is the net after all, but still, its rather strange to see left-brained people acting like religious fanatics.

And, Really, if you spent nearly as mush time flaming others as you did programing maybe you could show us how much better BB is. , well 2-3 posts is certainly not -that- much time. However if its proof you want, you can look at my last post for some clues...

Funny, seems like there are a heck of a lot of pretty skilled DB people over there, but few BB'ers who've come over here.

Just why do you think that it?

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 16th Jan 2003 13:53
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There are bugs, but I started using DBP with Patch 3 and have had only minor problems. Its still perfectly pheasable to make good projects as it is, and Patch 4 in the next month or so should fix the only bugs annoying me at the moment

If you want you could check out my site at www.kangaroo2.com and download my Bounce Demo. Its not ground shattering or anything, but it only took around 4 hours for me to whap up, and its fun and graphically not bad

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Arrow
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Posted: 16th Jan 2003 18:03
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"Funny, seems like there are a heck of a lot of pretty skilled DB people over there, but few BB'ers who've come over here.

Just why do you think that it?"

Well, rather than do the obvious joke about there not being any skilled BB'ers, I'll insted point out that THIS IS A DARK BASIC FORUM!!! Untill I click this stupid thried I have no clue that there was BB. Have you ever even use DB? In all your lovly litle rants you keep saying that DBPro has all these nasty bugs, yet all posts so far indicate that never have used it. I don't make any comment about BB itself because I've never used it. If you've never used DBPro than you have no room to talk, and don't come back with "I read about all these bugs". I read that BB was crap.

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DMXtra
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Posted: 17th Jan 2003 12:58
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Quote: "
As someone who is apparently in the field, I'm surprised that you would out and out slam BB in that way, as that statement is very skewed and deceptive. Someone implying that BB only supports 3dfx cards on such a forum -is- definately not trying to be honest, IMHO.
[/B]
"


I am not saying this as a slam, I am telling the truth. Sure you can use it with any 3D card, but its not that advanced and really is more akin to 3D engines from at least 4 years ago. I own the product and while its nice and stable and you can do a lot of things with it, the problem is that you can not create the latest state of the art commercial games without using some external DLL's. You can however create games from five years ago that are of commercial quality.

Quote: "
Using BB, I think it would be pretty easy to make a Doom or Q1 clone. Yeah, its old, but it seems to work rather nicely here: http://melog.ch/dropper/
Or, here: http://www.leadwerks.com/singularity/
"


Singularity uses third party DLL's to make it do what it does and it crashes on just about every computer because of it. Singularity is now dead because of that problem. I assume you haven't been reading the Blitz boards.

Doom and Quake were from a long time ago. Try something like Doom III, Unreal Tournament 2003, Unreal II, or even Halo on Blitz 3D right at this moment. Good luck...

Blitz is more stable than Dark Basic Pro, no doubt about that, but its also OVER TWO YEARS OLDER than Dark Basic Pro.

Dark Basic Pro -- The luxury for game programmers everywhere
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