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Geek Culture / So you think your a Hot Shot Programmer?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 01:16
Do you know C/C++?
Do you think you're a Hot Shot Programmer upto a challenge?
If so then by all means read on.

Recently there was a post about getting 2 Controllers into DarkBasic Professional ... now although this isn't possible would anyone here like to have a go at helping me to atleast give DarkBasic a Standard Controller?

I'm working on some information right now to show everyone, just trawling through USB 1.1/2.0 Standards as well as Serial Data aspect programming

Probably Saturday perhaps Monday i'll be getting an N64 Pad along with a USB cable, MemPak & Standard N64 Rumble Pack and seeing about getting it to work directly with the PC USB slot - and by working i don't just mean simple buttons working, i mean I/O working with the ability to use the RumblePak and MemPak's

It'll probably be using HID interface and connecting upto DarkBasic Pro and Standard that way with an extension DLL for passing Data from an to the Memory Pak.

Hopefully with another dedicated user i'm sure we can get a USB version working, which if we can would put as 1 step closer to having something standard for controlling our games (scary thought eh?)

Well no doubt we'll know by most likely next Friday if it is really possible
As i said i'll post the information up in a little while once i get my head around USB and HID use
Anata aru kowagaru no watashi! http://members.lycos.co.uk/timesaga/darkbasic/gir.gif[/img]
hexGEAR
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 01:35
wow, now that's just plain hardcore!!!!! wayyyyy outta my range, would have loved to help though! good luck anyways, your gonna need it!

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 02:52
oki if i understand the documents correctly

Pin 1 = Variable Current
Pin 2 = Bit Stream1
Pin 3 = Bit Stream2
Pin 4 = Ground

right? (hopefully someone knows)

working from this assumption that means Pin 2 will be Bit Stream and Pin 3 won't be used

Checking over the HID device needs it says the streams are to be set 7.5mils apart right? with a 20bar space every 3rd alternative and 50 on the 3rd alternative of those.

making
20 - 7.5 - 7. 5 - 7.5 - 20 - 7.5 - 7.5 - 7.5 - 50

if anyone has the faintest clue what a mil is i'm open to hear it
right now i'm going to work on the assumption that it is all working to the same speed (cause it's gonna be a bitch to setup a speed tranfer box as i havn't a clue where to start )

well taking this into mind i know that the pad works to a 42Bit 16.6ms / 60hz bit routine frequency (still with me?) well this is basically standard Serial Speed, so hopefully the USB should accept this ...

Each Bit is a 0.4ms value

(TriState Logic Circuit)
Zero = 0.3ms @ 0v && 0.1ms @ 3.3v
One = 0.1ms @ 0v && 0.3ms @ 3.3v

0 - 15Bit = Button Value
16Bit - 23Bit = X Axis
24Bit - 32Bit = Y Axis

Bit
0 = A
1 = B
2 = Z
3 = Start
4 = D-Pad Up
5 = D-Pad Down
6 = D-Pad Right
7 = Start + Left + Right
9 = Reserved
10 = Left
11 = Right
12 = C Up
13 = C Down
14 = C Left
15 = C Right

the Axis are Short/Interger Values -128 -> 0 <- +128
X reads from Left to Right
Y reads from Top to Bottom

Hopefully this is all making sense hehee
now as you can tell 0.4 * 32 + (0.5 * 3) = 14.2 and i said that each command structure is 16ms long
which leaves us with another 7/8bit (taking into account that there is a final 0.5 to denote the end )

this is where the RumblePak comes into play, and i believe that you send the Data back in the same style and the RumblePak mimics this just theory until i crack open my Pak to find out (and lookup the chips online)

Are you thoughrly confused yet?
Well this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I mean shouldn't be too difficult to get it to interact with the computer as soon as we can get the information input as it is every 16.6ms it sends ALL the information required shouldn't be too difficult.

I think no doubt the MemPak works in the same format, 8bit bytes sliced up with a ns longer zero value
output 8 - 8 - 8 input 8 format

the initial send sequence is also 9 bit (7 zeros amd 2 ones)
If it works then should send back data almost immediately along the guidelines above
this must prelude all the other data to make sure its there

i'm gonna get on checking out some other things in a min but i think this is possible to do with someone who knows thier HID and DirectPlay Code

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Rob K
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 02:57
So ... let me get this straight - the aim is to be able to use N64 controllers with DB?

USB might be a bit tricky - by nature the N64 pad's use the equivilent of PS/2 ports (certainly very similar at least) as I am sure you know. Is the plug n' play aspect of USB only to do with the software driving the hardware or does the hardware have to be designed for such use in the first place?

Still - the pins on the N64 controller are so large that one could perhaps set up a simple electronic circuit to handle the conversion?

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 03:36
i can resolder my own connection wire (which is the plan) directly onto the board ... and perhaps using a Serial Port or Gameport might be more favourable.

But i know connection through a USB port is possible (as this is how my current connection made 3rd party which also handles PS1/PS2 controllers) is connected.

I think the problem won't be the connection as i think the whole thing is working based on standard Logic TriState Bit Stream - as the USB appears to do the same, but to a different degree ... i'm not sure but should - its the drivers i'm work worried about developing

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Puffy
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 05:29
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH YOU THINK YOU CAN MAKE DRIVERS IN C/C++ THAT WORK WELL... im j/k raven its very possible but i would suggest you either use ASM or PureBasic... o_O far faster than c++... and my soldering extent is a lil curciut board i was forced to make with 4 diode capasitors and 1 blue capasitor and a switch conneting to a motor... i was putting together my van de gram electro static gnerator ^_^...

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Puffy
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 05:30
(oh yes if you want ill help)

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 05:51
good new just cracked open my N64 Pad... isn't soldered into the board, but is on a 4pin connector (one unused)
So i've nicked one from an old keyboard that i hope was broken before hand (cause it definately is now ) and attacked a very snazzy USB cable

looks like i can start early - and the cool thing is i can just replace the N64 lead once i'm done mwhahahaa

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 07:07
didn't want to ruin the only controller i currently have so the plan still really is getting one asap ... shops open in 4hours ack i can't wait that long

well i got bored out of my head whilst trying to follow a few circuits in the RumblePak, well i decided to see how well i understood the lil sucker - ripped apart a decrepid old Playstation DualShock pad ... stole the Weighted Motors, lodged them each in (testing with a 1.5v battery for position that doesn't stick) and put in the electronics for the rumble within the space between the addon area and the actual board ... did some very creative rewiring

Tested it on the N64 - now i have battery free and pretty awesome Rumble Features ... best thing of all i can actually add a third pack.

You've not played Goldeneye until you've played it with THREE RumblePaks, 2 under each hand and a Third up top.
God the rumble effect LITERALLY is throwing my hands about.

I'm thniking if i can get this to read come Next friday i'm definatly gonna be thinking of adding extended rumble feature support for edited controllers - so that we can have LEFT -> RIGHT Rumble Features

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
indi
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 07:48
believe it or not I studied robotics a long time ago and Im fully capable of running an (asea) LArge 8foot arm used in many factory floors to do all sorts of stuff from welding holding bolting etc..

anyway if u build yourself a small led tester board you could access this C++ code we did ages ago.



indi
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 08:33
oops C lol i always ad the ++ out of habit

Puffy
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 08:37
o_O indi could you email me info on that... O_O im trying to build a hologram... i was going to use asm to control the led's but i guess c would work too...

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indi
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 08:42
theres tonnes of how to make a led tester on the net for what ever port u want to use.

the peices required for most of this costs about $20 if u want a groovy little box and a nice long cord etc.

Any electronics store will have all the peices seprately or in a little how to start with electronics.

we have a guy here called dicksmith who made a tonne of these little how to build a radio transmitter etc.


we used borland 3 back then so there may be some redundant or quirky lines.

the code above will work fine on the parellel port.

its up to you to build the led tester.

MrTAToad
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 13:41
Why not use DirectInput, like I did with my Mapper DLL - then you can have up to 16 controllers. Cant remember if 16 is my limit or DI.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 16:57
Raven, i did an experiment once over the com ports on my PC to see who my organiser shared data with the PC, i was thinking maybe this could help you some (assuing you can split the wires).

Could you not set up a monitor on your PC, split the wires then see what you get back while playing a game.

It will not help with the saving of a game, but will with the rumble features casue as i understand it only a 'signal' is to the controller saying RUMBLE NOW!

well, this was probably no help, but hey thats what i am here for.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 16:58
well thats was not clear.

Monitor:

Split the cable going to N64. Put one in N64 and one in PC (serial would probably be easier) and set up a monitor/recorder on your PC.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
IanM
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 18:47
I was under the impression that USB was not just a serial interface, but uses a communications protocol to identify and communicate with devices, and so needs intelligence in the peripheral.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 21:23
well i ripped open an old mousie to find out and i dunno doesn't appear to be setup any different, there is an extra chip - but i'm guessing thats to setup everything into the Serialised Bit Stream.

I mean if you look at a USB setup (and i spent ALOT of last nite reading PDFs about it) it is a 4 Connection setup for USB 1.0 and 8 for USB 2.0

this means SOME form of serialisation is going on because it is capable of handling more data than a Standard Serial Connection with a 9pin/15pin connection.

Now i'm aware to get the data needed ... grabbed one of my dads old Ossilators from the Loft (still worked to which surprised me) which is how i got the data above.

Found out the the Rumble is setup into a 6groups of 4bit

and number of 1's dictact the power of the rumble

0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 would be no rumble
1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 would be max rumble

so for each 60hz you'd send a signal like such and it'd cause the rumble effect - which i've determined is basically 1x per loop at 30fps

i'll see what else i can grab ahold of an fry my brain over this - but i'm hopeing that i can simply take the data and use it straight without any fancy thing converting it.

Else i'll just snip off that wire and use a Com Port
Those i know work on the same frequency

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 22:27
Personally I would be more inclined to do it over a com port, and the rumble function would be easy enough to write a converter from DBcode to the output result on a controller. However I am not convinced the save game function would work easily if at all - But why would anyone want to? Other than pure curiosity, surely saving files on HDD / CD / Floppy when playing on a PC is more viable / flexible / quicker?

A standard controller for DB is a good idea, but having a collection of over 20 joysticks and pads collected over the years, including most standard types, gravis, sidewinder and everything inbetween, the compatibility with DB is close to identical. A quick calibration the first time u use a controller is all thats neede in game

I love the idea of using a N64 Pad for PC gaming tho, especially as I run Emu'd 64 games at a much better resolution / framerate on my pc anyway

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 22:47
Oki just been looking over the actual technical drawings and specs of USB

i'm more confident now about it working ... got some more bedtime reading here to do before i actually jump in with the soldering iron and code - but i'm pretty confident i can do within a week.

On the note of using HDD/CD/FD for saving games, it would be more flexiable for people to do that - however also means that saving must be designed specifically.

I won't be taking away that feaeture for developers who still want to develop thier own saves - however the point will mostly be seeing if it is possible
That aside, if it is possible i will be developing functions similar to the NET GAME MESSAGE things where you create a MEMBLOCK of 128bytes or less and then use the function like:

return = GET MEMPAK INFO(dwMemblock)
return = GET MEMPAK SIZE()
SAVE MEMPAK(dwMemblock,dwPosition)
LOAD MEMPAK(dwMemblock,dwPosition)

and perhaps 128kb isn't large enough for everyone and thats fair enough they can either use 2 blocks, or 4 or they can use the HDD

not a case of forcing anyone to use anything here - this is more of a pet project than something that will really be perfectly suited, because how often have you seen Nintendo allow people to use thier technology?
Personally i love the challenge and if nothing else i can buy N64 Pads from Nintendo, edit then up by hand and resell for Cost (Inc P&P) no biggie, but gives us a better setup for use.

just found what gives me something good to smile about :0

Signal Bits are 6Mhz or 166.7ns this means its running at the same speed one raw 1.1 transfer (without a connection box) so this means the data is presise as long as we can read the incomming bits in the right time index

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 23:07
Cool! I have to say this is Really interesting Raven! Whilst my C++ is nowhere near good enough to help u on that level I'm very interested in the development of this, its kinda facinating. .. Ilove "boring" tech-specs

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 23:33
lmao... my C++ is probably not actually upto this - but i'm gonna try my best
at the very least is gonne be alot of fun

just in case peeps need USB info then checkout the site [url=htt://www.usb.org]USB.org[/url] there are alot of 4-5Mb PDFs with some good information on the format.

from what i understand i can use
pin 1 Power - 3 Data Low - 4 Ground
for all our needs with Raw data upto 1.5Mbit/sec
and values v0.0 -> v4.5 as we only need v3.3 which actually is the most stable powerzone - this will work quite nicely.

i'm really getting into this now ... god all i need now is my mates from the office about and it'd be just like being back at work (or atleast some gorgeous lass's )

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 02:24
Well the Raw Transfer version won't work
which is a pitty, but not a total waste of time ...
however i cracked open one of my USB mice, and checked out the chip inside ... followed a lead on the chip type and it lead to a company called Cypress.

So looks like i'm gonna be working with ASM this well to reprogramm the timings within the chip and give back all the data in USB Device format

i'll have the PCB up of my current test design soon, which should work as long as i've followed the general designs right. Gonna need to grab a Chip Programmer, so i'll see what i can do about that - does look like i'll be able to make this with minimal fuss thou

keep everyone posted on the progress

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Puffy
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Posted: 7th Feb 2003 16:41
^_^ See I was right... Can't make a decent driver without going after some ASM!

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Feb 2003 18:51
i never said i shouldn't
i simply don't understand why you wanted me to use PureBasic over C++ ... my current PCB is working quite nicely i'll have to show it when i have the time to draw it, including the chip number.

Finished a basic Driver which does most things ... still working on the Rumble & Mempak features which are the main reason for doing this. Tried the CY763001A chip with several code setup, found a veru reliable one for the mempak just a case of coding it - which looks like its gonna be a bitch cause alot of interactions needed by C++

got the setup working to 6mhz so i can predict the timing precisely with a 32-Bit float
can only use a single button at a time right now though, so need to work on it some more when i have time.
Perhaps later i'll send you the asm you can look over it puffy - its kinda messy though, used to coding for shaders rather than periphirals so alot of new terrain for accessing ports

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Daz
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Posted: 7th Feb 2003 19:35
Sounds good, Raven (Oh, masterful with 1337 programming skillz which I'll never have). So, if you and your GR8 team accomplish this, it will be up for sale? And you'll do a plug-in for some new commands especially for it?

Sorry if that sounds stoopid, but me all new to big strange world of programming and what-not.

Chou.

DarkBASIC Professional is the best programming utility.
8/10 Housewives agree!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Feb 2003 04:04
Well there are others on the market already which are quite cheap... however this should be the first controller i'll be making which is specifically designed to utilise memory packs and rumble features rather than simply adapt the controller

Playstation, Playstation2, N64 & GameCube Controllers to USB

now thats what is currently on the market so hardly as if i'm doing anything novel persay - and £10 for the adapter and £10 for the controller isn't bad

however to answer the question directly, once i'm done i will be selling the controllers for around £10/15@each
so really won't be making much of a profit if any.

as for good programming skills, thats hardly the case because most of this is in assembly which is a very logical language - you literally code to a flow dialogue, so once you know the few keywords its pretty simple.

once i have an adapter which is working near-if not perfectly, then the full schematics are to be placed up including the full code ... its upto you guys what you'll prefer me to make.

Would you rather a usb version of the N64 controller, or would you prefer and adapter for the N64 controller?
would also be cool to see peoples designs, because for a pet project using N64 technology is cool - but commercially Big-N will sue my ass to the wall (unless i could get talks going about the use of the hardware) ... so really looking at designing a controller you'd want as a standard

well have fun all

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Puffy
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Posted: 8th Feb 2003 08:45
Hey Raven I would love to see a picture of this controller O_O so far you've told me its taken a PS controller an N64 controller and now a USB mouse... ^_^ sounds like it would look interesting... o_O and with 2 rumble packs =P...

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Puffy
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Posted: 8th Feb 2003 08:46
OH! I would love to see your assembly...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Feb 2003 10:29
Well what i've done is taken the Weighted Motors from my Playstation DualShock pad which has like 3 buttons kaput on it (Tekken is to blame ) ... grabbed some silly putty and basically place them in either side of the handle, setup a small circuit setup that for the violent Rumbles it uses the right (larger one) and for the less violent Rumbles it uses the left ( smaller one) based on what i'd grabbed from when i tested the rumble features. Thats using a Motorola 68000 (only chip i had laying about i knew howto code )

thats connected to the standard rumblepak circuit board which is just above the little rumbler ... i then have that solder'd directly onto the connections so i can have a mempak in there. To avoid the conflicts i've setup the 68k to detect if the mempak is drawing power from its exclusive components so basically when you have the mempak in you can't use the rumble, a small trade off but not a biggie.

i've taken a USB mouse connection and a USB wire, slice and diced so that now the N64 controller has a USB type B board connector from an old USB board that never worked(which is just being used as a connector) ... took the N64 lead and attached a Type B connector to the end so i can still use the N64 pad as an N64 pad

i then using the mouse USB wire attached it raw to the PCB board which contains the CY763001A chip set at 6mhz, using the D- for the output data ... which also has a Type B connector to connect to the controller and a Type A connector to attach to the Motherboard

it all looks a little convoluted, and i've destroyed a few useless periphirals to achieve this ... but once i've got everything nice then i can simply purchase the nessary part from Maplin or Tandy

i'll see about emailing the assembly later cause you might be able to improve it

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Puffy
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Posted: 8th Feb 2003 21:24
^_^ thx... O_O if you have a digital camera send a picture of it also...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Feb 2003 22:10
aww no digicam
just this crappy WebCam Go Plus thingie, but i'll see what i can do - 640x480 at a distance seems kinda oki

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Puffy
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 01:26
remember its arthPuff@PuffInteractive.com">DarthPuff@PuffInteractive.com =)

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Puffy
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 01:27
-_- I'll never get used to those gawd fangled buttons...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 07:42
hehee... i think you have to put mailto: ahead of it
but i think Rich has been tinkering again cause most of yesterday half the buttons didn't show and they've been working less and less recently.
i think he said was gonna get on it soon.

as for you get on MSN you lazy bum i'll give you over that

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 17:51
Sorry no its [ email ] [ /email ]

arthPuff@PuffInteractive.com">DarthPuff@PuffInteractive.com

Found that out by accident after I started usin Mozilla and tags stopped workin

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
samjones@kangaroo2.com - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
Puffy
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Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 9th Feb 2003 21:55
o_O but when you push the button it says [mail][/mail]... I don't get it...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
Kangaroo2
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 26th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 00:57
I know, I think it must be a weird programming oversite in the Javascipt?

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
samjones@kangaroo2.com - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 01:04
the thing is the buttons used to work fine, i think Rich has just tinkered with parts and forgotten what he's done
like a lil edit here a lil edit there ... poof something cool works, something else gets messed up.

i think thats called the Microsoft Catch

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Bunni
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 9th Feb 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 01:29
Maybe I could do the Javascript for him Hehee

Raven I love N64 Games and controller, Mario Kart and 64 are my favourites. Sam gave me his old one a year ago and I still play it!

Yes, a GIRL who can really program! Not bad looking too hehee
Martyn Pittuck
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 09:42
Buttons work fine for me in IE.

In mozilla the problem is that is sent the wrong istructions to Rich, so the script don't work properly

I have emailed him back, but Rich is very busy at the moment...

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 11:45
ya right now has the daunting task of rewriting the whole manual and tutorials
wonder if he can finish before patch4 .. hmm lol

have the controller working now, even with the data saving - with upto 32kb blocks
kinda amazing i started to code it before i knew it i'd extended the driver 800lines - thankfully there wasn't much to debug, kinda begining to love the layout of Assembly, the wording sucks - but the layout is sweet.

i'll see about uploading the driver and the circuit board later tonite for anyone who wants to make this themselves

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 13:02
Martyn - I fixed 'em all, they all work now (so mail, or email, url or href, etc).

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Puffy
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 19:34
O_O ackems..

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
Kangaroo2
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 11th Feb 2003 12:12
Umm sorry but in Mozilla they don't... but the page skip buttons r most welcome

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
samjones@kangaroo2.com - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me

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