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Geek Culture / Aspergers Syndrome and Autism

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 12:18
Hi,

Most of you must know what autism is. If you are unfamiliar with Apsergers Syndrome then read up if you are interested:-

http://www.aspergers.org/what_is_aspergers_syndrome.htm

I know that I dont have to tell anybody on here that I have aspergers syndrome, it is rare, but I wandered if anybody else on here has it or is autistic, I would much like to talk to you. The reason I ask is that the one other person whom I know has it, I found on here and did not realise for quite a long time of talking to that person.

So if you do, or you would like to know more about it then get in contact with me. I would like to share some of my problems and the best way to do that is to talk about them, this is the reason for this post.

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Wiggett
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 12:21
sounds like an excuse for angsty teens to cling to if you ask me

Mnemonix
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 12:23 Edited at: 27th Dec 2004 12:24
Heh, it may be, but I havent heard it used before. Most people havent heard of it, and people who are autistic, generally do not know that they are autistic.

Who knows, perhaps I am making excuses for myself. I just want to get a better understanding of what other aspergs(I made this word up myself) do to overcome some of the problems I have.

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Ian T
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 12:30
It's a name for a collection of symptoms-- not a disorder in and of itself... not to say they're not real symptoms, but it really angers me how the medical community keeps tacking 'syndrome'/'disorder' to collections of symptoms which could have a wide variety of causes without actually trying to find them.

I mean really you could say that anyone who, for whatever reason, is socially challenged and/or uncomfortable around strangers has that. I'd call it more of a personality trait than a disorder. But these days having a twitchy pinky finger is a disorder

Mnemonix
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 12:31
Aspegers syndrome is a specific disorder. It is part of the autistic specturm thing. I have been diagnosed with it, well before I came to this community though, I just hadnt decided to tell anybody up till now.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 15:26
There's no telling what I have. I never go to the doctor. Alot of that does describe me though. I just think it's my personality.

Wiggett
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 16:38
maybe its just you thinkin you're a pussy.

Chris K
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 17:22
Mouse, that's completely wrong.

Asperger's Syndrome is a specific disorder. My Mum studied it I think... she diagnoses it.

Stephen Spielberg has it.
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 17:24
Stephen Spielberg has Asperger's Syndrome?

Proves you can do anything if you set your mind to it.

Mnemonix, you should be a director!
jk

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
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Chris K
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 17:27
Yep

http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/PersonDetail/personid-9567

$2 billion personal fortune.
Now he really can do anything.

Like go to the moon or buy an island....
Wiggett
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 17:42
why would he go to the moon, he can just hitch a ride with ET anywhere in the universe for free, i mean jeeze he gave the lil guy a part in one of his movies, ET owes it to him.

Dave J
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 19:47
Quote: "It's a name for a collection of symptoms-- not a disorder in and of itself... not to say they're not real symptoms, but it really angers me how the medical community keeps tacking 'syndrome'/'disorder' to collections of symptoms which could have a wide variety of causes without actually trying to find them.

I mean really you could say that anyone who, for whatever reason, is socially challenged and/or uncomfortable around strangers has that. I'd call it more of a personality trait than a disorder. But these days having a twitchy pinky finger is a disorder "


Agreed, that's always been my belief. The biggest culprit is ADD, there's nothing wrong with the physical or mental make-up of the child, it's simply a combination of someone's personality and bad parenting that's causing the kids to run wild and sometimes become very violent. Creating these fictional 'disorders' is the biggest copout the Medical industry has ever faced. I could quite easily group a bunch of personality traits, call them symptoms and then label it "Exeat's Disorder" and no one would be the wiser.


Quote: "Mouse, that's completely wrong.

Asperger's Syndrome is a specific disorder. My Mum studied it I think... she diagnoses it."


You can't use that as an argument, my new magical disorder will be called "Hyperactive Disorder", it's symptons include energetic children with overly happy emotions. Now that can quite easily be studied, diagnosed and medicated, it doesn't make it real though.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you christmasy answers."
Eric T
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 21:13 Edited at: 27th Dec 2004 21:16
I'm diagnosed with ADD and Bi-Polar and i'm perfectly............What was i doing again?

DAMMIT TELL ME NOW!!!
I'm so sorry...
NO I'M NOT, I SHOULD KILL YOU ALL!

meh >_<

Edit: I haven't been on med's for either in almost 8 years BTW.

You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. He looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't **** around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that god was having trouble with.
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 21:56
Quote: "maybe its just you thinkin you're a pussy"
I think it's more of a "I just don't care about anyone else enough to behave differently." situation (at least on my part). I could be wrong though.

Mnemonix
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 22:02
Its just when people see me act differently, they treat me differently. Maybe if they can get an understanding of my problems, it may help.

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BealziBob
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 22:16 Edited at: 27th Dec 2004 23:23
That's simple human narrow mindedness Mnem. Blinkered fools always pick up on the percieved weaknesses of others in a sub-concious attempt to make themselves feel better.

That's their problem, not yours.

We all have our little personal foibles, most decent human beings find that this uniqueness is what makes people interesting.

Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 22:57 Edited at: 27th Dec 2004 23:07
Quote: "It is part of the autistic specturm thing."

I think you mean its something that is at the very start of the autistic spectrum .

Quote: "
Agreed, that's always been my belief. The biggest culprit is ADD, there's nothing wrong with the physical or mental make-up of the child, it's simply a combination of someone's personality and bad parenting that's causing the kids to run wild and sometimes become very violen"

If you want to piss people off, keep making stupid comments like that.

Quote: "Creating these fictional 'disorders' is the biggest copout the Medical industry has ever faced"

You wouldn't understand because you don't have it, therefore you don't have a clue what it is like, so please don't make comments like that.

Asperger's syndrome is with people that are only very midly autistic(as I said earlier, at the start of the autism spectrum). I reckon the only people that would understand what it is, are the people that have it. I'm not going to go into detail exactly what its like, because theres a lot to explain and I can't be bothered to explain it.

EDIT: Just checked that page. A lot of people won't understand what most of those things are, even for me I have to think deeper to understand what they mean by things like 'stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms'(though thats nothing to do with lack of information on the page).

Cerry Mhristmas!
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bitJericho
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 23:34
why do you say he uses it as an excuse? He came here to chat with others who have it, not about anything else.. What info has he provided that he needs to be excused for?

for those of you who don't know about asperger's syndrome, perhaps this is a more thorough and easier on the eyes description

http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html

Now enough ripping on the guy, I think he gets the point that he *may* have been misdiagnosed.. and I would hope mnemy is competent enough on his own to know whether he has been or not, or if he simply needs to 'get out and make friends'.

Quote: "AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting". "


You people need to grow up.


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Mnemonix
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Posted: 27th Dec 2004 23:36
Yea, well I could have been misdiagnosed, that is true, although the descriptions of the condition seems to fit me to a T, its rare and misdiagnosis is a possibility.

But yea, I just want to talk to other people about it .

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 05:22
Sorry to double post, but its just to bump this up a bit in case there is some one who has it but has not seen it.

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Dave J
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 19:33 Edited at: 28th Dec 2004 20:12
Quote: "If you want to piss people off, keep making stupid comments like that."


Oh really? Look up the definition of ADD: "A syndrome, usually diagnosed in childhood, characterized by a persistent pattern of impulsiveness, a short attention span, and often hyperactivity, and interfering especially with academic, occupational, and social performance." - Holy shit! That almost sounds as if they've grouped together a bunch of personality traits and labelled them as symptoms. Maybe you should open your mind and stop believing everything you read because you obviously have the incapacity to think independently (wait, I think that might be a new disorder!). I said it was my own opinion, I never said it was right or wrong but my comments most certainly weren't 'stupid'.

Or maybe you're right, maybe just because someone's different, there has to be something wrong with them. Actually, that does sound plausible, if someone doesn't fit into the sociological standards set out by the media then they must have a disease, because everyone has to act the way we expect because that's 'normal'.


Quote: "You wouldn't understand because you don't have it, therefore you don't have a clue what it is like, so please don't make comments like that."


And I'm sure you have a much greater profound understanding. Bravo!



Fine Print Disclaimer: Exeat will not be held responsible for the emotional suffering caused by the mental consumption of this post; he is simply a lost, little boy who is angry at the inhabitants of the world for creating a place where he would be looked down upon simply for living out his dream of becoming a ballerina. As a result, this frustration is being vent out through the meaningless and often incoherent posts that appear under the name of his schizophrenic alter-ego.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you christmasy answers."
Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 22:48 Edited at: 28th Dec 2004 22:49
Quote: "Holy $hit! That almost sounds as if they've grouped together a bunch of personality traits and labelled them as symptoms."

Have you ever met anyone with ADD? I have, so I know it exists. Stay out of it before I castrate you. Oh, and amazing that they let mods swear.

Quote: "And I\'m sure you have a much greater profound understanding. Bravo!"

Well yes, me having AS and you not, I would.

Cerry Mhristmas!
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Ian T
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 22:55 Edited at: 28th Dec 2004 22:55
Quote: "Have you ever met anyone with ADD? I have, so I know it exists."


You really don't follow... It's not about it not existing, it's about it not being a syndrome, a disorder. I know a few people who have been diagnosed with it (Eric was apparently a while back?) and it was, big surprise, just a personality phase they went through. Labeling these as medical disorders is an excuse to get normal, healthy kids on medical drugs as early as possible.

Quote: "Stay out of it before I castrate you."




Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 23:49 Edited at: 29th Dec 2004 00:00
Okay

Quote: "Look up the definition of ADD: "A syndrome, usually diagnosed in childhood, characterized by a persistent pattern of impulsiveness, a short attention span, and often hyperactivity, and interfering especially with academic, occupational, and social performance." - Holy $hit! That almost sounds as if they've grouped together a bunch of personality traits and labelled them as symptoms."

Maybe you should open your mind and stop taking everything you read so simply. I mean, you don't seem to understand what all that stuff actually means. Just because you don't understand, you start saying they have grouped together a bunch of personality traits and labelled them as symptons? Just because your so 'normal', you think everyone else must be . Sure, these little things make people different, but that doesn't mean they can't have some form of autism. I'm not saying that if someone has some of these symptoms, they have autism, because that is not the case. But people with autism have these manarisms(is that a word?).

Quote: "Labeling these as medical disorders is an excuse to get normal, healthy kids on medical drugs as early as possible."

I don't understand, why would they purposely diagnose people with ADD to get them on drugs?

I understand Eric T was diagnosed with it, and he may have been diagnosed wrong(I don't know, I don't know Eric), but there are people with classic cases of ADD, with symptons such as only being able to sleep for like an hour, and talking constantly about nothing , and general hyperactivitycyness(I made that up because I don't know the real word). Also stuff like never being able to keep still is one of the symptons - I mean chronic fidgeting. Sure it may not be as bad as that in the not-so-bad cases, but in the bad cases it is.

Cerry Mhristmas!
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 23:50
AS is not a disease, its a part of Me and Ben.

I have been clinically diagnosed with it.

If you neurotypicals have something nasty to say, post them in an NT only thread.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 00:10
Usually when you're taking medication for it, it's because you can't function in society without it. I hate to say this, but you won't be successful in certain jobs or fields if you're not on these meds. There are some jobs where you can succeed, and then it's up to the individual to keep taking them or not.

These aren't meds invented by the aluminati to control you, and they aren't invented to steal your money, they're drugs to help you lead a normal life.

Take the drugs or leave em, who really cares? You naysayers aren't the med police. You can judge people all you want, but that doesn't make you better then them.

People perfectly able to take care of their own health.


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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 01:10
Quote: "You can judge people all you want, but that doesn't make you better then them."


Making it obvious you haven't read anything we've been saying.

bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 01:59
Quote: "You really don't follow... It's not about it not existing, it's about it not being a syndrome, a disorder. I know a few people who have been diagnosed with it (Eric was apparently a while back?) and it was, big surprise, just a personality phase they went through. Labeling these as medical disorders is an excuse to get normal, healthy kids on medical drugs as early as possible."


What are you talking about, you're talking about how the whole thing is a scam because Eric T was misdiagnosed... So Eric grew out of it, how many others do?


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Dave J
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 08:11
Jerico2day, I don't think you've been following the discussion very closely, we're not saying we're better then them, we're actually saying quite the opposite. That they're the same as us, just with different personality traits.


Quote: "Usually when you're taking medication for it, it's because you can't function in society without it. I hate to say this, but you won't be successful in certain jobs or fields if you're not on these meds. There are some jobs where you can succeed, and then it's up to the individual to keep taking them or not."


That's going to happen to everyone bar the perfect human being, some jobs are simply not suited to people. For example, I can hardly see an anti-social person taking up a PR representative position, but likewise, I wouldn't see an outgoing, ambitious person becoming a tradie.


Quote: "Well yes, me having AS and you not, I would."


See, now here's the bit I don't understand, Mnemonix previously mentioned that most people who are Autistic don't even realise that they are, but, you're claiming that because you have AS, you seem to know much, much, more about it, the reality is, you're just repeating the same stuff that was told to you.

I think some people have misinterpreted the meaning behind these posts, I'm not trying to offend or attack anyone, I'm just having a quiet, clean discussion about the evidence that supposedly justifies that these syndromes do indeed exist. Finally, I'd like to point out how these disorders are labelled only on one side of the scale, how come we don't see any disorders that enhance someone’s personality? Seems a bit of a coincidence to me...


"Computers are useless, they can only give you christmasy answers."
Ian T
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 08:40
You can't perscribe medicine to fix what isn't broken, can you ? Hence there has to be something to fix...

Benjamin
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 09:22 Edited at: 29th Dec 2004 09:23
Quote: "See, now here's the bit I don't understand, Mnemonix previously mentioned that most people who are Autistic don't even realise that they are, but, you're claiming that because you have AS, you seem to know much, much, more about it, the reality is, you're just repeating the same stuff that was told to you."

I was diagnosed with it at the age of 11 at a psychiatry hospital in london called the Maudsley. Maybe I should have said that earlier.

Quote: "I'm just having a quiet, clean discussion about the evidence that supposedly justifies that these syndromes do indeed exist."

No point, you will never understand until you meet someone like it. Even then, you'll probably refuse to try and understand it.

Cerry Mhristmas!
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Dave J
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 09:51
Ok, so we agree to disagree.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you christmasy answers."
Mnemonix
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 09:58
Quote: "See, now here's the bit I don't understand, Mnemonix previously mentioned that most people who are Autistic don't even realise that they are, but, you're claiming that because you have AS, you seem to know much, much, more about it, the reality is, you're just repeating the same stuff that was told to you."


Thank you for that. When I said "autistic" I was referring to autistic savants and not aspies, in fact I was pointing it out as a difference between the two.

Quote: "
I think some people have misinterpreted the meaning behind these posts, I'm not trying to offend or attack anyone, I'm just having a quiet, clean discussion about the evidence that supposedly justifies that these syndromes do indeed exist. Finally, I'd like to point out how these disorders are labelled only on one side of the scale, how come we don't see any disorders that enhance someone’s personality? Seems a bit of a coincidence to me... "


Er, you nor I am in a position to question the judgement of some much smarter people who have spent the best years of their life researching this, this is not an argument for apollo, regardless of whether you do or do not think it exists. Coincidence does not enter into it.

Quote: " You can't perscribe medicine to fix what isn't broken, can you ? Hence there has to be something to fix..."


AS cannot be cured, it is incurable, but medicines are prescribed to improve an aspie`s way of life, so that comment is about the stupidest thing I have ever read.

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Dave J
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 10:13
What are you talking about? You don't need to be in a position of power to disagree with someone, I can question whoever I want. See, that's what gets to me, people who think that just because someone has more authority on the matter means they're absolutely correct and everyone should bow before them. That's just sad.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you christmasy answers."
Ian T
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 10:17
It is indeed sad. People thinking that because someone is supposedly smarter than them they have no right to question their conclusions. It's as illogical as it is foolish, especially without taking into account all the factors.

Sigh...

Mnemonix
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 10:22
I am not saying that it is not right, its just generally foolish to question it. If one of those guys came in here and started telling us that our theories on game creation were wrong, when they had never done it, they would not do very laughingly.

Speak of what you know about, and then you wont get nasty surprises.

Besides, I did not create this thread to start an argument about whether it exists or does not exist(for the above reasons), I just wanted to find some other people with the same condition so I could perhaps relate to them, and this is what I get.

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Dave J
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 10:41
Touche, but bear in mind that I'm not directly going to the doctors and telling them they're whole life is based around something that doesn't exist. I'm simply contemplating the fact that I may be onto a huge discovery that may bring down the whole system and cause an apocalypse... although, that could be a tad far-fetched.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you christmasy answers."
Mnemonix
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 10:48
Lol, im just saying that there is a good chance that they have noticed similar correlations.

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 10:54
Perhaps I took your point a bit too strongly, as Exeat said I'm sure we can agree to disagree. I find the surfeit of syndromes that have been invented in the past years incredibly suspicious but as I said before, I don't doubt the reality of the symptoms .

Mnemonix
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 10:58
Im just glad I can get away from those stupid psychiatrists. I am not on any medication for AS, so I just live with it and for the most part forget about it.

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 13:44
The picture on that site made me laugh.

Eric T
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 14:52
Quote: "What are you talking about, you're talking about how the whole thing is a scam because Eric T was misdiagnosed... So Eric grew out of it, how many others do?"


Use me as an example.... bleh

Actually, most doctors I went to suggested I take med's (this was after quitting the meds the first time), and not any other logical solution. Just expensive, addicting, large meds. I belive "FU" was the wording I used.

Now for the Bi-Polar, that one is an actual semi logical one, but i still don't take meds for it. I just think its a name given to someone who gets easily pissed off. No need for meds... who has the time?

You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. He looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't **** around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that god was having trouble with.
adr
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 18:17 Edited at: 29th Dec 2004 18:30
I think most people's disagreement here was with the terminology. I think that when Exeat berated the use of "syndrome" he wasn't challenging the existence of the symptoms, but the fact that medical dudes can put a stamp on a bunch of (usually commonly associated) charateristics, without any apparent research and get a syndrome named after them. For example, Hyperactivity and short attention spans aren't exactly chalk and cheese - you'd expect one with the other, but to term it a syndrome is a bit much. Basically, you've got an annoying little bastard on your hands there. It must be psychological, because what else can it be? The point is, this "syndrome" is no greater a discovery than farting in the bath.

[sweeping generalisation]
That said, if you look at all the classic Syndrome's, they're all pretty hand wavey and non-specfic - does that make them less valid?
[/sweeping generalisation]

Which brings me on to a very interesting point....
[cue violins]

My brother was diagnosed as a manic-depressive. Ever since then, I've heard the term (specifically 'depression') over used and mis-applied to anybody who's feeling a little bit odd. Oh yeah, "nervous breakdown" too. Getting a bit annoyed for a few days is not a nervous breakdown. My brother was "ill" for about 3 to 4 years (he's ok now... somehow ). Nothing is scarier than not recognising your brother's behaviour .... this person you've known for over 20 years and they're just not ... right.

It's the most harrowing experience in my life. I suppose the state of mania was a little more concerning than the depression. If someone's depressed, they're compos-mentis, but they just can't be bothered with life itself. If someone's manic it's what you'd scientifically term "as crazy as a box of frogs". Admittedly (almost but not quite contradiciting my previous point), the symptoms were kinda related:
Insomnia, Inventiveness/Creativity (stuff that would just never work), Short Attention Span, Contempt ....

I will agree that some disorders and syndromes are created and diagnosed under questionable circumstances. Perhaps it gets them funding or noteriety or something. I think it's all part of the same culture; the fact people now take a couple of weeks off work with a nervous breakdown is indicative of this "create and label" medical society.

Going back to the original point/debate ... Who says that social-ineptness can't be genetic? Yes, it's largely a charater-trait of someone, and that can be brought on through how the child learns/behaves... but who's to say that this particular character trait can be a result of something other than learned behaviour?


wow .. a raven-sized post.


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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 22:44 Edited at: 29th Dec 2004 22:45
Quote: "I think that when Exeat berated the use of "syndrome" he wasn't challenging the existence of the symptoms ... The point is, this "syndrome" is no greater a discovery than farting in the bath."


Oh, nicely put. That's exactly what I was trying to get at

Mnemonix
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 22:52
Well, the general public are usually hypochondriacs .

If a person matches one of the symptoms, then it obvious that they have said syndrome right? WRONG!, but of course most people dont know that and I now see the point that you are trying to make , It still did not have to be made in this thread however.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 00:18
Quote: "Going back to the original point/debate ... Who says that social-ineptness can't be genetic? Yes, it's largely a charater-trait of someone, and that can be brought on through how the child learns/behaves... but who's to say that this particular character trait can be a result of something other than learned behaviour?"

I don't see anyone saying it can't be genetic.

Quote: "I find the surfeit of syndromes that have been invented in the past years"

AS isn't something that just got thought up by someone. AS is a genuine condition named a very long time ago - something like 30 years ago I think. It wasn't just something someone thought of and labeled. The thing is, you don't know the history of these conditions and when they were discovered, and how much research has gone into finding the specific traits of people with these conditions.

To be honest you can have most of the traits associated with AS and that will just be your personality, however certain traits related to autism itself will be what will get you diagnosed with an autism related 'syndrome'. AS can average from mild to quite severe with people, although the more severe cases are something else related to autism. You see, AS is at the start of the autism spectrum.

I know your not just talking about AS, but anyway..

Cerry Mhristmas!
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Ermes
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 00:24
Mnemonix this tread is too long for me to translate, i only wish you can be ok with us and our community. Keep well.

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Eric T
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 00:28
Quote: " Well, the general public are usually hypochondriacs "


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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 00:40
To me it sounds like an actual syndrome, just a kind of lesser autism. Two of my cousins are autistic, and you couldn't deny that they have a "syndrome", how do most people with autism not know they've got it? It sounds like those people most likely have AS.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 02:11
Well, they would realise they are different, I suppose they wouldn't know it was autism until someone told them

Cerry Mhristmas!
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