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Geek Culture / in response to Jam For K:

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 16:52
*really wants to know what everyone\'s problem with the french is.* their transport, education, culture, food and general quality of life is better than ours- infact pretty much all of western europe has better stuff than us, even weather. maybe brits ar ejust jealous.

Jess T
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 17:02
Just before anyone says anything,
Don't flame in this thread, keep it reasonable and stately and we will all be much happier

In response to the post,
I don't know anything about Frech way of living, but I do know about the UK way of life, and TBH I prefer my Ozzy Way

Jess.


Team EOD :: Programmer/All-Round Nice Guy
Aust. Convention!
Dave J
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 17:12 Edited at: 1st Oct 2004 17:13
When the French refused to support the US in Iraq, the media and also the government blew it all out of proportion. The general opinion was that France is supposed to be an ally to the US and that it's outrageous that France wouldn't help out in Iraq. Hence, the US government did the stupidest thing in history and renamed food like 'French Fries' and 'French Toast' to 'Freedom Fries' and 'Freedom Toast'. I guess the US public (generalisation, in reality not everyone would have) cottoned onto this idea that the French must be really evil for not wanting to help in Iraq and now there's quite a strong negative vibe towards them.

Personally I don't have a problem with France, hating a country because they didn't want to go to war with Iraq is just ludicrous. The one thing I do dislike about France is that they have banned the use of religious symbols in public places, i.e. that means no wearing large crosses (small crosses are acceptable, apparently), the star of david, but most importantly, the Hijab and Burqa have both been banned completely from France, that is, Muslim's are no longer allowed to wear their headscarves or traditional religious clothing. Religious symbols were originally just disallowed within schools but over time the law was expanded to include all public buildings, so you are still allowed to wear them in your private residance (or anyone elses for that matter). The law was passed in an attempt to keep France secular and without a religion, which isn't really discriminatory because all religions are affected, but it does strip people of their right to express their religion. Mind you, the French constitution has never given the French the right in the first place so technically what they're doing isn't wrong legally, just ethically.

Okay, so excluding those two things, I wouldn't have a clue why people dislike the French, they have great food (excluding Frogs legs and snails ) and like Froogle says, they're generally a lot better off then the rest of us.


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Van B
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 17:35
I think it's a cultural difference, I mean the French have never really been that popular, a lot of people find them arrogant, just like the Italians as well, but I think it's just a confidence thing. It's very British to be appologetic and polite and to never make a scene - the French are more inclined to deal with confrontation and voice their opinions.

Personally I think most French people could care less about what Americans think of them, which I can identify with.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Wiggett
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 17:40
haha did they really re name it to freedom fries and freedom toast??? thats hillarious, hey why didn't they call it aussie fries, we helped you guys out in iraq, and managed not to blow ourselves up , or they could have done the fries formerly known as french and given it a crazy symbol like prince. err not as in they could have given a symbol of prince, that would be wierd you get maccas chip buckets with a picture of him in that purple outfit.

Van B
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 17:58
The aussies just love a good fight, that's why they were in Iraq, Korea, Vietnam, etc etc etc - I'm not aware of what the American government has done to repay all those crazy Australian soldiers, probably nothing.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Wiggett
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 18:36
didnt we get some free trade agreement?? i mean for me that prolly doesnt mean much, ahwell who cares about what country we're all the same anyway, just different cultures like to eat different things, like freedom food.

Dave J
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 19:14
The Free Trade Agreement just means that all our exported goods to America will now be duty-free, meaning we will be exempt from taxes and we'll get more money for our goods. As a result, this will strengthen our economy greatly, this is especially important to Australia as America is one of the largest powers in the world and as their economy grows, so will ours. The FTA is two-way though, so while we have duty-free exports, so does the US to Australia, this means that the USA will greatly benefit from the agreement as well. Overall, we'll benefit from the FTA more though as obviously we're a much smaller nation with a struggling economy, I believe Australia is the USA's 10th highest exporter so although a lot of goods are being exported to us from America, they wouldn't benefit from the FTA nearly as much as us.


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Wiggett
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 19:24
ohwell i suppose its ok, though i still think maybe giving us a whole load of super computers and other cool products that are available in America yet not in Australia, or atleast giving me some cool amounts of the us versions of heroquest. or just given me lost of money. yes, that would benefit...us.

BatVink
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 19:37 Edited at: 1st Oct 2004 19:37
mmmm....

They have 65 outstanding warrants for breaking EC rules.

They block the UK from reaching Europe via France when they fall out with their own government, thus damaging the UK economy.

They claim grants for suppressing crops, and then grow the crops anyway (worst offenders, caught by Satellite technology measuring the depth of crops in "crop-suppression areas".

Note: I have deleted my own opinion from this post, and simply left the facts.

BatVink
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Wiggett
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 19:51
who has thi sbreaking rules now?

Van B
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 20:00
Batvink,
I think your own opinions probably would have had more relevance. Those are probably reasons for a trader or a politition to have a grudge against the French, but not everyday people. The thing is that the French and English have had this mutual distaste for each other because of ancient crap, and europeans have a tendency not to let things lie. I've spoken to French folk who have some real issues with English people, and it's all playground stuff really.

I find it hard to understand why people have such strong opinions about nationalities, I mean, if someone hates the French, then it's a fairly easy solution to simply ignore them.

To tell the truth though, it's funny to have a go at the French, not here of course, but when Al Murray starts on about them, it's freakin hilarious. I think maybe the French have less of a sense of humour, like most of Europe their sense of humour, and music for that matter is sadly lacking.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Flashing Blade
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 20:23
They set fire to our sheep! LOL - how crazy must someone be to set a sheep alight?

I been on holiday there twice and its a beautiful country.
First time I went I just learned the phrase "Parlez vous Anglais?" (Do you speek English?), and found most of them to be rude and dis-curtious. Second time I went I learned to speak French, I wasn't good at it and I struggled, but what a difference it made - they were a 1000 times more helpful and curtious and polite.

So my advice is go to France its a nice country, learn the language, and don't take any sheep.


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Wiggett
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 20:36
my solution, GRAB THE CAT!

empty
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 20:52
Quote: "When the French refused to support the US in Iraq, the media and also the government blew it all out of proportion. The general opinion was that France is supposed to be an ally to the US and that it's outrageous that France wouldn't help out in Iraq. Hence, the US government did the stupidest thing in history and renamed food like 'French Fries' and 'French Toast' to 'Freedom Fries' and 'Freedom Toast'. I guess the US public (generalisation, in reality not everyone would have) cottoned onto this idea that the French must be really evil for not wanting to help in Iraq and now there's quite a strong negative vibe towards them."

The funny thing is that France wasn't the only country that refused to go to war. But except for being labelled as "the old Europe" (as opposed to the new Europe) the other countries weren't attacked that much by members of the US administration.

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Van B
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 21:03
I remember when they banned our beef! - damn Frenchies refusing to eat our poison meat . One thing to remember when you visit France, if you go to a restaurant and order steak, you might end up with some sick mince and egg thing that'll probably just make you ill - I think it's to annoy American tourists - good show crazy French chef dudes .


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 21:26
Did the US really rename French Fries to Freedom Fries?! God that is so sad it beggars belief. Actually have just searched on it, it appears they only did it in the various House of Representatives restaurants, so that's not quite so bad - at least it's just dumb-ass politicians

There was a great quote about how the French should be helping the Americans fight in Iraq because of all the help they were given in WW2 - to which someone replied "were it not for the French, the Americans would have lost the battle for independence against their now close ally Britain, during the American Revolution."

Love it

Politicians amaze me sometimes and the fact that some of the general populous believe and support them amazes me even more.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 22:05
Quote: "Did the US really rename French Fries to Freedom Fries?!"

Yes apparently...

Quote: "Politicians amaze me sometimes and the fact that some of the general populous believe"

Unfortunately people need something to believe in...


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hyrichter
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 23:31
I'm from the US, and I still call them French fries. A lot of people were calling things with French names "freedom" this and that, but I don't know of any official renaming.

Van B
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 23:52
Freedom kissing!

Freedom letters! (none of you will get that unless you have a victorian mother like mine)

Freedom windows!

The scary thing is that if you asked most Americans to point at France on the globe, they'd end up in Africa or iceland or something.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
bitJericho
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 23:54
lol, i remember when that first came up. Freedom toast and Freedom fries... Never called them that, and for the *most* part I've never seen freedom anything in any restaurant menu.

Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 00:34 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2004 00:34
I'd like to make a few things quite clear-

The whole 'freedom fries' bull was the AMERICAN PUBLIC not the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. The administration had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was a fad that passed quite quickly.

Most Americans who know about the situation are pissed at the French government, not the French people.

The statue of liberty and aid in the revolutionary war were not from the French government, they were from the French people, both against the will of the government.

I'm so tired of these things being warped and blown out of proportion. Do your bloody research, people!

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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 00:35
Quote: "The scary thing is that if you asked most Americans to point at France on the globe, they'd end up in Africa or iceland or something."


I've never met one below ten years old who couldn't find it. That's a rather odd assumption to make.

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Van B
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 00:51
Mouse,
That's just the impression we get over here - it's probably not accurate, but then I rarely am . Put this way, the American education system where geography is concearned is widely regarded as pants. Going by my own experiences, I don't recall meeting an American I did'nt like, or one that had the slightest clue about my country or it's history. I don't think there's enough non-USA specific geography and history in your schools.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
empty
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 00:53 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2004 00:57
Quote: "The whole 'freedom fries' bull was the AMERICAN PUBLIC not the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. The administration had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was a fad that passed quite quickly."

Well the guys responsible for this are the republican representatives Robert Ney and Walter Jones. And still, French Fries are Belgian.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 00:57
Quote: "The whole 'freedom fries' bull was the AMERICAN PUBLIC not the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. The administration had absolutely nothing to do with it."


According to CNN, BBC, etc it was somewhere in the middle. Administration? No, definitely not. General public? Not really the ones spear-heading it either (although they started it). They all blame it on a few house representatives, who while being "general public", are also politicians - which rates them on another human boundary altogether but it's easy to see where the confusion comes from.

As for the statue of liberty thing, no idea where you got that from in this thread and while the French governments official stance on supplying gunpowder etc was "no", we all know that doesn't mean jack - the French peasants didn't grow it in their fields, it had to come from somewhere. It's all irrelevant anyway, what happened happened.

On a totally personal front I've never had any real opinions on the war in Iraq, but now we're years into it and it's done nothing but set the whole country into complete turmoil and anarchy. Way to go coalition. And as for the WOMD, say no more.

Cheers,

Rich

"I am not young enough to know everything."
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 00:58
Quote: "And still, French Fries are Belgian."


I know. It's one of fun facts things my mom likes to bring up all the time. But I fail to see how it's America's fault that some Frenchman stole Belgium's invention

Van B-> The school system over here generally sucks in every way, I agree with you there. But it's not that hard to pick out France on a globe (I hope)

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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 01:17
Quote: "Hence, the US government did the stupidest thing in history and renamed food like 'French Fries' and 'French Toast' to 'Freedom Fries' and 'Freedom Toast'."


That is hilarious! I have a small beef with the French-Canadians, not the French from France. The Francophones all want to separate from Canada--- they're generally known for doing lots of complaining.

Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 01:49
the only time i've ever said "freedom" fries was when i was joking...i haven't seen them called that on ANY menus...

hehe...but i like to joke about being politicaly correct..

I.E.
bob:"And then the screen went black..."
me:"excuse me...don't you mean "the screen went 'african american'...sheesh some people are just so rude..."

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David T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 02:25
Quote: "When the French refused to support the US in Iraq, the media and also the government blew it all out of proportion."


Why should France have helped anyway?

I think it is a tiny bit unfair that just because a country didn't want to take part in an invasion of another they should have received so much flack for it.

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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 02:43
AFAIK the issue wasn't about the French not jumping on the bandwagon, but they were also one of the countries stalling the UN when they were supposed to reach a concensus.

JeKu-> Read my post

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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 04:39 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2004 04:56
It's cus the French have the power of veto at UN, and they used their veto to stop UK/USA making the invasion legal.
There was going to be a Anglo-American resolution drawn up to authorise invasion but France said "we will veto it".


The word "Gullible" cannot be found in any English Dictionary.
Neofish
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 04:50
Quote: "But it's not that hard to pick out France on a globe"
it says france

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Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 04:50
yeah it's not about the french not going in...it's about the french stopping us from going in with the UNs consent...

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David T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 04:56 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2004 04:56
Quote: "There was going to be a Anglo-American resolution drawn up to authorise invasion but France said we will veto it."


They have every right to veto, that's what a veto is for!

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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 05:00
@ David T

I wasn't saying they were wrong I was just answering the question of why America are upset at France and not other countries.

America have used their veto power more than anyone so they realy not in a position to cry foul.


The word "Gullible" cannot be found in any English Dictionary.
empty
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 05:13
Quote: " It's cus the French have the power of veto at UN, and they used their veto to stop UK/USA making the invasion legal."

No, they didn't use their veto, because...


Quote: "There was going to be a Anglo-American resolution drawn up to authorise invasion but France said we will veto it."

... yes that resolution (which was proposed by the US, the UK and Spain) never came to vote in the UN security council. Not only the Russian Federation, China and France (all permanent members with the power of veto) were against it, but it was highly unlikely that it would get the required 9 of 15 votes from all memembers.

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Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 05:18
the UN is as joke...more than %90 of their troops are american...

what are they going to do if we want to do something? send our own troops after us!?

related joke
Quote: ""What's the difference between a UN troop and a normal troop?""


Quote: ""The un troop is a easy target(blue! ) ...
...
and he can't shoot back ""


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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 05:38
Considering the absolutely horrific things the UN tries to do all the time, it's not a bad thing that we veto all the time...

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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 05:41
Quote: "Quote: " It's cus the French have the power of veto at UN, and they used their veto to stop UK/USA making the invasion legal."
No, they didn't use their veto, because..."


They didn't use their veto, rather they used the fact that they have got veto power to stop resolution being put forward.

Now the Americans are mad because
1) France would have stopped resolution even if majority wanted it passed.
2) The Americans believe that because the French said they would veto then the on-the-fence nations said they'd vote no as well because what's the point of upsetting their own public when the resolution was bound to failure anyway.

These aren't my opinions just what I believe the way America saw it and why America is annoyed at France.

Viva Francais!!!!


The word "Gullible" cannot be found in any English Dictionary.
Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 05:44
Most of America really isn't annoyed at France anymore btw. The vast majority people I've talked to online and in RL in the past several months who have been making jabs at France have actually been British, it appears to be some sort of running joke there (just an observation)

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empty
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 05:49
Quote: " the UN is as joke...more than %90 of their troops are american..."

Erm, where did you get that number from.

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empty
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 05:53
Quote: "These aren't my opinions just what I believe the way America saw it and why America is annoyed at France."

Yeah that's probably the reason. Or to quote Donald Rumsfeld: "Germany has been a problem, and France has been a problem"

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David T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 05:54
I wasn't saying they were wrong I was just answering the question of why America are upset at France and not other countries.

I wasn't getting at you, I was just saying that if people are angry at France using / threatening a veto then they shouldn't be

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Neophyte
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 07:10
@Mouse

" Considering the absolutely horrific things the UN tries to do all the time, it's not a bad thing that we veto all the time..."

Oh really?

Quote: "
USA's 30 Years of UN Vetoes

Year - Resolution Vetoed by the USA

1972 Condemns Israel for killing hundreds of people in Syria and Lebanon in air raids.

1973 Afirms the rights of the Palestinians and calls on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.

1976 Condemns Israel for attacking Lebanese civilians.

1976 Condemns Israel for building settlements in the occupied territories.

1976 Calls for self determination for the Palestinians.

1976 Afirms the rights of the Palestinians.

1978 Urges the permanent members (USA, USSR, UK, France, China) to insure United Nations decisions on the maintenance of international peace and security.

1978 Criticises the living conditions of the Palestinians.

1978 Condemns the Israeli human rights record in occupied territories.

1978 Calls for developed countries to increase the quantity and quality of development assistance to underdeveloped countries.

1979 Calls for an end to all military and nuclear collaboration with the apartheid South Africa.

1979 Strengthens the arms embargo against South Africa.

1979 Offers assistance to all the oppressed people of South Africa and their liberation movement.

1979 Concerns negotiations on disarmament and cessation of the nuclear arms race.

1979 Calls for the return of all inhabitants expelled by Israel.

1979 Demands that Israel desist from human rights violations.

1979 Requests a report on the living conditions of Palestinians in occupied Arab countries.

1979 Offers assistance to the Palestinian people.

1979 Discusses sovereignty over national resources in occupied Arab territories.

1979 Calls for protection of developing counties' exports.

1979 Calls for alternative approaches within the United Nations system for improving the enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms.

1979 Opposes support for intervention in the internal or external affairs of states.

1979 For a United Nations Conference on Women.

1979 To include Palestinian women in the United Nations Conference on Women.

1979 Safeguards rights of developing countries in multinational trade negotiations.

1980 Requests Israel to return displaced persons.

1980 Condemns Israeli policy regarding the living conditions of the Palestinian people.

1980 Condemns Israeli human rights practices in occupied territories. 3 resolutions.

1980 Afirms the right of self determination for the Palestinians.

1980 Offers assistance to the oppressed people of South Africa and their national liberation movement.

1980 Attempts to establish a New International Economic Order to promote the growth of underdeveloped countries and international economic co-operation.

1980 Endorses the Program of Action for Second Half of United Nations Decade for Women.

1980 Declaration of non-use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states.

1980 Emphasises that the development of nations and individuals is a human right.

1980 Calls for the cessation of all nuclear test explosions.

1980 Calls for the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.

1981 Promotes co-operative movements in developing countries.

1981 Affirms the right of every state to choose its economic and social system in accord with the will of its people, without outside interference in whatever form it takes.

1981 Condemns activities of foreign economic interests in colonial territories.

1981 Calls for the cessation of all test explosions of nuclear weapons.

1981 Calls for action in support of measures to prevent nuclear war, curb the arms race and promote disarmament.

1981 Urges negotiations on prohibition of chemical and biological weapons.

1981 Declares that education, work, health care, proper nourishment, national development, etc are human rights.

1981 Condemns South Africa for attacks on neighbouring states, condemns apartheid and attempts to strengthen sanctions. 7 resolutions.

1981 Condemns an attempted coup by South Africa on the Seychelles.

1981 Condemns Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, human rights policies, and the bombing of Iraq. 18 resolutions.

1982 Condemns the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. 6 resolutions (1982 to 1983).

1982 Condemns the shooting of 11 Muslims at a shrine in Jerusalem by an Israeli soldier.

1982 Calls on Israel to withdraw from the Golan Heights occupied in 1967.

1982 Condemns apartheid and calls for the cessation of economic aid to South Africa. 4 resolutions.

1982 Calls for the setting up of a World Charter for the protection of the ecology.

1982 Sets up a United Nations conference on succession of states in respect to state property, archives and debts.

1982 Nuclear test bans and negotiations and nuclear free outer space. 3 resolutions.

1982 Supports a new world information and communications order.

1982 Prohibition of chemical and bacteriological weapons.

1982 Development of international law.

1982 Protects against products harmful to health and the environment .

1982 Declares that education, work, health care, proper nourishment, national development are human rights.

1982 Protects against products harmful to health and the environment.

1982 Development of the energy resources of developing countries.

1983 Resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, and international law. 15 resolutions.

1984 Condemns support of South Africa in its Namibian and other policies.

1984 International action to eliminate apartheid.

1984 Condemns Israel for occupying and attacking southern Lebanon.

1984 Resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, and international law. 18 resolutions.

1985 Condemns Israel for occupying and attacking southern Lebanon.

1985 Condemns Israel for using excessive force in the occupied territories.

1985 Resolutions about cooperation, human rights, trade and development. 3 resolutions.

1985 Measures to be taken against Nazi, Fascist and neo-Fascist activities .

1986 Calls on all governments (including the USA) to observe international law.

1986 Imposes economic and military sanctions against South Africa.

1986 Condemns Israel for its actions against Lebanese civilians.

1986 Calls on Israel to respect Muslim holy places.

1986 Condemns Israel for sky-jacking a Libyan airliner.

1986 Resolutions about cooperation, security, human rights, trade, media bias, the environment and development. 8 resolutions.

1987 Calls on Israel to abide by the Geneva Conventions in its treatment of the Palestinians.

1987 Calls on Israel to stop deporting Palestinians.

1987 Condemns Israel for its actions in Lebanon. 2 resolutions.

1987 Calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.

1987 Cooperation between the United Nations and the League of Arab States.

1987 Calls for compliance in the International Court of Justice concerning military and paramilitary activities against Nicaragua and a call to end the trade embargo against Nicaragua. 2 resolutions.

1987 Measures to prevent international terrorism, study the underlying political and economic causes of terrorism, convene a conference to define terrorism and to differentiate it from the struggle of people from national liberation.

1987 Resolutions concerning journalism, international debt and trade. 3 resolutions.

1987 Opposition to the build up of weapons in space.

1987 Opposition to the development of new weapons of mass destruction.

1987 Opposition to nuclear testing. 2 resolutions.

1987 Proposal to set up South Atlantic "Zone of Peace".

1988 Condemns Israeli practices against Palestinians in the occupied territories. 5 resolutions (1988 and 1989).

1989 Condemns USA invasion of Panama.

1989 Condemns USA troops for ransacking the residence of the Nicaraguan ambassador in Panama.

1989 Condemns USA support for the Contra army in Nicaragua.

1989 Condemns illegal USA embargo of Nicaragua.

1989 Opposing the acquisition of territory by force.

1989 Calling for a resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict based on earlier UN resoltions.

1990 To send three UN Security Council observers to the occupied territories.

1995 Afirms that land in East Jerusalem annexed by Israel is occupied territory.

1997 Calls on Israel to cease building settlements in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories. 2 resolutions.

1999 Calls on the USA to end its trade embargo on Cuba. 8 resolutions (1992 to 1999).

2001 To send unarmed monitors to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

2001 To set up the International Criminal Court.

2002 To renew the peace keeping mission in Bosnia.

Note: During the eighties, the UN was concerned with Saddam Hussein's use of chemcal weapons. On 3/21/1986, the Security Council President, "speaking on behalf of the Security Council," stated that the Council members were "profoundly concerned by the unanimous conclusion of the specialists that chemical weapons on many occasions have been used by Iraqi forces against Iranian troops...[and] the members of the Council strongly condemn this continued use of chemical weapons in clear violation of the Geneva Protocol of 1925 which prohibits the use in war of chemical weapons" (S/17911 and Add. 1, 21 March 1986).

The United States voted AGAINST the issuance of this statement.
"


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/859716/posts

That little bit at the end is priceless. Citizens Not Spectators has a little bit of commentary to add to this bit of info:

Quote: "
US Voted Against the UN Sec. Council's 1st Condemnation of Iraq

There are some who defend the United State's frequent vetoes of UN Security Council Resolutions against Israel, saying, for instance that the UN is rampant with anti-semitism. I'll be waiting to hear how these individuals respond to the fact that the Reagan administration voted against the UN Security Council's very first explicit condemnation of Iraq's use of chemical weapons. Indeed, US obstinance to any such condemnation was so strong prior to and after this condemnation that the Security Council President had to make a special "declaration" because the US would have assuredly vetoed an actual resolution condemning Iraqi use of weapons of mass destruction against its own people and its neighboring state (permanent Sec. Council Member can't veto non-binding Presidential Declarations).

The Security Council could only condemn Iraq by name for using chemical weapons through non-binding Presidential statements, over which permanent members of the Security Council do not have an individual veto. On 21 March 1986, the Security Council President, making a "declaration" and "speaking on behalf of the Security Council," stated that the Council members are "profoundly concerned by the unanimous conclusion of the specialists that chemical weapons on many occasions have been used by Iraqi forces against Iranian troops...[and] the members of the Council strongly condemn this continued use of chemical weapons in clear violation of the Geneva Protocol of 1925 which prohibits the use in war of chemical weapons". The US voted against the issuance of this statement, and the UK, Australia, France and Denmark abstained. However, the concurring votes of the other ten members of the Security Council ensured that this statement constituted the first criticism of Iraq by the Security Council. A similar Presidential statement was made on 14 May 1987, which noted that the Council was "deeply dismayed" about the chemical weapons use against Iranian forces and civilians.

This is a shameful hypocrisy. It demonstrates how hollow are the US claims that the UN borders on irrelevance, because it won't even enforce its own will today. The fact is the most powerful nations, such as the US, have long sought to manipulate the will of the UN, which is one of the foremost reasons it seems so weak today. What the UN is doing, at least for the time being, is refusing to let the Bush administration dictate what the will of the UN shall be.

So far as I know, Thucydides was the first to identify the sort of thinking that is typical of the Bush administration and its allies: might makes right.
"


http://www.citizensnotspectators.org/archives/000025.html

The US veto power has not been put to good use.

@Everyone else

Mouse is correct when he states that most people in America aren't really mad at the french. It seems like it was a passing fad. Or more accurately, criticizing the french now for not supporting the invasion actually makes the french look good and I don't think too many people are to eager to do that.
Eric T
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2003
Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 07:17
Quote: " French Fries to Freedom Fries?!"


We did at one time, but i'd just walk in to any place and get some French Fries. Stupid sh*t like that makes me hate the country even more. When people do things like changing the name of food, cause the french won't go to war with us. Hell, what if the Aussies and the British refused, would we kick BBC and the Croc Hunter off TV here?

As for the whole make fun of the french thing. Its starting to pass, but you always have them few people who bring stupid things back.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
21
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Joined: 17th Aug 2003
Location:
Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 08:18
Quote: "but you always have them few people who bring stupid things back."


yeh- like the retards who constantly bring up france's unfortunate situation during the WW's.

what i find amusing is that britain's the first nationt o join the US in the war in iraq, while france says no. meanwhile, sudan's falling apart, and the french army is the first one in the help the situation, while the british and americans are still stuck in iraq dealing with the mess they got themselves stuck into. eventually blair realises how good the french are starting to look so sends about 10 british troops into sudan to say "dont give the french all the credit- we're there too"

Ian T
22
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Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 09:35
AFAIK 90% of the troops anyone sends anywhere for aid purposes is posturing anyways, to be quite analytical.

[center]
"Humans are useless they can only give you questions."
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 09:46
Quote: " AFAIK 90% of the troops anyone sends anywhere for aid purposes is posturing anyways, to be quite analytical."

Are these the same 90% Peter_H mentioned earlier.

Sorry couldn't resist.

Play Nice! Play Basic! Out now.

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Wiggett
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st May 2003
Location: Australia
Posted: 2nd Oct 2004 11:09
now lets settle our trobules over a big bowl of strawberry icecream.

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