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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / @Lee & Mike: More Flexible Commands

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Rob K
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Posted: 17th Jan 2003 14:24
One of the biggest problem with DBP at the moment is the sledgehammer commands. For example, you can set GHOST OBJECT ON or GHOST OBJECT OFF - you can't set the level of ghosting & the FADE OBJECT hack looks very cheap.

So a few ideas to improve the commands:

1. SET OBJECT ALPHA(object number, alpha)

Drake on RGT said that this command is very easy to add as alpha is just a colour like RGB in DirectX

2. Multiple Blended Textures

The ability to set multiple textures on an object and set the blend amount

SET OBJECT TEXTURE(object number, image number, texture number)

SET OBJECT TEXTURE BLEND(object number,texture1 blend amount, texture2 blend amount...)

then it would be nice to apply reflection shading as a texute

SET OBJECT TEXTURE TO REFLECTION(object number,texture number)

Then we could use this to achieve variable levels of reflectivity.

3. Ability to apply special effects to Limbs as well as whole objects

eg: SET LIMB REFLECTION SHADING ON or if the system above was used, then SET LIMB REFLECTION(object,limb,texture)

4. Ability to apply special effects to matrixes / terrains as well as objects

SET MATRIX REFLECTION SHADING(matrix,texture no)

SET TERRAIN REFLECTION SHADING...

Memblocks have made many other effects such as vertex manipulation and so on possible. As I am pretty sure that DBP supports multi-texturing, I think that these commands can be implemented.

Any comments?
NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 17th Jan 2003 16:49
Oooh I agree! Especially about the Alpha adjusting of each object, that would be very useful

ByronAJ
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Posted: 17th Jan 2003 19:36
Hang on....

Does this mean that you cannot control the alpha level?

What about alpha method (SRC_BLEND/DEST_BLEND)?

I hope so - I have just ordered a copy and if I cannot use these factors it useless to me...

ByronAJ
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Posted: 17th Jan 2003 19:45
Okay, I just read the help docs in the 30 day trial version I have installed..

It should be possible to control the alpha value by making use of memblocks - which is nasty because I presume at the lower level DBPro is going to Lock/Unlock a vertex buffer (Baaaaad - static buffers are better). Setting alpha via the material would be better - however this assumes that alpha under DBPro isn't manipulated via material in which case all the altering of vb's is not going to have an effect.

ICERGB
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 15:10
basic3d1-example.dba.dbpro
uses
set object texture 1,3,0
???
there is no mention of the 3rd state as an object texture.

Have you had much luck in using limbs?
Why do I need to use a mesh for a limb?
If you glue a limb it handles terribly.
Instead of using a mesh to make a limb shouldn't I be able to use a textured object to make a complete limb?
n3t3r453r
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 15:58
I agree too, very needed functions!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 19:28
The Alpha command is pretty simple to achieve with DirectX, it is exactly like adding an RGB ammount because it is the 4 float (hense RGBA)

As for the others, you basically talking about shaders which i do now within even DarkBasic using memblock - they're very simple and cost efficient to produce yourself.

What worries me about alot of these requests is that you all want DarkBasic to effectively make your game for you, and really it should be there to help you develop games without pre-coding an entire engine for 3D first.

I think you all need to step back and look at what you actually NEED rather than what you just want ... because personally there are a few things i'd like added to DBpro but i doubt i'd get the support of many people here for them because they'd mean you'd need a better understanding of the language to use them effectively (just like memblocks and types)

however it is a wonder why Alphaing isn't an option right now as you can use the Alpha Mask within TGAs and DDS etc... so it is kinda weird.
There should be 2 sets of Alphing one for objects and a pixel mask Alpha for textures

As for the Shaders though... the simplest methods are always the best, grab the UV map from the object and save that in an array ... then calc a sphere map of your object, and save that as the second level of the array, then crosspoint the UV points based on the movement of the model as the multipler and then combine the textures.

Et voila you have a shader working ... and it doesn't slow the program down too much either not unless your working on like massive 1024x1024 maps - just have to remember not to do a pixel per pixel sequence, you should be able to do upto 32 similtaneously

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Chenak
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 20:26
I agree, there should be a "set object alpha" command for objects cause "ghost object" is lame. They have it for sprites so why not have it for objects?

Limb collision would be brill too for making levels etc.

Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny...
Richard Davey
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 20:31
Limb collision is in Patch 4. Will ask Lee/Mike about object alpha levels.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Rob K
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 21:07
@Raven

Yes this stuff can be done with memblocks, but it is a very longwinded process. It would be much nicer if they were standard commands. I am not asking for DBP to make my games for me, I am just asking for more flexibility over how objects etc. appear - hence the TEXTURE / ALPHA commands. Easier control over Vertexes would be nice. Personally I like the way that Blitz provides the intimediate level tools, between simple commands and memblocks. Eg, there are SURFACE controls and things like VertexX(Object,Surface,Index). These could be implemented without losing the ease of use. Perhaps Lee could introduce an Advanced3D library.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 21st Jan 2003 11:05
Oooh Limb collision in patch 4? If it works quickly that will save me a lot of trouble

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st Jan 2003 18:43
Darth... VerteX(object,surface,index) would be simple enough to actually create as a plugin function - oki perhaps it would require a little work, but as you can throw it all into a dba an include it then no need to ever touch it again unless you update it.

and it takes very little time within pro and enhanced to use memblocks and arrays

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Rob K
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Posted: 21st Jan 2003 20:43
I agree Raven that it IS possible, but I think that it would be nice if we did not have to write our own plugins for it - it ought to be part of DBP.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Dreamora
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2003 07:35
why?
then, everybody can use it in his/her project and so, it would be a very cool feature of YOUR project. but i think, lots of people here still think DBP is something like GameMaker

click click - some lines of code -> Taraaa ... finished

The Wendigo
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2003 08:12
I agree with raven. I've worked in other 3D engines that are very well set up for a specific task and because of it, they suck if that task isn't what you want it for! To be completely honest with you guys, we should be on our knees thanking them for putting BSP functioning in DBP. Jamagic (the best alternative) doesn't support it! I asked why they didn't support it and they said it was because they wanted the engine to be simple so you could do anything with it. Instead of complaining, (myself included in this) we should be writing plugins and distributing them to the DB community. That way there would be plugins for every specific task, and we can either sell them out of DB or request DB make a spot for freeware plugins on their website so we can share our enhancements with everyone! It would be an awesome resource!

1.00 GHZ processor, 256 MB RAM, GeForce 3 64MB, SB Live!, 8 cans of soda per day
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2003 20:18
they currently do have a section for free plugins ... and underware design have been making outstanding plugins for years

their latest design Visual Worlds is probably one of the best multiplatform attempts at BSP style worlds that actually works i've ever seen
Kev and Kohai should get some good props for thier work.

i've made ALOT of plugin for DB Std|Ehd|Pro over the years, which are only in the circulation of those who have requested them - because i've noticed the pure unappreciation that people get for hours of work.

you share something and very few understand it, but most will use it without even saying a thank you for the hard work. Or they'll be like "this doesn't work by purely copying" ... and if it did then i'd be worried because it wouldn't be a genetic enough function to have been worth making.

It's simple making a function for a very specific taks - its much hard to make one which takes into consideration dynamics.

Ironhoof's Visual DarkBasic is another which alot of people have just overlooked because you actually have to program it in

such good plugins and such just goto waste and sit in the backs of websites - its a shame

right now on my HDD i have a plugin for Enhanced and Pro which will allow you to import Quake2 Models, BSP, Sprites, PCX as well as Extract and Compress PAK files!
but it is staying right where it is for a while, because all it does is give you the data to access - it doesn't completely load the BSP, Entities and such.

i could make functions for that, but they really need to be engine based!
and anyone who wants to import will have to understand my PVS engine - which is a template it isn't some exact thing you can simply cut and paste. More like a tutorial, but i know that alot of users here would just take one looke and then claim it doesn't work.
i'm here to DEVELOP games, this means actually programming them.

If the BSP in DBPro doesn't work, take your thumbs out of your ass's and make your own importer.

perhaps when you relise just how hard it is to get a SINGLE version of BSP working and that although they are similar the following versions do have differences which are very foreign to the others ... making a game which can load ALL of the major formats is pretty outstanding work - especially given the time frame.

Too many (sorry to say) unapprecitive brats at DB right now

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 00:09
@Raven / Wendingo

I understand, and of course I realise that DBP is not Game Maker. However, DBP's task is to make 3D programming easier. As for memblocks, it is really the kind of thing I expect to be doing in C. On occassion I have written my own plugins for such advanced things - but accessing a Vertex or having variable Alpha levels is hardly asking for DBP to write a game for me - I mean polygon alpha is a DirectX thing, not DBP.

"If the BSP in DBPro doesn't work, take your thumbs out of your ass's and make your own importer."

You haven't seen how complex they are! Hats off to Mike for the BSP work, it is buggy and the geometry is not always rendered correctly but given the complexity of the format - not bad. The X to BSP compiler is very cool too (Sorry but I have to say this - a certain rival game developing software tried this with a certain rival to CShop and failed ) - but writing your own is pointless if Lee or Mike fix the bug anyway. I tried writing a very basic BSP to X converter for DB v1. Let's just say that the results were very sketchy and innaccurate.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 00:32
i'm not saying use BSP ... all these BSP developers actually convert to BSP from Map format

which is ridiculously simple to translate (i mean its just extended VRML)
making world formats like BSP - or even BSP actually isn't as hard as it seems ... translating id software code ... now thats about as hard as it gets.
to say they have and unusual style of coding (and in particular naming) things is THE understatement of the year.

The BSP format itself is a simple premise ... its the setup that is mind boggling.
which is why you create your own version - i mean i bet Kevin from UW Design can tell you that the Vis isn't hard to get working - its just a long winded process to get it ALL working at one time.
constantly tracking down bugs because your taking so long to do something.

its the same with anything like this though, even importing simple formats like BMP or PCX - it is a long winded process, especially in DB Enhanced!

if your not willing to put in the time to actually program something effectively then you don't really want to program at all do you? you just want a new game to play.
that is fair enough ... but i mean the teams BSP doesn't include things like entities which covers doors, and such - so how exactly do YOU plan to achieve them - make them as an X and load as an object right?

but then how do you find out where they should be because you can't access the entity set and such - also how are you going to achieve collision or exploding areas and enemy placement?

if you have a second map set just for the entities, and wanting the collision better than the builtin - so then really what you left with is step 1 again because the function doesn't doesn't have EXACTLY what you need, and you've cheated by using it meaning that not that you're incapable but you won't want to finish because you've hit a problem with the project and don't feel like finishing after that... because you don't want to think about it.

at the end of the day - this is a PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE, not a functions-make-it-all-for-you product

BSP to X really to be completely honest would be a waste of time and a half - because the whole reason for BSP is the PVS ... which DirectX doesn't have.
So whats the point?

BSP is only really effective for FPS's as well - because it is perfect for enclosed spaces, but crap for open spaces... so really if what you want to create is an FPS
get GameStudio A5.

because the access to BSP is so restricted you can't really use it for any other real form of game effectively.
Not unless you do something elaborate to position and setup the game entities - which everyone will cry out for next will be a level editor which imports BSP and allows you to export and entity set for them.

As for the Vertex, Face, Polygon, Edge etc... blah blah tools - that is what Memblocks are for.
if you don't want to program using the memblock to achieve these goals why are you even programming?

i mean there is nothing HARD about memblocks, i don't understand why everyone things they are - i mean they're no different from accessing files.
Or are you telling me doing that is too hard now too?

HOW EASI DO YOU REALLY NEED THIS!?!?!

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Benjamin
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 01:59
Its not hard....DarkBasic is not hard....C is not hard....C++ is not hard...wait, yes it is

xxxpetratxxx
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Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 13:53
"if your not willing to put in the time to actually program something effectively then you don't really want to program at all do you? you just want a new game to play."

You are still missing my point! - DBP is supposed to provide a 3D engine. My job as a programmer is to do everything else (Physics, models, AI and so on). Asking for Vertex and Surface commands is OK because they are part of the 3D engine, nothing else. If I wanted to do the 3D engine I would make one in Delphi or C. Yes, I can write plugins but that would mean that my game takes a LOT longer to develop - and is considerably less enjoyable. DBP makes programming fun.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 17:07
C++ is pretty simple
its how people learn it which is convoluted lmao

DBpro is a 3D Engine with a Basic Language front ... but do you understand exactly what a 3D Engine is?

as far as i'm conserned its just laziness asking for such commands - just like the compression formats to be added.
just to make it even more and more easier and make sure people don't feel the need to learn the parts of programming which will expand thier programming knowlage!

all the 3D engine really is there for is sorting out the rendering piplines, calculate the rendering needs, all of those things which are generically almost identical whatever you program in DirectX or just truely brain busting.

have you ever actually taken a good look at the BSP setup?
i mean myself and a friend about 5years back translated Quakes BSP into an english setup rather than technical terms - and immediatly after you saw a flurry of people developing plugins to compile this and they work perfectly.

The format itself isn't hard - whats hard is the Visibility setup, which should be game based for specific situtations because generics for such things are just stupid - even in FPS's they've been altered for extra things because it really should be customised PER game.

you would only NEED to figure out these functions once, which oki might not seem as much fun for you - but once you have them, you keep the functions as a .dba which you can use whenever.

i mean whenever you start a new project to you always recode everything?
the major updates and points in .libs for C and C++ is so that these GENERAL things you want to use are infact common place.

but when you start using these things you notice that all programs end up with the same problems as each other ... i mean things like making a cube really is done the same no matter how you want you - 8 vertex, 18 edges, 12 polygons
that is ALWAYS the setup, and it is the exact same way to render it as well ... so rather than having 20lines of code in C each time you want to use it, you program something you can point to whenever you want a cube.

Once you have it why make a new version each time you program? why not simply save that code and paste it later?

that is what DirectX and OpenGL actually brought to the table, taking away the generics allowing the programmers to concentrate on the dynamics.

IF you see BSP as the only viable game world, then quite frankly your blind... as a programmer you must have the thoughts to actually innovate on the tools you use so that you can produce better results.

The fact that hardly anyone here ever finishs something and i've seen it so much with projects iv'e helped with which is why i striaght out refuse is that they get to a block in the road and expect everyone else to figure it out. Because all the functions they've used uptil then have been generic and built in - no flexibility leads to poor programs and games.

programming is more fun when you actually figure out something complex that you couldn't before... like in anything, its exciting when you can achieve something new that others are struggling with

if you do get say these vertex, face, etc... commands then what?
what if all you want is to know is the UV map point of the Vertex?

you'll still need to open the model into a memory block and take the data

functions should be things included which are impossible to add yourself without being able to access the core program... what if your model format isn't generic?
then these vertex options are useless.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Jetmech
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 17:54
Dark basic was created as an easy to learn alternative to C++ and Direct X, for "beginners and professionals alike". thier goal wasnt to create a 3d Engine for professional C++ coders.

Sure... Keep it flexible, Allow the power coders the ability to taylor it to their needs.... But dont forget about their original intentions for the product... theres nothing wrong with giving the less experienced coders the tools to compete.

Attreid
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 18:00
Dark Basic is very easy, I learned it in 3 or 4 weeks during the holydays before christmas 01, and I never learned how to make games before.
Some people say that c++ is hard. I cannot say if it is hard or easy because I never used it, but I think that Dark Basic is easier than c++

I'm following John, but I'm not john.
Lol, it is funnier in french
Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 18:02
To be honest Raven, I have never seen a good explanation of the BSP format / setup if I had then it would make life easier. I tried figuring it out based on a comment-less (virtually) BSP analyser tool (BSP-Q or something... can't remember the exact name)

"C++ is pretty simple"

Maybe, but the language is horrible, I don't like BASIC a huge amount but I hate the C syntax and C++ is even worse. Delphi is a much nicer language - the power without the pain.

"functions should be things included which are impossible to add yourself without being able to access the core program... "

But DBP includes collision, reflection shading, cartoon shading, BSPs and so on - but you could theoretically add those without access to the core. BSPs could be converted to a memblock then made into an X model if you really wanted (OK - maybe that is a bit far fetched). You could also not include support for JPGs and all the other image formats except TGA & BMP - but DBP does.

It seems that, if you don't mind me saying so, you don't get the point of DBP. It is not just a 3D engine as you defined a 3D engine, but also a programming suite which MAKES GAMES PROGRAMMING / PROTOTYPING easier and faster. Laziness doesn't come into it. If I had to write my own converters and functions for everything that DBP provides that is not part of the core 3D engine then it would take me twice or three times as long to produce a game, running other people's source code would be far more difficult. If that is all I want (a 3D engine) then I can a DX library for C.

"what if your model format isn't generic?"

Once a model has been loaded under P4, it gets converted into the DBO format - thus all models would be standard.

As for variable Alpha levels / Variable Reflection shading - this IS DEFINATELY a job of the 3D engine.

/discussion.

Raven

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 18:25
DarkBasic was to make games programming easier ... and although professional is also along these lines - it is there to BRIDGE the gap between a basic language and C|C++

the shading can be done by the users and quite frankly i've never seen anyone using them yet.
the collision for every project i've seen go further than the demo stage has been redeveloped external from DarkBasic itself, even the team gave examples of better collision that DOESN'T use DarkBasics own system.

and BSP to do it properly you require projection mapping, which IS a render feature and you need direct access there

and just because ALL formats can be converted to DBO format, right now if you make a model with a memblock then it is converted to DarkBasics own model format or atleast DirectX - but it is STILL your own format, because you can develop other things along with it.

personally i think that everyone just wants to waste the teams time because they're lazy
if you think about it ... i'd RATHER they added support for arrays in types, classtypes which can use functions in them, different data use - because right now you can convert Hex and Binary to strings, but not strings to Binary or Hex ... i'd very much enjoy the addition of Hex use within the language.

from how i see it - i prefer to program within DB Pro rather than C++ because they layout is less confusing even for more complex programs. And althought yes Microsofts IDE helps with it, it is still quite confusing doing certain operations.

I'd personally like to see a DarkBasic language actually advance to the stage of being a language RATHER than simply an engine front.
And i feel over time because of the Core SDK comming up with patch4 with the new pipeline, and consectutive patches ... it is going to start gearing more and more towards this fact.

But if you still want these functions DON'T waste th teams time asking for these but ask for someone to make a Third Party function for them - this will allow the TEAM to work on making it a more flexible product, whilst external users like perhaps Underware Design or Real Game Tools, etc... work on all of these functions YOU want to make the language easier.

personally i think its simple enough and this is just being lazy - but thats me

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 20:17
I don't think its Lazy as such - Shader was only suggesting ways to improve the product by its own specification "We've made the whole process really easy too, so you don't need a math's or physics degree" - DarkBasic was meant to make professional results possible WITHOUT past knowledge of programming - "No previous programming experience needed"

Personally I think the language should evolve and add more commands to make more effects possible without external coding. However, if you need the effects right away, sure, code them yourself! Every1 will be impressed at your skill I do agree that DBPro should be a complex, expandable tool for users to program with, not a quick fix "easy option" utility.

"Too many (sorry to say) unapprecitive brats at DB right now" - YES I've noticed this too. I think many people expect this to be a quick drag and drop application, quick fix, like Click and Play in 3D.

I don't mind New Users coming to the forums and asking sensible questions, trying to learn the language. What annoys me is the ever increasing ammount who come on and say "can any1 give me some example code of a good game like Metal Gear Solid 2? How do I make my characters breath catch in the air, and make the camera move properly? So far I have 'rem My New Game / Print "Why can't I program?" ' "

Anyways don't worry I have a feeling that all the quick fix users will abandon DarkBasicPro and come and use my new software, its a NooB tool more capable of doing what they want. However, once they get the urge to learn more, its expandable with DBPro code, Visual Basic, Delphi, C, and C++. However I guess most people will just use templates and make clones Anyways they'll be on MY forums and out of your hands

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 20:37
hehee sounds good to me

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
regujka
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 20:43
Please Send somebody me the dbpro examples for the shaders and for the vectors!!!!! My adress: [email protected]

Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 22:29
Well, I disagree with you on most of those counts but I respect that it is your opinion.

But:

ALPHA levels and REFLECTION shading and the flexibility of the 3D engine are at the heart of DBP and are not addable by external teams.

If DBP progressed the way you wanted it to then it would not be at all accessible for beginners - which is the whole point of DBP. By beginners I mean people who are prepared to sit down and properly learn how to use DBP, but still want to enjoy doing it. Somehow fiddling around with matrixes, vectors and so on can take the fun out.

The important thing is that the flexibility & raw low-level power is there when people want it. And it already is. I agree with arrays in types and hex / bin types & possibly functions in types... but & think that DBS can do both.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 22:29
"Well, I disagree with you on most of those counts but I respect that it is your opinion."

I was referring to Raven BTW

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 22:30
Please Send somebody me the dbpro examples for the shaders and for the vectors!!!!! My adress: [email protected]


>> this is a joke... right?

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jan 2003 01:48
Reflection Shaders ARE NOT for the beginner to be messing about with... and Alpha isn't a shader.

I agree that ALPHA should be a part of the 3d commands for models and IT IS being added with DBO.

what i object to is actually given beginners free run of things that are TOO powerful for them.
Editing objects should be left to those who are willing to learn it to understand it ... else you get alot of users like Blitz who don't use it properly and wonder why they're having problems!

But that said... in Blitz you don't have memblocks to achieve the same goals - you have to access PTRs which is potencially a dangerous weapon in the wong hands!

you have been given the higher degree's of editing so that you can learn to use them - rather than having to mess about ... i mean sure Blitz can multi-texture - but so can DB, it just isn't builtin.

THIS is what forces people to learn ... yes darkbasic standard was a program which made games development easier - and professional extends on this.

However i'm afraid if your serious about games development and willing to learn, you have to take the good with the bad. It isn't all fun and games (no pun intended).
To really make something worth while that people will play YOU WILL have to program something you don't want to!

i'm sorry but if they do make commands like that (which the sad thing is as most people here are newbies) when they take a vote on what to create next, seriously that will give everyone NOTHING NEW.

i think what your missing here is that DarkBasic started out as a games developer - but over the past 4years these guys have realised that this isn't what we're all simply using it for... it is turning into its own language.

if you don't want to program in the boring and "not fun" part of programming then you're games are gonna suck unless you find some sucker who releases a code snippet for this.
quite frankly THIS attitude is the whole reason i don't release things publically - because i see them being used less as the educational means of "a way" of being able to achieve something but simply being hacked into people programs and abused for thier own purposes.

i guess is personal opinion ... but those who think like a newbie, code like a newbie.

if you think about it your parents arn't going to give you the keys to the car until you learn to drive (unless you have REALLY stupid parents)
same goes here ... if you want something you can make it, why should it become a tool which really is so restricted in it use it would be better to just use the memblocks in the first place?

this is really beginning to get to me now how someone can be so blind to progress of a language just to make thier life 5minutes easier!

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Rob K
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Posted: 24th Jan 2003 13:51
"Alpha isn't a shader."

I know that! - as far as DX is concerned, it is a colour, I think.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jan 2003 14:20
well is part of the colour in most cases of its use ... does baffle me greatly why it wasn't setup

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Rob K
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Posted: 24th Jan 2003 15:20
Agree, I mean the GHOST COMMAND already uses alpha. I think it is because the DB team try to make the commands as simple as possible to use. But I hardly think that GHOST OBJECT ON object,transparency would have been confusing, or GHOST OBJECT ON object[,alpha]

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 24th Jan 2003 21:25
Exactly - The lack of Alpha-ing of objects (sorry bad terminology) is very strange. What kind of Alpha level does Ghost object use? It looks around 50% ? I would love to be able to fade and object in or out of the screen using Alpha, like u can in Flash I can think of 100s of other uses for such a function too. Unfortunately I have no idea about how to implement such a thing using plugins tho I'm better at games and app programming

Rob K
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 00:38
I don't think you can do it using plugins or DB code - AFAIK you can't set alpha in the memblock.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 14:39
you could for the objects... but not the models
the only way to alpha right now (because the SDK is SCARILY under documented) is actually use the fade and ghost commands.

but that is far from accurate, especially when you turn down or up the ambient camera.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Rob K
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 15:35
"you could for the objects... but not the models"

I don't quite understand - when a model is loaded into DBP it becomes an object. I presume you mean that you can / could set alpha for primitives but not imported models.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 16:07
sorry my mind is all over the place today ... i ment images

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!

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