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Work in Progress / Strata Works

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foleypro
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Posted: 26th Aug 2005 17:50
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Ok just download the Proggy and will see how it goes...

Thanks for the Patience

As Always B3D
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 26th Aug 2005 22:31
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I assume you found the old Strata Works. This is fine and is a fully functional Lite version, but I've had to recreate it due to license issues. Because of that, I added new features and greatly modified the entire structure for the better because I learned a lot during my first creation of Strata Works. I will post after this hopefully with a beta of the new release. The new release is a Beta because most all of its planned features are done. The only things left to deal with are tweaks and bug squashes. I must state here, though before I forget, that the new Finalizer is still not implemented and this current release will be using an old buggy version of the pretest. I am having major problems with the Finalizer, but the Editor is pretty stable. If you do run into any problems or errors let me know.

For now, I must get back to work so I can post the beta in the very near future....


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foleypro
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Posted: 27th Aug 2005 00:06
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OK...

Will test and wait until you can get the Final Program Past Beta...

As Always B3D
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 27th Aug 2005 00:44 Edited at: 27th Aug 2005 00:44
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Release
It's here! I finally got Strata Works Beta Lite up! You will require the .NET framework as you did the ALP.

Strata Works BLP:
http://www.wendigosoft.com/swnet_lite/sw_lite.zip

The .NET redistributable framework:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=262D25E3-F589-4842-8157-034D1E7CF3A3&displaylang=en

I'm sorry I don't have more to say, but I'm not feeling to well today. I think I contracted a cold. The help file is pathetic but it's better than nothing. Before I start selling, I need to fix the help. Enjoy the beta, folks, and let me know of any bugs!


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David T
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Posted: 27th Aug 2005 20:17
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Downloading...

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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David T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 00:15
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I have to say I liked the old SW better - much easier to get a good lokking texture quickly.

I could hardly test it much - I kept hitting lite version restrictions

Any strata texture just generated black for me

That left me playing with the old fashioned layers - they didn't produce much special. I also couldn't use lighting, so the generated texture ended up not very good

I hope you can get strata working - as that was what gave generated maps such a nice look.

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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foleypro
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 03:31
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Hmmm...

I will try and see,If the Lite version does this then I will just wait until After the Release version comes out to BUY...

As Always B3D
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 23:18
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DavidT, the Strata System has changed. If you are just trying to create a new Strata Texture and nothing else, it will probably just show up as black. Also, expect to see some plaid textures on flat-land, but they really are built for cliffs, so i guess that's not too big of a deal. You got me thinking, though. I'm going to try something with Stratas and see what happens. As far as speed is concerned in work-flow, I found after some getting used to it, this system actually seamed significantly faster to me. I'll play with both and see if I can see it more from your perspective.


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David T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 23:38 Edited at: 30th Aug 2005 11:34
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Okay - I tried with a default layer and then a strata and I did get some strata like effect. Although it was all coloured like the default texture (a nice shade of green - even for snow).

How do I get effects like hte old system? I much prefered that

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 00:54
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Okay, I decided you might be on to something. Since the Lite version only allows 3 layers, I decided you guys probably would want nice Strata in only 1 layer, so I implemented two systems for Strata. There's the Strata system (like the old Strata Works) and the new Strata Overlay system which multiplies onto previous layers. Just install this hotfix and it will give you that new feature. It's not thourougly tested (I just wrote it and implemented it) but I did some testing and found no problems. Also, due to the fact that I've added the new system, I redid the strata textures to kinda get the best of both worlds. I decided to add some old favorites back from the last Strata Works, so there's a few more Strata textures now.

Hotfix1:
http://www.wendigosoft.com/swnet_lite/Hotfix1.zip

Extract that to your main Strata Works folder (should overwrite the main exe and the Strata textures folder)


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John H
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 18:23
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Do you know what the pricerange of SW will be? Im sure many people (including myself) would be willing to dish out some cash for something like this!

Awesome work


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Ric
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 18:38
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I hope you have a good tutorial planned to go with this. I found the whole thing tricky to get used to - not really knowing what to do, in which order. Some things I tried, like fiddling with the layers, didn't always seem to do anything. Add a new layer, select a texture for it, render the scene - no change. Sometimes I'd do something, like try to add a bit of snow, and the whole thing just went green. I'm fully aware that this is due to my ineptitude, my lack of understanding for what the various things do and how they work, and my impatience in really perservering - but on the other hand, there are plenty of programs which are really intuitive, and don't need much learning to get results straight away. How about inplementing some sort of wizard? Something that takes you through a sequence in the correct order?

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foleypro
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 19:35
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Excellent suggestion...

As Always B3D
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David T
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 01:40
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I'll try the hotfix tomorrow. I loved the old layer system - ace results in seconds

The new one is probably a lot more in depth - although without some help files it's hard to use it to its full potential

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 09:48
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I hear your cries!

Actually, there is a help file. It's not the best thing I've ever written, but it's a basic tutorial. There's no link in Strata Works to it (oops!) but you can navigate to your Strata Works folder and it's under the Help folder (of all places). It'll give you a basic start. I had my parents test the tut and they had no clue about how the program worked at the time, so I guess it's helpful (ofcourse, I was there to nudge them if they started getting a little lost). Ric, that's the second time someone told me to put a Wizard in. I think I'll give a shot at that. I'm not sure how exactly to implement a wizard, but hey, I'll give it a shot!

@RPGamer: Good question. I really need to look into price ranges more. Hopefully I'll have an estimate in the near future.

Thank you all so much for the feedback!


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Nameless
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 22:27
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Any updates?
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 26th Sep 2005 00:18 Edited at: 26th Sep 2005 00:19
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Sorry I haven't been around for a while. Class has been really intensive lately. I also was working on a scripting language that I was going to port to Strata Works, but that got a bit out of hand, so I don't think we'll be seeing that until after release. Beyond that I've had several major IDE crashes, an attempt at converting to another IDE which ultimetely resulted in failure, and a series of IDE inconsistencies which don't allow me to do certain important things to .NET projects. Needless to say, Microsoft isn't exactly on my good list at the moment. I've also had a bunch of personal things going on lately. This is my busy season, and unfortunetely it prevents me from working as hard as I would like to on projects so SW has slowed considerably. It's still being worked on though .

Planned Updates
Right now I'm aiming for a lot of polish (as in shine, not the country of people). The major workhorse classes and functions, are essentially releaseable, so now I just have to work on the IDE some more to make it more presentable. One introduction will be a nice iconic toolbar that should make things quicker to do. I also want to bug rid it some more, but it seems pretty stable all in all (I have found a few fixible crashes here and there).

Let me know if you find any bugs!


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DARKGuy
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Posted: 31st Oct 2005 07:44 Edited at: 31st Oct 2005 10:13
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I don't know if this can be considered a bug or not... but some files are having problems loading for me... some JPGs load, ZIP files don't... the site looks down when I just do www.wendigosoft.com... or it may be just me, but I doubt it :/

Either way, lookin' awesome ^^ (the few screens I could see :/)

EDIT: Nevermind... it was me. Really weird though!... oh well, gonna test now! ^_^ *waits for the download*

EDIT #2:

AWESOME PROGRAM!!! wow wow wow, first time I see a program of such quality. Awesome! keep on it man!

One thing though... xD gotta fix those seams o_O... I didn't know how the program worked or anything, but after a few minutes got the hang of it . Look at this resized screenshot (it was too big at 1280x1024 which is my desktop res... I'd suggest to just start a 640x480 (or at least 800x600x16 windowed DB screen) because it would go faster too ^_^.



Gotta fix the seams . Overall, good work, keep up! .D

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Oneka
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 06:21
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Yeah I would definetly buy this program how much you expecting to charge?

also Wendigo,
Can I edit multiple maps at once so that I can line them up and stuff right?...that would be a good feature for making multiple makes seamless...
other then that great job!

Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 13th Nov 2005 23:27
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This thread was once great, now gone


Proudly a Member of the ANJL.
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blanky
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Posted: 15th Nov 2005 22:23
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Shh, child. You weren't even around when this started.

16-colour PNGs pwn.
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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 01:46
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I read the entire thread and saw the dates.. wendigo hasnt posted in a loooong time, so it is dead..

We have fallen Into an abyss! Dear God captian! There all Bars.
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DARKGuy
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 03:25
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Man, I hope not!

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The Wendigo
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 06:52
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Oh my gosh! how many months has it been? I'm soooo sorry for not posting in THAT long. I've been busy answering questions and working on projects as well as classes, etc.... It's been fun (sarcasm). Anyway, STRATA WORKS IS NOT DEAD! I've just not been on these forums for a while.

First off, thanks a lot for the feedback . I really appreciate it!

As far as pricing goes, I have to work that out. It may be a bit before I can get something near solid.

As for those nasty ugly ugly seams. Agreed! I hate them. One of the reasons I've been gone from the forums is Strata Works. I've been working on some super-duper top-secret stuff that I think you guys will like in the end. Once I'm sure I can use what I've been working on, I'll let you guys know what it is and soon after distribute another demo.

Changes Thus Far:
The default cursor is change! Why? Well, I don't know if anyone has ever just tried the cursor as if it were a map, but if you do you're likely to realize something: it's a cone. Cones aren't very organic, so using a really neato program I made, I created a new cursor using a narly cosine algorithm to create a much more organic cursor. In a nutshell, it makes a rounded hill .
I'm probably forgetting a ton of features, but I'll hit what else I can think of (I haven't been sleeping as great as I'd like, so I'm a bit sleepy). There are some new textures to play with now. Mainly, I've created some new grass textures that look really nice when rendered. They are "diverse" textures, meaning that they have dirt, paths and other little natural anomolies that make them more convincing, but are mostly grass.
I know there's probably more stuff I've done to Strata Works, but I just can't think of it at the moment. Sorry, guys.

Concluding
I wish so much I could tell you guys exactly why things have slowed, but the feature is big and I've sort-of stepped out of my league with it and have had to do some extensive learning. This thing is so big that it's purpose inside of Strata Works is only a small part of the whole. Anyway, keep checking back! I promise to look at this thread much more between now and Christmas. Who knows, might even get a Christmas wish-list going for new features (Oneka, that idea has crossed my mind ). I can tell you this: One of the things that I want to do is make Strata Works extensible. So that means if your feature doesn't make it to sales time, it MIGHT get implemented later as a plugin . Have fun, guys!


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John H
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 03:37
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I tried the whole 'top secret dont post anything' deal for a long time - Makes people think your project is dead, and then you get bugged about it You just cant win! Glad to see your still working on it, good luck with classes (I feel your pain...)


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The Wendigo
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 06:53
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Haha, it's all good. As long as people don't get their hopes up and then falsly get them shot down. Unfortunetly, I feel I've let the public down in that area. If it wasn't for you guys, I don't think I'd still be working on Strata Works. It's good to have purpose for my projects


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Nameless
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I am struggling to texture my heightmap when I export it and then run it in DBPro. The terrain is textured very well when I preview it in strata but when I export the topograph and then texture the matrix with it in DBPro it doesn't look the same. I'm sure I there is something I need to do to fix this and I would be grateful if someone told me how. Thanks
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 22:48 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 23:15
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DB Programmer, if I could post a screenshot of it, I would be glad to help out. I've not experienced such problems myself and if it's a bug in SW then I need to fix it, or if it's just a missunderstanding of how to import it, I need to document it better. A screenshot or at the very least a well detailed description of what is happening would be greatful.

Important Update
Okay, guys, I've made a decision that no programmer should ever do litely. I've been working on some really cool features for Strata Works, but in order to complete them, it's going to take months to finish. As a result, I've decided to polish, bug fix, and do other such things to the current build of Strata Works and hopefully get it shipping very soon. Depending on how difficult it will be to get it distributed, I'll probably have a polished Lite version by around the end of December. The cool features, on the other hand, are going to be put into a planned Strata Works 2 which will probably take a year or longer to develop. Since it's a brand new idea, details on SW2 are very limmited. I can say I've got a basic engine going for the Topography and Light rendering. The current version of SW uses byte data (giving me a maximum 256 different values per elevation) to render topography and lighting. The problem here is innaccuracy which, under certain circumstances, can create some anomolies. For SW2, I've replaced that system with floating points between the range of 0 and 1. 0 represents lowest elevation and 1 represents maximum elevation. Since I can use numbers from within the thousandths place, my accuracy gets much higher. After playing with the system a bit, I've found out that the quality of rendering is phenominally better (at least, I think so )! The quality of maps from SW2 will likely be substantially better than SW1 as well as have new layer and lighting features, but that won't be the only big feature introduced. I'm also aiming to make a fully 3D environment where you sculpt your terrains in full 3D and watch as topography renderings directly affect your terrain in real-time. As you can see, these are big aspirations and changes to the original system, so I can't fit it all into the current program (Strata Works 1). Though I can't make any guarantees, I am going to strive to make it where SW1 users can upgrade to SW2 for the price difference or at least, some percentage of the SW2 price. Those details are foggy at the moment, but I don't want all of you thinking I'm going to screw you over with a new better product and expect you to pay full price. Everyone here is an indy game developer and I know how hard it can be to fund this hobbie (or future career).

Conclusion
Wheeew... There's a complicated rant. Despite the above, it looks like finalizing Strata Works 1 is my goal for the holiday season. I wish I had something for you all to play with. I'll see about releasing something fun to play with along side the current release of Strata Works Lite (like a texture pack or heightmap pack). In the mean time, keep posting bugs, feedback, or screenshots of your SW projects!


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The Wendigo
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Posted: 15th Dec 2005 09:18
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Gee, I hope people are still looking at this. Good news: the light engine is accurate now. I've been calling it a modified emboss technique (the old version) which it basically was, but now it's a full on normal system. This, of course, would bring up the question, "Can you export normal maps?" In theory, yes. Whether or not I implement exporting normal maps and edition restraints is still in debate. Oh yeah, and just to clarify: the new normal system actually affects both edition (Standard and Lite) as it replaces the old embossing system.

Oh yeah, I've also added an intermediate light between the sun light and ambient light. This light defaults to black, but makes it look a bit more 3D.

Well, that's a quick update for now. Hope to get something up really soon.


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Ian T
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Posted: 17th Dec 2005 09:22
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Sounds fantastic. Think we could see a screenie or two, since I can never catch you on the IRC anymore ?


Arr
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 27th Dec 2005 20:12
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Sorry for the long reply. A screenshot hey? Well, I'm thinking about finally making a site on Wendigo Software's that will show off the features of Strata Works. It will have a lot of information pertaining to the product on there, and it will also have new pictures as they come


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foleypro
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 07:57
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If and when you need Betatesters,Please add me to the list for I can send you a list of Programs That I have and still Betatest for.

As Always B3D....www.fnggames.com

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foleypro
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But only if you want HONEST feedback from a NEWB.

As Always B3D....www.fnggames.com

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The Wendigo
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 20:35
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Well, effectively since the Lite version is free and available, everyone that uses it is a Beta tester as long as they post the errors here. As for the full version features, I've already got some people helping me with that, but thank you for the offer.


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Medieval Coder
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 02:35
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Awesome Program!
Can you import/load your own textures?
Also can you import objects?
If not what would be a good program for loading objects into maps?..(sorry for all the noobish questions.... )
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TKsFox
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Posted: 12th Jan 2006 13:58
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Create ur own object loader

w/e - awesome tool - i wish i could get a code for free

It's me...
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The Wendigo
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@"noob" - Yes you can add your own textures to the program. I have wanted to add an import button, but it's looking like that feature won't be added and I'm not sure it's that great an idea anyway, however you can copy any textures that you wish to use into the corresponding texture folder. The texture should be a power of 2 for safety sake, but probably works for any dimmension (this is untested). Non square textures have not been tested either, but should work. The only texture type that has an absolute requirement in size is the Strata texture which height must be 256.

As far as object loading is concerned: you are not yet able to load objects into your world. I've been working on a file format I call IFDF (Independent Fluctuating Data Format) which should allow for object importing amoung other things. I'm hoping to use this format very intensily for all aspects of all my programs, but it's still in development. I'll keep you all posted!


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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 10th Feb 2006 00:02
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I'm still having trouble trying to get it to look good.

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Uncle Sam
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 10th Feb 2006 06:30
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Yay, I think I'm finally starting to get this to work. Hey Wen, can I use the your textures and Stratas and stuff in my games?

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The Wendigo
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Posted: 15th Feb 2006 22:42 Edited at: 15th Feb 2006 22:45
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All textures distributed with Strata Works are free to use without royalty in any game you desire .

IMPORTANT
I knew this was going to happen and I'm just sick because of it. Due to advanced programs coming out, I now feel that Strata Works is too old-style to create a contemporary terrain with the ease of new creators. As a result, I'm going to close down Strata Works project entirely, however I know you guys have been waiting for quite a while to have a copy of Strata works, and many of you have been willing to pay cash for it. As a nice gesture to a great following, I'm going to be releasing the full version free of charge to the general public, hopefully very soon. I don't promise any support on it, but if you guys see some really nasty bugs in it that need squashing, I'll try and release some patches. I won't go as far as releasing any code to the public, as some of the code may be used in future, more contemporary projects. It's been great fun, guys!

[edit]
It probably goes without saying, but the final version never got all the bugs out, so expect it to be a bit buggy in some areas. Again, if you guys manage to find something that crashes the program or some other really nasty thing, I'll try and fix it.


Home of DOOP, Strata Works, and Seva. djpeterson83@_!@hotmail.com
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Oneka
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Location: Hampton,VA
Posted: 16th Feb 2006 22:10
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:/ so that means that the feature of working on multiple terrains at once wont be made? :/...I really wanted that one >_<


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
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Uncle Sam
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Location: West Coast, USA
Posted: 20th Feb 2006 22:52 Edited at: 20th Feb 2006 22:53
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Quote: "without royalty"


What do you mean by that?

Quote: "full version free of charge "


I just passed out!

--------------
Uncle Sam
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Hawkeye
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Location: SC, USA
Posted: 21st Feb 2006 00:59
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Holy sonuvasandwich, this amazing piece of software is now freeware? Amazing dude, I'm thrilled,


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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The Wendigo
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Location: A hole near the base of a tree in the US
Posted: 21st Feb 2006 23:33
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Quote: "Quote: "without royalty"

What do you mean by that?
"


That means that you don't have to pay me every time you cell a unit of your product if you used any of my textures or other royalty free part of Strata Works.

Well, I'm going to play with SW a bit today and see what needs "Finishing up". The pretest (which is still as far as it got) is junk, so I'm pretty upset about that. I *may* do something about it, but since I've moved on to bigger things with my projects, any work on it won't be too impressive. I've been working in .NET and DirectX 9.0 (without Dark BASIC) and have been building with my own little engine. It's not going to be quite as easy to use as Dark BASIC but so far promises power and performance as well as lightening the work load. Because of this, focus is a little off of plugging holes in the Strata Works code, but I'll still see what I can do with it.


Home of DOOP, Strata Works, and Seva. djpeterson83@_!@hotmail.com
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The Wendigo
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Location: A hole near the base of a tree in the US
Posted: 7th Mar 2006 04:01
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Before release, I had already decided to redo the Pretest program. It's kinda pathetic in its current state. I've been working on a new engine called Cirrus and decided to try rebuilding the pretest in it. Amazingly, I think I'm getting blazing performance that matches or excedes DarkBASIC, but it's actually easier to implement. This isn't really an ad for Cirrus (especially since the dang thing isn't near done yet!) but it's looking like building a decent pretest is going to be easy.


Home of DOOP, Strata Works, and Seva. djpeterson83@_!@hotmail.com
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foleypro
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Location: Tacoma Washington USA
Posted: 7th Mar 2006 06:51
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Sweet...


Cant wait to see what ya come up woth.

As Always B3D....www.fnggames.com

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The Wendigo
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Location: A hole near the base of a tree in the US
Posted: 19th Mar 2006 07:31 Edited at: 19th Mar 2006 07:32
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Great news and semi-bad news and bad news. Great news is the new finalizer (chinsy) is working. Semi-bad news is it's not my best show of programming skills, but at least you can see your terrain in 3D. Bad news is I was thinking "Hey, this thing is about ready to deploy finally", then I tried rendering a light map. It won't anymore. I swear I never touched the code, but the light map generation somehow managed to break itself. I guess I have some more work to do on it (sigh.....).

[Edit]. I just want this thing done now. I love Strata Works, but this is just irritating. Every time I think it's ready, something magically breaks itself. I swear it has a mind of its own sometimes!


Home of DOOP, Strata Works, and Seva. djpeterson83@_!@hotmail.com
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Baggers
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Location: Yonder over dem dere hills
Posted: 22nd Mar 2006 14:01
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Ouch man, sorry about the breaking.
Guess we all know that feeling, ive become a compulsive backup'er now just out of fear of things breaking.
Anyway good luck and thanks for keeping going.

M.I.A is pending
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TEH_CODERER
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Location: Right behind you!
Posted: 14th Apr 2006 16:19
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Yeah, after I lost all the code to Tutopia a while back I now backup every half hour or after any large additions. Not that I'm paranoid!

Thankyou so much for deciding to release this for free. By the way, until recently I didn't have the net on my DB computer so I couldn't download the advanced terrain plugin. Where can I download it from?

[url]andrewneale2004@yahoo.com[/url]
http://www.elbsoftware.dbspot.com
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Hawkeye
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Location: SC, USA
Posted: 15th Apr 2006 16:04
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Advanced terrain is included with dbp u5.9, and maybe u5.8 <.<


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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