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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DBP under Windows Codename Longhorn Build 4074 - Screens inside

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OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 30th Apr 2005 03:56
It should be a database filing system, supposedly to allow more ways of searching for things.

Visit http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
Calm down dear! Its only an election...
Raven
19
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 30th Apr 2005 04:11
It's the new graphical interface system. Comprises of WinForms, Avalon (Application XML Scripting with 3D), and a few other bits'n'bobs to boot.

The SDK CTP is currently up on the Microsoft Website (250MB), and actually runs better under Microsoft Windows XP than it does under Longhorn. Creating applications using XML is pretty cool, and definately a step in the right direction.

Avalon right now has to compile to be able to use AXML, but in Longhorn there (and the final release of WinFX which will replace the .NET Framework) you'll be able to create scripts and just run them like applications.

It's a snazzy feature if they get all the kinks worked out.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Posted: 30th Apr 2005 04:47
So if thats WinFX, what happened to WinFS ?

Visit http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
Calm down dear! Its only an election...
David R
21
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Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 30th Apr 2005 19:53
WinFS is the dropped filing system etc, and assuming Raven is right (which is pretty much certain) WinFX is the new GUI

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
re faze
20
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Joined: 24th Sep 2004
Location: The shores of hell.
Posted: 1st May 2005 09:27
what language is windows written in?
Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 1st May 2005 16:23
I heard that for the first released version of longhorn, it will not contain WinFS, but plan to add it in a later professional release targeted like 2k was.

PETA - People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
Tapewormz
22
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Joined: 15th Sep 2002
Location: Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada
Posted: 3rd May 2005 03:45 Edited at: 3rd May 2005 03:50
Quote: "When are Micro$oft ever going to look at this forum? Why should they care? Why do they provide the EULA in such small print? I should be able to do what-ever the hell I like with it!"


Microsoft gets lawiers involved if you resell unopened product.

Quote: "No, the EULA doesnt allow me to post screenshots, but then again:"


So if everyone else holds a gun to their head and pulls the trigger, you will too? (we can only hope...)

Quote: "(I got LongHorn from BitTorrent, but as far as I know, its a leak, so its still legal)"


It's a closed beta. If you have it, and you weren't invited into the beta, then you are using it illegally.

There's nothing here stopping anyone from tipping off Microsoft that you're using thier beta product illegally, and posting shots of it in a forum that is responsable for the content of it's users. I'm sure Microsofts army of super-sumo-lawyers won't care about TGC and squashing it into the dirt.

Not that I care about any of the screenshot posting etc...I just love pushing buttons and trolling.

David R
21
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Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 3rd May 2005 21:54
Quote: "Not that I care about any of the screenshot posting etc...I just love pushing buttons and trolling."


Fair enough

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 3rd May 2005 23:31
Quote: "Not that I care about any of the screenshot posting etc...I just love pushing buttons and trolling."


Heh, meh! I work for the evil empire and I don't give a rats arse.
I'm just trying to point out that this was aquired illegally, and possibly shouldn't really be unlocked with the current AUP.

I mean it is setting a bad example for other users. After all technically speaking this is a warez product, something that should be being clamped down on. Not just picked and chosen what you mess with.

Quote: "what language is windows written in?"


Visual C++ 2003 for Windows XP. The full source code is available to anyone who uses Windows XP Embedded to have an OS for thier new PDA or whatever. Might seem weird given they created it before even 2002 was released, but they update the source code for each release of Visual C++.

Windows CE Beta has been converted to Visual C++/C# 2005 It's much cleaner code now too.

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Jimmy
21
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Joined: 20th Aug 2003
Location: Back in the USA
Posted: 5th May 2005 03:48
Quote: "And also yes... some of us are Microsoft Employees.
Not like I care though, not like anyone from the OS Division will care much."


Why are you still allowed to breathe?

Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 7th May 2005 06:38
meh, DBP would look nicer on Mac OS X, but it looks like that won't happen

Three Score
20
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Location: behind you
Posted: 7th May 2005 15:52
what they really need is a barebones version of windows designed mostly for programmers like have xp capabilities for programming purposes but not have all those looks u pay an extra 50 bucks or so forand have it with better emulation of dos and win 3.1 programs as well as good support for drivers for windows 95 being emulated and such
and plus include things such as the vc++ toolkit with it and various things
and have the liscense very free and maybe like to where u can have it on 2 pcs and be able to install as many times as u want

X-Patch x-patch.exe(gui):75% make.exe:5% x-patch.dll(runtime dll):0% developed on win xp home sp2
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 8th May 2005 09:04
from further inspection, I see an windows version of 'dashboard' its a apple mac idea they used in Mac OS X tiger.....hmm I smell more copyright from Microsoft naughty naughty lol....slaps Bill Gates on the wrist...
I still think DB should export mac files and should work on there too!!!!! Then I can scrap my microsoft junk

Tapewormz
22
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Location: Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada
Posted: 8th May 2005 09:47
Just aslong as you knew I was being a shat disturber for fun.

Three Score
20
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Location: behind you
Posted: 8th May 2005 12:22
hmm heres something
is longhorn going to be nt kernel or a new type
since much of it seems a bit un-nt but anyway

wouldnt they also have to add soem things to the nt kernel if they did have it nt based

i heard somewhere that 2k and xp are exactly the same kernel

re faze
20
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Joined: 24th Sep 2004
Location: The shores of hell.
Posted: 22nd May 2005 05:20
@tesio
oh i thought it was asm or something close to it.
Altedor
21
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Location: France
Posted: 22nd May 2005 06:02
Personally I think Microsoft Windows Longhorn, will be just as inefficient with the power of the PC as XP and 98SE are. The Windows Longhorn layout looks as if it will hog more graphics, CPU and RAM power than before. The only reason we need such high-spec machines with ridiculous speeds like 3.6EGhz is down to the inefficiency of Windows. Microsoft only really needs to work on making Windows more efficient, so that it will be the perfect OS. Apple, have got it right however, their Mac OS, is 80% more efficient than Windows, which is why their machines have as little as 2ghz processers which can run faster than a 3ghz on a windows PC.
A great example of the performance blaster is the game Halo which has recently been released on MAC. On PC it requires a 256MB GPU, 512DDR RAM 3.06Ghz machine to run on top spec, with macintosh it runs better on top spec with a 64MB GPU, 512SDRAM 2Ghz Machine. Another example is the internet connections between a mac and a pc on a mac your modem downloads at its top speed (eg a 1Meg modem will download at 1Mbps.) where as with windows you get download rates like 512kbps etc. The only problem with the Mac is that its software is very expensive and not many people write software for it (e.g TGC). No offence to Microsoft but Windows Longhorn will suck unless it is more efficient than XP which i personally doubt.

@ Lighting Studios
what do you think about long horns efficiency better or worse than XP?

Pyro Man

P.S. sorry about the repetition of the words efficient and efficiency, i wrote this post in a hurry and had little time to think of better vocabulary.

OS: Windows XP SP2 : CPU: Pentium 4 3.06ghz : RAM:512MB DDR : HDD: HD1: 80GB HD2: 120GB GPU: nVidia Geforce FX 5200 128 MB
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Posted: 22nd May 2005 06:48
I do hope efficiency is improved in Longhorn - its fairly respectable in XP, but does need to be much better, especially memory management (why use the swap file if you've got enough RAM free??), hardware error handling (dont crash Explorer if a damaged CD is being read, and try not to crash Windows if the hard drive goes), faster network system etc etc.

The main problem is the x86 architecture - it is way too old and inefficient nowadays, and Intel/AMD should really start designing something much better (try looking at the PPC chip or XScale for example).

Altedor
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Posted: 22nd May 2005 07:03
I think graphics efficiency will most definately improve with the PhysX chip which does all the physics and windows stuff for the GPU allowing the GPU to use its full capacity on games, but they are so expensive they are out of peoples legue maybe Intel/AMD should work on something simular to the PhysX chip, which would make Windows users happy.

Longhorn will definately improve layout wise no doubt, its the same with each windows update, although i hope they update from NT based to another based type.

Pyro Man

OS: Windows XP SP2 : CPU: Pentium 4 3.06ghz : RAM:512MB DDR : HDD: HD1: 80GB HD2: 120GB GPU: nVidia Geforce FX 5200 128 MB
Raven
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd May 2005 09:01
Quote: "Why are you still allowed to breathe?"


erm.. perhaps because unlike you, I'm actually useful.

Quote: "Personally I think Microsoft Windows Longhorn, will be just as inefficient with the power of the PC as XP and 98SE are. The Windows Longhorn layout looks as if it will hog more graphics, CPU and RAM power than before."


Actually as Nick mentions, Windows XP is a considerable improvement over previous models. Conserning Windows itself, only Explorer really takes up the ram and resources.. almost everything else on the system is streamlined to run with a small memory footprint and with as little forground processing as necessary.

Explorer unfortunately is the backbone for the Visual-End of Windows though, and it's ages is showing through more and more each day. It's the only part of Windows that really hasn't been worked on since '95, and as such what worked well for the lower specs we had back then.. now causes some very worrying issues.

But then this was the point in Codename Longhorn.

Microsoft took Windows Source and throw it away. Starting from scratch to create what on the surface looks identical to Windows XP, because it's interfaces are great.

I keep hearing 'Microsoft isn't good with UI design' and another BS, but quite frankly it's the main reason that Windows is so damn popular.. because it's easy as hell. That's the key to good UI Design, not bewildering the users with everything a single click away, but providing the interface with a clear and understandable way to use it!

Windows 5.3 Codename Longhorn, is being built with the same mentality as .NET has been.

In previous Windows incarnations the idea has been to build upon what was previously there.

Kernel32 -> WinAPI -> MFC -> MicrosoftScript

Everything was built to use something else, that used something else. While this means Microsoft programs are a fraction of the size physically to other operating systems. Often being 2-3x smaller than the Linux and Macintosh compiled Runtimes.. when you include the library after libary of information most of the time programs will take up much more memory and run slower due to running several programs at the same time.

Current DLLs are design so that sure they'll run a function, but in order to run it, your effectively running another program.

This is actually a damn awesome way to structure programs because quite often 90% of the real program code is just reuseable functionality.

What Microsoft did with .NET was take this to the next level, yet introduce a more Self-Contained Modular design.

This means that most functionality you use can be seperated from a Managed Library on runtime, meaning less memory, faster program calls, and because everything self regulates itself it is less prone to security, error, or memory issues.

While sure, this Microsoft Windows will need atleast a Pentium 3 400MHz with a 4MB 3D Accelerator, and 128MB RAM.

Quite frankly, most computers 6years ago were running that. Computers NOW would just laugh at those being the minimum specifications.

It isn't as if this is some 'new' trend either.
95 forced you to use a 486 33 w/16MB Ram w/500MB HDD
98 forced you to have a Pentium 60 w/32MB Ram w/VGA 2MB Card w/1GB HDD
XP forced you to have a Pentium 200 w/128MB Ram w/SVGA 4MB Card w/4GB HDD

The Windows platforms have never been known for thier 'amazing arcaic technology compatibility'.. they're always been about embracing future technology.

So really Microsoft's decision to have thier next generation platform seemlessly use a technology that was made common-place 6years ago, is just smart business sense. Not that the Anti-Microsoft people are going to let that stop them making this into some huge issue.

Given that Media Center *requires* a specially built PC-Config just to run, as well as a 32MB 4th Generation ATI/NVIDIA Card, 20GB HDD (min), 800MBz Processor and over 384MB RAM, yet no-one batted an eyelid about those requirements. I don't see what the fuss is about.

Simple fact of the matter is.. if you can run any of the current games, then you can run Windows Codename Longhorn; if you don't play games then chances are you won't upgrade anyways.

Longhorn doesn't offer anything new, in-fact ALL of the technology except for the core stuff is being made available for Windows XP right now. (to be honest it currently all runs better on XP atm)

At the end of the day, all I can see are a bunch of whiners over an Operating System not due out for atleast 12months.

Fireburst
22
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 22nd May 2005 09:31
You can now download the Avalon CTP from Microsoft

http://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/understanding/pillars/avalon/default.aspx

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is.

P4 2.53 Ghz-160 Gig HD-GeForceFX5900XT 128MB - 512 DDR - WinXP home
Altedor
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Location: France
Posted: 26th May 2005 05:04
soz trying to get my signature to work

OS: Windows XP SP2 : CPU: Pentium 4 3.06ghz : RAM:512MB DDR : HDD: HD1: 80GB HD2: 120GB GPU: nVidia Geforce FX 5200 128 MB
IanG
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Posted: 26th May 2005 05:09
please reduce the size of your sig picture

Used to be Phoenix_insane registered in september 2003 despite what the date says to the left <--
PC - amd athlon 2.0ghz, 512mb, GeForce FX 5200 128mb, 200gb, xp pro sp2
SageTech
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Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 26th May 2005 05:26
All longhorn looks like is a new gui for xp. What are the actual features that are new?

Sagetech forums currently down
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Posted: 26th May 2005 06:13
More security, the GDI is new etc etc.

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