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Geek Culture / Who owns the Moon?

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Philip
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 05:46 Edited at: 12th Nov 2004 05:46
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My thread entitled: "NASA: Project Constellation" appears to have been hijacked by comments about who owns the Moon.

The answer is simple. Noone owns the Moon or, just as accurately, we all own the Moon, collectively.

The basis for this is Articles 1 and 2 of the UN Outer Space Treaty 1966: http://disarmament.un.org:8080/TreatyStatus.nsf/0/ceb6f0228d44f51e852568770079dd95?OpenDocument and Article 11 of the subsequent 1979 Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies ("The Moon Agreement"): http://www.unog.ch/disarm/distreat/moon.htm.

Cheers

Philip

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Neofish
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 05:52
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No-one does. Also you can't have stars named after you (comets yes, everything else no)

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Major Payn
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 06:05
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USA owns the moon muaha ha ha ha ha ha ha, or atleast we are the only country with a flag up there! Nah, I know, the Moon is still unclaimed territory, who would want it anyway?

Guns arnt the problem, people are the problems, shoot all the people and guns arnt a problems anymore.
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Mx5 kris
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 06:07
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I would. The moons resources in soil could provide enough to make the earth covered in small particles of Iron and stone for....3 weeks. Collectivly this is so much recorces, we would have much more.

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Ian T
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 06:13
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Though I like the general idea of the agreement,

Quote: "1. The provisions of this Agreement relating to the moon shall also apply to other celestial bodies within the solar system, other than the earth, except in so far as specific legal norms enter into force with respect to any of these celestial bodies."


That last bit will make it completely defunct once commercial colonization or mining becomes mainstream. Who gets to use what, and where? Who gives them the right too? Oh well, we'll burn that bridge when we get there-- for now, as I said, I like the general idea.

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Chris K
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 06:21
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I read in Schott's Original Mischellany that there was an act passed that forbid any nation laying claim to the Moon or any other planets in our solar system.

Some guy realised that it didn't stop individuals doing it so he just claimed Jupiter etc. as his property.

I thought that was why they could sell pieces of the Moon.

I'll try and find the guy's name. (It's not the best book for finding a specific thing)
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Sparda
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 06:45
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Did anybody know that the name of the moon is actually Moon? Weird how everybody calls it the moon, when it really is just Moon.


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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 07:09
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I thought it was Luna.

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Dave J
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 07:23
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Konrad is correct, the International Astronomical Union officially declared the names simple as 'Moon', 'Earth', and 'Sun'. The terms Luna (Moon), Terra (Earth), and Sol (Sun) aren't the official names, they're simply terms seen in science fiction novels.


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Mx5 kris
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 07:24
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They are the latin terms. Just like we live in the sol system (sun system)

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 07:28
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I own the moon dammit. Stay off my moon you dorks.

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Philip
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 08:50
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@Mouse

Once commercial exploitation of space becomes possible it will probably become necessary to amend the Treaties. Besides, not all countries have even ratified them yet.

All law is ultimately a reflection of the culture that creates it. As time changes so too does culture and so too does its law. Legal academics write very interesting learned discussions on this very topic.

Philip

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Phaelax
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 11:09
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It's whoever has put a stake on it, and we got the only flag there!

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Major Payn
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 11:15
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Quote: " It's whoever has put a stake on it, and we got the only flag there!"


Dang right! When can I move in?

Guns arnt the problem, people are the problems, shoot all the people and guns arnt a problems anymore.
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 11:24
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I want to ride on the pretty rocket ship! "Lets all go to Moon" sounds funny. Sounds like something a cave-man would say.


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Ian T
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 12:42
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Infidels... the aliens got there first

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 16:16
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no one owns it, but then use the argument to say "who owns earth?" it was given to us in the same way the moon was. so shouldnt we be free to rome around earth as we want, and surely its wrong to own private land

ok, so no-one owns the moon, but why why why did u plant the us flag there and not a flag to symbolise the world? your flag, but not your moon! MY MOON!!!

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Wiggett
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 18:03
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Quote: "It's whoever has put a stake on it, and we got the only flag there!

"


if it weren't for us aussies you wouldn't have video footage on your televisions of it happening, so we lay claim to some of it.also there was all the speculation on america not makign it to the moon but instead faking it.

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Van B
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 19:10
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We landed on the moon!?

YAY!!! WE LANDED ON THE MOON!


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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 19:22
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Why dont beers shit in the woods for 6 months of the year?

Sorry is that not relevent? That'd be because moon ownership isn't relevent now either - the law on ownership will be redefined when it becomes possible to get their cheaply enough to exploit it, should it be worth exploiting.

What I meen by this is, whatever we say now about how we'd like moon ownership to work will change when some industry fat cat 1%'er decides to pay whatever he needs to pay to have the law suite his new industry creating jobs in the provinces of the law makers...


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Dave J
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 20:23
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Quote: "Why dont beers shit in the woods for 6 months of the year?"


Because beers can't shit.


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flibX0r
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 22:11
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unless they're really old, then they are/can


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Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 01:34
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I get it... "CAN" ahhaahahahaha

I think Mexico owns Moon.


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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 02:03
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i reckon america's secretly put a secret base up there. it's basically america mk2. its got a giant UFO research lab, a survalence system and some grandoise mansions for the leaders of the illuminate

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Pricey
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 02:48
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My geography teacher owns the moon aparantly. She bought some mushrooms at the heritage market and after she ate them, she went to the moon and wrote her name on with tomato sause. Its true

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 04:45
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lol, my ex geography teacher WAS the moon

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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 05:31
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Helium-3 is a very potent source of clean energy.
There is an extremely large amount of helium-3 on the moon - enough to feed the worlds power needs for centuries. Now when we got the technology to build a mining colony on the moon there will be no need for fossil fuel.
But imagine China got there first? Look at all the trouble we have now because of oil. Imagine USA fighting China over who owns the moon.


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Ilya
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 06:35
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What if the moon lost so much weight, that it fell to Earth, then Earth fell to the sun?

Quote: "I've seen the word programming and I'm not sure what it means. Anybody please explain?"


Quote: "We shouldn't sacrifice the truth to preserve "balance"."
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David T
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 07:30
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Riiiiight.

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Jeku
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 07:39
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There is no flag on the moon-- that entire thing was staged by Nasa and faked. Just wait until another country goes looking for the flag and sees it was all a farce. Muhahaha.


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Oneka
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 07:59
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See if when I get rich (IF I DO!) and no one has really done anything with the moon iam gonna start a colony and dub it ZION and hmm....


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Ian T
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 08:27
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Quote: "that entire thing was staged by Nasa and faked."


Out of curiosity, was that clever satire, or are you actually of that opinion .

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Jeku
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 08:52 Edited at: 13th Nov 2004 08:53
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Quote: "Out of curiosity, was that clever satire, or are you actually of that opinion"


There's so much evidence against the moon landing that it's hard to put any trust in the "truth". It wouldn't be the first time a government has blown smoke in our faces.

That topic is for another day, and I'll state now that I don't want to argue it with anyone


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indi
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 09:07
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some guys is selling real estate for the moon.
http://www.lunarregistry.com/?source=gmoon

I dont think its valid tho.

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Ilya
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 09:12
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That's convincing.
*wonders weither he should buy it or not*

Quote: "I've seen the word programming and I'm not sure what it means. Anybody please explain?"


Quote: "We shouldn't sacrifice the truth to preserve "balance"."
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 09:16 Edited at: 13th Nov 2004 09:17
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@Jeku.. There was an interesting program on The Discovery Channel a few weeks back about that very topic. Until that point I believed it was a fake. Basically, they tried to recreate all that stuff and even with modern tech, they cant do it.. They can get CLOSE but not quite..

Things like:
"The flag is blowing in the wind!!".. No it isn't.. The flag is suspended horizontally by a support brace and it is flapping because the astronaught was twisting the pole to get it into the floor and it carried on as there is no wind resistance on the moon due to lack of.. well.. wind!!

"Shadows converge implying multiple light sources!!" Have you even seen lamp post shadows coverge (during the day).. I have!!

And so on...

[EDIT] I wonder how powerful-a-telescope you'd need to see that flag from earth (as an amateur, not a member of nasa )

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Mx5 kris
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 09:17
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from what they say:
Buy An Acre On The Moon!


As seen on The Ellen Show!


More than 800,000 customers from around the world have purchased real estate on the Moon from The Lunar Registry either as a gift or for themselves. Much more meaningful than naming a non-descript star millions of light years away, land on the Moon is a unique gift you can view almost every night. It's perfectly legal and perfectly fun!

Your property is permanently registered by the International Lunar Lands Registry in its annual publication, which is copyrighted and deposited in the United States Library of Congress and with international patent and trademark offices, including the United Kingdom (UK Patent Office), Japan (Japan Copyright Office), Russia (Rospatent) and with the United Nations (UN Depository Library), in compliance with the Berne Convention.

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Ilya
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 09:23
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Err.... my mom won't let me get it...

Quote: "I've seen the word programming and I'm not sure what it means. Anybody please explain?"


Quote: "We shouldn't sacrifice the truth to preserve "balance"."
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Mx5 kris
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 09:27
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lol.....I don't want it.....now if it was mars with its precious iron...

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David T
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 16:37
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lol, it's all fake. Your can't purchase bitsof celestial bodes, as Philip has explained.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 18:39
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Moon landing wasnt faked but ill put my reasons for saying so in the other thread

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bitJericho
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Posted: 20th Nov 2004 02:43 Edited at: 20th Nov 2004 02:43
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For some interesting insight
The man who sold the moon, written by Heinlein

(sci-fi short story, very good)

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AnDrEy
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If a country manages to get the technology to start anything large on the moon, they wouyld also have the technology to screw up every satellite in orbit (rendering ICBMS, mobiles and GPS useless), there would be no debate. Its the first military power- america, china or russia, one will.

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Scraggle
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Posted: 20th Nov 2004 05:08
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I own part of it.

You can too. http://www.lunarregistry.com/

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Philip
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Posted: 20th Nov 2004 06:24
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@Scraggle

Sorry to tell you mate, but what you own are:

1. a worthless piece of paper which calls itself a certificate; and

2. a right to sue whoever the hell is behind the Lunaregistry for failing to transfer good title to you. You may even have a claim in fraud against them.

See my original post above. The Outer Space Treaty, to which all the world's major countries are signatories, forbids any private ownership of the Moon at all.

Philip

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 20th Nov 2004 06:51
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its a scam. they take your money, know you wont live long enough to ever see the surface of the moon while not being on the surface of earth, wait for the paper to rot, live off the money they took. by the time you realise they dont have anything to do with the moon you're a 200 yr old decaptation.

what im more curious about is, what happens to religeon once we move out?

1) why the hell would we see the ghost of the virgin mary on mars? hhasnt she got better places to take a vacation? looks like anyone wanting a place of healing is stuck at lourdes, france...

2) do the muslims have to build another kabaa on every planet we colonise, or does everyone pray towards the direction of earth? it'd get tedious doing maths calculations 5 times a day to know where earth is...

3) where is who's holy land?

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Chris K
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Posted: 20th Nov 2004 20:02
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Similarly if we find aliens it would blow religion apart.
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IanM
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Well, I've just relocated my secret base to the moon, so I guess that means I own it now. So keep orf moi land.

As for that treaty, any of those so-called major countries should take into account how much easier it is for me to drop on a rock on them than it is for them to do the same to me. Gravity seems to be on my side

I decided that I had to move because a certain bear added my Volcano base to the 'Good Tea Guide' making it a less-than-secret base. In retrospect, I guess that adding jam sandwiches to the menu was not such a good idea

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Scraggle
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Posted: 21st Nov 2004 03:34
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Quote: "@Scraggle

Sorry to tell you mate, but what you own are:

1. a worthless piece of paper which calls itself a certificate"


I have no intention of arguing with you because you may be right, however, I will point out one thing it says on my certificate. That is, that there is a loophole in the very article that you have linked to which enables people to own real estate on celestial bodies but not countries.

Here is the article it refers to:
Quote: "Outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means"


As you can see, it only outlaws countries not individuals.

I would like to think that it is a valid ownership but I don't see it as anything other than a framed talking point and in that capacity it works very well.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 21st Nov 2004 04:53
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how does it blow religeon apart? theres loadsa religeons out there, ok, CULTS, that worship aliens, and as for normal religeons... well as far as i know mine doesnt say anything to hint aliens dont exist, i even used to have the SETI screensaver for a few yrs until i got bored of it.

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