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Geek Culture / Violent stick-figure drawings put kids in cuffs

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Ian T
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 11:38
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Quote: "The thing people forget is we are NOT a 2-party system...no matter what schools may tell you."


I think we should have equal party representation regardless of size, and for crap's sake, take the schools out of control of the major poltiical parties!

Quote: "I think we would probably be much better off with one of the 3rd party candidates as president(excluding Nadar...just as bad)."


I'm with you there

Quote: "seriously, im trying to figure out the purpose of these rules. "


It's beyond ridiculous. It's... argh. It's truly insane. Essentialy the government is forcing you to run your life a certain way, seeing as you have no choise but to go through the schooling system just so.


As you guys can probably tell, there's no love lost between me and the public schools here

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 11:39
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Quote: "I think America has a lot to answer for, I mean FREEDOM FRIES!?!?! Come on! That has to be the lamest and most annoying name ever"


Hmmm.. and exactly why are Hot Dogs called Hot Dogs? (that's not a rhetorical question, go look it up) - Hint: same reason, different era.

It interests me why a number of Americans here are all like "Who cares if you hate us" - exactly what is it that makes you think you're hated in the first place? Is this a propaganda / media exercise or something? (perhaps Mouse could answer this one).

Various people hate the war in Iraq, but mostly because they see it as pointless. I really doubt that the average joe could give a flying monkies what your government is up to, certainly not enough to "hate" them for it, it's just really not important enough to us. If this forum had been around in the 70's I imagine we'd have the same kind of theme going on but with a Vietnam flavour instead. Or in the 40's perhaps a Germany theme. It's just "that time of the decade" again when a super-power feels like flexing its military might. Have fun, get it over with, let's move on.

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Eric T
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 11:41
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What, you guys weren't told we changed our slogan? It was "Land of the free", but now we are the "Land of the free until you have an opinion that opposes that of the current administration."



<Mouse> lag, d'you like "real" RPGs? : <drac_work> ... : <drac_work> isnt that an oxymoron : * Mouse slaps drac_work :
<Mouse> don't contradict me bitch
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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 11:46 Edited at: 28th Jan 2005 11:49
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Quote: " I remember when I was 7 years old the kid to my left stabbed the forehead of the kid to his left with a sharp pencil."


When I was in Grade 5 I got into my first fistfight with another kid. You see, the kid was chasing me around with a hockey stick during lunch time and it really ticked me off.

*sigh* Only in Canada.

Anyways, I was holding a pencil crayon in my hand at the time and we basically exchanged a few arm/face/chest hits. Turns out I punctured his face with the pencil crayon and he ended up getting stitches. I felt so bad considering I didn't even know I had the pencil crayon in my hand. It was one of those slow motion thingies that get your heart racing real fast and you can't think logically.

And for those of you who think the world hates America because of GWB can go suck an egg. Seriously. I have been very politically active way before Bush Jr. was in power, and the notions then are the same as now.

Stereotype Warning (for those of you that can't handle stereotypes, please skip the next paragraph): "Americans are ignorant about anyone else besides themselves (think China). They think Canada has a president and his name is John Poutine. They also believe we live in igloos and hunt seal for sport." The resentment doesn't have anything to do with GWB as you can see.

EDIT:

Obligatory warning - Those aren't my feelings in case you haven't figured it out by now, but the feelings of the majority of Canadians that don't like Americans.


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DarkSin
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 12:00
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@ Rich
Quote: "It interests me why a number of Americans here are all like "Who cares if you hate us" - exactly what is it that makes you think you're hated in the first place? Is this a propaganda / media exercise or something? (perhaps Mouse could answer this one)."

Im not mouse but ill give it a shot.

Our media only ever shows us bad things, mostly never showing anything about how many we have lost in the world and how every country out in the world hates us to no end. It never shows us anything basicly but protests in goverments of our allies and mass protests from any other goverment outside *and inside* the us. Our media basicly goes for anything negative to show us...


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Ian T
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 12:20
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Quote: "It interests me why a number of Americans here are all like "Who cares if you hate us" - exactly what is it that makes you think you're hated in the first place? Is this a propaganda / media exercise or something? (perhaps Mouse could answer this one)."


Hard for me to answer this one for two reasons-- the first is I don't actually watch TV except online, and the second is the media is so messed up here it's often hard to tell what they're trying to make you think (though it's obvious you're not getting the whole story). ABC is slanted to the left, Fox to the right, et cetera, the basics are easy to discern; but I wouldn't be able to determine the feeling one got from watching these stations of what the world thinks of us. Certainly all stations convey a sense that there's a lot of political hostility against the US govt right now.

Online, at least, there's a lot of anger, a lot of prejudice to be found-- not particularly in excessive amounts, but it clumps together, so to speak, and can seem rather overwhelming at times.

Example: A few days ago I fired up the Halo trial and the most popular game in the listing was Americans_Suck; getting flamed on message boards for being American (I still don't understand how people can seriously blame individuals for their government's actions though); etc.

Now naturally this makes sense: America is a big place, currently making a lot of political noise, and as you said, flexing its military might. It's natural there will be a lot of pissed off people in the world, and the rights and wrongs and geniuses and idiots and ifs and buts of the separate issues and arguments don't matter much when you're looking at things in that scale.

And it's also natural that you'll get that knee-jerk 'Who the hell cares what you think' sort of passive aggression from a good deal of Americans. Most of these people are probably just not interested in debate, patriotic to a fault or perhaps just plain stupid, I don't know, but ultimately I think it's a rather predictable response to even a small amount of aggressiveness.

Sorry for going off on a tangent there .

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 12:23
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Quote: "But I do think that normal citizens should be much more aware of what is going on with their country."


Sure.. but you're not in my country I couldn't care less what your government is up to until it hits my doorstep. I guess you're right about the media only reflecting the negative - but if you think about it for a second, it's all they've got - people sat at home quietly who either support the war or don't care less eitherway don't make for good TV.

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Ian T
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 12:28 Edited at: 28th Jan 2005 12:29
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Since this is a totally different topic, I'm making a new post instead of editing my previous one

Quote: "Did you know United States government was actually created to be governed by the people? Why is it that it has for the most part reversed? The government seems to think it can control us and do as it pleases but the US was not created that way...people just don't realize this."


That's a very complicated issue. Realistically, in any kind of a democratic system (ours is a federal republic, which is democratic in the broader sense), the people rule the government rules the people. You'll always get some people who feel they are being repressed by an unfair government no matter how democratic your system is. I think the standards our government is based on are excellent, but it has, as you've said, deteriorated.

I believe the major flaw here is the upscaling of the government. The Democratic Party right now believes the way to fix all of America's problems is to take power away from the people and give it to the government. They have programs they want to put through that take away control of more of our money, our medicare, our right to bear arms, and our charities; they want to put a cap of peoples' economic success, 'rebalance' the economy, etc etc etc. Flamebait comment, but frankly I think the DMC is getting worryingly like a communist party.

The GOP isn't helping things-- instead of downsizing the government like they say, it's just saying sort of static while we have a Republican president or congress, and on civil rights issues they're putting things through like the Patriot Act which effectively suspend our Bill of Rights. No matter which party has their way, unless America starts turning to third parties (plug: Libertarians rock!), I see a grim future ahead.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 12:31
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Quote: "And it's also natural that you'll get that knee-jerk 'Who the hell cares what you think' sort of passive aggression from a good deal of Americans."


Yeah, very true - it just amuses me when I read it here, the whole "I don't care if you hate us" thing - it always makes me sit up and think, "err, actually you mean nothing to me at all - don't be so arrogant to think I even care"

I used to be quite fascinated in world politics and now I just couldn't give a damn, my issues are with local politics and what is happening in my area - why the council need to charge more housing tax, why the average salary is still pitiful, local school funding, etc. Those issues actually have some meaning to me. The more "over-patriotic" out there would do well to think more locally also, imho.

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Ian T
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 12:37
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You have a good point there.

My two cents: People should be more concerned with local and federal politics. Too many people don't seem to care about anything at all in their country, and that... really annoys me. I'm absolutely with JFK on that one, and I hardly think it just applies to America. Everyone should be concerned about how their government affects their and their friends, family's and children's lives.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 12:52
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Quite - most people will have an "opinion" on why the US went to war in Iraq - but very few will say anything about something as fundamental as local area crime rates, inner city pollution or local recycling levels. I guess it just isn't "cool" enough, even though it effects their lives every day!

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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 14:04
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Quote: "The more "over-patriotic" out there would do well to think more locally also, imho."


Agreed. The president gets all the heat, but what about stupid decisions your city counsellors might vote for?


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Wiggett
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 14:59 Edited at: 28th Jan 2005 15:03
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Quote: "meh, open your eyes, and realize that the human race is still very much a barbaric species, we kill each other, we wage war on each other, and look at the mass genocide throughout the ages, humans are violent, there is no getting around that.
..... I am a 16 year old....
"


open your eyes and stop acting like you know everything about how the world works. You are 16, your opinions don't count and franky neither do mine (save for this one). Anyone on these boards acting like they know everything and if you don't think the way they do then you are nothing can go and get stuffed. If you don't think the way I do i couldn't give two ships unless you go and annoy me with inane posts etc, or if you act like you're top of everything. there are only a few people here that ARE the top of everything and they are called mods.

Quote: "Kids 8 and 9 should be outside chasing each other around playing tag, not expressing violent images."


Isn't tag somewhat related to voilence, i mean you must chase down someone in order to tag them (which is done by striking them), then run in fear of being struck by the person who is now it. I mean in a sense i could say to the police when they arrest me for slapping my wife that we were merely playing a game of tag.

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Van B
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 18:03
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Some of British playground games are fairly dangerous, like British Bulldogs:

You use a 5-a-side football pitch (usually painted onto tarmac) and get about 6 people on the halfway line, then everyone else (usually the whole school) wait at one end of the pitch and have to try and get to the other side - if they get dragged off the pitch or your last to the other side you have to join the defense in the middle (which is still a lot of fun).

13 stitches and a concussion the last time I played . Every country has a schoolyard sport that's fairly violent, it's just how kids are, it's more fun to play soldiers than tag. Hell there's about 20 variations of tag that involve group beatings as part of the rules!.


Van-B


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Wiggett
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 20:07
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haha yeah we ot british buldogs banned at our school, but it was an awesome week of gaming. plenty of teeth out on the oval. plenty of other games similar to that that got banned too.

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Gir
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 20:56
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Hehe British Bulldogs, loved that game at school

I really dont care that the Americans changed the name from French Fries, but they changed it to something that sounded so pretentious. It just irritates me.

Heh HotDogs

I'm makin' a cake...
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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 01:21
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Most people I met always thought the whole 'freedom fries' thing was ridiculous, and it wasn't a corporate move either. For something to take such a large effect it would obviously have to have roots in some large organization, but I don't know which one; nevertheless, it was short-lived and oft mocked. I always thought it was weird (but my mom liked the idea)

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Neofish
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 02:51
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Quote: "It was one of those slow motion thingies that get your heart racing real fast and you can't think logically.
"

When that happens to me I get better at thinking great fun is adrelenalin

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bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 05:04
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I'm 20, I enjoy violent video games, and violent cartoons.

When I drew my stick figures I was giggling the whole time, thinking "they're gonna love this".

I get sick looking at imagery of real violence, like on some websites of dead/murdered/killed/etc of people.

I get sick when I hear of deaths/murder/violence on the radio.

I'm in no way disturbed, apparently, as I don't have the incling to kill, or hurt anybody.

I just enjoy violent entertainment

Should a 10 year old? I don't think so, far too young to understand why what he's looking at is wrong, and thus, can't figure out why one is funny, and one is sick.

That's why I don't think they should be getting arrested, either


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Neofish
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 05:10
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Quote: "Should a 10 year old?"

OO lets bring in the classic "bad upbringing" argument

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 05:11 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 05:11
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I watched The Matrix when I was 12 and I developed an inescapable urge to shoot police officers.





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bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 05:17
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nah that's not what I mean,

Im saying, was it right for the kids to make it, in their own mind it was, they probably thought it was a h00t, but they didn't grasp the concept that making violent images of people representing *real* people is not only a bad idea, but threatening to the victim. They did it just to be mean to the kid. I remember when I was a kid, when I did something like that, I did it to be mean, to hurt their feelings. Not to actually kill them.

I think they should be punished, and I would hazard a guess that the teachers probably recommended that they're parents aren't capable of disciplining their children.

I teach kids, who's parents aren't capable of disciplining their kids, those kind of kids are easy to pick out.

That's probably why the law is going to intervene.


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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 05:20 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 05:32
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to build on what digitalmodr said, and this is just my own opinion here: why are we (america) going after countries with nuclear programs and shutting them down, when we have them? hmmm, i smell world domination/conspiracy!

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Major Payn
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 05:57
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Quote: "open your eyes and stop acting like you know everything about how the world works. You are 16, your opinions don't count and franky neither do mine (save for this one). Anyone on these boards acting like they know everything and if you don't think the way they do then you are nothing can go and get stuffed. If you don't think the way I do i couldn't give two ships unless you go and annoy me with inane posts etc, or if you act like you're top of everything. there are only a few people here that ARE the top of everything and they are called mods."


I'm going to go in the corner and cry now, thanks alot! I don't think I know everything, but that was my opinion on the matter, meh.

Guns arn't the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arn't a problem anymore.
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SageTech
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 06:09 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 06:12
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if america is such a bad country, then explain why people escape to the U.S from contries around the world. by the way, i think there has been some over watching of michael moore "documentries" here.

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 06:29
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Jerico, I know, it was just a general bit of humor. I agree with what you said.

Quote: "why are we (america) going after countries with nuclear programs and shutting them down, when we have them? hmmm, i smell world domination/conspiracy! "


You haven't stupidied how it works have you ? It's not us shutting down nuclear programs, it's the UN. We have organizied mutual nuclear program reduction with other countries (under Republicans I might add) in the past, but not enforced it with violence. In the Cold War, things were different, and you know what? If we hadn't threatened mutually assured destruction, it's likely half the world would have been blown to cinders. It's a paradox but it's how it works.

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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 06:57 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 07:03
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Quote: "i think there has been some over watching of michael moore "documentries" here.
"

yes, and he caused a lot of controversy because he said stuff that contradicted the government and the media. and the word documentaries needs no quotes, just because you may not like them dosen't mean that they are not real documentaries.

Quote: "stupidied"

is that a word? or used correctly? well, being only 15, i don't really remember all this political stuff in history.

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code spinneker
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 07:28
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@ the guy with the michael moore comment,
I have never seen farrenheit 911 and i still think bush is an idiot. It is all one big world domination conspiracy (and i thought i had the only one) the US is going to rule the world! @ the guy with the freedom fries comment: thats not the problem I have, my problem is that the US is stereotypical (Mind you i am being stereotypical to say that!)Oh and the fact that any canadian in the states will either get a)ridiculed or b)find a letter of hate on their windshield explaining that the "US is gonna kick their butts after their done with Iraq or something!
Honestly can't the whole world get along nicely????
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SageTech
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 07:37 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 07:40
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documentries are difined as non-biast movies about a certain topic. If you tell me Micheal Moores movies are non-biast, then you just have no idea about what his views are. (far to the left)

Conspiracy theroy? have you been taking some pills or something?

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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 07:53 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 07:54
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Quote: "Honestly can't the whole world get along nicely????"

sadly, no. i sooo wish though.

@sage tech:
well, i did take about 5 advils awhile ago, but ive held that opinion for some time. and if its wrong for micheal moore to be left-sided, then how is it ok for bush and friends to be so right-sided? seriously, if the man wants to make a documentary, which they are, then he should be able to without him being hated by a brainwashed america. (oh man im gonna attract some flames for that comment there. )

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 08:20
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Quote: "yes, and he caused a lot of controversy because he said stuff that contradicted the government and the media. and the word documentaries needs no quotes, just because you may not like them dosen't mean that they are not real documentaries."


He causes a lot of controvery because:

1. He's an arrogant prick.
2. His documentaries are full of lies.

There's a reason nobody but a small, elitist sect actually like Michael Moore. As someone (I can't recall who) said, lies from Bush should not beget lies from Moore. For specific bull in his "documentaries":

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

Quote: " documentries are difined as non-biast movies about a certain topic. "


No, they're not. Documentaries are supposed to convince you of something and have a specific agenda. They are not supposed to be full of lies, half truths, misleading editing, etc etc etc.

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 08:33 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 08:34
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I don't know much about that one-- haven't seen it and it wasn't on as controversial topic as his latest two movies. But seeing as his latest film was even more incorrect than his previous, I wouldn't be surprised if Roger & Me was his best one .

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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 08:59
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Quote: "He causes a lot of controvery because:

1. He's an arrogant prick."

opinionated

Quote: "There's a reason nobody but a small, elitist sect actually like Michael Moore."

sounds kinda mean for a mod now is it?

Quote: " As someone (I can't recall who)"

that means that anyone could have said that, important or not. even then, that's their opinion.

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Major Payn
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 09:03 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 09:04
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Michael Moor made a hell of a lot of money off of trying to degrade somebodys name and integredy, think about that for a little bit, pretty sad eh?

Guns arn't the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arn't a problem anymore.
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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 09:09 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 09:17
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but did he get money for convincing k-mart to quit selling guns/ammo?
based upon your sig, i guess you're the wrong person to say that too.

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 09:33
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Quote: "opinionated"


No crap

Quote: "sounds kinda mean for a mod now is it?"


Since when have we not been allowed to have opinions?

Quote: " but did he get money for convincing k-mart to quit selling guns/ammo?"


Yes. It's a publicity stunt required for his movie, which, of course, made him filthy rich.

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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 09:49
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Quote: "No crap"

where does this 'crap' go anyway?

Quote: "Since when have we not been allowed to have opinions?"

didn't say that. it's just that you seem to be trying to pass opinions off as fact.

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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 09:53
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noticed something here-we've strayed far from the subject of the two kids getting arrested for violent stick figure drawings.

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DrakeX
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 10:03
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Quote: "Online, at least, there's a lot of anger, a lot of prejudice to be found-- not particularly in excessive amounts, but it clumps together, so to speak, and can seem rather overwhelming at times. Example: A few days ago I fired up the Halo trial and the most popular game in the listing was Americans_Suck; getting flamed on message boards for being American (I still don't understand how people can seriously blame individuals for their government's actions though); etc."


jesus christ, thank you!

it seems like all i see on the internet is anti-american sentiment. and not necessarily big, showy displays of "i hate america" kind of sentiment, but .. little things, that just grind on you. things like "only in america." or "why'd you elect bush again!" or "freedom fries?" or "americans don't have any freedoms, they just believe they do." or "america's trying to take over the world." or "america's just in the war for oil." or "why don't you go sue someone over it?!"

or " Only in stupid ass america...wow."

yeah. great.

do you know what it feels like to be constantly degraded on any political or social issue? do you know what it feels like to live in a country that is the butt of everyone's jokes? do you know what it's like to be blamed for the rest of the world's problems?

have most of you lived here?

do most of you KNOW anyone from america?

how can you honestly make any kind of accurate portrayal of a country or its citizens from the biased, selective crap that comes across the internet or through the media?

do any of you realize that the forum members in america are not just post-generating programs? that we are actually people who have *gasp* feelings? that we might not actually like people making fun of us and making blanket statments about us TENTY FOUR F**CKING SEVEN?!

have some sense! have some decorum! be kind! by posting the biased crap that i see so often, you don't really present yourselves as being any more informed or worth any more respect than the blindly patriotic americans you hate so much!

"when it's done" means "we have no idea, we forgot to do that; we were hoping you would all forget we promised <insert exotic promise here>"
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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 10:12 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 10:14
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agreed with digitalmodr on his latest post, just that it also kinda applies to the whole world.

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 10:20
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Quote: "have some sense! have some decorum! be kind!"


Nicely stated, and a good policy .

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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 10:31
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agreed with mouse. at last someone has some decency in this 'heated debate' as i like to call it.
well, i had my fun for tonight, so fsck all yo couches, im going play starcraft.

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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 11:01
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but that's what a debate is practically.

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Wiggett
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 12:18
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Quote: "f america is such a bad country, then explain why people escape to the U.S from contries around the world."


cause america i sbusy bombing the countries that they run from, but they wont bomb their own will they.
hehe don't get me wrong im pro war.

Quote: "do you know what it feels like to be constantly degraded on any political or social issue? do you know what it feels like to live in a country that is the butt of everyone's jokes? do you know what it's like to be blamed for the rest of the world's problems?"


how many jokes have you heard about other countries, i think there isn't a country out there that hasnt been made fun of, so quit cryin like some lil pussy and get over it.

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Mattman
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 12:34
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I have to agree, why should we get flamed perosnally when its the government making the decisions. And not all of us here voted for bush, most of us can't vote

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 12:43
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Quote: "most of us can't vote
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What is that supposed to mean. We have less children in relation to adults than we have in centuries

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Mattman
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 12:48
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I meant on this board

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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 12:56
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Quote: "I wonder what the outcome would have been then?
"

nader would have won, just because they'd say, "hey, let's just vote for nader."
or the young pro-legal pot would vote for kerry. not that much in that age group for bush for some reason, from what im seeing.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 13:02
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Quote: "I have to agree, why should we get flamed perosnally when its the government making the decisions. And not all of us here voted for bush, most of us can't vote"
I don't know of anyone who did vote for Bush. I think he fixed the election. I would rather have him than Kerry. But I would rather have Daffy Duck than him.

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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 13:12 Edited at: 29th Jan 2005 13:12
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id take daffy duck any day! i mean, how often do you get to say, "Daffy duck is my president."? even if he's terrible as a president, it'd still be cool as all hell. instead of war he'd just have to say, "You're despicable!"

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