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Geek Culture / Is Anyone making money selling games written in DBPro ?

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Vite
21
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Posted: 10th Nov 2004 21:09
I am simply curious.

Are all the users here simply writting programs for themselves

or

Selling a few or a lotta games via various channels

or

Trying but not able to sell any games
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 10th Nov 2004 21:51
A few people have sold games - the Mahjong game for example.

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
Dodo
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 00:55
why don't you make a program announcments thread here and give people a demo, then if they like it they can buy it

if you have already done this then unlucky - make a new, better game and if this is really good people may decide that they want to try other games written by you too.

Part of solving the problem is actually noticing that the problem is there in the first place

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 01:06
DarkBASIC Professional has a handful of Commerical products currently, and is used in Professional Development Houses for X-Box Prototype development.

It is a commercially viable language given, time, dedication, talent, and a little luck. Unfortunately there is currently no title which could match up to full Commerical game status though.

The possibility is there however, and over the past 2 years, I have had the oppertunity to see quite a number of impressive projects that have the potencial to go further than they have.


OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 01:22
The main reason that there are few commercial games is that usually the graphics are rather simple (and not very good)...

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
Neofish
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 01:55
The best chance of a good commercial game to come out of DBP would be if a dedicated group of very skilled people (quite a few of them) got together and made the time and effort to make a game. It is possible.

[center]:: Architectonic 2.0 :: Notepad forever! ::
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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 04:31 Edited at: 11th Nov 2004 04:31
What you need is an exceptional artist, an exceptional musician, and an exceptional gameplay programmer to come together and create an exceptional game. It's hard for people like me to do a commercial game, because, although my programming skills are rather exceptional (no modesty here), my artistical skills suck.

I could see a game like Duo being a popular commercial arcade game, because that was a combo of the three above profiles.


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Rob K
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 04:44 Edited at: 11th Nov 2004 04:44
Quote: "Professional Development Houses for X-Box Prototype development."


Once again reality and Raven have become disconnected. I would love to see some evidence of this.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 04:48 Edited at: 11th Nov 2004 04:52
Where's the testimonial from Dave Perry gone ? I would suspect Shiny are using it for prototyping.

Quote: "my artistical skills suck"

Indeed

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
IanG
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 04:49
ditto

Used to be Phoenix_insane registered in september 2003 despite what the date says to the left <--
PC - amd athlon 2.0ghz, 512mb, GeForce FX 5200 128mb, 200gb, xp pro sp2
Toby Quan
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 05:00
I'll tell you what. I've actually been giving this very idea some thought lately.

I don't think I would easily be able to make a game for money on the internet. I think that the internet is too big of a market for me, because there are so many games that are just as good as mine being given away for FREE on the internet.

So, if I really wanted to make money, I think I would have to get local. Perhaps I could make a game revolving around something locally in my area, and then market it locally. Locals would be likely to buy a game that revolves around places and areas that they are familiar with.

Such as: I live in the Twin Cities, in Minnesota. How about a game where you explore Minnesota's history, or something like that? I think there can be quite a lot gotten out of local experiences.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 05:03
Quote: "revolves around places and areas that they are familiar with."

Interesting...

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 05:23
Quote: "Once again reality and Raven have become disconnected. I would love to see some evidence of this."


The Shiney Endorsement is still visible on the main site if you scroll down.

I doubt I could find you more evidence of other companies using it, because it isn't something your generally would go around shouting about. I mean how many companies do you know have banners on thier sites which say 'MADE WITH Microsoft C++ & DirectX'

Quote: "although my programming skills are rather exceptional (no modesty here), my artistical skills suck."


heh, nice to see Nick has some good competition in the ego dept.
this said it wouldn't hurt asking an artist in a while to help out with a project


Rob K
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 05:31
Quote: "I doubt I could find you more evidence of other companies using it, because it isn't something your generally would go around shouting about. I mean how many companies do you know have banners on thier sites which say 'MADE WITH Microsoft C++ & DirectX'"


So, in other words you cannot support your assertion.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 05:34
Alright Rob... prove to me that there are companies currently using Managed DirectX in thier game engine.

Remember you must do this without breaking any NDAs you may have with any said companies.


OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 05:41 Edited at: 11th Nov 2004 05:44
Quote: "So, in other words you cannot support your assertion."

Well, Shiny (or at least Dave Perry) uses DBPro - unless Lee & co went over to his place with some heavily armed dudes and force him to write a testimonial. No idea who else uses it though.

Quote: "'MADE WITH Microsoft C++ & DirectX"

I try and make sure our customers know my (no-one else writes the code) is written in C (and for the Sage system, in VB .Net).

Quote: "prove to me that there are companies currently using Managed DirectX in thier game engine"

I dont think anyone would be daft enough to yet.

Quote: "heh, nice to see Nick has some good competition in the ego dept."

Arrrr...

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 06:10
Quote: "I dont think anyone would be daft enough to yet"


Actually Jeku could quite happily back me up that this is going on. Question isn't people agreeing this is happening, but getting proof.

Aquiring proof is a whole different ball game.


Jeku
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 07:47
Quote: "this said it wouldn't hurt asking an artist in a while to help out with a project"


I've tried asking, but the best help seems to come when I least expect. For example, TheBigBabou designed my logo and emailed me out of the blue, and Aegis contacted me out of the blue asking to do the art for WordTrix 2.0... Whenever I ask an artist to help me, well, I never get a positive response from that

Quote: "Actually Jeku could quite happily back me up that this is going on. Question isn't people agreeing this is happening, but getting proof."


Wait, I'm confused. I could agree that people will admit they're using it, or I could agree that they're using it? Let me just say that it would be pretty hard to claim that developers are not using Managed DirectX for game development now...


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Rob K
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 08:29 Edited at: 11th Nov 2004 08:31
Quote: " Alright Rob... prove to me that there are companies currently using Managed DirectX in thier game engine."


Easy -

http://geekswithblogs.net/dkeithley/archive/2004/10/09/12435.aspx

And more evidence (see Game Requirements):

http://www.digitalriver.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=662236&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=45905&CID=0&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0

Touché!


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Nov 2004 08:45
hah hah... erm no Rob, that isn't what was ment.
if i wanted to proved Managed .Net / DirectX was being used in programming Microsoft have Quake2 on thier site.

those are singular development teams, not professional development houses. remember that is what you are asking of proof for here, as far as DarkBASIC Professional is conserned.

you just have to look in the forums for amatures trying to use it to develop on the X-Box. getting the dev houses to not only let people know they are but openly admiting to what they're using isn't quite a simple as a google


Dodo
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 00:55
oh yeah, i'm suprised that I forgot this before, but the upcoming FPS Creator is going to be sold(not really as game tho)

Part of solving the problem is actually noticing that the problem is there in the first place

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 02:07 Edited at: 12th Nov 2004 02:08
A couple of flukes have happened involving DBP games making minor lunch money for their creators, but other then that, no one makes money off DBP. And I doubt anyone can/would bother too.

It's all for fun.

-Progress chart
3d engine: 46% physics: 67% AI: 89% Sanity: -51%
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 03:41 Edited at: 12th Nov 2004 03:42
I think you could - it would just take time and effort, neither of which many people want or have.

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
Manticore Night
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 03:48
I'm just posting 1 version here and I'm keeping one(the full one) for selling.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
Rob K
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 03:50
Hi Raven, you asked:

Quote: " Alright Rob... prove to me that there are companies currently using Managed DirectX in thier game engine."


That is exactly what the links in question prove.
By the way, its their not "thier".


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 04:03
Yeah COMPANIES, both were solo developers. That said i should've rephrased it to include the fact that your obviously powered by C and can't take anything to be ment in context

also, i before e except before c.. sorry but if you have to sit there and pick on my spelling obviously you have run out of 'real' things to pick on. difference is i have mild dyslexia (phonetical) so i have an excuse, what's yours?


Megaton Cat
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 04:15
Quote: " I think you could - it would just take time and effort, neither of which many people want or have."


I used to have time and effort...just not the skill. O_o
So you'd have to rephrase that...

-Progress chart
3d engine: 46% physics: 67% AI: 89% Sanity: -51%
Rob K
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 04:33 Edited at: 12th Nov 2004 04:33
Quote: "That said i should've rephrased it to include the fact that your obviously powered by C and can't take anything to be ment in context"


Could I have that in English please?

Quote: "so i have an excuse, what's yours?"


I don't need one.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Chris K
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 04:42 Edited at: 12th Nov 2004 04:42
Quote: "Could I have that in English please?"


And maybe with a little less of these -

Any way.... that is a frickin' cool idea making a local game.

I will attempt it.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 06:30
Quote: "So you'd have to rephrase that..."

Okay - You need time, effort and skill...

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 07:11
Robert give it a damn rest, cause seriously trying to school my forum posts is just.. patheic.
Not only that but your being about as creative as a toothbrush, i mean like how are you trying to come across; honestly for a normal user it is just sad to be trying to act better, but for a moderator to do it.

C'mon that just trying for low-blows cause you have nothing better. Would say it would just show you as more of a cretin, but i dunno with some of the other users around here maybe it does show you off in a good light. Taking pot shots all the time though, i mean geez you must push sooooo much effort into your replies it is overwhelming.


Megaton Cat
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 07:25
I put no effort into my replies...that's why they are either about cats, or don't make any sense.

-Progress chart
3d engine: 46% physics: 67% AI: 89% Sanity: -51%
Xander
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 09:05
Since I came to college my replies on this forum have lost a lot of meaning...they are usually just meaningless posts with no meaning.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 10:32
Apparently, Dave Perry does in fact endorse Dark Basic.

Quote: " To get you started, if you are not a C or C++ programer, don't give up hope. A good route is by using a pre-built 3D engine, with the BASIC programming language. The reason I recommend Dark Basic is because I have seen some good 3D demos with it, and most importantly there are TONS of examples and people on the Internet to help you.
"


http://www.dperry.com/articles/dprecommends/beginners.htm
Toby Quan
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 22:49 Edited at: 12th Nov 2004 22:49
I definitely think you could make money with DarkBasic. You know, somebody made $40,000 selling games made with BlitzBasic, so why couldn't somebody do it with DarkBasic?

Quote: "Blitz3D costs $100USD (£62) and I've made more than $40,000USD (£23,000) from it to date. I consider that to be a pretty good return on my investment."


Read Blitz Member Spotlight - Name: Dave Kirk for more info:
http://www.blitzbasic.com/newsletter/newsletter.php?issue=10

If I was going to market myself only as a game developer, I would definitely use DarkBasic. I can use this amazing tool to make really good games! The trick is finding a good way to sell the games.

I think that the sales of "Driving Test Success" have proven once and for all that DarkBasic can be used to make money.

Good luck!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 23:08
Yeah, problem is more the markets being reached for, and a lack of bug support.

I'd say it is down to development mirandems
David is happy with making the cheap'n'chearful titles; this isn't the case even in Blitz3D.

This said, they happen to also have much more visible pep-rallying. I mean the development team there made damn sure everyone knew that Blitz3D was used for Nickeleon's downloadable games. When you combine this being on the Nick US site itself too.

See this is the major difference between TGC and BR. Blitz Research are not making as much money as The Game Creators; not even close. The community support, and interaction however is a likely factor in the success of thier developer. Developers there feel like thier part of the community rather than being cast aside for money.

I'm not talking about your 15yo who wants to create the next Final Fantasy; what I'm talking about are developers like Banshee Studios. Teams of people who have EXPERIENCE and know what it takes to make money from shareware. TGC is taking a more Microsoft route for themselves; this is going to make them all rich eventually, but as it stands .. it will eventually distance them too much from the community itself. Just look around, the fan-base really isn't what it used to be anymore. Alot of the older members have left for the Blitz community almost completely.

TGC really needs something for developers to hang out and talk to the developers frankly without the spam of the main forum, or stupidity of other members. Where we can SERIOUSLY discuss features and directions.

Something like an Advanced Focus group. Rich now, this communities best developers don't even touch DarkBASIC; they work in Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual C#, or Delphi. Contributions given help the community, but not actually touching the language itself.
It is the only way some know to help the community without showing that there is a serious underlying problem here.

It is 2 years on; and there is still a HUGE lack of titles.


Kevin Picone
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 23:23
Quote: "It is 2 years on; and there is still a HUGE lack of titles."


And there always will be, because game basic languages like DB/BB/Play etc etc, sell the customer the idea of making a games, which is quiet removed from the practice.

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic - Next generation 2D Basic (Release V1.00 Out Now)
David T
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 23:40
Quote: "I'd say it is down to development mirandems
David is happy with making the cheap'n'chearful titles; this isn't the case even in Blitz3D."


Me?

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Toby Quan
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 23:57 Edited at: 12th Nov 2004 23:58
@David T

No, not you, he is referring to Dave Kirk from my previous post.

@Raven

Interesting points. I choose not to look at it like that however. I think that TGC is still a young company. These kinds of things take time. You can't expect to release a product like "DarkBasic Pro" and then expect a flood of superb titles to be released from that platform.

For instance, where I live, nobody even knows about DarkBasic. I don't see it advertised in any game developer magazines. I don't see any DarkBasic books on the shelves of any bookstores in downtown Minneapolis. I don't see it on the shelves of stores I frequent (Best Buy, Target, EB Games, etc). How do you expect large amounts of people to use it if the product itself isn't reaching large amounts of people?
Rob K
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 00:19
Quote: "Taking pot shots all the time though, i mean geez you must push sooooo much effort into your replies it is overwhelming."


You are entitled to your opinion, but surprising though it may sound, disagreeing with you is not against forum rules.

@Kirk

Yes, DTS is a good example of how money can be made from DarkBASIC.

FPSC will of course be made with DarkBASIC, and that has already made money for TGC. T3DGM was a good example of fruitful use of DarkBASIC as well.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 01:00
Quote: "I think that TGC is still a young company. These kinds of things take time. You can't expect to release a product like "DarkBasic Pro" and then expect a flood of superb titles to be released from that platform."


Technically speaking so is Blitz Research, and Blitz3D is even younger. Not to mention DarkBASIC had no trouble with a good number of titles, or shareware developers making money from it. Since the next-step though it appears to me that alot of them have moved to Blitz3D.

Quote: "You are entitled to your opinion, but surprising though it may sound, disagreeing with you is not against forum rules."


Diagreeing no. Correcting my gammar, on a number of consecutive occasions would constitute as you are focusing on showing me up. Especially when there are other posts with gammar and spelling that is worst within this very thread. As such that is a 'Personal Attack' which IS against the forum rules.

Read the AUP, your a moderator, and should know it to the letter so you know what actions are breaking the rules.


Van B
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 01:23 Edited at: 13th Nov 2004 01:27
Anyone releasing a shareware DBPro game would have to insist that a potential customer downloads and tries the demo - for the simple reason of compatibility. I think the compatibility problems caused a lot of Blitz migration, like if DBPro isn't 100% compatible with every PC ever, then that's enough of a reason to switch. I don't believe that, and I'd be very interested in seeing what these early 'abandoners' have come up with in Blitz - no complete games I'm guessing, maybe 1 or 2 landscape screenshots.

A lot of projects are just too big for most attention spans - like how Equilibrium got moved to blitz, then abandoned, then mojomagic started a new project - which has been abandoned, now they're onto another project. I mean, does anyone else think that they were better of with DB?

I can guarantee that if Mojomagic started a DBPro RPG project, they'd have more support than they know what to do with, they practically could'nt fail to complete their game. I doubt they'd come back though - they'll potter around with blitz, then maybe C++, but I'm not holding my breath for a game release.


Van-B


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Vite
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 03:06
I See that this has touched a nerve an folk are thinking about it.

Another question

would the graphic user interphase possible with DBPro be sufficient to tempt you guys to buy a game for say,, £30 if you where not told that it had been written in DBPro ?

THat is for a FPS

Are the graphics circa
1, quake 1
2, quake 11
3, quake 111
4, Halo

For an RTS, (assuming thats possible)

Graphics circa

1, C&C (original)
2, Red Alert
3, Tiberium Sun
4, Red Alert 2
5, C&C : The Generals

I am focussing on graphics cos game logic I assume will be as good as the programmer/designer.

I have got a full, registered and virtually unused copy of dbpro + the Big Game writting book. But,

Davids Story is actually very sobering. $40,000 over 7 games an a coupla years is maybe,,,,,,,,

Cheers all
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 03:30
Game Logic is down to the Compiler though.
Blitz3D is still moderately quicker than DarkBASIC Professional in mathematics, pointers and general basic functions.

It isn't a huge gap, normally within a few hundred nanosecs; but that soon adds up for each operation. When your doing 1,000,000 operations / second this equates to an almost 200ms speed loss, which although doesn't sound like much; but that much lag in an FPS online is the difference between a machine and a pistol.

So game logic falls alot harder on the programmer to truely optimise what is going on and trying not to waste as much as possible.

Graphically, this is again down to the programmer. While you can't do anything similar to Doom3; you could do Halo graphics.
I know what went into the Shader End of C&C Generals, so currently I would say it isn't possible to recreate it; but you could get pretty close.

DarkBASIC Professional graphically could stand toe-to-toe with any other middleware solution, like OGRE3D or Renderware. The number of plugins available it could keep this up to equal Renderware in terms of Physics and other cool features.

But in order to produce something of that quality, does take alot of effort and a good team of developers. That is unfortunately what the DBP Community seriously lacks right now. heh


Chris K
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 03:37 Edited at: 13th Nov 2004 03:39
For a RTS you could get graphics as good as Generals for sure.

Check out Firewall in the showcase. That was created in DB Classic I think. If you made it in DBPro you could add physics (with Newton) and shaders.

EDIT:

Here's a link to Firewall : http://darkbasic.thegamecreators.com/?m=showcase_view&i=259
Mentor
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 05:23
......na! let em find out later

Mentor (I know a secret ).

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Indian Homie G
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 13:45
I think the Eternal Destiny is looking good, it has really great graphics and looks like awesome gameplay

AMD Athlon XP 3000+, S3 Deltachrome s8, 512 PC3200 RAM, 160 GB HD
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 14:01
Quote: "For a RTS you could get graphics as good as Generals for sure."


No, currently DBPs Shader Limitations prevent it. As I said, could get close to the same quality though.


Peter H
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 21:54
Quote: "T3DGM was a good example of fruitful use of DarkBASIC as well.
"

please tell me that's a joke...or maybe i'll have to drop DBPro now and go use c++

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Chris K
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 14th Nov 2004 22:10
They're aren't any shaders in Generals are there?

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