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Geek Culture / Who here is entering the retro compo at retro.org?

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JoelJ
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 04:51 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 06:40
just wondering? remake.org

Me and Jimmy are entering with a Lolo Remake.



    anyone sick of this image yet?
    Kentaree
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 04:53
    I hope to enter, I was going to do a remake of the original Zelda game, but I mightn't have eenough time for it, so I'm kinda looking for another good title.

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    soapyfish
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 05:04 Edited at: 13th Jul 2004 07:13
    I am, with a re-make of Joust and here's a screenie of what I've got so far(yes those graphics are ripped.)

    http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v222/code2kill/joust.png

    Preston C
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 05:08
    I am, remaking The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past.

    Cheers,
    Preston


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    OSX Using Happy Dude
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 05:19
    I am too...


    Are you sensitive enough?
    JoelJ
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 05:22
    code2kill, crop that image please, or post a link to it

    anyone sick of this image yet?
    Jimmy
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 05:39
    it's remakes.org you MORON

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    JoelJ
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 07:23 Edited at: 13th Jul 2004 07:25
    bahahaha im so silly, shame you cant change topic title :p

    anyone sick of this image yet?
    spooky
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 08:00
    I'm doing the speccy game 'splat'


    Boo!
    Jimmy
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 08:10
    Yeah Darwin, I'm sorry, MORON was a bit harsh, what I should have called you is a COMPLETE AND UTTER WASTE OF HUMANITY

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    Emperor Baal
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 08:25
    Quote: "COMPLETE AND UTTER WASTE OF HUMANITY"

    Don't refer to yourself Jimmy.


    Back on-topic.
    Im remaking the NES MegaMan 2. Here's a screenie of the bonus level.
    Still have to tweak the nasty robot, because if he touches you, it's bye bye



    And I'm currently working on the flashman stage. Luckily all stages are very small, allmost tiny

    Jimmy
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 08:28
    Looks cool Baal, even though you threw my insult in my face

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    Guhill The friendly one
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:20
    What's a retro game? No, I'm not j/k.

    Without hating, this world would be perfect.
    Jimmy
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:25
    You're NOT j/k or you ARE j/k??

    If not, a retro is an old game. Like on atari or nintendo. Remakes are remakes of them.

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    Guhill The friendly one
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:29
    Oh, I KNOW WHAT A REMAKE IS!!! Sorry for the shouting, would "Snake", a cellphone game be considered retro. Because it would be fun to remake that.

    Without hating, this world would be perfect.
    Preston C
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:29 Edited at: 13th Jul 2004 11:32
    By the rules of the Retro Remakes competion, Retro is anything 16 bit or less, or like Jimmy said, an old game.

    [Edit] Err...

    Quote: "would "Snake", a cellphone game be considered retro. Because it would be fun to remake that."


    No, don't. You should see the snake remake I entered last year, back when I couldn't program anything for my life really. I was two positions away from last

    But then again, it was crap, not just snake


    Cheers,
    Preston


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    Jimmy
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:32
    "No, I'm not j/k"

    Well then were you just being sarcastic or is the 'not' a typo

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    Lord Ozzum
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:34
    no, he meant he knows what a remake is, just not what a retro is

    WWSD?
    Guhill The friendly one
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:37
    @Ozzum : Thanx for clearing that up

    @Preston : You mean it only took you a year to become an awesome darkbasic coder!?

    Without hating, this world would be perfect.
    Preston C
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:47
    Actually...after the compo last year, I really didn't code much until up to last March (which is really the reason I never completed my horrible entry for the Alienware compo). Usually helps with me, when I don't do something for a long time, and I get back to it, I have better motivation and I end up doing things much better than before.

    But then again, I'm not awesome, just...good, theres still much better than me, VanB, Hamish, MikeS, etc.

    Right, back on topic, theres gotta be more people than just this making remakes for the compo. Show yourselves, all of you!

    Cheers,
    Preston


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    hyrichter
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 12:10
    I've been remaking a Mario type game, but I started about 3 months ago, so it wouldn't be qualified. But I probably won't have it finished by the time the comp ends anyway.

    Shadow Robert
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 16:22
    Quote: "Oh, I KNOW WHAT A REMAKE IS!!! Sorry for the shouting, would "Snake", a cellphone game be considered retro. Because it would be fun to remake that"


    Well sort of...
    The earliest incarnation of Snake is actually from Microsoft, with thier 1982 game called; Nibblers.
    This was for the 8086/88 PC which was an 8/16bit Machine (and I actually played it to death on an 8088 XT), finally got ahold of the source recently too which was kinda sweetness.

    The rules for a Retro game state clearly it must be a 8/16bit game.
    This mean the Gameboy Advance, GameCube, N64, Playstation, Dreamcast, Saturn, X-Box and Playstation2 games are not Retro.

    We'll break this down further though just for clarification:
    1976-1981 : This is the Dawn of Gameing, no seriously the first game ever made was in 1976 in a California University by 2 Computer students. It was called Space Wars, the game was very very cool indeed; You had 2 Ships, one for each player and you could move it forward or rotate from side to side. If you flew off the screen you'd appear on the other side. The idea was to shoot your opponent without getting hit. Often mistaken for the first game is Asteriods by the guy who founded Atari (the first ever games company). Astroids differed from Space Wars in the fact it was Single Player and you had to blast asteroids.

    The orignial game was actually a project from the students to show simulated physics on a computer, it's amazing the whole gameing industry came out of a class project from 2 physists, eh!

    1981-1985 : This is the 8bit Era 'Tape' Period. During this time people at home finally got the chance to use computers in thier home, althought most quickly became pure games machines.. before this you could only really buy computer games like Pong and Space Invaders. This was also the Birth of the 'Bedroom Programmer', a period which basically kicked off the games industry from purely those who have years of experience to be able to produce titles to kids and adults who could sell thier creations. ALOT of games companies still going today started during this period by getting small teams together and creating games.

    1986-1991 : The Console Age. Still part of the 8bit era, this is when the very first consoles hit the public eye. I say public eye, because SEGA were the very first ppl to release a console in 1984 called the Master System. It was the *only* ever tape based console, and really wasn't any different to the Master System 2 released in 1986, apart from the fact the MS2 took cartridges.
    But this is also when Nintendo finally hit the home market with the synominous NES/FAMICOM. 1986 saw the start of a rivalry that lasted over a decade!
    1987 saw the release of something else which also didn't change in a decade, the Gameboy.
    Although during this period the Amiga was a full blown 16bit machine and PC had the 16bit 386 processor and 32bit 486 processor; the games produced during this period were still being produced for to simply be slightly better looking varations on thier 8bit editions. (no one really took advantage of the power of the 16bit machine until late 1991 when David Brahbam released the phenominal EliteII which was Amiga's best selling title of all time!)

    1992-1995 : This really is the Golden Age, and when 16bit Consoles took over almost everyones living room. It wasn't hard to choose really// SNES/SUPER FAMICOM, Mega Drive/Gensis, Jaguar and CD32.
    These consoles were revolutionary for thier time.
    The Jaguar was actually the first 64bit Machine ever, they beat Intel/IBM/Nintendo to this goal but 3years. Which was some feat, pitty the console sucked harder than an etheopian leech.
    Only good thing to come from it was Aliens vs Predator.

    This my friends is your cut off point. Every game made after '95 (and some of '94 in Japan when the Playstation was first released) equal the 3rd Console wars... and no longer considered part of the 8bit/16bit Age range.

    Really if your worried about something being old enough do the colour test. If it used more than 256colours onscreen at once then it's not old enough

    //..
    Recently started my entry for the competition. It's based on Pirates! that loveable 1990 Sid Meier Game about jackin' people at sea hehee
    Should be alot of fun doing the artwork and the engine.
    Only unlike most here or even at Retro Remakes i'm using C++ w/DirectX 9.0c was thinking of using PureBASIC, but considering it was a bitch to convert the Dx9 libraries and i'm still not finished I can't be arsed as it's just adding too much time to be worth it.

    Jimmy
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 17:56
    Quote: "This mean the Gameboy Advance, GameCube, N64, Playstation, Dreamcast, Saturn, X-Box and Playstation2 games are not Retro."


    You know, you could have ended it there, but no, you had to pull a Raven and be like, now let's see how much brain poauwahs I have in my brain mauscle. Look at me flex, I'm such a maunly mahn.

    Seriously, not too many people care if you know everything, so maybe you could tone it down, save some space in the ol database.

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    Shadow Robert
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 18:05
    I just wanted to make sure everyone knew what consoles/games would be acceptable, cause there would bound to be a question like the Cellphone one; Can't plan for every eventuality question but that should dossile alot of them.

    empty
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 18:33 Edited at: 13th Jul 2004 18:40
    The original Spacewars was created in the early 60's by Steve Russell at the MIT.

    Quote: "The Console Age. Still part of the 8bit era, this is when the very first consoles hit the public eye. I say public eye, because SEGA were the very first ppl to release a console in 1984 called the Master System."

    Erm, Atari VCS 2600? Or even earlier the MagnaFox Odyssey or Atari's HomePong?

    Play Nice! Play Basic! Check it out. Now.
    flibX0r
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    Posted: 13th Jul 2004 19:23
    I'm entering with the old C64 game Choplifter


    http://www.jellystudios.tk
    Current Project: Choplifter Remake
    JoelJ
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 06:28 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 06:39
    i got as far as:
    Quote: "Well sort of..."

    in ravens post before i noticed who was writing, and i just stoped and when to the next post

    anyways:
    BACK ON TOPIC MORONS :p


    and raven, crop that post of yours or post a link to it, it hurts my finger to scroll that much for nothing

    anyone sick of this image yet?
    ReD_eYe
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 06:43
    Quote: "Can't plan for every eventuality question but that should dossile alot of them"


    Nah, not really. You didn't plan for the fact that the kind of people that might/will ask questions like that(me) are far too lazy to read a post of that length, i stopped reading after you listed the consoles... and, infact, nearly misinterpreted and thought you could only remake games from those consoles, which could of proved problemly.

    Toby Quan
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 07:58
    @Raven

    According to the "Masters of Doom" book, there was even an earlier computer game than that. It was done on a mainframe. I think it was tic-tac-toe.
    Emperor Baal
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 08:11
    Here's a new screenie, from the flashman stage. See and compare




    Old NES:


    Mine:


    soapyfish
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 08:29
    Looking good Baal, seems everyones better at 2d than me. I've had ago at doing some custom graphics for my re-make but the results are less than acceptabe. I'll just have to put in a bit of practice over the next two months. Again, nice graphics, simple but effective.

    p.s. On closer inspection it looks like the bodys of your 2 mega men are the same, just with different heads. Did you crop the bodies and add a custom head or draw your characer from scratch.

    Andy Igoe
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 08:56
    Quote: "no seriously the first game ever made was in 1976"

    Rogue, and before that Adventure, both I think pre-1976.

    Quote: "were the very first ppl to release a console in 1984 called the Master System"

    You meen Binatone, and it wasn't 1984. We already had home computers by then. I think 1976/8 ish for the first console.

    The first fully pre-assembled computer that I can think of was 1977, the Apple II.

    By 1984 Apple where already giving us the mouse on their Lisa computer, Sinclair had long since given us the Spectrum, Tandy had given us 5 home computers including one named after a scientist that sounded quite clever, the Dragon 64 was in homes surpassing the 32, Mattel had built something called the Aquarius which wasn't a fish tank, we had Oric Atmos, a computer called the Lynx that wasnt a 16 bit console by Atari, the BBC had been putting their Model B into schools for 2 years, there was something called on Osborne, Commodore had the Vic 20, heck - we even had ink jet printers (IBM) and programmable calculators (HP), optical disks and .... The Apple Macintosh.

    And your saying this was the birth of the console? Heck, Atari had already been and gone...


    Which is the biggest tool? The computer, or the muppet who invented it?
    Shadow Robert
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 17:42
    Space Wars WAS the first ever game, and it WAS created in 1976.

    I'm not budging from, that and if you care to dispute it them talk to Ian Prittchard @ Ringling University, FL.

    Let's break down the lists shall we:
    Atari VCS 2600: 1986
    MagnaFox Odyssey: Computer
    Atari's HomePong: Arcade Game
    Binatone: Computer

    Quote: "By 1984 Apple where already giving us the mouse on their Lisa computer, Sinclair had long since given us the Spectrum, Tandy had given us 5 home computers including one named after a scientist that sounded quite clever, the Dragon 64 was in homes surpassing the 32, Mattel had built something called the Aquarius which wasn't a fish tank, we had Oric Atmos, a computer called the Lynx that wasnt a 16 bit console by Atari, the BBC had been putting their Model B into schools for 2 years, there was something called on Osborne, Commodore had the Vic 20, heck - we even had ink jet printers (IBM) and programmable calculators (HP), optical disks and .... The Apple Macintosh."

    Every damn thing in there is a Computer, with the exception of the Lynx IF it had been Atari's handheld, which was '89.

    I'm guessing you people have serious understanding issues between what is a CONSOLE and what is a COMPUTER.

    empty
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 18:01 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 18:17
    Quote: "Space Wars WAS the first ever game, and it WAS created in 1976."

    There were arcade machines in the early 70s. What did they do with them? Write books? Or share recipes?


    Quote: "Atari VCS 2600: 1986"

    Funny. I won a 2600 in 1979.

    Quote: "MagnaFox Odyssey: Computer"

    No.

    Quote: "Atari's HomePong: Arcade Game"

    It was a console. Only one game, but still a console.

    Play Nice! Play Basic! Check it out. Now.
    empty
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 18:06 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 18:21
    About Atari
    http://www.atarimuseum.com/


    About the Odyssey
    http://www.pong-story.com/odyssey.htm

    Mind you, the entire internet lies and only Raven knows the truth.

    Play Nice! Play Basic! Check it out. Now.
    actarus
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 18:33 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 18:48
    Quote: "Space Wars WAS the first ever game, and it WAS created in 1976."
    There were arcade machines in the early 70s. What did they do with them? Write books? Or share recipes?


    "



    ROFLMAO!

    Quote: ""Atari VCS 2600: 1986"
    Funny. I won a 2600 in 1979. "


    Now he's probably going to tell you that you didn't.

    Atari 1986 bahahahaha!Poor raven.



    http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/2600menu/2600menu.htm

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    Andy Igoe
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 19:20 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 19:29
    The reason behind me listing all those machines Raven is to establish that computers where well and truly part of home life by 1984. The first consoles had been and gone by the time the ZX-80 and ZX-81 appeared and your talking about a time that was post-Spectrum.

    The home market moved away from consoles in favour of computers, before consoles re-established themselves in 1984 - your year of the console was actually the second coming, although that didn't really happen until the NES in 1985.

    Binatone.

    I know they make telephones, but they had multi-game consoles in the home long before we where tapping away magazine listings on to ZX-81's, that was followed by Atari developing the first cartridge console.

    Sure we probably didn't call them consoles at the time, we called them Binatones, or Ataris...

    EDIT: Atari 2600 was 1977 btw.


    Which is the biggest tool? The computer, or the muppet who invented it?
    Grismald
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 19:50 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 19:53
    Quote: "Space Wars WAS the first ever game, and it WAS created in 1976"


    AFAIK, it wasn't the first video game , and it was created in 1962 according to this site: http://www3.sympatico.ca/maury/games/space/spacewar.html

    The precursor of video games was probably tennis for two, created in 1958 by Willy Higinbotham and displayed on an oscilloscope!, read the story here:
    http://www.pong-story.com/1958.htm
    another intersting link:
    http://www.osti.gov/accomplishments/videogame.html


    Team EOD : Programmer :: 3D artist
    Shadow Robert
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 20:09
    No but the point I was trying to make is those original 'consoles' were not technically consoles.
    By definition they're Arcade Machines...

    The Atari 2600 (until I saw the link I believed he was talking about the base machine for the ST, thus '86 release), is still technically a computer as from the digging I did it was capable of having a keyboard hooked up and used as a computer; Required a kit admitidly but, by UK Law defintion that makes it a computer not a console (hense why Sony didn't get that tax break they were claiming on the Playstation 2).

    The difference between an Arcade Machine and a Console is very simlistic:
    Arcade Machines will play set games... i.e. What it comes with, is basically what you can play. The ability to have completely different games would make it a console; which might bring you to 'why isn't the Odessy a Console then?'

    That is a tough one to actually explain, it has all the features of a console; but the nature of it's setup actually makes it a Computer. Because although it had games, it also had learning tools as well as it's screen was not actually done by the machine itself in every title... you had to place plastic sheets (that stuck to the TV) to provide you with graphics.

    There is a large debate still going on by definition of if the X-Box is considered a console for a number of reasons. Because of the user interaction and software for it... it is considered a console; the EULA directly prohibits you using it for anything else.
    The old machines didn't.

    Quote: "There were arcade machines in the early 70s. What did they do with them? Write books? Or share recipes?"

    Space Invaders was the first Coin-op Arcade Machine released in 1978, or so Atari and Taito sites both claim.

    Grismald I'll checkout those sites later; It might be a case of mis understandings on many sides. A history of video games book I have clearly has the Space Wars being the first, it also clearly has the fact that the original Atari guy was one of the 2 students who created it. Will have to find the book...
    it might've been '68, and the first release in 72 cause those date seem to ring a bell with me but i don't remember why.

    empty
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    Posted: 14th Jul 2004 21:29 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 23:05
    @actarus
    Quote: "Now he's probably going to tell you that you didn't."

    Yes, he's telling me I won a computer. I always thought it was a game console. Silly me.



    @Raven
    Quote: "The Atari 2600 (until I saw the link I believed he was talking about the base machine for the ST, thus '86 release),"

    What "base machine"?


    Quote: "The Atari 2600 (until I saw the link I believed he was talking about the base machine for the ST, thus '86 release), is still technically a computer as from the digging I did it was capable of having a keyboard hooked up and used as a computer; Required a kit admitidly but, by UK Law defintion that makes it a computer not a console (hense why Sony didn't get that tax break they were claiming on the Playstation 2)."


    Erm yes.
    1) So you seriously claim, the fact that you could connect a keyboard to the 2600 makes it a computer? What was it called before this kit was available? Compsole?
    2) Mind posting a link to that UK law?
    3) Since when does this (fictional) law apply to the rest of the world?


    Quote: "The difference between an Arcade Machine and a Console is very simlistic:
    Arcade Machines will play set games... i.e. What it comes with, is basically what you can play. The ability to have completely different games would make it a console; which might bring you to 'why isn't the Odessy a Console then?'"

    From your favourite online dictionary
    Quote: "
    amusement arcade
    • noun Brit. an indoor area containing coin-operated game machines."

    By that definition arcade machines are things you'll find in that area.

    Quote: "which might bring you to 'why isn't the Odessy a Console then?'
    That is a tough one to actually explain, it has all the features of a console; but the nature of it's setup actually makes it a Computer. Because although it had games, it also had learning tools as well as it's screen was not actually done by the machine itself in every title... you had to place plastic sheets (that stuck to the TV) to provide you with graphics."

    Now wait!
    By your above definition the Odyssey must be an arcade machine. Now it's a computer because it had screen overlays for certain games???


    Quote: "There is a large debate still going on by definition of if the X-Box is considered a console for a number of reasons. Because of the user interaction and software for it... it is considered a console; the EULA directly prohibits you using it for anything else."

    Where does it say this? So it's illegal to use a keyboard with XBox?


    Quote: "Space Invaders was the first Coin-op Arcade Machine released in 1978, or so Atari and Taito sites both claim."

    Where? Post a link.
    And what are these?
    http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/arcade/arcade70.html
    Coffee-machine? Toasters? Fridges?


    Quote: "A history of video games book I have clearly has the Space Wars being the first, it also clearly has the fact that the original Atari guy was one of the 2 students who created it. Will have to find the book..."

    Finding it is not enough. You need to READ it.

    Play Nice! Play Basic! Check it out. Now.
    Wik
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    Location: CT, United States
    Posted: 15th Jul 2004 08:05
    tee hee


    CattleRustler
    Retired Moderator
    21
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    Joined: 8th Aug 2003
    Location: case modding at overclock.net
    Posted: 15th Jul 2004 08:28
    these threads make me laugh


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    Preston C
    21
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    Joined: 16th May 2003
    Location: Penn State University Park
    Posted: 15th Jul 2004 08:31 Edited at: 15th Jul 2004 08:32
    Yes, the daily Raven embarrasment really makes my day.

    You know, I just thought of something, you know how he can't wait until the ignore user thingy is in? I wonder if he realised most of us will ignore him when it comes

    Cheers,
    Preston


    Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 128MB
    soapyfish
    21
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    Joined: 24th Oct 2003
    Location: Yorkshire, England
    Posted: 15th Jul 2004 08:33
    Am I the only one here who doesn't really care anymore, from going to a nice friendly retro remakes thread this has turned into a cometition to see who can write the longest and most boring, post there is.

    Skier Demon
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    Location:
    Posted: 15th Jul 2004 08:36
    I entered... I already started a game. Havn't worked on it lately though. To busy fixing my friend's hacking problem.
    Damokles
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    Joined: 28th May 2003
    Location: Belgium
    Posted: 15th Jul 2004 23:35 Edited at: 25th Aug 2004 14:41
    Will only enter when my game is completed at 70% (I know, that doesn't mean much, but it's when I have the feeling that my game will be finished soon and I almost only have to get the graphics and sound better)

    Whatever, I began one that doesn't look that bad
    My first game with AI Hope it will be ok

    [EDIT]
    Just wanted to say what it was : Star Trek, but I wont be able to finish it.
    [/EDIT]

    - Mind the gap -
    JoelJ
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    Location: UTAH
    Posted: 16th Jul 2004 04:02
    hey morons, stay on topic

    Jimmy
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    Joined: 20th Aug 2003
    Location: Back in the USA
    Posted: 16th Jul 2004 06:22
    So who's excited for the upcoming summer olympics? I know I AM


    <Mnemonix> im seroulsiy frunk to doaty
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    Hamish McHaggis
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    Location: Modgnik Detinu
    Posted: 16th Jul 2004 07:19
    Hmm, lots of people are DBP Fanboys. Maybe I'd better become one .

    Athelon XP 1600+/Radeon 9600 Pro/256 RAM
    Richard Davey
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    Posted: 16th Jul 2004 11:26
    The Atari 2600 came out in 1977. Fact. It was NOT the first home console, Ataris Pong and the Magnavox Odyssey came before it, neither of which can be considered arcade machines because they featured multiple game types.

    The ST wasn't even based on a console design, it was created by Amiga Inc. in retaliation to the C64. Amiga Inc. fell out with Atari and refunded them their $500,000 development budget back and then went straight to Commodore and sold them their new chip designs (Blitter, etc) for $20 million (shrewd move, no?) But the ST was already well into development by now and the very first one was released in October 1985.

    Challenge me on any of the above points and I will graciously laugh in your face until I tire and then just brand you an infidel not worthy of uttering the name Atari

    Quote: "
    1) So you seriously claim, the fact that you could connect a keyboard to the 2600 makes it a computer? What was it called before this kit was available? Compsole?
    "


    The 2600 never had a keyboard for it - not in the traditional QWERTY sense. It had keypads for specific games and there were prototype keyboards too. The closest Atari got was "The Graduate", a project contracted out to a company called PVI and later canned around 1983. It added a snap-on keyboard and (most importantly people) a CPU! Oh and a natty copy of Microsoft BASIC (with a whole 8K of memory). It was going to be sold as a "my first computer" sort of thing, with a guide to programming, a family accounts package and other similar titles. Extra hardware like a printer and modem were all developed, but none of this (including the keyboard) ever saw the light of day because of Ataris massive financial problems in the early 1980s. It was all shelved and only prototype units exist today.

    The 2600 was and always will be a console.

    Quote: "
    2) Mind posting a link to that UK law?
    3) Since when does this (fictional) law apply to the rest of the world?
    "


    The UK law of which he talks does exist. Basically there is a tax break on computers sold within the EU because of their "educational" value. So Sony bundled YaBasic with the PS2 and sold keyboard add-ons in order to claim it was a "computer" and not just a console. I don't believe the tax man fell for it though. Still, nice try.

    The most amusing thing of all about this is the fact that could this tax law have existed in 1977? Absolutely impossibly not - no-one had a bloody clue what a home-computer was back then. A computer was either something the size of a small aircraft hanger OR it was a mini-kit, the kind you had to build yourself, which only electronics engineers and ultra nerds would do. Hell most computers back then didn't even come assembled! The Apple II changed this really, before that point kits like the Micral (based on Intels 4004 processor! the world first programmable one) or the Altair were just boxes with lights on, no keyboards, no monitors, etc. Just lights.

    There's a really cute story around the Altair minicomputer actually, the company responsible for it (MITS) was in deep financial trouble due. They originally made calculators, but Texas Instruments stole the market from under them and they couldn't even sell their calculators for LESS than they cost to make. The magazine Popular Electronics approached MITS and asked them to create a minicomputer to run as a "build your own" article. MITS created the Altair and were hoping to get 400 or so orders (for all the pieces) over the course of the articles so it could sort out its calculator debts. Everyone under-estimated the demand though and MITS received four hundred orders in ONE afternoon (the kit sold for $395!). They went on to make quarter of a million $ in 3 weeks. An astonishing sum in 1975. The Altair is a fascinating box - you had 256 bytes of memory (a quarter of a K!) and you entered programs into it one single digit at a time, in binary, via toggle switches!

    In the mid 70's people were still soldering their computers together - to imply a UK tax law existed that covered this period is insane at best.

    But then I guess we all knew that

    Cheers,

    Rich

    "I am not young enough to know everything."
    - Oscar Wilde

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